Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 223

I have the subwoofer firing straight. I have tested it with 45 degree angle and it created bigger dips everywhere. I have placed the single subwoofer between the two blue dots on the left, where it also created more serious dips but shifted the 32Hz null to other frequency. I'll try with the suggested placement (between the 2 blue dots on the right) once I got the second FV15HP with me. But is it OK to have 2 subwoofers placed at different distances from the main listening position? My AVR only has Audyssey MultEQ XT, which it cannot time-align 2 subwoofers separately..

This is good that’s what you wanted to see. The second sub will fill in the null at 32Hz and the first sub will fill in the null that the second sub created, thus they will complement each other and even out the bass response throughout your room. I have the same problem with distance settings, my AVR uses Audyssey MultEQ. I am also using an Audioengine W1 wireless adapter that adds 20ms delay for my Rythmik and wired for my second sub. Set the distance in the middle between the two subs and take a reading with REW, then go up and down one foot at a time taking readings each time then compare the results and use the setting with the lest phase interference. You will see the dip at the crossover grow more or less with each reading. If you don’t already have some means of EQ’ing your subs I would strongly recommend it. I have a Behringer 1124 that works great and is about the cheapest out there but it is manual, because you already have REW your half way there. The other automatic methods on the market work very well but are 2-3 times the price; I couldn’t justify the price so I went the cheap route.

^^^ You can also try adjusting the phase knob on the sub.

You are right I didn't think about using the phase setting that way, thank you for pointing that out.
Larry

Thanks, I'll be picking up another FV15HP, just have a couple other things to take care of first. Shouldn't take too long though. We are really enjoying the first, thanks.

Also, that's a great policy to employ. It is going to go a long way in customer loyalty as well as word of mouth recommendations to potential customers. Thank you

Hi everyone. I'm new to all of this. My interest is about 80% HT and 20% music. I am considering doing an addition to my house that would include a home theater with some serious stuff, maybe up to 50K or more, but that is perhaps in 6 months or longer. For the time being I have been putting together a system in a "great" room with high ceilings. It includes the living room with tv in front, then dining area and kitchen and hallway behind, all very open. It is 10000+ cubic feet.

I started by buying 2 definitive tech STS towers as they were a great deal open box at BB, $1700 for both. Then online I purchased two def tech gem XL's for the rears and a def tech CS8080 for center. I also purchased online a new Pioneer Elite SC 67 and some 12 G speaker wire from monoprice.

I am trying to decide on a subwoofer now. I have considered buying 2 top of the line 15" Rhythmics since I think that might be sufficient SPL. Which Rhythmic sub is the best? Are they all front-firing?
My intention is to put the sub in a compartment under our tv niche, which is bounded on the back and sides by cement. The front of the compartment is dry-wall so I was thinking I'd have my carpenter cut out the front and place cheese-cloth or some other aesthetically acceptable surface through which sound travels easily.

Will there be any problem with the cement surroundings in the sub compartment with regard to acoustics? Is it a problem to place two front-firing subs side by side with a foot or so in between? There are so many subs on the market, I'm not really sure what to do. I can buy a Velodyne DD18+ in excellent condition less than 1 year old for a great price, but am worried about lack of a warranty. How does that sub compare to two Rhythmics? I also want ease of use so I'd like a sub like the V DD18+ that has a built-in equalizer. I don't want to have to deal with all the technicalities as I am completely ignorant to all of this.

How about other subs like seaton submersive, JL fathoms, captivator s2, etc. etc. I'd like good value for the money without compromising performance. Are some subs overpriced like the JL's, or are they actually better in some way?

Thanks,

Joe

Many wiser more experienced than I around here, but here's my 2cents...

I just went through the subwoofer research and upgrade phase and have had my FV15HP a bit less than a month and am very Very VERY pleased with it. I am coming from a velodyne VA1512 (12" front firing, 15" passive down); it does have a newer 12" woofer than the original. The rythmik blows it away in every respect. I anticipated it going deeper and louder (which it does) but that is not what is amazing me. It is sooo much more detailed and accurate. I can hear very subtle things like fingers moving around on bass guitar strings clearly, like the artist is in the room. It just sounds sweat. I suspect the servo design is contributing to this but I'm a user, not the designer :-) Additionally, the build quality is very high. It was recently noted these are built like a tank. I love the feel of the knobs on the amp, how sturdy the box is all around, the woofer, the ports, the finish, the everything.

I'm sure the Velo you mentioned would also put my older Velo to shame, but in general you are going to get much more value in a subwoofer from the internet direct folks than the brick and mortar folks. Velodyne simply has a ton more cost (marketing, mark up for B+M profits, big corporate salaries, etc...) I was a collage student working at circuit city part time when I bought my velo, the employee pricing was more than 50% off, and that kept the shipping costs in!!! Rythmik is clearly putting those fees into higher quality components and more sub. Haven't seen that particular Velo in a challenge with a rythmik so you should dig up some graphs, there are many rythmik graphs around. As far as the other subs you've mentioned, (seaton submersive, JL fathoms, captivator s2), I have read more about the submersive and captivator and not soooo much on the JL. These are all high end subs that get rave reviews and loyal customers. Like the Rythmik, clearly they are a solid step up from say the HSU VTF15. I have not heard them personally but read many a rave review about each. I did so prior to selecting this Rythmik as well, choose this anyway, and am not looking back one bit.

As far as which Rythmik sub, your room size justifies the 15" and HP and it sounds like the budget supports that. The general recommendation is ported (FV15HP) for set ups that are primarily HT and sealed (F15HP) for set ups that are primarily music. So from your description, you should lean towards the FV15HP. However, please take that music recommendation cautiously. This FV15HP is the most musical sub I have personally heard and has increased my music ratio from 25% to 50% or more. It sounds great on music. From a technical stand point, the ported will get louder while still going sub 20hz. sealed commonly gets referred to as "tighter" or more accurate which I cannot understand how to get tighter or more accurate than this. The sealed will extend a little deeper because of a more gradual roll off, the ported design gets down there but rolls off more sharply because that is the nature of ported designs. Also note you can get a multi sub discount of 10% if you add more subs and there are lots of benefits (flatter response) to multi subs. It is reported you can use the discount after the fact so when you get your dedicated room down the road you can add on and get the discount.

Hope this helps
Edited by dstew100 - 7/6/12 at 6:52am

As for ease of use, you would have done yourself a big favour getting a receiver with Audysey XT32 and SubEQ such as the Denon 4311 (look in the great found deals section for good prices) or higher end onkyo (3009, 5009 I think, plus there's some XX10 models coming out soon with this feature). Two subs can be a challenge to get playing nicely together but you should be able to do it with an SPL meter and some time. If that is not your cup of tee though, the XT32 and SubEQ will do it for you. The SubEQ gets the levels and phase correct independently for each sub (there are two LFE output jacks), then XT32 EQ's them to sound good. The Pioneer Elite SC 67 does not have this feature. Most receivers with two LFE outputs are really the same as an RCA splitter on one jack, it really just looks like one sub to the receiver.

There are some other product that do this as well such as the Velodyne SMS-1 which I believe is pretty automated. If you like tinkering you can get your own PEQ solution such as minidsp or behringer's stuff, and put together a Room Eq Wizard (REW) set up. With REW you set up your own mic, through the computer, and it generates test tones to the AVR; it creates graphs so you can create the EQ, prolly more involved than you want to get. If the Pioneer is past the return period and you can't rapidly re-sell and go for XT32 with SubEQ you probably want that SMS-1. I believe SVS has a similar product, and there are more on the market. I've been told many many folks have moved from the pioneer to audysey XT32 + SubEQ solutions and were very pleased they did.

Any future plans to offer the F15HP in the Matte Black finish?

Thank you - the Black Oak finish would be glossier than this?

I have the black oak. It's not really glossy. But definitely not matte. Basically it's the same black oak veneer finish you see on so many speakers. It actually blends perfectly with my B&W 600 series speakers. So you could look at some pictures of those as well to get an idea of glossiness.

I recently changed around my system a bit and I now get a hum from all five speakers when I power up my system. If I unplug my F12SE the hum stops, if I plug it back in the hum is back. I tried a cheater plug and the hum is gone. I do not want to leave the cheater plug on and was wondering what options are available. I was thinking of a power cord like the PS Audio with the removable ground lug but thought that was no different than the cheater plug. The room my system is in is on one circuit so I can't plug the sub in so it is on a different circuit than the main system. So if anyone has any suggestions that I could possibly add in line that will retain the safety of the ground I'd appreciate it .

Bill

What exactly did you change?

There is probably no problem with using the cheater plug, but it would be helpful to know what changed before making other suggestions. Without knowing anything else, assuming part of what changed was where things get plugged in, you might want to get an extension cord aand make sure the sub is plugged into the same circuit as everything else.

There are line-level isolation devices, active and passive, that would break the ground loop on the signal (RCA) side instead of at the power output.

Don,

Thanks for your help . The change I made was removing my Parasound 2100 preamp from the system. In doing this I eliminated the one RCA connection between my 4311 and the 2100. All components are plugged into a Panamax 5300EX power conditioner other than the sub. My system is in my livingroom which all outlets are on the same circuit. I can try a line-level isolation device as you suggested. But if I recall when I disconnect the RCA cable at the sub the hum is still there. I'll have to check that tomorrow when I get home. Thanks again.

Bill

If the hum is still there when you unplug the RCA from the sub something else is bonkers...

Sounds like the preamp may have broken a ground loop for you (they can do that). If the sub is not plugged into the same outlet as the Panamax, I would try that first (perhaps just temporarily move the sub) and see if it helps.

I had a similar thing, but the RCA was causing it. I blame my DirectTV box that is hooked up to a different circuit at the satellite. As soon as you unplug the RCA, the ground loop issue is broken. I ended up just going the cheater plug route.

I also have another strange humming problem that is caused by my wife's curling iron being plugged in and injecting noise into my power line. This one happens regardless of RCA. But it's intermittent since it only happens when she plugs this one thing in.

Sounds like your issue is none of these though. Strange. Those hums can be frustrating. Is your whole system humming or just your subs?

Thanks - my little HTiB sub is in Black Oak. My 5.0 speakers are Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1's in Natural Bamboo, and I have mish-mash home decor, so I would go for the least obtrusive, most durable, and easiest to maintain finish.

If I go with the F12, the only choice would be Black Oak - I'm still wondering if the F12 maintains better resolution and speed at low volumes (e.g. 40-50dB at listening position, vs. 70dB) than the F15...

Will the matte black finish be cheaper than the black oak finish?

For $100. more you can get the F15. If you can swing the extra money than that would be your best bet. Me? I at first looked at the F12, then saw the F15 for that extra $100. Ended up buying an FV15 for $300. more!

Jeff

F15 is same price ($974), whether in Matte Black or Black Oak: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F15.html

Thanks. Right now my concern is with less, not more. Not less quality, but rather less volume, and the ability to maintain high audio quality at low volumes.

When I move to a freestanding private house on a large plot of land away from other houses, and have a dedicated $100,000 A/V room that strives to put commercial movie theaters to shame, of course I'd go with 4 custom builds using DS1500CI kits to generate earth-shaking effects at reference+ volumes. Or maybe then it would be time to move to 18" or larger drivers, or do the sub-basement as super subwoofer thing that guy in Italy(?) did.

But for now, I'm in a 60-year old wood-frame building, with apartments all around me. The A/V room is also a living room/office, and I will listen to classical music at low volumes deep into the night while working on a project. Yes, the F15 can and will go louder than the F12 - but how does it compare when played softer? No one here uses their subwoofers for low volume music?

I listen to a multitude of content at low volumes and have been very happy with my 'F15', as well doing marvelously at higher volumes. I went the DIY route and built a sealed down-firing DS1505. Now I wish that I had waited another month or two to upgrade to the 600watt amp but cest le vie.

Best Regards
KvE

Thanks for sharing your low-volume listening experiences. Subwoofer discussions stongly emphasize going higher in output and lower in frequency response for dramatic movie effects (i.e. Irene in "Black Hawk Down"), but a subwoofer's ability to play music well at low volumes in a non-fatiguiing way is just as important to me.

I'd love to have the opportunity to DIY and custom build subwoofers into furniture or into the walls themselves, someday. With the mention of the higher-output amp, you've also opened up the possibility of the E15 - for me it's not the extra power, it's the realization that 19" x 19" x 21.5" is pretty big in my room.

F12 $874 15.75" x 15.75" x 18.5" 80 lbs
F15 $974 19" x 19" x 21.5" 102 lbs
E15 $1074 17" x 19" x 20.5" 104 lbs (H550PEQ3 version)

I don't listen at loud volumes very often, but my F15HPs seem to fill in the low end perfectly regardless how loud it is. The whole sound is always very balanced with the mains. The best part is that sometimes at low volume you hear some obvious LFE from a soundtrack - even at low volumes. It doesn't shake the walls due to the low volume, but it is still there! These two Rythmik subs have been one of my all time top favorite purchases ever.

That's what I meant when I said it just sounds sweet :-)

Rythmik Brian,
Question though, clearly my FV15HP is a big step up from my previous sub so I am rightfully blown away. I understand it may be a little political and such so I won't name names but... Considering only ID subs that cost more than the FV15HP and/or F15HP without a servo design (hmmm, wonder which few I have in mind here), can they keep up in the accuracy department or are they just more blunt LOUD and DEEP??? No worries if you don't want to comment, I understand, but I have not heard the others and being very pleased with this, I do wonder. Comments from all are welcome of course, hopefully some of you all have heard these and the others.

So, now you have the sub connected directly to the 4311 with nothing else in between the two or in front of the Denon? When you unplug the F12SE and the hum stops, do you mean the power cord or the RCA cable? And is the hum only in the speakers or also the sub?
As others stated it sounds like it may be a ground loop issue. If the hum stops when you disconnect the RCA cable from the F12, try another cable. It's the easiest test (assuming you have another known good cable).
I have an E15 connected to a 4311. Initially they were connected using an RCA cable from monoprice. After about a month and a half, a hum started coming from the sub (but not the other speakers). A new cable from BJC solved the problem and now there is no more hum (and did not have to resort to a cheater power cable).

Good choice. BJC subwoofer cable would be what he requires as they are better screened and have better connectors than monoprice do.

I use BJC LC-1 subwoofer cable between my Denon 3310 and F12SE. No hum or noise of any type in sub. Eerily quiet.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/subwoofer/index.htm

I use dual 30' runs of quad shielded RG6 coax from my 4311 to my Rythmiks and have no noise/hum.

Jason