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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 233

post #6961 of 15136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post


Here's a quick sketch:

Subs are FV15HP. I don't think types of subwoofer affect anything. Sidewall position doesn't help much.

        skylinestar put a sub at the front center if possible or very near to the center ch. or even under it. Put a second sub at the rear center about six inches from the back wall. And either move your seat in toward the screen about 2'2' or back away from the screen 2'2". Your sitting too close too the middle of the room length that will cause a null! This will make a big differance in how it sounds in your room. Try it you'll like the results! I've done this many times have a little faith.

post #6962 of 15136
No room correction. I'm running a stereo preamp.

But I believe the room correction should only be required to fine tune.
I'm getting no power, punch or powerful volue from the f15. Just rumbling....honestly sounds lik a h theater in a bx sub.

I'm going to try running of a nad receiver today to see if the issue is with my parasound preamp.

IveI had lesser subs in my room....that sounded way better....so I think something is defective somewhere.
post #6963 of 15136
Turn the crossover up all the way and see if there is any difference.

Also, please list all your current connections and sub settings.

Tnx - Don
Edited by DonH50 - 9/2/12 at 2:53pm
post #6964 of 15136
Quote:
Originally Posted by pissant View Post

No room correction. I'm running a stereo preamp.
But I believe the room correction should only be required to fine tune.
I'm getting no power, punch or powerful volue from the f15. Just rumbling....honestly sounds lik a h theater in a bx sub.
I'm going to try running of a nad receiver today to see if the issue is with my parasound preamp.
IveI had lesser subs in my room....that sounded way better....so I think something is defective somewhere.

It can be defective. On the other hand, we tested all subs just before they are shipped. So the defective rate of our subs you hear on this forum is very low. But still unexpected things can happen. In the past, I did hear once that a customer had an AVR with defective SUB channel. He found this when he borrowed a friend's sub. You had a ML sub. I am not sure if you still have it. You can do the same thing. If you don't, can you do one thing for me? Can you plug in the full range signals from your preamp without HPF filtering to the sub's LFE inputs using the same cable (ie, just move the plug end that goes to your power amp and plug it into our sub LFE inputs so that we include cable in the test) and see if that gives you a more normal sound? It not, I would send you a return shipping label and have this sub checked out.
post #6965 of 15136
Rythmik....when I plug the rcas into then LFE IN vs the LINE IN, it definitely is much more musical and defined.

The LFE is much better sounding than the lineIN. Seems like its actually playing notes now vs rumbling noise.
Volume is also louder going LFEIN, but still doesn't seem that loud.
But the LineIN is definitely just rumbling now that I can hear notes actually being played in the LFE IN.

But the LINEIN should be the preferred way correct?

Does this mean something is defective?
post #6966 of 15136
Since you have compared with other subs I would not assume this is the issue...but subs in general sound more "rumbly" and less defined than regular speakers. If you only heard the sub and not paired it with other speakers you wouldn't hear much music. I just hope your expectations are not beyond what a sub is supposed to do? Of course there is also the chance there is something really defective. Just make sure you compare to another sub and make sure the sound is less defined with Rythmik. In that case, there is definitely a problem because my Rythmik is the most punchy and defined sub I have ever heard. Of course if I listen to it and nothing else, it sounds like a bunch of rumbles. The beauty is how it pairs with your mains for a very cohesive sound.
post #6967 of 15136
Quote:
Originally Posted by pissant View Post

Rythmik....when I plug the rcas into then LFE IN vs the LINE IN, it definitely is much more musical and defined.
The LFE is much better sounding than the lineIN. Seems like its actually playing notes now vs rumbling noise.

You meant the LFE by itself, or LFE plus front speakers?

This reminds me another customer I had before. He had very expensive gears (I cannot remember the exact brands) that he wanted to impress me with. But he said our sub is defective and he explained he "calibrate" the sub by listen to the sub by itself using a full range signal feeding to the sub. I hope you don't follow this step smile.gif No speaker designer will calibrate his tweeter by just listen to the tweeter by itsef. It is the integration of the tweeter with the woofer that is important and that involves crossover. The same principle goes to the integration between sub and front speakers. LFE sound louder because it has 200hz bandwidth so you hear far more information. The line-in sound less loud because our hearing is not as sensitive to below 100hz as the signal between 100hz and 200hz. For subwoofer channel, you don't need full 200hz. You just need to find the right crossover and phase adjustment.
Quote:
Volume is also louder going LFEIN, but still doesn't seem that loud.

If you need, you can turn the volume all the way up. The volume knob is more of the gain matching than an indication of how loud it can play. Customers would use our sub volume between 12 o'clock position to 3 o'clock position. Other sub gets too loud already at 9 o'clock position. That is actually a disadvantage. One customers told me his H** sub has only two volume settings, either loud bass or no bass because there is not much room for adjustment between 9 o'clock and 7 o'clock (vs between 12 o'clock and 7 o'clock).
Quote:
But the LineIN is definitely just rumbling now that I can hear notes actually being played in the LFE IN.
But the LINEIN should be the preferred way correct?
Does this mean something is defective?

LFE does not have phase control and crossover control capability. But those two are important. If your preamp has phase control capability, then you can use LFE IN. LINE-IN is for the setup there is no external bass management (not even a LPF).

Lastly, our subs does sound cleaner. It takes time to realize that (or as other said "get used to").
Edited by Rythmik - 9/2/12 at 10:27pm
post #6968 of 15136
Running RCA from subout on the parasound 2100. Im listening with the Sierra towers running full range.

When volume knob is at 3 o'clock on the rythmik....there is essentially no volume. I have to turn to around 9 o'clock to hear anything.

When RCA is connected to the LFE in on the rythmik....I can feel the sub produce sound and move in sync with a kick drum for example. Seems In time and clean but overall is low on impact , even on full volume.

When connected to the LineIN on the Rythmik....it's just random rumbling. It's not in the sync with any of the drums, bass, nothing. Seems odd to me and very distorted sounding.

I understand cleaner sound...which I would love. But I get no big punch, kick on either inputs and jumbled bass mess when hooked up to LineIN.. For example was playing Black album from Metallica. Lots of clean recorded drums and bass on that record that really kicks hard. The rythmik when on full volume is there, but not authoritatively. Tried multiple crossover points.

The quick guide I have recommends using LineIN whenever possible. To me...LineIN on my sub is unlistenable. It distorted, rumbling and incoherent. Completely off time with the music. Sub is right next to the speakers.

It's very possible I'm not hooking things up right and I'm missing something.
But the lesser subs I've used have made immediate positive impacts.

Either way...I'll need to return to either ascend or rythmik. Maybe someone there can tell me if it's defective or I'm delusional and missing something.
Edited by pissant - 9/2/12 at 10:58pm
post #6969 of 15136
Sounds like he wants the sub playing higher than the current Line (crossover) setting. Perhaps that is what his system needs, or perhaps he is expecting more of a "woofer" than subwoofer?

pissant -- Have you tried line in with the crossover knob at its highest frequency setting? If so and you still hear nothing but noise, perhaps there is an issue with the line input.
post #6970 of 15136
Quote:
Originally Posted by pissant View Post

Either way...I'll need to return to either ascend or rythmik. Maybe someone there can tell me if it's defective or I'm delusional and missing something.

Mike, that is not a problem. Please ask Dina to email you a return shipping label and we will check it out.
post #6971 of 15136
Hello Everyone, I just currently splurged on a Denon 4311ci and brought my Klipsch RF-7II's and 64-II out of their boxes. Anyways, last time I had them setup, I had my trusty BIC-PL200 in the same setup (was using these with my old/bedroom setup with Klipsch RF-82's).

With the RF-7II's bigger woofers, the BIC-PL200 was obviously the weakest link. So much that i would rather not connect it now that the rf-7IIs are out. Long story short, I would like to purchase the FV15(HP) very soon.


1. What is the SE stand for in FV15HP-SE. I searched this forum for the phrase "FV15HP-SE" and didn't see anything other than those who bought this also got the silver cone. So I am wondering if it automatically includes it and that is the only difference between the FV15HP-SE and the FV15HP, or there is something else.

2. Considering the room layout that I will include in this post, I am unsure if getting the 600 watt amp or the 550 watt amp will suffice. I don't immediately plan on going duals for at least another 3 years because of budget, I don't live in the house, and I am already concerned about noise.

I plan on (for the first time) using accoustic treatments on the back and front wall, and corner where the subwoofer may be. The back wall (behind couch) will have some sort of bass traps/broadband? Place is carpeted as well.

post #6972 of 15136
I think I may have to opt for the 550 amp as I forgot they charge for shipping frown.gif and $1200 was my max budget.

How long is this going to be offered, this discount for switching to a 550watt amp? and the lower price compared to the SE version?

Thanks
post #6973 of 15136
Se=Signature Edition=Piano black finish
post #6974 of 15136
The SE refers to the piano black finish and the silver cone driver is optional. Both options offer no difference in performance.

There is only a .5db difference in output between the H600PEQ3 and H550PEQ3. Barely perceptible.

The standard FV15HP with the H550PEQ3 amp would be your best buy.
post #6975 of 15136
Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp View Post

Thanks. Is there a PDF for the users guide available on-line?

Give me a couple of days. They should be on line by this weekend.
post #6976 of 15136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

Here is the photo of the prototype. The white dot on the dust cap is for me to observe the excursion. The amp is 300Wx2 dual power amp module amp. It will first appear as a kit to encourage customers mating them with high end full range (above 200hz) niche market transducers. Here is photo

Here is the frequency response.

FR is very similar to all of our other sealed subs and that is no coincidence. We use our unique transfer function cloning technique here. The output is just a bit less than one DS1200. But it extends to 200hz. If one wants to stretch a bit, it can crossover at 250hz. We expect the customers to use a pair. The future project may be a plate that can host quad amp modules.
As for how it sounds, I use them to test the poem of chinese drums and Blue man group. I like the sound very much.
Have the amp cutout dimensions changed? Looks like something with very exciting, snappy dynamics. I was recently thinking of a similar design, except it would have four drivers, two in front and two in back. I'd want a pair. I bet that would sound immediate, solid and punchy. You would really be able get into the texture of sawtooth waves...biggrin.gif
post #6977 of 15136
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwarny View Post

Very cool on the 8" drivers. Is the recommended volume for each woofer still about 15L? Trying to think how many woofers since a 2 way with a 5" midrange does not take up much height. I think 3 per side worked when I did calculations in November of last year so may have to use a Tetris L Edit - to fit the fourth driver since duals are needed per amp biggrin.gif

The test box I have is 12" wide 13-1/2" deep and 20" tall. It comes out as 16L for one driver.
post #6978 of 15136
Quote:
Originally Posted by tronic307 View Post

Have the amp cutout dimensions changed? Looks like something with very exciting, snappy dynamics. I was recently thinking of a similar design, except it would have four drivers, two in front and two in back. I'd want a pair. I bet that would sound immediate, solid and punchy. You would really be able get into the texture of sawtooth waves...biggrin.gif

Marlen at Blueberry Hill Audio has a pair of these dual 8" subs. He will introduce a new speaker based on these. He just got them in a week and he is very happy. For him, these dual 8" achieve the bass that he cannot achieve in 40 years. It is very easy to integrate. For those in Ontario area, Marlen will demo his speakers at the hifi show end of September.
post #6979 of 15136
FV15HP with 550 watt amp..ordered!

Since Rythmik is in TX, and I am in AR, shipping should be relatively fast? What is the usual time for processing before being shipped?
post #6980 of 15136
Quote:
Originally Posted by e2g_ View Post

FV15HP with 550 watt amp..ordered!
Since Rythmik is in TX, and I am in AR, shipping should be relatively fast? What is the usual time for processing before being shipped?

From personel experience, I live in North Central AZ, and received my FV15 in 3 days from ship day.

Jeff
post #6981 of 15136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

If you need, you can turn the volume all the way up. The volume knob is more of the gain matching than an indication of how loud it can play. Customers would use our sub volume between 12 o'clock position to 3 o'clock position. Other sub gets too loud already at 9 o'clock position. That is actually a disadvantage. One customers told me his H** sub has only two volume settings, either loud bass or no bass because there is not much room for adjustment between 9 o'clock and 7 o'clock (vs between 12 o'clock and 7 o'clock).
LFE does not have phase control and crossover control capability. But those two are important. If your preamp has phase control capability, then you can use LFE IN. LINE-IN is for the setup there is no external bass management (not even a LPF).
Lastly, our subs does sound cleaner. It takes time to realize that (or as other said "get used to").

If the sub’s gain set between 12 - 3 o’clock and playing loud. Is this will increase distortion and lower head room on the sub’s amp?
post #6982 of 15136
Quote:
Originally Posted by av addiction View Post

If the sub’s gain set between 12 - 3 o’clock and playing loud. Is this will increase distortion and lower head room on the sub’s amp?

Not in the circumstances where you need to turn up the sub's volume to get the sub to match the rest of the system. AFAIK, as long as you are not overloading the input with a too-hot signal, the sub's limits are exactly the same. As relevant here, I think, it's the sub's power amp section and the driver that define headroom. T
If, for example, the power amp maxes out with a 2 volt input, the power amp cannot tell whether the incoming signal is 3 volts and the volume control is knocking it down to 2 volts, or the input is .25 volts and the input section is increasing it to 2 volts. The power amp just sees the 2 volt input. You theoretically could run into a problem if the device you feed into the sub has such low output that even with the sub's gain at max you can't reach the sub's limits, but that seems unlikely . . .
post #6983 of 15136
Anybody know of a member on here that is running two SVS PB 13 ultra subs?
post #6984 of 15136
Quote:
Originally Posted by av addiction View Post

If the sub’s gain set between 12 - 3 o’clock and playing loud. Is this will increase distortion and lower head room on the sub’s amp?

I will explain it from the circuit operation point of view. The actual gain stage is located "after" the volume potentiometer, not "before". A lot of companies uses 10x. But FV12 for example uses only 3x. The actual power amp stage in our plate amp has a gain of 40x. So you know you only need 2V at most. The opamp power supply is 12v. So you have quite a bit of headroom in terms of voltage. Now in terms of distortion, it is proportional to gain. So the gain stage of 10x actually has more distortion than the one with 3x. Same is noise. Even worse, if you have to use -8db on your AVR to get the correct matching volume, that means the signal noise ratio from your sourceuce is already -8db lower than what it should be. And no technique can recover that loss of SN ratio. Nothing works in favor of a high gain preamp stage. I am not the only one makes this observation. In 2ch setup, a lot of earlier days preamp has 10x gain. But my listening level had always been 9-10 o'clock and 11 o'cloalreadyeay hurt my ears. So how much headroom in gain is in those preamps? It is so much, there are other manufacturers started using gain of 3x (which is the best compromise in my opinion), or 5x, or even go to the extreme of using passive components only (ie, no gain).

In short, you will reach power amp overload (clipping) way before you get into preamp board overload (which is also clipping).
Edited by Rythmik - 9/7/12 at 7:34am
post #6985 of 15136
Thanks pronghorn.

I was actually trying to figure out how long is the order processing time: the usual amount of hours/days before being shipped. I am kind of anxious to get it...so much that my new Denon 4311ci still has some of the packaging left on it.
post #6986 of 15136
Need some help deciding on what plate amp to get. I am going to build two CI HP600 subs. I have PSB Imagine towers, center and mini's for surround. I use a Marantz AV7005 preamp and a Emotiva amp. As of right now I have them connected with RCA cables but I want the option of hooking everything up with XLR if I decide to build a in-wall rack. So I need both RCA and XLR. What would suit me better, the XLR2 or XLR3?
post #6987 of 15136
Pix in post 6892. If you plan to slave two subs, XLR2. If not, XLR3.
post #6988 of 15136
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Pix in post 6892. If you plan to slave two subs, XLR2. If not, XLR3.

Would I benefit by running them in slave? My 7005 has hookups for sub1 and sub2 so I wonder what would be the better option?

Also for now I will be using RCA so I guess slave would only work unless I used the XLR connections.
post #6989 of 15136
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownTown View Post

Would I benefit by running them in slave? My 7005 has hookups for sub1 and sub2 so I wonder what would be the better option?
The two subwoofer outputs on your Marantz 7005 are the result of an internal Y-connector, so it won't matter whether you use the dual outs to both subs or use one of the outputs with the subs in master/slave configuration.

By comparison, the upcoming Marantz 8801 will have dual sub outs that can be independently calibrated (levels and distance), which might give the advantage to connecting your subs separately rather than as master/slave.
post #6990 of 15136
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

By comparison, the upcoming Marantz 8801 will have dual sub outs that can be independently calibrated (levels and distance), which might give the advantage to connecting your subs separately rather than as master/slave.

Independent control would be nice. I do have a customer damaged one of two HP subs he has because the calibration makes his second sub play only at half volume. I am waiting for the driver to come back to inspect. That is the potential danger of having independent control for two subs. The master/slave will have each sub plays at equal power. Anyway, I do recognize the importance of phase/distance alignment. So in our XLR2 master/slave model, the slave still has two controls availble for slave mode: 1) phase/delay, and 2) PEQ control.
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