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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 446

post #13351 of 15159
I posted the following in the REW thread but want to post it here as well.
I just want to give my opinion after following the Audyssey subs distances tweak as I was finally able to watch a couple movies. I did two tweaks/changes to my system: 1. Move one sub to right back room corner and leave the other one upfront toward the center of room instead of having both upfront by my main. 2. Follow the Audyssey subs distance tweak with great success. My room now is energized/pressurized with lots of great bass that cannot be localized and I now do have a lot more of the tactile feeling. Before, I can tell that my bass was front heavy. I really do enjoy my system much more than I ever had. I truly believe this great result is from both of my subs placement changes and the distances tweak, and perhaps also with the close mics Audyssey cal patterns (within 3" from MLP). For the first time I can say that I have graphs to back my statement up smile.gif. Dialogue is easy to hear without having to bump it up 2-3db like before. Front three blends so much nicer with my subs now; perhaps the reason for unlocalized bass regardless of having one sub kind of nearfield (as compared to before). I was afraid of being able to locate the sub near me, but I swear I could not (I was even looking at it from my LP). I usually listen at -10 MV but had to reduce to -15 as it was loud with strong deep bass coming from everywhere in my ~2600 ft^3 seal room. One more thing: Dual FV15hps ROCKs down to 10hz in my room with AUTHORITY - absolutely cannot be happier. smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif. And yes I listened to dual Captivators, 8 18" SI seal (at two different places), and three Triaxes at four different occasions so I kind of know how my dual stands up against the big boys.

Before:


After:




All graphs are unsmooth except where noted.

Subs only. Pink: before, Blue: after


1/6 smoothing of the above: Red: before, Green: after


Center and subs. Red: before tweak, Green: after tweak, Dark gray: subs only

Edited by Cowboys - 1/22/14 at 2:54pm
post #13352 of 15159
By the way, where is rcohen lately?
post #13353 of 15159
That 1/6 graph is ridiculous haha
post #13354 of 15159
^^ Thanks. Almost like a slightly inclined ruler smile.gif
post #13355 of 15159
And of course......whine......I want one of those. tongue.gif

(today, with the new blu-ray player installed, I will play some more)

Trying to keep up with the Jones' is not all bad as doing so forces us to improve ourselves, even when we don't want to.

...biggrin.gif
post #13356 of 15159
^^ The Jones'?
post #13357 of 15159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

^^ The Jones'?
He's possessive of them. wink.gif
post #13358 of 15159
Yeah. The quality of your graph, makes you the proverbial "Jones".) tongue.gif

(my neighbor turned out to be a toad......I don't try to keep up with toads)

...tongue.gif
post #13359 of 15159
^^ I see. I get it smile.gif
post #13360 of 15159
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

He's possessive of them. wink.gif

Jones'

(ahhhh, kr@p!)

...tongue.gif
post #13361 of 15159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

^^ Thanks. Almost like a slightly inclined ruler smile.gif

 

Looks good.  What do you have the sub amp settings at??

post #13362 of 15159
^^ 14/hi 1 port peq off, volume/gain is 13 ticks from min for each sub.
post #13363 of 15159
Cowboys, I did what you suggested, backing further out of the menu and it worked great but I wasn't able to use the distance setting to improve the graph. At this point, this seems to be the best I can get with two subwoofers and no room treatments.

No Smoothing Applied



One Sixth Smoothing Applied



Now it's time to enjoy the new blu-ray player. Tonight, U-571 is on deck.

...biggrin.gif
post #13364 of 15159
Bee, I know you said it's the best you can get now but at some point, you need to get rid of those dips at about 52, 72 and 90. I know they are narrow but being always trying to squeeze in the last bit of good and I am sure you are too, can you move one sub at the time by a few inches or foot to see what it does to those dips that could contribute to the mid bass chest slam.
post #13365 of 15159
This post is piggybacking on a discussion of 8" servo subs on the GR-Research forum on Audio Circle. The discussion revolved around an 8" servo sub under development with GR-Research having 16 ohm versions of the drivers for use in open baffle designs and Rythmik having 4 and 8 ohm versions for use in sealed or ported designs.

I am looking to build a small sub for my office desktop system. While I want a sub that will play low, high spl is not necessary since the sub will only be 3-4 ft from me. The main purpose of the system is background music while I am working.

Back in December, Brian was testing the new amp in a two driver setup. What is the current status of these subs?

Mike
post #13366 of 15159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

Bee, I know you said it's the best you can get now but at some point, you need to get rid of those dips at about 52, 72 and 90. I know they are narrow but being always trying to squeeze in the last bit of good and I am sure you are too, can you move one sub at the time by a few inches or foot to see what it does to those dips that could contribute to the mid bass chest slam.

No can do. I've done my best. I've given it my all. I replaced the subwoofer drivers and radiators. I bought an additional sub. I installed REW. I purchased Anti-Mode 8033S II. I replaced the subs with better subs. I relocated the better subs. I upgraded from XT to XT32. At +/-0dB MVC, I'm measuring 105dB to 115dB. The room rumbles, the loveseat rumbles, the cushion I'm sitting on rumbles, the floor moves, the wife holds her ears, one can feel the sonic waves coursing through the air......this is as good as it's going get.

(boo-hoo me)

...tongue.gif

And no, I'm not arguing against the need to lose the dips. I've used everything I have in my arsenal but, like the Feds, print more money. The only choice I have is buying a third FV15HP and that can't happen until Sep/Oct. Is that like the Feds printing more money? tongue.gif And if a third sub is added, that's going change the whole dynamics of the EQ'g process and I really don't want to go there.

I'm old, I'm tired and after well over a year of goofing with the sound system, I concede defeat. The stupid little unsmoothed dips of <7dB more than +/-3dB that are 2Hz, 3Hz and 10Hz wide, have won the day. I salute the little buggers cause in my opinion, they're here to stay.

...wink.gif

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 1/22/14 at 3:19pm
post #13367 of 15159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

I posted the following in the REW thread but want to post it here as well.
I just want to give my opinion after following the Audyssey subs distances tweak as I was finally able to watch a couple movies. I did two tweaks/changes to my system: 1. Move one sub to right back room corner and leave the other one upfront toward the center of room instead of having both upfront by my main. 2. Follow the Audyssey subs distance tweak with great success. My room now is energized/pressurized with lots of great bass that cannot be localized and I now do have a lot more of the tactile feeling. Before, I can tell that my bass was front heavy. I really do enjoy my system much more than I ever had. I truly believe this great result is from both of my subs placement changes and the distances tweak, and perhaps also with the close mics Audyssey cal patterns (within 3" from MLP). For the first time I can say that I have graphs to back my statement up smile.gif. Dialogue is easy to hear without having to bump it up 2-3db like before. Front three blends so much nicer with my subs now; perhaps the reason for unlocalized bass regardless of having one sub kind of nearfield (as compared to before). I was afraid of being able to locate the sub near me, but I swear I could not (I was even looking at it from my LP). I usually listen at -10 MV but had to reduce to -15 as it was loud with strong deep bass coming from everywhere in my ~2600 ft^3 seal room. One more thing: Dual FV15hps ROCKs down to 10hz in my room with AUTHORITY - absolutely cannot be happier. smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif. And yes I listened to dual Captivators, 8 18" SI seal (at two different places), and three Triaxes at four different occasions so I kind of know how my dual stands up against the big boys.

Before:


After:




All graphs are unsmooth except where noted.

Subs only. Pink: before, Blue: after


1/6 smoothing of the above: Red: before, Green: after


Center and subs. Red: before tweak, Green: after tweak, Dark gray: subs only

Pretty much as good as you can get! Bravo!

Now onto the next thing... great response in the time domain?
post #13368 of 15159
Hey Guys,

Right now I have a Denon 1713 and both Rythmiks up front in between my towers. I want to move one sub to the back left corner of the room and keep one up front in the right corner of the room. I have tried doing this, but the sub in the back left corner completely overpowers the sub up front as it's closer to the MLP. If I upgraded my receiver to the Onkyo TX-NR818 with XT32 would that dial in the subs accurately with them being in two different spots in the room or do they have to be equidistant to my main seat?
post #13369 of 15159
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post

Hey Guys,

Right now I have a Denon 1713 and both Rythmiks up front in between my towers. I want to move one sub to the back left corner of the room and keep one up front in the right corner of the room. I have tried doing this, but the sub in the back left corner completely overpowers the sub up front as it's closer to the MLP. If I upgraded my receiver to the Onkyo TX-NR818 with XT32 would that dial in the subs accurately with them being in two different spots in the room or do they have to be equidistant to my main seat?

no because the 818 does not inculde sub EQ HT which calibrates each sub independantly. you would need an AVR such as the denon x4000
post #13370 of 15159
That receiver can be had right now for $699. I really didn't want to spend anymore money on my system at this point in time, but if it will give me much better performance I am all for it.
post #13371 of 15159
I was afraid someone was going to say that smile.gif and correct me if I am wrong, but that is the cheapest receiver currently on the market that has Sub EQ HT?
post #13372 of 15159
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post

I was afraid someone was going to say that smile.gif and correct me if I am wrong, but that is the cheapest receiver currently on the market that has Sub EQ HT?

yes that I know of..it can be had for right around 1,000$ (I MIGHT have a 2 month old one for sale for much less than that once the emotiva xmc-1 comes out...if it is as nice as billed)
post #13373 of 15159
post #13374 of 15159
just make sure its an authorized dealer otherwise the warranty will not be valid
post #13375 of 15159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

just make sure its an authorized dealer otherwise the warranty will not be valid

Good catch!
post #13376 of 15159
Check out Accessories4less.

Give JD a call who's with AVS sales, and see what type of deal he can give you.
post #13377 of 15159
I'm familiar with accessoriesforless, but don't they offer refurbs only? I'll reach out to JD I always forget that you can buy gear on here too.
post #13378 of 15159
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post

I'm familiar with accessoriesforless, but don't they offer refurbs only? I'll reach out to JD I always forget that you can buy gear on here too.

Correct, my understanding, they only sell referbs. As to AVS selling gear, I'm sure they try not to push this issue because it can put people off. As a user of AVS and one who has purchased from AVS, when I can I like to put a plug in for them.
post #13379 of 15159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardiff Kook View Post

Thanks for the detailed answer. Please allow me to continue to probe, for my benefit and hopefully others reading...

Having full range speakers which play flat to 32hz, I am using the Rythmik for true sub bass only. Therefore, I assume I want to set the Rythmik sub XO to 32 or lower. This gives me 12db per roll off with a slight bump at 50hz, but otherwise flat to 20hz (which is thy limit to my SPL meter). If I adjust the phase from 0 to about 90, I definitely get MORE bass at 50. I get too much, wth about a 5 db peak. My assumption is that I do not want this peak, thus I do not want to "firm up" the energy further at the XO. Is my assumption correct, or is there something other tha flat frequency which I should pursue?

One thing may be interesting to know is whether the peak at 50hz is from the room, or from sub + full range speaekrs. You can spread out the corner frequencies of HPF and LPF. You can also use the phase alignment trick to partially reduce the room induced peak at 50hz. In short, 0 degree phase difference between full range and subwoofer gives you 3db more output than 90 degrees phase difference.
Quote:
For example, at higher frequencies, multiple drivers could measure flat but smear the image. Is this a risk at 50 hz? Should I be concerned both with frequency and timing in the low bass? Is this part of what I am adjusting with the phase knob? If so, do I want to firm it up, and if too high, equalize it back out with the PEQ?

The smearing issue that you referred to was due to a fundamental issue that we cannot make all multiple drivers behave exactly the same way. In other words, they are harder to make perfect than single driver speakers. Imagine what if there is a bad apple in the line arrays. It is much more difficult to pin-point. That is basically my perspective on the sound characteristic from line arrays. This also has a little bit to do with what Chaos theory teaches us. The speaker is a very simple device to engineers. We, as engineers, only care about T/S parameters. But there are too many real world issues, such as how basket vibrates, that vary from one driver to another that we don't even have a model. But we tend to think every driver is same as another. But in reality, they are not.

So now back to the subwoofers. You don't need to be exact about the frequency and timing because the wavelength is longer. Whether to use PEQ or just fine tune LPF/HPF corner frequency plus phase depends on 1) if the peak is room-related, and 2) if the peak is within the frequency range of the subwoofer. If the peak is above the LPF corner frequency, the effectiveness of our PEQ is reduced.
post #13380 of 15159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

It is hard to say what had happened. I recommend to put the power slide switch on our amp to "OFF" when plug in the power and then slide it to "AUTO" or "ON" when the source is ready. The loudest thump noise occurs when the power cord loses contact (or power) from a fraction of a second, up to one second. What happens is, during the short period of time when the amp loses power, some part of the circuit discharge faster than the other parts. When the power is returned, some part reaches "ON" state sooner than what they are supposed to. In an audio system with multiple preamp and power components, there is also a "so-called" power sequence to avoid getting noise when the system powers on as some amp may leak small output signal at the moment of powered on. When we test the amp for power on noise, it is tested based the assumption the plate amp is powered off at least 2 seconds and then power on again (with no input signal). Our recommendation is power on the plate amp with "red" light and not playing anything from the source. If the source does start playing even before you power on the subwoofer, you may hear loud pop noise when the light turn from red to green (even though it is rare that this happens, that is, it may not be repeatable).

I will check by plugging in the power cord with the above sequence again and check if you see red light (instead of green light) and if you hear the loud thump/pop noise again (with the source already power on). If it does happen again, then it is NOT normal.

Forgot to report back: I tried the sequence of turning the amp off, unplugging, plugging back in, and turning the amp back on while leaving the LFE cable plugged in without issue (light turned red then green when switching to on). Is it crucial that the amp and/or source be off when connecting the LFE cable - even if nothing is being played by the source?

I am hoping this one time event didn't cause any permanent damage - everything seems to be working ok ::fingers crossed::. Is there anything else I can check to ensure full functionality?
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