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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 238

post #7111 of 15200
Hi,

I have almost finished the built of the enclosures for my two FV15HP Kits. At the moment I try out the internal insulating. I took synthetic Polyester wool from a German DIY Speaker supplier. He recommends 1 bag for 20l volume. The FV15HP housing has around 140l. Means 7 bags should be sufficient. In the attached picture you see, what from my understanding is necessary for the ensulation. But you see 14 bags, so double of the suppliers recommendation.

Is it too much?

Daem_01.jpg 73k .jpg file Daem_02.jpg 86k .jpg file

Regards

harry
post #7112 of 15200
What do you guys think about a F12 in a 2300 cubic foot room? I'm really limited in the location that the sub can go, so the smaller the better. It will be 50/50 music movies, but I don't listen at extremely loud levels.
post #7113 of 15200
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Well, technically a null is a low point, but phase cancellations from room modes can cause nulls that are very narrow and very deep (high-Q). How deep depends on a variety of factors including how stiff your walls/floor/ceiling and what else in the room might interact with the null. To measure, turn off all smoothing (or set to as small a BW as you can, preferably 1/12-octave or better).
If I understand, you are using three cascaded +3 dB filters? That is 9 dB of gain if they are at the same frequency, a little less if they overlap closely (depends upon the filter Q and overlap). In any event, you may be OK if you hear no distress, but might want to run a quick sweep (quick as in short-term test) and see what the response is right at the driver (stick your mic near the cone). The main thing I would worry about is that much boost overdriving the sub's speaker even though it measures flat at the listening position. I could not say if that is an issue in your system without measuring. At your listening levels etc. you may be fine.
The general problem with too much EQ anywhere in the spectrum is overdriving a speaker to attain flat (or whatever is desired) response at the listening position. Just throwing out the caution flag...
HTH - Don

Don,
Thought I would post these graphs pertaining to our post about EQ’ing from a few days ago and not boosting the signal more than 3db. I finely got some time to sit down and try a few things thought I would pass it on. The first graph is the reading from my listening position showing before and projected EQ with the numbers at the top showing where the filters are located with the three +3db boost at 40-50Hz. The second is a comparison of the near field measurements blue is no EQ red is with EQ. As you can see I don’t think I’m over driving the speaker. The third is yellow and looks like it could be getting close to over driving although it’s not hitting the limiter, this is the same curve but done with one 9db boost at 40-50Hz that clearly pushes the driver harder for the same outcome. The curve is the same at my listening position with both approaches but the one large boost puts much more strain on the driver. Thank you to everybody that had input into this discussion I have defiantly learned from it and that’s what I’m here for.
Larry

post #7114 of 15200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_THX View Post

Hi,
I have almost finished the built of the enclosures for my two FV15HP Kits. At the moment I try out the internal insulating. I took synthetic Polyester wool from a German DIY Speaker supplier. He recommends 1 bag for 20l volume. The FV15HP housing has around 140l. Means 7 bags should be sufficient. In the attached picture you see, what from my understanding is necessary for the ensulation. But you see 14 bags, so double of the suppliers recommendation.
Is it too much?
Daem_01.jpg 73k .jpg file Daem_02.jpg 86k .jpg file
Regards
harry

I think you are over stuffing. Here are pictures of mine with what Rythmik supplies with the DS1505 kit it is 1 inch thick. Nowhere near as much stuffing, you can over dampen a box, I’ve read it will make it dead sounding if you over dampen.
(This is a box I no longer use, there is a piece missing from the first picture in the upper left side.)
Larry

post #7115 of 15200
Hi,

thanks for the pictures. There is obviously less wool indeed. Did you removed something from the internal walls or were they free of woll from beginning?

Regards

Harry
post #7116 of 15200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coop39 View Post

What do you guys think about a F12 in a 2300 cubic foot room? I'm really limited in the location that the sub can go, so the smaller the better. It will be 50/50 music movies, but I don't listen at extremely loud levels.

The F12 imo should do fine...BUT...!! For $100. more you can get the F15. Then there will be no doubt.

Jeff
post #7117 of 15200
Quote:
The F12 imo should do fine...BUT...!! For $100. more you can get the F15. Then there will be no doubt.
+1. cool.gif
post #7118 of 15200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_THX View Post

Hi,
I have almost finished the built of the enclosures for my two FV15HP Kits. At the moment I try out the internal insulating. I took synthetic Polyester wool from a German DIY Speaker supplier. He recommends 1 bag for 20l volume. The FV15HP housing has around 140l. Means 7 bags should be sufficient. In the attached picture you see, what from my understanding is necessary for the ensulation. But you see 14 bags, so double of the suppliers recommendation.
Is it too much?
Daem_01.jpg 73k .jpg file Daem_02.jpg 86k .jpg file
Regards
harry

Harry, you definitely have too much of the wool/Dacron stuffing. You only need a layer on the interior walls, and nothing on the bracing.
post #7119 of 15200
Hello,

My theatre room is an 11 by 16' room, with an open back that goes to a larger room. Total cubic feet is just a hair over 3000. I don't listen at reference volume, but -5 or -10db would be common. Would 2 FV12's do the job? I don't want to spend much higher than $1000. At that price point I'd probably just do a TubaHT DIY sub or build a riser for the rear row that acts as a subwoofer.
post #7120 of 15200
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanc View Post

Hello,
My theatre room is an 11 by 16' room, with an open back that goes to a larger room. Total cubic feet is just a hair over 3000. I don't listen at reference volume, but -5 or -10db would be common. Would 2 FV12's do the job? I don't want to spend much higher than $1000. At that price point I'd probably just do a TubaHT DIY sub or build a riser for the rear row that acts as a subwoofer.

I think they would, but also I think Brian is redesiging the FV12. Haven't heard when they will be released. Someone on this forum has one FV12 and from his posts is ready to marry it!wink.gif

Jeff
post #7121 of 15200
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanc View Post

Hello,
My theatre room is an 11 by 16' room, with an open back that goes to a larger room. Total cubic feet is just a hair over 3000. I don't listen at reference volume, but -5 or -10db would be common. Would 2 FV12's do the job? I don't want to spend much higher than $1000. At that price point I'd probably just do a TubaHT DIY sub or build a riser for the rear row that acts as a subwoofer.

I think it would be fine. My theatre room is 24' x 15' with 8' ceilings and I have a single FV12 and it performs great. However my room is mostly sealed so I'm not sure how much of a difference that would make.
post #7122 of 15200
Quote:
Originally Posted by ms987 View Post

I think it would be fine. My theatre room is 24' x 15' with 8' ceilings and I have a single FV12 and it performs great. However my room is mostly sealed so I'm not sure how much of a difference that would make.

Mine is about 200 feet cubed larger than yours then, so perhaps 2 fv12's would do.

Does anyone have any idea what the redesigns would be for the fv12 ?
post #7123 of 15200
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanc View Post

Mine is about 200 feet cubed larger than yours then, so perhaps 2 fv12's would do.
Does anyone have any idea what the redesigns would be for the fv12 ?

The FV12 revision has the port in the back now instead of the front. And the grill covers the entire front.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

Some has asked how the next revision of FV12 looks like. Here is some preproduction photos.

post #7124 of 15200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

Harry, you definitely have too much of the wool/Dacron stuffing. You only need a layer on the interior walls, and nothing on the bracing.
I've overstuffed a DIY Rythmik before, and let me tell you: Even a handful can make a difference.wink.gif With too much stuffing, the bass starts sounding like it's coming from the next room.eek.gif Rythmik subwoofers are electronically damped by the servo; there is no need for excessive stuffing.
Brian, what do you think of damping panels like Blackhole 5 or NoRez, and maybe using no stuffing?
post #7125 of 15200
hi,
i'm using f12 now and thinking of adding another sub,which one will be a good combo?f12,f15 or fv15hp?thanks..
post #7126 of 15200
You should match your current sub so another F12 would be recommended
post #7127 of 15200
The main thing is do not mix sealed and ported. You will gain a little output by going with a f15 but not much, I think I would go with another f12. The main reason to add a second sub is to even out room nodes not output. You really only gain about 3db but it sounds better with that second sub.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
Edited by LarryU - 10/4/12 at 6:54pm
post #7128 of 15200
how about the phase setting for dual sub,both sets at 0?
post #7129 of 15200
Hello,
I have a 16'/14' listening area. My F12SE sounds Amazing! I would go with the F12 and if it is not enough add a twin brother!wink.gif
post #7130 of 15200
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherr127 View Post

how about the phase setting for dual sub,both sets at 0?

It depends on where they are in relation to each other as to where you set the phase. If you will look back a few pages Brian explained how to set the phase when the subs were different distances from the listening position. You set the distance setting on your AVR to match the distance of the farthest sub from the listening position then set the phase on the closest sub at 1ms delay for each foot difference in the distance of the subs. Say one sub is 20 feet and the other is 15 feet then you would set the AVR at 20 feet and put 5 ms delay on the phase of the closer sub. If they are the same distance then of course the phase is set to zero on both subs.
Larry
post #7131 of 15200
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryU View Post

It depends on where they are in relation to each other as to where you set the phase. If you will look back a few pages Brian explained how to set the phase when the subs were different distances from the listening position. You set the distance setting on your AVR to match the distance of the farthest sub from the listening position then set the phase on the closest sub at 1ms delay for each foot difference in the distance of the subs. Say one sub is 20 feet and the other is 15 feet then you would set the AVR at 20 feet and put 5 ms delay on the phase of the closer sub. If they are the same distance then of course the phase is set to zero on both subs.
Larry

Larry---By doing this, is the phase relationship between the two subs, not just to each other, but also to the mains, being considered?
post #7132 of 15200
Phase to the listening position is being considered and is what matters in that example. The AVR will (presumably) set it properly for the first sub and the rest of the speakers, but has no way to tell there are two subs at different distances (unless it has two independent sub outputs, then this discussion is moot). You then adjust the phase on the second (closer) sub so the wavefronts hit the listening position at the same time, and at the same time as the mains if the AVR did its job right.

HTH - Don
post #7133 of 15200
Hi,

so finished with the first of my two FV15HP.

here some pictures:

Sub-1.jpg 86k .jpg file Sub-2.jpg 116k .jpg file Sub-3.jpg 162k .jpg file Sub-4.jpg 136k .jpg file sub-5.jpg 107k .jpg file

And made the first measurement after some first sweeps and some first setting on the DCX2496:

rythmik.jpg 128k .jpg file

Honestly, I am really impressed from the sound check and the bass performance. I checked some first movie scenes like Battle LA, master and commander and Tron Legacy. I can´t wait till the second one is ready. biggrin.gif

Kind regards

Harry
post #7134 of 15200
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Phase to the listening position is being considered and is what matters in that example. The AVR will (presumably) set it properly for the first sub and the rest of the speakers, but has no way to tell there are two subs at different distances (unless it has two independent sub outputs, then this discussion is moot). You then adjust the phase on the second (closer) sub so the wavefronts hit the listening position at the same time, and at the same time as the mains if the AVR did its job right.
HTH - Don

i believe my onkyo 3009 got two independent sub outputs,so just let the avr set all the settings?
post #7135 of 15200
You'll have to check the manual (or post in the 3009 thread in the Receiver area) to see if they are really independent and not just two parallel outputs (i.e. two outputs, same signal vs. two outputs controlled/calibrated separately).
post #7136 of 15200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry_THX View Post

Hi,
so finished with the first of my two FV15HP...

Congrats on your build!
post #7137 of 15200
No one has checked output from the HP crossover?

If you do and find it unacceptable then the quick solution is to bypass it by adding cap to the input of the satelite system amp or preamp. That would create a frirst order filter at 90-120Hz. In my system I set it to 110Hz.

Long term solution is adding a new 2nd order Bessel crossover in the sub box. Input taken from LINE IN and output going to LINE OUT. LINE OUT connection to the original crossover desoldered. The new board should have a crossover frequency set to the most desirable for perfect matching of the sub with the rest of the system (most likely between 70 and 90Hz). The crossover board must have its own PS fed from the H600PEQ transformer 2x16.5V AC.

cheers,
post #7138 of 15200
Guys and Gals,
I ordered the FV15HP (550W) Monday and it should be here sometime this week. I cannot find a manual on Rythmik website, so I start here with a few set up questions. My dedicated theater room is ~ 2700 cubic feet, the sub will be sitting on carpet between my front L/R ~ 10ft from my listening position. I will be using a Y subwoofer cable to connect the sub to my Denon 3312 Audessey MultiXT receiver. I am upgrading to this FV15hp from Hsu vtf2.3. With my Hsu, all I had to do was connect my Y sub cable to my Denon LFE out, leave phase at 0, turn off sub cross over, adjust gain on sub so that Auddesey set the sub to close to 0db. It seems that there are a lot more options with the FV15hp. Here are what I am planning to do to set it up once the sub is here. Please advise. Thanks.
1. Connect my Y sub cable to the FV15hp L/R LFE in.
2. Set power to Auto
3. PEQ= OFF
4. Phase = 0 (to start out with), crossover=120hz
5. Set sub volume/gain to ~25%
6. Low pass slope= AVR/12, Runble filter ON/2 (2 ports open I am planning to use), extension filter frequency =14 with Low damping. These settings are the one I need help with. Not quite understand them.
7. Run Audessey set up from my Denon reveiver to have sub trim close to zero.
8. Enjoy.

Am I missing something or is there something wrong with what I am going to do?
Thanks all.
post #7139 of 15200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

Guys and Gals,
I ordered the FV15HP (550W) Monday and it should be here sometime this week. I cannot find a manual on Rythmik website, so I start here with a few set up questions. My dedicated theater room is ~ 2700 cubic feet, the sub will be sitting on carpet between my front L/R ~ 10ft from my listening position. I will be using a Y subwoofer cable to connect the sub to my Denon 3312 Audessey MultiXT receiver. I am upgrading to this FV15hp from Hsu vtf2.3. With my Hsu, all I had to do was connect my Y sub cable to my Denon LFE out, leave phase at 0, turn off sub cross over, adjust gain on sub so that Auddesey set the sub to close to 0db. It seems that there are a lot more options with the FV15hp. Here are what I am planning to do to set it up once the sub is here. Please advise. Thanks.
1. Connect my Y sub cable to the FV15hp L/R LFE in.
2. Set power to Auto
3. PEQ= OFF
4. Phase = 0 (to start out with), crossover=120hz
5. Set sub volume/gain to ~25%
6. Low pass slope= AVR/12, Runble filter ON/2 (2 ports open I am planning to use), extension filter frequency =14 with Low damping. These settings are the one I need help with. Not quite understand them.
7. Run Audessey set up from my Denon reveiver to have sub trim close to zero.
8. Enjoy.
Am I missing something or is there something wrong with what I am going to do?
Thanks all.

The guides can be found at http://www.rythmikaudio.com/amplifiers.html

When I got my FV15HP and asked about the settings I was told
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brocken_5110 View Post

These are the recommended settings from the Rythmic forums at the Ascend Acoustics website:
The recommended initial setting with HT:
0) Low pass switch set to EXT/12 (not 80Hz/24).
1) power voltage set to 110-120v (for US, Canada, Mexico)
2) PEQ (Parametric EQ) set to Off
3) PEQ Gain doesn't matter with PEQ set to Off
4) PEQ Bandwidth doesn't matter with PEQ set to Off
5) PEQ Frequency doesn't matter with PEQ set to Off
6) Delay adjustment set to 0 (will be adjusted from HT receiver).
7) Crossover adjustment set to max first (then gradually dial down for best integration).
8) Level at 12 o'clock to begin with. Gradually move it higher to balance sub with front speakers.
9) Extension filter switch: 14Hz
10) Damping switch: high.
9, 10 can trade off max extension vs max output. If one really likes to play loud, he needs to set to 28Hz/low damping.
Listen and be happy.

Enjoy the new sub, I sure love mine.
Edited by dstew100 - 10/10/12 at 5:39pm
post #7140 of 15200
Actually the guide for the FV15HP is at

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/download/A370PEQ3_vented_quickguide.pdf

I'm only seeing the sealed versions of the amps on the amp page.
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