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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 225

post #6721 of 15139
Has anyone used a a pair of the GR 12" drivers and the Rythmik 370W amp in a 2-12 cabinet? Are there cabinet plans for such a design?
post #6722 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post

I apologize if this has been covered, but 6721 postings are just too much to go through. I’m looking to upgrade my sub and Rythmik is one of several that I’m considering. I’m wondering about the frequency response. My Denon 3808 (with Audyssey MultEQ XT) has set the crossover for my L&R speakers at 60Hz, my center at 80 and my surrounds at 110. When I look at the sub specs I see a frequency response of 14-100Hz for the 12’s and 14-90Hz for the 15’s.
A couple of the 12’s have this statement, “The new A370PEQ2 amplifier, now shipped standard with F12SE, has an additional low pass filter setting --LFE. It extends the upper end -3db extension to 200hz.”, but still has a spec of 14-100.
So, is my selection limited to the two 12’s with the A370PEQ2 amplifier or is there something that I’m missing about the rest?
Also, is the LFE setting for the extension to 200Hz going to affect the 14Hz end of the range?

I have updated the web pages. All LFE inputs have 200hz upper extension. All LINE IN has 90hz -100hz upper extenson. All of our models has both LINE iN and LFE IN (except PEQ series which has only LINE IN). This allows dual inputs at the same time.
post #6723 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post

Has anyone used a a pair of the GR 12" drivers and the Rythmik 370W amp in a 2-12 cabinet? Are there cabinet plans for such a design?

If one driver needs 370WRMS, then two of such drivers need 370WRMSx2=740WRMS. One of Danny's customer made a mistake and use A300 (300WRMS amp to drive two GR12 drivers. In a small room, that is ok. But in a large room, he found the amp overheats very fast. I explained to him it is because he has constantly over-drive the amp into clipping. Our servo amps have very fast recovery time. So you don't hear much anomaly if you don't pay attention. Plus the version of A300 he has does not have built-in limiter (the version for FV12 has). So when he crank up the volume, the amp goes to clipping all the time. The fix? Use H600/H550 amps. He has purchased a H550 amp in the current sale. In the future, HX800 is the amp to drive dual-driver subs. But price wise it is not really much cheaper than two of A370 amps. So it is more for dual drive in same enclosure, not left - right separate enclosure configuration (unless the customer installs the NL4 to make the connection to the remote sub).
post #6724 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

In the future, HX800 is the amp to drive dual-driver subs. But price wise it is not really much cheaper than two of A370 amps. So it is more for dual drive in same enclosure, not left - right separate enclosure configuration (unless the customer installs the NL4 to make the connection to the remote sub).

Do you have the price set up yet for the HX800? Is it safe to assume it is going to be around $700-800? I think my dual lack power in the lower ends. Not sure what the technical term is...when set to 20Hz mode, the subs seem to be energetic...it's like 5-8 year old kids running around without tiring. In the 14Hz, it's like 70 year old guy...I guess freq lower than 20Hz requires LOTS of power.

Maybe going for 1510s is more economical. How much is each 1510?
post #6725 of 15139
Any plans of installing a LED that lights up when clipping ?
post #6726 of 15139
So it's better to put one 12" driver in a cabinet with one 370W amp, and use two cabinets per side if one wants 2 12's per side, rather than 2 12's in a single cabinet with a single 370 driving both drivers? I thought that two 8 ohm drivers would be about equivalent to a single 4 ohm, as far as running off of a 370W amp. Incorrect?
post #6727 of 15139
I just ordered the F12 in Black Oak a few minutes ago. I really would have prefered the Matte Black but couldn't resist the discounted price. Where it will be located it won't matter that much anyway. My current sub bit the dust a couple of weeks ago and I've been researching various models ever since. It was a tight race between SVS and Rythmik but I liked the versatility of the Rythmik. I'm sure the F12 will perform very well in my rather small living room, 12'x17'x8 '.

Now the hard part.... waiting for it to arrive!
post #6728 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

I have updated the web pages. All LFE inputs have 200hz upper extension. All LINE IN has 90hz -100hz upper extenson. All of our models has both LINE iN and LFE IN (except PEQ series which has only LINE IN). This allows dual inputs at the same time.

Thank you for your response. What also confused me (one the burdens of being a novice) is that all of the photos of the rear panels for the various amps show line in and out only. No LFE.

As soon as I put together some notes on my setup and room size I'll post them for some recommendations on which sub will suit me best.

Thanks again!
post #6729 of 15139
A question for Brian of Rythmik or any of the other knowledgeable of his group..........
PC>DAC>F12 >Swan200MKIII's
I have my Swan M200MKIII"s being fed through the A370PEQ amp (F12 sub.....size, distance, weight and being strictly a PC setup were factors in my decision to go with the 12" driver) and being cross-overed (actively?..passively?) in the sub at 80hz.
My question is.........If the sub is turned off is the below 80hz data being sent to my Swans?
It's just a "I wanna know" thing.
Regardless of the answer this setup is the real deal without a doubt for up close and personal listening.......
Thanks Brian.
post #6730 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by silvrbill View Post

A question for Brian of Rythmik or any of the other knowledgeable of his group..........
PC>DAC>F12 >Swan200MKIII's
I have my Swan M200MKIII"s being fed through the A370PEQ amp (F12 sub.....size, distance, weight and being strictly a PC setup were factors in my decision to go with the 12" driver) and being cross-overed (actively?..passively?) in the sub at 80hz.
My question is.........If the sub is turned off is the below 80hz data being sent to my Swans?
It's just a "I wanna know" thing.
Regardless of the answer this setup is the real deal without a doubt for up close and personal listening.......
Thanks Brian.

As long as the power cord is not unplugged (that is at least red light is on), the preamp board is still functioning.
Edited by Rythmik - 7/19/12 at 3:14pm
post #6731 of 15139
hi guy,

want to ask i am using denon 3311 and it is recommended to on the Dynamic EQ when playing movie using my Rythmik FV15HP or is recommend to off the Dynamic EQ?

Thanks
post #6732 of 15139
Set it however you like, the sub won't care. There is a lot of discussion of the pros and cons of dynamic EQ in the Denon and other AVR threads. It won't get louder at max volume on or off so should not impact the sub's power handling.
post #6733 of 15139
And i thought this guy (Brian aka Rythmik) just answered post in this forum, guess i was wrong :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

I have updated the web pages. All LFE inputs have 200hz upper extension. All LINE IN has 90hz -100hz upper extenson. All of our models has both LINE iN and LFE IN (except PEQ series which has only LINE IN). This allows dual inputs at the same time.

Edited by qguy - 7/20/12 at 3:49pm
post #6734 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post

And i thought this guy (Brian aka Rythmik) just answered post in this forum, guess i was wrong :-)

This is a user forum with answers coming mostly from other Rythmik owners so yes you were wrong. With technical questions being answered by Brian (owner/designer/engineer) because he wants to support his customers and advise his potential customers. How many companies do you know of where you have access to this level of knowledgeable support?
post #6735 of 15139
i was meant it as joke, hence the smiley at the end...... as this is the first time I have read that he updated the website, which means that he is also the webmaster, aside from the multiple hats he wears at Rythmik,

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryU View Post

This is a user forum with answers coming mostly from other Rythmik owners so yes you were wrong. With technical questions being answered by Brian (owner/designer/engineer) because he wants to support his customers and advise his potential customers. How many companies do you know of where you have access to this level of knowledgeable support?
post #6736 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post

Thank you for your response. What also confused me (one the burdens of being a novice) is that all of the photos of the rear panels for the various amps show line in and out only. No LFE.
As soon as I put together some notes on my setup and room size I'll post them for some recommendations on which sub will suit me best.
Thanks again!
If it helps Tom C, I just received my F12 today (WOO-HOO!!!) with the PEQ3 amp and it does have 2 inputs for LFE right next to the Line inputs.
post #6737 of 15139
Rythmik-

I must say the F12 sounds absolutely great and I haven't even truely set it up yet. For tonight I just went with the recommended settings for a Line Level connection. 28Hz/Low Damping, Rumble Filter On. I watched X-Men: First Class on HBO and was very impressed with the low end and how well it blended with my mains. Later this weekend I'll run my AVR's room correction and play with the settings some but as of right now I am one VERY happy customer.

Thanks!
Ish
post #6738 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishniknork View Post

If it helps Tom C, I just received my F12 today (WOO-HOO!!!) with the PEQ3 amp and it does have 2 inputs for LFE right next to the Line inputs.

Yes, it does, thanks! A 90Hz limit on extension would have been a deal breaker.

Now would be a good time for suggestions. My current sub is a Velodyne CHT-12 (25-120Hz, 400W, 170 rms).

My speakers are NHT:
L&R- Model 1.3: 1" + 6.5", 52Hz - 25kHz, 8 ohms 86dB, 30W - 150W
Center- Model 1C: 1" + 6.5", 63Hz - 22kHz, 8 ohms 89dB, 20W - 150W
Model Zero: .75" + 4.5", 85Hz - 21kHz, 8 ohms 86dB, 15W - 100W

Denon 3808ci with Audyssey MultEQ XT sets xo’s at 80Hz for the front & 120 for surrounds.
Listening position is 9 ½’ from the front & sub and 6’ from surrounds.

Here is my layout. When I drew it up at work I realized that I didn't take measurements of my TV, stand, and front speakers. I actually have less space around that area. So I had to fudge it.

post #6739 of 15139
Question About Master-Slave subwoofer connection:

Is it possible to use the master-slave connections to join three identical model Rythmik subs together via XLR or RCA? I ask because I'll be using two F12s to start and hopefully they'll provide enough output. But if I want to add a third F12 with only a single XLR/RCA out from my prepro how would I connect it?
post #6740 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post

Yes, it does, thanks! A 90Hz limit on extension would have been a deal breaker.
Now would be a good time for suggestions. My current sub is a Velodyne CHT-12 (25-120Hz, 400W, 170 rms).
My speakers are NHT:
L&R- Model 1.3: 1" + 6.5", 52Hz - 25kHz, 8 ohms 86dB, 30W - 150W
Center- Model 1C: 1" + 6.5", 63Hz - 22kHz, 8 ohms 89dB, 20W - 150W
Model Zero: .75" + 4.5", 85Hz - 21kHz, 8 ohms 86dB, 15W - 100W
Denon 3808ci with Audyssey MultEQ XT sets xo’s at 80Hz for the front & 120 for surrounds.
Listening position is 9 ½’ from the front & sub and 6’ from surrounds.
Here is my layout. When I drew it up at work I realized that I didn't take measurements of my TV, stand, and front speakers. I actually have less space around that area. So I had to fudge it.

Ok, here’s my take. Every Rythmik sub is going have a little more SPL than your Velodyne (if you were happy with its output) from the F12 that will be a little louder to the FV15HP that will blow it out of the water, all will play deeper and cleaner. All of the Rythmik subs have about the same sound quality with a little different sound signature between sealed and ported. So it boils down to size that will fit in the space you have and price how much do you want to spend. Between ported and sealed, if you watch more movies then get the ported, more music then sealed. One other thing if your main speakers are ported then the ported subs may match them better. Also I would try moving the sub to between the table and the audio cabnet just to give it a try may not sound as good but it’s worth a try. Hope this has given you some food for thought. Let us know what you get and how you like it.
Larry
post #6741 of 15139
Hi,

Another question i am using FV15HP and when playing movie is it recommend to use limiter on or off to fully utilize the FV15HP.
post #6742 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by squall12 View Post

Hi,

Another question i am using FV15HP and when playing movie is it recommend to use limiter on or off to fully utilize the FV15HP.
You could turn the limiter off if you are not playing that loud, but if your not that loud then why would you need to. The limiter is there to prevent the driver from bottoming out and damaging it. I always leave my on. You should also have the rumble filter on.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
post #6743 of 15139
+1.

I cannot tell a difference in sound at normal volumes with or without the limiter. Brian took a lot of care in the design to ensure it had minimal (essentially zero, IME) impact during normal operation. If you page through this thread, or call him, you will find he is quite particular about sound quality, and wanted to make sure he could protect without corrupting the sound. IMO he succeeded. I'd leave it on.
post #6744 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryU View Post

Ok, here’s my take. Every Rythmik sub is going have a little more SPL than your Velodyne (if you were happy with its output) from the F12 that will be a little louder to the FV15HP that will blow it out of the water, all will play deeper and cleaner. All of the Rythmik subs have about the same sound quality with a little different sound signature between sealed and ported. So it boils down to size that will fit in the space you have and price how much do you want to spend. Between ported and sealed, if you watch more movies then get the ported, more music then sealed. One other thing if your main speakers are ported then the ported subs may match them better. Also I would try moving the sub to between the table and the audio cabinet just to give it a try may not sound as good but it’s worth a try. Hope this has given you some food for thought. Let us know what you get and how you like it.
Larry

Thanks Larry. My Velodyne is 10 years old and replaced a Velodyne F-1000 which was 10 years old at the time. There was a noticeable improvement with the CHT-12 over the F-1000. I suspect with 10 more years of advancement in subwoofer technology whatever I get will be a significant improvement over the CHT-12.

I've been happy with my sub, but with the increased bass in movies now days and the sub advancements plus I don't know how good of bass I'm actually getting, I feel more and more like I'm missing bass here and there. One thing that is on my mind right now is that even though my Denon has the Audyssey MultiEX XT, I think that it may not be enough to correct any problems that I may have in my room. I'm considering something like the SMS-1 which will give me not only a reasonably decent graphic image of what's happening, but will allow me to smooth it out before applying Audyssey.

Any thoughts or suggestions on this?
post #6745 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by squall12 View Post

Hi,
Another question i am using FV15HP and when playing movie is it recommend to use limiter on or off to fully utilize the FV15HP.

I have my FV15 limiter on when watching movies. Once in a while I'll flip the limiter off when playing music. Just being cautious!!!

Jeff
post #6746 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post

Thanks Larry. My Velodyne is 10 years old and replaced a Velodyne F-1000 which was 10 years old at the time. There was a noticeable improvement with the CHT-12 over the F-1000. I suspect with 10 more years of advancement in subwoofer technology whatever I get will be a significant improvement over the CHT-12.
I've been happy with my sub, but with the increased bass in movies now days and the sub advancements plus I don't know how good of bass I'm actually getting, I feel more and more like I'm missing bass here and there. One thing that is on my mind right now is that even though my Denon has the Audyssey MultiEX XT, I think that it may not be enough to correct any problems that I may have in my room. I'm considering something like the SMS-1 which will give me not only a reasonably decent graphic image of what's happening, but will allow me to smooth it out before applying Audyssey.
Any thoughts or suggestions on this?

Tom, I recently purchased the Rythmik FV15HP, also coming from a velodyne. My Velo was a VA-1512 (12 in front firing woofer and 15 in down firing passive radiator 1000watts if I recall correctly); looks to be more sub than the F1000 if I looked up your specs right. Mine was maybe 12 years old, but I had updated the 12in woofer about 4 years ago to the new one. Before pulling the trigger on the Rythmik I cranked Transformer DOTM straight to reference and pounded on the Velo Hard (not worrying about hurting it since it was getting replaced or added to). It performed very admirably and I was impressed, although that amp was good and hot, I didn't want to touch it after putting my fingers close. Therefore I tempered my expectations; I was wrong to do so. The Rythmik outperforms it by far in every aspect I care about. I've done the measurements with REW and it goes significantly deeper with more output, however, what I am really enjoying the most is how much better it sounds (I try to be careful on the wording here). For me it sounds really precise and realistic (accurate???), I hear very subtle details in the bass range that simply were not there before, the example I've thrown out there a bunch of times is the bass guitarist fingers moving around on the strings. I have greatly increased the amount of music I am listening to as a result, before I was around 20% music. Another aspect that really impressed me was the over all build quality, these are very nice from the woofer, to the nobs on the amp, to the finish, to the box's... very high quality build. I have since watched Transformers DOTM at reference and there is a huge difference, the Velo was clearly struggling, not producing near as much tactile rumble, and not getting any where near touching those deep deep sounds. I'd need to bring the graphs back up but from memory the velo -3db for me was around 28hz and the Rythmik in my room is around 10hz, I need to do more measurements though. That is a big difference and for me has translated to a big step up in my home theatere system's performance, more enjoyment, and revitalized increased music time.

During my search I looked at most of the internet direct folks pretty hard and ended up here, very glad I did.

I could not be more pleased with my purchase, hope this experience helps. Recommend you spend some time reading through this thread, you will find many impressed users very happy with their purchase. I'm already pulling money together for a second one.
post #6747 of 15139
Help me hit reference level !! cool.gif

(Rhythmik, if you're reading, I just asked through the web site...)

I'm going to have a dedicated room, 22' x 15' x 9'. Completely sealed. One door, one window, both closed while in use.

7 speakers, all set to small with an 80Hz crossover.

My plan is to get a pair of subs and put one centered on the front wall and one centered on the rear wall (to get smoother response).

I want to be able to hit reference level (I won't always listen that loud, but want the option) at the main listening position, which is roughly in the center of the room.

Usage will be 50/50 HT/music. I am after super high accuracy, so I have pretty much made up my mind that sealed Rhythmik subs are the way to go.

Which model sub (a pair) will get me to reference level in this room?

If there's any math to your choice, please include in reply!

Thanks,
Richard
post #6748 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

Tom, I recently purchased the Rythmik FV15HP, also coming from a velodyne. My Velo was a VA-1512 (12 in front firing woofer and 15 in down firing passive radiator 1000watts if I recall correctly); looks to be more sub than the F1000 if I looked up your specs right. Mine was maybe 12 years old, but I had updated the 12in woofer about 4 years ago to the new one. Before pulling the trigger on the Rythmik I cranked Transformer DOTM straight to reference and pounded on the Velo Hard (not worrying about hurting it since it was getting replaced or added to). It performed very admirably and I was impressed, although that amp was good and hot, I didn't want to touch it after putting my fingers close. Therefore I tempered my expectations; I was wrong to do so. The Rythmik outperforms it by far in every aspect I care about. I've done the measurements with REW and it goes significantly deeper with more output, however, what I am really enjoying the most is how much better it sounds (I try to be careful on the wording here). For me it sounds really precise and realistic (accurate???), I hear very subtle details in the bass range that simply were not there before, the example I've thrown out there a bunch of times is the bass guitarist fingers moving around on the strings. I have greatly increased the amount of music I am listening to as a result, before I was around 20% music. Another aspect that really impressed me was the over all build quality, these are very nice from the woofer, to the nobs on the amp, to the finish, to the box's... very high quality build. I have since watched Transformers DOTM at reference and there is a huge difference, the Velo was clearly struggling, not producing near as much tactile rumble, and not getting any where near touching those deep deep sounds. I'd need to bring the graphs back up but from memory the velo -3db for me was around 28hz and the Rythmik in my room is around 10hz, I need to do more measurements though. That is a big difference and for me has translated to a big step up in my home theatere system's performance, more enjoyment, and revitalized increased music time.
During my search I looked at most of the internet direct folks pretty hard and ended up here, very glad I did.
I could not be more pleased with my purchase, hope this experience helps. Recommend you spend some time reading through this thread, you will find many impressed users very happy with their purchase. I'm already pulling money together for a second one.

Perfectly said!!

Jeff
post #6749 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by squall12 View Post

Hi,
Another question i am using FV15HP and when playing movie is it recommend to use limiter on or off to fully utilize the FV15HP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryU View Post

You could turn the limiter off if you are not playing that loud, but if your not that loud then why would you need to. The limiter is there to prevent the driver from bottoming out and damaging it. I always leave my on. You should also have the rumble filter on.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

+1.
I cannot tell a difference in sound at normal volumes with or without the limiter. Brian took a lot of care in the design to ensure it had minimal (essentially zero, IME) impact during normal operation. If you page through this thread, or call him, you will find he is quite particular about sound quality, and wanted to make sure he could protect without corrupting the sound. IMO he succeeded. I'd leave it on.
Interesting post Don. Always thought limiter was bog-standard and would corrupt music in some form or other.

My F12SE(A370PEQ3) limiter is always off, even after a 6 month run-in. I use an external mains switch for it.

That said, I always run AVR at low-moderate volume settings for music mostly. Only concern is BD of "Inception". That title is a beast for LFE. eek.gif

Maybe I should invoke AUTO-ON now. Think it's time for it yet?
post #6750 of 15139
I am not sure what you mean by "bog standard". The limiters I have designed and used in professional systems do add an opamp, sometimes, but below the threshold essentially have no impact on the sound. There is increasing impact as you approach near and surpass the threshold, natch, as the diodes/FET/whatever devices that do the limiting begin to turn on. How hard and how fast is a design trade... It may be I simply have not pushed my subs anywhere near the limiting threshold in my small'sih room and at my listening levels.

Not sure if it matters, but I am not using the auto-on feature. Mine are on or off.
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