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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 97

post #2881 of 9846
3/12/11 at 5:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treyster View Post

Bill, what amp do you use with the parasound? In your opinion, how big of a difference does it make for music to use the more analogue pathing?

Treyster,

I am using a Boston Acoustics A7200 (Sherwood A-965 clone) amp. To avoid side tracking this thread post your questions in the 2100 thread linked below. I will be glad to give you my thoughts on the 2100 there.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=2100

Bill
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post #2882 of 9846
3/12/11 at 11:56pm
I've read a lot of good things about Rythmik subs so I'm considering one currently. My room is 3000 cuft and I'm about 75% movies/tv but want a sealed sub and I place very high importance on music. My wife would like to see as small a sub as possible in our living room. My question is: could I get away with the smaller F12 or do I need to be looking at the E15 or F15 to get decent output in my room? I'm not looking to blow the roof off but want something I'll love for quite some time.
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post #2883 of 9846
3/13/11 at 12:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre325 View Post

I've read a lot of good things about Rythmik subs so I'm considering one currently. My room is 3000 cuft and I'm about 75% movies/tv but want a sealed sub and I place very high importance on music. My wife would like to see as small a sub as possible in our living room. My question is: could I get away with the smaller F12 or do I need to be looking at the E15 or F15 to get decent output in my room? I'm not looking to blow the roof off but want something I'll love for quite some time.

I have approx 2350 cu ft room with 2 E15's. They get the job done both music and movies. I listen to movies at -8 -5 db, on thoughts rare night when I what ref-level I have enough horsepower.

Bottom line you will be happier with the most subwoofer you can get. Because you will want to turn up the volume with Rythmik subs after you hear them .

Brad
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post #2884 of 9846
3/13/11 at 1:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADH View Post


I have approx 2350 cu ft room with 2 E15's. They get the job done both music and movies. I listen to movies at -8 -5 db, on thoughts rare night when I what ref-level I have enough horsepower.

Bottom line you will be happier with the most subwoofer you can get. Because you will want to turn up the volume with Rythmik subs after you hear them .

Brad

Thanks Brad, that's what I was afraid of :-). I rarely go above -35 with movies but go considerably louder with music.

Are there any F12 owners out there with rooms close to 3000 cuft that feel they are able to fill their space at a reasonable level?

Brad, any other comments on the E15? To be honest I haven't heard a lot about it so anything you can share would be much appreciated! Also, know of any reviews out there on it?
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post #2885 of 9846
3/13/11 at 8:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre325 View Post

My question is: could I get away with the smaller F12 ... ?

There are so many factors more important than room size -- but none more important than a harmonious marriage.

Distance to sub?
Current mains?
Current sub?
Etc. etc.

You should audition an F12 or an E15.
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post #2886 of 9846
3/13/11 at 8:23am
I got four spikes and four small metal disks in the spike box. Is anyone using the disks? So far I'm still speculating about how they might be used.
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post #2887 of 9846
3/13/11 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I got four spikes and four small metal disks in the spike box. Is anyone using the disks? So far I'm still speculating about how they might be used.

Do you mean you don't know what they are used for?

If so, the disks are for the floor, and the points of the spikes rest on them.
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post #2888 of 9846
3/13/11 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre325 View Post

...My question is: could I get away with the smaller F12 or do I need to be looking at the E15 or F15 to get decent output in my room?...

bodosom has already mentioned that room size alone isn't enough to answer your question. However I will tell you about my situation should you decide you can extrapolate from any of the info. I have an ~2300 cu-ft theater in the basement (poured concrete floor and 3 cement block walls) fully enclosed on all sides, so essentially sealed. Originally I got a single F12 with the 300-watt amp and it was enough to pressurize the room without feeling I was ever flogging the sub. However, like you, I too don't need to push bass to insane levels to enjoy... music is maybe 55-65dB (calibrated to the main seated position) and movies 65-75dB and no more... I do set the sub level 2-3dBs hot though. Only later did I add a second F12. However the reason I purchased the original F12 was because Brian was out of F15s and the projected ETA was over three months out at the time. I needed to get the sub right then so I was forced to go with the F12. I would suggest the F15 for your room size unless the size factor is really that major a deal with the wife and then maybe later on you could purchase a second one to smooth out the in-room response and boost headroom.
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post #2889 of 9846
3/13/11 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre325 View Post

I've read a lot of good things about Rythmik subs so I'm considering one currently. My room is 3000 cuft and I'm about 75% movies/tv but want a sealed sub and I place very high importance on music. My wife would like to see as small a sub as possible in our living room. My question is: could I get away with the smaller F12 or do I need to be looking at the E15 or F15 to get decent output in my room? I'm not looking to blow the roof off but want something I'll love for quite some time.

I've got a room that is about 4000 cubic feet but is open to the kitchen, formal dining room and front entry. I built 2 of the down firing 12" Rythmiks. I get plenty of out put from these 2 subs. Audessey set one at -4.5db and the other around -10db(that one is corner loaded) so there is still plenty of room. I think with proper placement, you could get by with one 12" but two would be better. Your room will determine whether or not one will work.
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post #2890 of 9846
3/13/11 at 12:55pm
Finally had some free time to dial in the dual F15s. Sound was a little off and apparently someone had accidentally tweaked one of the phase knobs. Ironed that out and also added a BK Advance(wireless kit) under the sofa.

This is where I'm at and will be for awhile, at least in regards to bass. Mind you, I had never heard of Rythmik, REW, Antimode, Buttkicker, etc. before Thanksgiving.



Many thanks for the informative posts in this thread and in the forum as a whole.
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post #2891 of 9846
3/13/11 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

There are so many factors more important than room size -- but none more important than a harmonious marriage.

Distance to sub?
Current mains?
Current sub?
Etc. etc.

You should audition an F12 or an E15.

I agree about the marriage comment .

My current equipment is basically all going to be replaced in the next few months so I don't want to make any decisions based on it. For reference though, my current sub is a small MB Quart sub with a 9" woofer that I bought used many years ago. Unfortunately for me, it's only about a 15" cube so my wife has grown to like the fact it can fit under our end table. The end table is right next to our L-shaped couch so it's placed nearfield about 5 feet from the main listening position. I can't place it in any corners anywhere near the main listening position to get corner loading. I've attached a couple pictures below. My current speakers are all KEFs.
LL
LL
LL
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post #2892 of 9846
3/13/11 at 5:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by monomer View Post

bodosom has already mentioned that room size alone isn't enough to answer your question. However I will tell you about my situation should you decide you can extrapolate from any of the info. I have an ~2300 cu-ft theater in the basement (poured concrete floor and 3 cement block walls) fully enclosed on all sides, so essentially sealed. Originally I got a single F12 with the 300-watt amp and it was enough to pressurize the room without feeling I was ever flogging the sub. However, like you, I too don't need to push bass to insane levels to enjoy... music is maybe 55-65dB (calibrated to the main seated position) and movies 65-75dB and no more... I do set the sub level 2-3dBs hot though. Only later did I add a second F12. However the reason I purchased the original F12 was because Brian was out of F15s and the projected ETA was over three months out at the time. I needed to get the sub right then so I was forced to go with the F12. I would suggest the F15 for your room size unless the size factor is really that major a deal with the wife and then maybe later on you could purchase a second one to smooth out the in-room response and boost headroom.

Thanks for the reply. I'm sure most are going to suggest going with the larger subs if at all possible. I'm still just trying to decide how big of a sacrifice it would be going with the F12. I'm sure compared to the sub I have now I'd be blown away. My room is completely sealed as well (we close the door in the pictures from my last post when watching movies).

Quote:
Originally Posted by badgerpilot View Post

I've got a room that is about 4000 cubic feet but is open to the kitchen, formal dining room and front entry. I built 2 of the down firing 12" Rythmiks. I get plenty of out put from these 2 subs. Audessey set one at -4.5db and the other around -10db(that one is corner loaded) so there is still plenty of room. I think with proper placement, you could get by with one 12" but two would be better. Your room will determine whether or not one will work.

Thanks for the feedback. I gotta start somewhere and it sounds like it'd be a safer bet to just go with the E15 should I decide on Rythmik (that is, IF I can talk the wife into it since it's larger than the other options I'm considering.
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post #2893 of 9846
3/13/11 at 5:54pm
I'd like to thank everyone for the support and thought for me and my family. I am now able to come back to offer more help. I have also cleaned up my PM box. Do feel free to send me emails asking questons.
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post #2894 of 9846
3/13/11 at 7:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nith View Post
Unstoppable.

This movie has some serious bass. I feel vibration from my sofa even I listen @ -32. I don't believe I had the same feeling watching HTTYD at this volume level.
I'm really surprised someone hasn't start a thread about the bass in this movie. The wife and I watched it a week ago and it actually FELT like a train was rumbling right through the house... IT WAS FREAKIN' GREAT! I have both our couches on wooden risers because we are in a basement on a poured concrete floor and with the Rythmiks up front its just sheer sound pressure waves that move us and the mass we are sitting on. Those subs just shook the hell outta the risers and couch (of course we had the gain up around 70dBs)... talk about getting immersed into a film. For anyone who hasn't seen this movie, its worth it for the physicalness of its LFE track and its not a bad movie to watch either... pretty exciting actually.
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post #2895 of 9846
3/13/11 at 8:14pm
So as some of you know I have been struggling with placement of my new E15 in our room. I had a chance to burn a test tones CD and map out the FR curve with my SPL meter (c weighting) - the plot of which has been attached. I guess I am wondering if a curve like this is normal. Besides the big null at 60 hz the general volume from 20-45hz is pretty low by comparison to the 50-80 range - it was surprising to me anyways that there was a general trend of higher output as the frequency got higher, I thought these subs were flat down to at least 20hz. This was done using a receiver volume of 70db (white noise reference) and the SW level at 25%. SW settings were PEQ off, 20hz mid damping.

I also tried this out in multiple locations throughout the room and got basically the same looking plot. Could this all be caulked up to room acoustics, or is there something else at play on the SW itself? I would really appreciate feedback. Thanks.
LL
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post #2896 of 9846
3/13/11 at 8:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjodotcom View Post
So as some of you know I have been struggling with placement of my new E15 in our room. I had a chance to burn a test tones CD and map out the FR curve with my SPL meter (c weighting) - the plot of which has been attached. I guess I am wondering if a curve like this is normal. Besides the big null at 60 hz the general volume from 20-45hz is pretty low by comparison to the 50-80 range - it was surprising to me anyways that there was a general trend of higher output as the frequency got higher, I thought these subs were flat down to at least 20hz. This was done using a receiver volume of 70db (white noise reference) and the SW level at 25%. SW settings were PEQ off, 20hz mid damping.

I also tried this out in multiple locations throughout the room and got basically the same looking plot. Could this all be caulked up to room acoustics, or is there something else at play on the SW itself? I would really appreciate feedback. Thanks.
That looks messed up. Start with the basics to make sure your measuring process is sound. Measure about an inch or two from the center of the driver. See what you get when you do that.
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post #2897 of 9846
3/13/11 at 8:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabrick7 View Post
Finally had some free time to dial in the dual F15s. Sound was a little off and apparently someone had accidentally tweaked one of the phase knobs. Ironed that out and also added a BK Advance(wireless kit) under the sofa.

This is where I'm at and will be for awhile, at least in regards to bass. Mind you, I had never heard of Rythmik, REW, Antimode, Buttkicker, etc. before Thanksgiving.

Many thanks for the informative posts in this thread and in the forum as a whole.
How do you like the Buttkicker? I'm always interested in feedback regarding the units as I only recently became aware of their existence as well.
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post #2898 of 9846
3/13/11 at 8:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjodotcom View Post
So as some of you know I have been struggling with placement of my new E15 in our room. I had a chance to burn a test tones CD and map out the FR curve with my SPL meter (c weighting) - the plot of which has been attached. I guess I am wondering if a curve like this is normal. Besides the big null at 60 hz the general volume from 20-45hz is pretty low by comparison to the 50-80 range - it was surprising to me anyways that there was a general trend of higher output as the frequency got higher, I thought these subs were flat down to at least 20hz. This was done using a receiver volume of 70db (white noise reference) and the SW level at 25%. SW settings were PEQ off, 20hz mid damping.

I also tried this out in multiple locations throughout the room and got basically the same looking plot. Could this all be caulked up to room acoustics, or is there something else at play on the SW itself? I would really appreciate feedback. Thanks.
That curve is whacked. Try a couple of things: download a sweep from say 20-200Hz and play it in an endless loop. You should be able to clearly hear those peaks and nulls without need for an spl meter. Now walk around the room and sit and stand in various listening spots... does the peak and null response change? Then you can play a single tone thats in the middle of a null and again walk around the room... does it remain a null everywhere? Play a peak tone and walk around the room, can you find a place where it disappears (null)? Finally, redo your SPL graph but this time hold the meter within a foot of the driver, now what does this graph look like? any resemblance to your other graph at listening position? If you do these things, I think you will begin to understand just how important the room is where low frequencies are concerned but this kind of stuff you really have to prove to yourself. Good luck, have fun and let me know what happens.

BTW, the room is also important to the higher frequencies as well but in a different way.
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post #2899 of 9846
3/13/11 at 9:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatawan View Post
That looks messed up. Start with the basics to make sure your measuring process is sound. Measure about an inch or two from the center of the driver. See what you get when you do that.
Glad I wasn't the only one who thought so =). Well I was just about to try to the trick with the SPL meter close to the sub when I noticed that sound was actually coming from my LR main speakers as well when running the sweep! I don't know why this is happening, as I have my crossover frequency set on the receiver to 80hz for all speakers and the sub - but it would definately explain why the output gets louder as the frequency rises (the fronts are only rated down to 50hz).

So then, I figured to get a quick answer I would just unplug the mains and try it again and worry about the reciever weirdness later. Well, I got to around 30hz and the reciever crapped out on me (the volume was at the exact same level I was running it at before with the mains plugged in). Without the mains connected, it doesn't seem to want to let me run at any volume loud enough to do the SPL test right - it just keeps shutting itself off. Does any of this make any sense? /facepalm
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post #2900 of 9846
3/13/11 at 9:29pm
mjodotcom -- Sorry I didn't go back to check your first posts. However, are you sure you have your E15 hooked up correctly? The sub's amp should be connected to your AVR's (or Pre/Pro) sub-Pre-Out connector (a signal level, audio output). The AVR should be set for "Sub = Yes", you need to start with your LFE crossover set to 80Hz, and your mains should be set to "Small".

Your curve implies that you are not sending any LFE (and bass below 80Hz) to the sub, and all the audio is going to your main speakers only. You need to verify the hookup and AVR settings first, before you try to do any further trouble-shooting. It also implies that you have a major room null, at your listening location, around 60Hz.

I apologize if you have already done all of this.
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post #2901 of 9846
3/13/11 at 9:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post
mjodotcom -- Sorry I didn't go back to check your first posts. However, are you sure you have your E15 hooked up correctly? The sub's amp should be connected to your AVR's (or Pre/Pro) sub-Pre-Out connector (a signal level, audio output). The AVR should be set for "Sub = Yes", you need to start with your LFE crossover set to 80Hz, and your mains should be set to "Small".

Your curve implies that you are not sending any LFE (and bass below 80Hz) to the sub, and all the audio is going to your main speakers only. You need to verify the hookup and AVR settings first, before you try to do any further trouble-shooting. It also implies that you have a major room null, at your listening location, around 60Hz.

I apologize if you have already done all of this.
No need to apologize. Yes the subwoofer is connected to the pre out and turned on on the receiver. The LFE crossover is set to 80hz and all individual speakers are set to 80hz (no small vs large setting). There is definately sound coming out of the sub. What it appears is happening here is the receiver is not obeying these crossover settings, as sound is also coming out of the mains even when it is not supposed to (which could also explain these curves)! Read my last post for more detail as some other weird stuff is also going on which I would appreciate some suggestions.

I am curious, at a receiver reference volume of 70db what sort of output should I expect from these subs when the on subwoofer level is at halfway? I think the LFE output in general might be faulty as well because this has always felt like it was lacking a bit. Thanks everyone for their help so far.
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post #2902 of 9846
3/13/11 at 10:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre325 View Post
my current sub is a small MB Quart sub with a 9" woofer that I bought used many years ago. Unfortunately for me, it's only about a 15" cube so my wife has grown to like the fact it can fit under our end table.
I still suggest an audition. If the F12 will fit under your table and you have to keep the table (or equivalent) then start with that. Alternatively you could get the E15 and use it as the end table (don't forget the museum wax).
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post #2903 of 9846
3/13/11 at 11:23pm
mjodotcom -- I went back to your post #2686 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=2686), which I think is your first one with your E15. I read that and your subsequent posts on that page (I'm running at 60 posts/page).

Now I'm even more confused. It sounds like it worked quite well at first, but now the performance is hosed. Based on that, you might have had an electronics failure. The question is if it is in the E15 amp, your AVR, or even a failed cable (AVR to E15). You should consider giving Rythmik a call tomorrow. Possibly Brian or one of his associates should be able to provide you with some trouble-shooting help (remember, they are on Central Daylight Time).
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post #2904 of 9846
3/13/11 at 11:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom
I still suggest an audition. If the F12 will fit under your table and you have to keep the table (or equivalent) then start with that. Alternatively you could get the E15 and use it as the end table (don't forget the museum wax).
I built the end table myself so I hate to get rid of it. I could always make a larger one but that's more work. I'll need to keep something there, but could move the chair next to it and put a sub there if it looks nice enough.

I'd love to demo, but in order to afford one of these I'd need to pick up the DIY kit so I don't think that will be possible.
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post #2905 of 9846
3/14/11 at 4:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjodotcom View Post
Glad I wasn't the only one who thought so =). Well I was just about to try to the trick with the SPL meter close to the sub when I noticed that sound was actually coming from my LR main speakers as well when running the sweep! I don't know why this is happening, as I have my crossover frequency set on the receiver to 80hz for all speakers and the sub - but it would definately explain why the output gets louder as the frequency rises (the fronts are only rated down to 50hz).

So then, I figured to get a quick answer I would just unplug the mains and try it again and worry about the reciever weirdness later. Well, I got to around 30hz and the reciever crapped out on me (the volume was at the exact same level I was running it at before with the mains plugged in). Without the mains connected, it doesn't seem to want to let me run at any volume loud enough to do the SPL test right - it just keeps shutting itself off. Does any of this make any sense? /facepalm
It sounds like either there is a setting wrong or the LFE cable could possibly be plugged into the wrong preout (AVR or the sub). It could also be an issue with the AVR as you post that the AVR shutdown. What AVR do you have?

Bill
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post #2906 of 9846
3/14/11 at 5:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjodotcom View Post
So as some of you know I have been struggling with placement of my new E15 in our room. I had a chance to burn a test tones CD and map out the FR curve with my SPL meter (c weighting) - the plot of which has been attached. I guess I am wondering if a curve like this is normal. Besides the big null at 60 hz the general volume from 20-45hz is pretty low by comparison to the 50-80 range - it was surprising to me anyways that there was a general trend of higher output as the frequency got higher, I thought these subs were flat down to at least 20hz. This was done using a receiver volume of 70db (white noise reference) and the SW level at 25%. SW settings were PEQ off, 20hz mid damping.

I also tried this out in multiple locations throughout the room and got basically the same looking plot. Could this all be caulked up to room acoustics, or is there something else at play on the SW itself? I would really appreciate feedback. Thanks.
What meter are you using? Have you applied the necessary meter corrections to the readings before plotting?
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post #2907 of 9846
3/14/11 at 6:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post
It sounds like either there is a setting wrong or the LFE cable could possibly be plugged into the wrong preout (AVR or the sub). It could also be an issue with the AVR as you post that the AVR shutdown. What AVR do you have?

Bill
I have an Onkyo TX-SR674. Any idea what SPL output I should expect when at a 70 db receiver reference volume and the SW level is set halfway with no level calibration adjustments on the receiver?
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post #2908 of 9846
3/14/11 at 6:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post
mjodotcom -- I went back to your post #2686 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=2686), which I think is your first one with your E15. I read that and your subsequent posts on that page (I'm running at 60 posts/page).

Now I'm even more confused. It sounds like it worked quite well at first, but now the performance is hosed. Based on that, you might have had an electronics failure. The question is if it is in the E15 amp, your AVR, or even a failed cable (AVR to E15). You should consider giving Rythmik a call tomorrow. Possibly Brian or one of his associates should be able to provide you with some trouble-shooting help (remember, they are on Central Daylight Time).
"Now I'm even more confused" - you and me both! Might be worth giving Rythmik a call to see whats up. It still worries me that when playing the test tones CD I am hearing sound come out of the L/R mains when I shouldn't be. Also doesn't make any sense why the receiver would play the tones fine when the mains were connected, but shuts off when they are disconnected with the volume unchanged. Brian, hope everything is well with your family. Have any light to shed on this situation?
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post #2909 of 9846
3/14/11 at 6:43am
Make sure Double Bass is turned OFF and you are in stereo mode (not pure or direct mode as these modes will not send a signal to the sub). Have you tried swapping out the RCA cable with a known good one?
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post #2910 of 9846
3/14/11 at 7:02am
I built the DS1500 vented downward firing with the 500 watt peq amp. I am constructing a HT. What is the proper distance from the wall? I am understanding that the sub should be placed into a corner, is this correct? Does the suggested distance from the wall apply to both sides of the sub or only to the vents?

Thanks for the help
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