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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 420

post #12571 of 15139
When using different model subs or the same subs with different filter settings, differences with frequency dependent phase can cause additional cancellation problems. I was running into this until I noticed that I didn't have the subs set consistently. In some cases, different models can be configured to have matching phase properties. That REW simulator won't account for this.

Also, if the subs are significantly different distances from you, I found that independently time aligning them was really important.

Either of these could ruin the sound. Always good to measure.
post #12572 of 15139
Okay so I added the lv12r. Its hard to describe exactly what the differences are.. I feel a little more output but to my ears it would better be described as a fuller sound.

On the negative side I feel like I may have added a sliver to the "boominess" to the sound.

I'll continue to tinker and let u guys know what I come up with..
post #12573 of 15139
I keep having this fantasy that Dave will make some 1000 watt 18s and I'll want those instead of 2 more fv15hps.

Obviously if I just wanted output I could just buy something like caps or subs however I really am partial to the sound of a servo driven rythmimk. And that's not to say I wouldn't love a cap as much but I. Never heard one and hey if it aint broke don't fix it. Love my rythmiks
post #12574 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post

On the negative side I feel like I may have added a sliver to the "boominess" to the sound.
Do you mean 1 note is emphasized? If so, you may need to EQ it flat.
post #12575 of 15139
When running yapo on fv15hp I'm supposed to use 14hz 1 port and... high or low damping...? Can't remember
post #12576 of 15139
Low damping for Home Theater with the limiter on.

(do you have REW?)

And when available, you just may have to add a third FV15HP so you won't have to sell everything and start buying S2s.

(if you watch your movies with normal people, they'll be so amazed, you won't feel the need to upgrade)

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 12/19/13 at 4:36pm
post #12577 of 15139
So during yapo my brand new fv15hp appeared to blow idk
Its making a gurgling sound when it hits and when I tap the cone lightly it flops back and fourth while the other sub is nice and tight.

This sucks so bad. Hopefully I can get ahold of Brian asap frown.gif
post #12578 of 15139
Oh, I'm no expert but that sounds bad. Sorry to hear that!
post #12579 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie Isaac View Post

Oh, I'm no expert but that sounds bad. Sorry to hear that!

Let's see what newc33 posted: "Its making a gurgling sound when it hits...."

I have to agree with Ozzie, that can't be good. frown.gif
post #12580 of 15139
Got ahold of Brian. He seems stumped.. but the good news is he is gonna send me another driver right away. Pretty darn good customer service
post #12581 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post

Got ahold of Brian. He seems stumped.. but the good news is he is gonna send me another driver right away. Pretty darn good customer service

Service like that is why I was willing to risk $1400 on a sub I could never hear first. Glad to see Brian and Rythmik are taking care of this so quickly. Let us know how it goes.
post #12582 of 15139
Brian couldnt fit 2 subs in his car for this weekends delivery, so i went and picked them up myself. Cant experiment tonight, will tomorrow, but heres both in piano black.

Its the angle, but they seem to dwarf my 60 inch.
post #12583 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie Isaac View Post

Service like that is why I was willing to risk $1400 on a sub I could never hear first. Glad to see Brian and Rythmik are taking care of this so quickly. Let us know how it goes.
+1. My second sub I received about a few weeks ago has a different grille then the one I got last year. It is less transparent. I called Brian and he explained that the older more transparent one has more defective rate and immediately offered to send me the new grille so that they match. I had my friend stop by and picked it up. When my friend showed up and gave me the grille, It was boxed up with foam and bubble wrap. I was just expecting the grille but....it explains Brian cares for his products and customers. 10 thumbs up smile.gif
post #12584 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxion View Post

Brian couldnt fit 2 subs in his car for this weekends delivery, so i went and picked them up myself. Cant experiment tonight, will tomorrow, but heres both in piano black.

Its the angle, but they seem to dwarf my 60 inch.
NICE!!! biggrin.gif
post #12585 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxion View Post

Its the angle, but they seem to dwarf my 60 inch.

I think that's a very good excuse to march right down to Costco and pickup an 80" flat screen. That'll show those mean FV15HPs to show up your 60" screen.
post #12586 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I think that's a very good excuse to march right down to Costco and pickup an 80" flat screen. That'll show those mean FV15HPs to show up your 60" screen.
Lol ya, too bad i have a zt60 and nothing can touch its PQ anywhere near its price.
post #12587 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxion View Post

Lol ya, too bad i have a zt60 and nothing can touch its PQ anywhere near its price.

Love my Pannys for sure. I would rather have that set then any other.
post #12588 of 15139
You're saying size doesn't matter in a subwoofer thread?
post #12589 of 15139
Well, if i remember right brians not doing a 18 because of sacrifices for SQ
post #12590 of 15139
And there's no FV25HP in the works because it would be just too darn big. frown.gif
post #12591 of 15139
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxion View Post

Well, if i remember right brians not doing a 18 because of sacrifices for SQ

 

hahahaha---- tell that to JTR

post #12592 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by sexion 8 View Post


hahahaha---- tell that to JTR
Im no engineer, let them hash it out. I like my rythmiks.
post #12593 of 15139
I finally got to seriously test the F15HP. Oh man, it seriously blows my (one) Klipsch RW-12D out of the water! I put on Hot Fuzz and was surprised how much Bass was in that movie. I eventually had to turn the sub down because I could feel the vibrations from the couch; I was worried about shaking that corner of the apartment and worsening structural damage. I was really amazed at how quick it can go from loud to silence. I love the added impact to movies. The shotgun blasts just have so much more visceral impact.

I was so distracted by watching the cone move. That's a show entirely in itself. biggrin.gif
post #12594 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post

When using different model subs or the same subs with different filter settings, differences with frequency dependent phase can cause additional cancellation problems. I was running into this until I noticed that I didn't have the subs set consistently. In some cases, different models can be configured to have matching phase properties. That REW simulator won't account for this.

It is indeed very important for low bass phase consistency. If someone has to mix different types of subs, check out if there is a way to make them as phase consistent as possible towards the bottom end. Most ported subs have 6th order roll-off (4th order from ported configuration itself and second order or 3rd order from rumble filter) while most sealed sub has 4 order roll-off. However, our sealed sub without the rumble filter turn on is more like between 2nd order and 3rd order. The rumble filter in our sealed sub adds a 3rd order. So to mix our ported sub with our sealed sub, we need to turn on rumble filter on the sealed sub and uses the lowest phase delay ported subs of ours which is FV15 or FV15HP in one port mode.
Quote:

Also, if the subs are significantly different distances from you, I found that independently time aligning them was really important.

Either of these could ruin the sound. Always good to measure.

On the other hand, this distance difference affects the mid bass rather than the low bass. To enable distance adjustment, one can use line-in (instead of lfe in). You need to set the sub distance in AVR to be the furthest sub. Then for each of the remaining subs , we need to use the delay adjustment knob on the plate amp to make its sound arrive later. So set its delay knob equals the distance difference(in ft) divided by 1.1. That is the amount of delay we need in milli-second.

So the above two adjustments are completely orthogonal. Don't try to use distance adjustment to fix the phase difference resulted from bass roll-off of different order. It simply won't work.

In short, if one pays attention to both of the above, he will have the low bass and mid bass covered for phase consistency (and then intrapolate to in between) .
post #12595 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

It is indeed very important for low bass phase consistency. If someone has to mix different types of subs, check out if there is a way to make them as phase consistent as possible towards the bottom end. Most ported subs have 6th order roll-off (4th order from ported configuration itself and second order or 3rd order from rumble filter) while most sealed sub has 4 order roll-off. However, our sealed sub without the rumble filter turn on is more like between 2nd order and 3rd order. The rumble filter in our sealed sub adds a 3rd order. So to mix our ported sub with our sealed sub, we need to turn on rumble filter on the sealed sub and uses the lowest phase delay ported subs of ours which is FV15 or FV15HP in one port mode.
On the other hand, this distance difference affects the mid bass rather than the low bass. To enable distance adjustment, one can use line-in (instead of lfe in). You need to set the sub distance in AVR to be the furthest sub. Then for each of the remaining subs , we need to use the delay adjustment knob on the plate amp to make its sound arrive later. So set its delay knob equals the distance difference(in ft) divided by 1.1. That is the amount of delay we need in milli-second.

So the above two adjustments are completely orthogonal. Don't try to use distance adjustment to fix the phase difference resulted from bass roll-off of different order. It simply won't work.

In short, if one pays attention to both of the above, he will have the low bass and mid bass covered for phase consistency (and then intrapolate to in between) .
Am I correct in assuming that the phase dial only affects phase in the low-pass crossover region, and unlike an AVR delay which affects phase for all frequencies?

So, to match phase for all frequencies, you can match phase on the high-pass filters (frequency, dampening, rumble), use the LFE input (disabling the phase knob), and use a receiver with multiple sub outs or external DSP to set the delay according to distance for each sub.

Trying to use the phase knob to match phase for all frequencies sounds really tricky, unless the phase knob happens to be implemented as a delay. Perhaps it could be done with a lot of experimenting and measuring.

(single sub setups are more straightforward)
Edited by rcohen - 12/22/13 at 4:32pm
post #12596 of 15139
Brian, Can you comment on the availability of the FV15HPs, is it going to be at the end January or at the end of Q1 2004 which I have read in two separate posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

It is indeed very important for low bass phase consistency. If someone has to mix different types of subs, check out if there is a way to make them as phase consistent as possible towards the bottom end. Most ported subs have 6th order roll-off (4th order from ported configuration itself and second order or 3rd order from rumble filter) while most sealed sub has 4 order roll-off. However, our sealed sub without the rumble filter turn on is more like between 2nd order and 3rd order. The rumble filter in our sealed sub adds a 3rd order. So to mix our ported sub with our sealed sub, we need to turn on rumble filter on the sealed sub and uses the lowest phase delay ported subs of ours which is FV15 or FV15HP in one port mode.
On the other hand, this distance difference affects the mid bass rather than the low bass. To enable distance adjustment, one can use line-in (instead of lfe in). You need to set the sub distance in AVR to be the furthest sub. Then for each of the remaining subs , we need to use the delay adjustment knob on the plate amp to make its sound arrive later. So set its delay knob equals the distance difference(in ft) divided by 1.1. That is the amount of delay we need in milli-second.

So the above two adjustments are completely orthogonal. Don't try to use distance adjustment to fix the phase difference resulted from bass roll-off of different order. It simply won't work.

In short, if one pays attention to both of the above, he will have the low bass and mid bass covered for phase consistency (and then intrapolate to in between) .
post #12597 of 15139
Based on all Rythmik has posted, my understanding, the end of Q1 2014.
post #12598 of 15139
When I spoke with Brian last Thursday he was talking the end of January confused.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Based on all Rythmik has posted, my understanding, the end of Q1 2014.
post #12599 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmedreda View Post

When I spoke with Brian last Thursday he was talking the end of January confused.gif

Not challenging anything you're posting as Enrico commented, more than likely, the end of March. Either which way, I don't envy anybody having to wait that long but in my opinion, they're worth the wait and there's no reason to believe that Rythmik didn't get good delivery news.

-
post #12600 of 15139
When hooking up the driver to my fv15hp does the the thicker wires go to driver coil or servo coil? Gonna guess the thicker ones go to the driver
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