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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 253

post #7561 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post

Smigro,
Sorry I am late, I had a hum coming from both my amps on my FV15HP's, it turned out it was a kitchen light on a different circuit in the house causing the issue. I narrowed it down to dc offset and bought an Emotiva CMX-2 and it removed the dc offset from the line.

Thanks for the info. Someone else had mentioned that device earlier and I may have to look into that f the replacement amp Brian is sending out does not work. It is just baffling me that when I unplug it during the day and then plug it in at night I have no issues for 5-6 hours I use, but when I go to bed and wake up in the morning it is back again.

For example this morning when i woke up i heard the humming noise and unplugged the sub from the wall. i just got hme and plugged it back in and i heard a faint hum for a second as was plugging it in but it is not humming as i sit here watchng tv typing this. I really wish I knew how to test for this DC offset issue so I could narrow it down.

To add to this also, I can never seem to get this humming to go away. Whether I am looking in the rights spots or not I am not sure,but from what I have tried I cannot make it go away.
Edited by Smigro - 12/17/12 at 3:07pm
post #7562 of 15160
The two outlet Emotiva unit is on sale right now for $75, and the six outlet is $100.
post #7563 of 15160
I am not going to lie, Smigro's experience has me a little nervous...

Any of you guys running a Great Gamma under your FV15HP?
post #7564 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by K5/SS View Post

I am not going to lie, Smigro's experience has me a little nervous...
Any of you guys running a Great Gamma under your FV15HP?

Don't look for the bad, how many other posts are in this thread that are positive.

I have Dual FV15HPs and the only issue I had was DC Offset caused by a light in my house, I have a feeling that is what Smigros issue is.
post #7565 of 15160
Older neighborhoods with old power distribution systems are more likely to have a DC offset than newer ones. I've heard of a DC offsets that come and go depending upon what a neighbor has turned on.
post #7566 of 15160
Good timing on the hum issues. I just got my FV15HP last week and it is singing the 60hz tune. The powered subs in my Def Techs were humming before I got the Rythmik so there is nothing wrong with the sub. I thought I would get rid of the hum tonight when I unplugged all 3 Def Tech subs (LCR all have built in subs). But things kept humming along. Unplugging the FV15HP makes the hum stop but is not a good option. I've tried everything I could think of to get rid of the hum (before I got the Rhythmik). I use a Panamax M5300-EX surge/line conditioner and plugged everything into it. It has a "wiring OK" light that is normal. I plugged the subs into a different socket than the receiver. I even bought a Humbuster(?) plug which was supposed to get rid of ground loop problems. I tried a cheater plug (just for temporary test). I unplugged everything I could think of that might be causing it (lights, etc). What does the Emotiva line conditioner do that is different from anything else?

Also, for those stupid enough or desperate enough to move this by yourself (like I did), this process worked very well.
1- Roll entire double box upside down,
2- open outer box with cardboard flaps flared out,
3- rollover so everything is upright and remove outer box,
4- open inner box (should be the top), Take top foam insert off, cut tape that seals the clear plastic wrap, slide plastic wrap down a little over the sub, replace rectangular foam insert.
5- roll over onto a blanket. Sub will be upside down still nestled in the rectangle foam insert.
6- While upside down, put on whatever feet or felt you want to use,
7- slide over to almost where you want it,
8- slowly roll the sub over so it is sitting in the floor where you want it (**I have hardwood floors, so I put a towel down when I rolled it over so it wouldn't mar the floor or the edge of the sub, used felt so I can slide it around a little).




Edited by mtwhickory - 12/17/12 at 6:54pm
post #7567 of 15160
I will be tackling the sub by myself, thanks of the write-up. Mine will be right behind my Christmas tree also, a little worried about my ornaments:)
post #7568 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeBiker View Post

Older neighborhoods with old power distribution systems are more likely to have a DC offset than newer ones. I've heard of a DC offsets that come and go depending upon what a neighbor has turned on.

I forgot to mention that. My house was built in 1973. Also, my Def Techs did not always hum. They started a couple of months ago. The only change I can think of is I sold my Onkyo TX-NR609 and got a TX-NR3007. I don't think anything hummed immediately after the receiver switch, but it may have. I do not have another sub or amp to swap with the TX-NR3007 for comparison.
post #7569 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by K5/SS View Post

I will be tackling the sub by myself, thanks of the write-up. Mine will be right behind my Christmas tree also, a little worried about my ornaments:)

It was a good bit bigger than I thought it would be and I had to move the tree to get the sub in position. I ended up turning it sideways (different from pic) so it didn't stick out as far forward and gave the line level input wires more room. After the Christmas tree is gone, I will move the entire rack/TV over to the left more which is natural center.
post #7570 of 15160
Another strange aspect of my hum problem is it goes away sometimes for no apparent reason. I checked the refrigerator and even the central heat/AC as they come one and off on their own but neither is the culprit. Did someone say earlier that intermittent hum means it is not a ground loop problem? I went ahead and ordered the Emotiva CMX-6. If it helps it is well worth it. If not, it is still a good price. Any other ideas? Is this something an electrician can find and fix or do they steer clear of these problems? Is there any reason not to use more than one line conditioner. Though the Panamax is not the best conditioner on the market, they do have an excellent warranty and track record. I sold them for 7 years and have been impressed with their long-term warranty follow through. I thought I could run the Panamax off the wall socket and then plug the Emotiva CMX-6 into the Panamax then the equipment into the Emotiva. Sounds goofy but if it gets rid of the hum I have no problems with it.
Edited by mtwhickory - 12/17/12 at 10:50pm
post #7571 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtwhickory View Post

Another strange aspect of my hum problem is it goes away sometimes for no apparent reason. I checked the refrigerator and even the central heat/AC as they come one and off on their own but neither is the culprit. Did someone say earlier that intermittent hum means it is not a ground loop problem? I went ahead and ordered the Emotiva CMX-6. If it helps it is well worth it. If not, it is still a good price. Any other ideas? Is this something an electrician can find and fix or do they steer clear of these problems?

Do you get the hum from amps or the sub? Do you get the hum with only the power cord plugged in, or with the rca cable plugged in?
post #7572 of 15160
^^^
This is a very important clue. If the hum noise is a mechanical hum from the amp's transformer, it is most likely caused by DC. If the mechanical hum is fainted and acceptable, but the hum from the woofer is loud, then it is a ground loop issue. Ed (Smigo) asked why his previous sub didn't hum (and therefore this is perceived as a new problem) is because subs with switching power supply does not have a power transformer in it. So one may ask what is the pros and cons of having a transformer based power supply vs having a switching power power supply. Transformer-based power supply is actually more expensive, but has far less problem in that part. The switching power supply has more electrical components and therefore has a bit higher failure rate in the power supply section of the circuit.

BTW, different houses have different susceptibility to this DC problem. The wall power wiring starts from circuit breakers. So let us assume the power brought to our house is "ideal", then the DC problem should be only confined to "particular branch". (This is also the same principle that motivates biwiring speakers, that is, minimize the current draw interaction between different branches of wires). But if there are more households in your area, or the house is built long time ago, the power may fluctuate more. This is the first layer of the onion. Then there is the wire gauge used in the wall wiring and how it is done. It the component causing DC component is plugged into the very last outlet, it willl affect all the other outlet on the upstream to circuit breaker. If it is instead plugged into the very first outlet, its impact is far less. Heavy gauge in wall wiring (12, vs 14, vs 16 gauge) also reduces the susceptibility.
Edited by Rythmik - 12/18/12 at 10:12am
post #7573 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post

Don't look for the bad, how many other posts are in this thread that are positive.
I have Dual FV15HPs and the only issue I had was DC Offset caused by a light in my house, I have a feeling that is what Smigros issue is.

I have a feeling this is my issue also. I was getting intermittent hums last night and tried pinpointing in the house but with no luck. I am going to get either the Emotiva CMX-2 or CMX-6 and see what happens. I figure worst case scenario if it does not do anything I can just send it back and get a refund.

It looks like they have in stock right now (according to Amazon who says there are 15 left in stock) so I will be placing my order this afternoon for one. The CMX-2 is probably all I need, but I figure for an extra $25 why not get the CMX-6 and have a couple extra outlets for future proofing.
post #7574 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeBiker View Post

Older neighborhoods with old power distribution systems are more likely to have a DC offset than newer ones. I've heard of a DC offsets that come and go depending upon what a neighbor has turned on.

I do know my parents house is from the 40's so I am hoping this is the issue and one of the Emotiva devices will mitigate it.
post #7575 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtwhickory View Post

Another strange aspect of my hum problem is it goes away sometimes for no apparent reason. I checked the refrigerator and even the central heat/AC as they come one and off on their own but neither is the culprit. Did someone say earlier that intermittent hum means it is not a ground loop problem? I went ahead and ordered the Emotiva CMX-6. If it helps it is well worth it. If not, it is still a good price. Any other ideas? Is this something an electrician can find and fix or do they steer clear of these problems? Is there any reason not to use more than one line conditioner. Though the Panamax is not the best conditioner on the market, they do have an excellent warranty and track record. I sold them for 7 years and have been impressed with their long-term warranty follow through. I thought I could run the Panamax off the wall socket and then plug the Emotiva CMX-6 into the Panamax then the equipment into the Emotiva. Sounds goofy but if it gets rid of the hum I have no problems with it.

I have heard that you should not plug the CMX into the Panamax but the other way around...plug your Panamax into the CMX. I was reading a thread where a guy said he plugged the CMX into his power conditioner and still had the hum but when he plugged the power conditioner into the CMX it went away. As long as the amp draw is around 15A total you will be fine plugging the power conditioner in...AFAIK. I plan on doing this when I get mine.
post #7576 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

^^^
This is a very important clue. If the hum noise is a mechanical hum from the amp's transformer, it is most likely caused by DC. If the mechanical hum is fainted and acceptable, but the hum from the woofer is loud, then it is a ground loop issue. Ed (Smigo) asked why his previous sub didn't hum (and therefore this is perceived as a new problem) is because subs with switching power supply does not have a power transformer in it. So one may ask what is the pros and cons of having a transformer based power supply vs having a switching power power supply. Transformer-based power supply is actually more expensive, but has far less problem in that part. The switching power supply has more electrical components and therefore has a bit higher failure rate in the power supply section of the circuit.
BTW, different houses have different susceptibility to this DC problem. The wall power wiring starts from circuit breakers. So let us assume the power brought to our house is "ideal", then the DC problem should be only confined to "particular branch". (This is also the same principle that the motivates biwiring speakers, that is, minimize the current draw interaction between different branches of wires). But if there are more households in your area, or the house is built long time ago, the power may fluctuate more. This is the first layer of the onion. Then there is the wire gauge used in the wall wiring and how it is done. It the component causing DC component is plugged into the very last outlet, it willl affect all the other outlet on the upstream to circuit breaker. If it is instead plugged into the very first outlet, its impact is far less. Heavy gauge in wall wiring (12, vs 14, vs 16 gauge) also reduces the susceptibility.

One thing I can say in talking to my step dad is that the wiring on the second floor of our house is still the old style knob and tube wiring. I am no electrician so I do not know if there is any relevancy here, but my thinking is with a wiring style this old it COULD be one of the culprits of the humming that intermittently comes from the sub amp on my FV15HP.

The wiring in the basement and first floor have pretty much been redone when we re-did the breaker panel from the old glass type screw in fuses to a regular breaker panel, but the some parts of the first floor and all of the second floor were not done. Old ass house with all plaster walls have forced them to hold of ripping the house apart to re-wire it.

I used to have the basement space for me, but it got flooded out by the hurricane last year and we are still trying to refinish everything again. This is why I am stuck in a second floor bedroom with old wiring.

I am going to give the Emotiva CMX-2 or CMX-6 a shot and see what happens with the buzzing noise from the amp.
post #7577 of 15160
Smigro,

Don't take my word for it but I don't believe the 6 cures the dc offset, I thought I remembered a debate about that on the emotiva forums about that issue. I think on the website for each product, only the cmx2 says anything about dc offset.

I just looked and the 6 says nothing about dc offset in any of the description, whereas the 2 does.

Sent from my Beans Note 2
post #7578 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post

Smigro,
Don't take my word for it but I don't believe the 6 cures the dc offset, I thought I remembered a debate about that on the emotiva forums about that issue. I think on the website for each product, only the cmx2 says anything about dc offset.
I just looked and the 6 says nothing about dc offset in any of the description, whereas the 2 does.
Sent from my Beans Note 2

Thank you for pointing that out. I must have missed that in when I was looking at them on their site. Pretty weird that they do not do the same thing, but at least I found out before I purchased. biggrin.gif

The two will do what I need it to anyway. I was thinking of plugging the sub into one outlet and my Raxxess PD-800 that has all of my other gear hooked up to it into the other.
post #7579 of 15160
Same here, I use my sub exclusively for 2 channel only, The small difference in price of the F12 Kit and F15 Kit was a no brainer, I went with the F15 In my small space the F12 would have been more than enough. Lately I have been watching HD movies via my system using a laptop and the kick from the F15 was wicked, Glad I went with the F15.

BTW... I always said in my mind that I would never go HT, this was for the last 10 years or so... well you never know wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipbyrd View Post

Rythmik F12 or F12G or F15?
My listening area is about 3300 cubic feet. I have mains that extend nicely down to nearly 40 Hz. I am exclusively two channel and have no constraints on size or placement and intend to purchase two subs.
All the subs mentioned are within my budget, but I am wondering if any one of them shines especially bright for two channel use?
Would the 12" be better? Tighter? Faster? Is paper or aluminum best?
Thanks so much for the help,
Chip
post #7580 of 15160
At the risk of sounding like a true noob, what should I be plugging the sub into (power)? I'm sure I will get a few different answers but thats what the forums are for cool.gif/ Lastly, is it "bad" to plug it directly to a wall outlet and by bad I mean potentially harmful to the unit.
post #7581 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1080pee View Post

At the risk of sounding like a true noob, what should I be plugging the sub into (power)?.
The wall socket. If you're concerned about voltage surges use an inexpensive surge protector, unless Rythmik confirms that the amp has one inside. Do not consider a 'power conditioner', snake oil they be.
post #7582 of 15160
Did you guys have to sign for the sub or will the delivery guys just leave it on your porch? It looks like I will have to go in to work tomorrow after all:( I would hate to miss the delivery and have to wait another day for it, it won't fit in my sedan. I live down a private road and I have a covered porch, I am hoping they just leave it..
Edited by K5/SS - 12/18/12 at 10:39pm
post #7583 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by K5/SS View Post

Did you guys have to sign for the sub or will the delivery guys jus leave it on your porch? It looks like I will have to go in to work tomorrow after all:( I would hate to miss the delivery and have to wait another day for it, it won't fit in my sedan. I live down a private road and I have a covered porch.

I don't own a Rythmik sub but for something that costs that much, I'm pretty sure they are going to require a signature. Also, since the sub boxes tend to come all labeled as a aub, you would not just want them to leave it unattended.
post #7584 of 15160
If you used the Rythmik online order form you had to click on whether or not the UPS driver would be required to get a signature, which costs a few bucks. I chose to require a signature, 'cause I trust UPS drivers about as much as I do my ex-wife.
post #7585 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post

If you used the Rythmik online order form you had to click on whether or not the UPS driver would be required to get a signature, which costs a few bucks. I chose to require a signature, 'cause I trust UPS drivers about as much as I do my ex-wife.

lol

That is why I had mine delivered to my work.
post #7586 of 15160
Well I order myself an Emotiva CMX-2 yesterday and should have it in my hands tomorrow. Brian also sent me out a new amp just in case after testing there is an actual defect with the amp. So tomorrow I plan on plugging in the CMX-2 and seeing what it does. If it eliminates the hum (which I think it will) then I will just be sending the amp back to Brian. I actually feel bad he sent it out because I was worried about the amp being defective before I really understood this whole thing about DC offset.

I will report back with how it works out for me and hopefully have some pics (although not the best) up for you guys. I will say though I did watch The Dark Knight Rises last night was very impressed. This is my first real subwoofer so I have never had that real feeling of chest pumping bass and man it is awesome.

At this point I am really glad that I went with Rythmik. Brian has helped a lot through PM's with me about my buzzing issue and the fact that he sent out an amp just to ease my mind was just something you see everyday. Stand up guy, stand up company and really good product to boot.
post #7587 of 15160
Shipping options

Our shipping options are:
1) signature required (adult signature)
2) signature waived
3) no option specified (if the address is residential, then it is up to UPS to determine if it is safe to leave the package)

Commercial address is exception to all of above. UPS always needs signature for commerical address delievery.
post #7588 of 15160
I'm wondering what your 2013 subwoofer line up will look like? Will things stay the same for the F12, F12g, F15? We all know the F25 will change along with the FV12. I heard something about a LV12? Will the "hp" models stay or be upgraded? Will you be dropping any models?

confused.gif
post #7589 of 15160
Well, things can change.

Back on page 250, post 7485, I said small is good and I would sell my 12” (kit built) and D15SE downward facing Rythmiks, set up as front wall stereo pair, for WAF aesthetic reasons, and order 2 F12's. I've decided to keep them and here is why.

I mentioned a lot of this thread is about sub woofer horsepower- should I get an F15 vs F12 and so on. But another part of this thread is the universally accepted fact that 2 sub woofers are better than 1 (irrespective of whether front wall stereo pair or placed as 2 monos) because when placed properly, they smooth out room response not only at focal position but across the room.

This is exactly what happened to me- I took the smaller 12” and put it behind and to the left of my rear wall listening and movie watching chair (only location available on back wall, about a third of the way in from left corner) and by using REW measurement determined that the right front corner was the best complimentary location for the D15SE. Result is much better even response for both subs versus the previous stereo front wall set-up (each sub was ¼ of the way in from front corners). Response is also much better in my secondary side wall couch listening position.

And it gets better. With 12” sub just behind my listening chair, where I sit to watch movies, the impact because of its proximity is now visceral. Not what I experienced before even with the volume turned higher. Put a Rythmik sub close to your chair if you want to be literally moved!

I have a McIntosh MX150 processor with Lyngdorf RoomPerfect room correction and I cannot localize either sub at 80HZ crossover- it all seems to come from the front.

It really works but IMO, you must be able to measure (REW!) to get the initial positions without pulling your hair out and then run room correction.

I want to add Brian was great with PM's and phone calls with guidance to help me overcome my “what do I do next” angst. I wouldn't do business with anyone else.

Peter Orrick
Vero Beach, FL
post #7590 of 15160
DC OFFSET NOTICE!!!! CMX2 and CMX6

The CMX 6 does not remove DC offset!! Only the CMX2 is designed to clean DC offset.
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