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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 260

post #7771 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

Please ignore those wires, trash, shoes, poor photography use of flash making the tv image horrible, and further gear movement that needs to be done rolleyes.gif
Focus on the Rythmiks smile.gif

dominguez1, I'm not ready to toy with this yet but I may take a stab into incorporating a sealed sub as a Geddes style helper (FR flattening) sub in my system. Don't you have sealed and ported mix? What is your approach to getting the phase right / getting them playing nicely together? Any recommended reading for if I go down that path? I do have measurement gear, REW, and a minidsp.

Looking good!!! UPS better get their act together and drop off mine tomorrow else I'm coming over to your house! tongue.gif
post #7772 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post

Looking good!!! UPS better get their act together and drop off mine tomorrow else I'm coming over to your house! tongue.gif

Bring it, The system is sounding schweeeeet! VaBeach ain't that far from you.

Wife came down stairs now that I am at -20. She said everything was shaking up there, bed rumbling (nice), and she did not need me to rerun the immortals scene cuz she heard it just fine up there.
post #7773 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

Bring it, The system is sounding schweeeeet! VaBeach ain't that far from you.
Wife came down stairs now that I am at -20. She said everything was shaking up there, bed rumbling (nice), and she did not need me to rerun the immortals scene cuz she heard it just fine up there.

Well that's one way to keep the Mrs. happy biggrin.gif Perhaps I can use that as a WAF incentive for my 2nd E15 purchase later this year... tongue.gif

VA Beach is probably way more happening than Cincinnati... zzzzzz
post #7774 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post


Please ignore those wires, trash, shoes, poor photography use of flash making the tv image horrible, and further gear movement that needs to be done rolleyes.gif
Focus on the Rythmiks smile.gif

dominguez1, I'm not ready to toy with this yet but I may take a stab into incorporating a sealed sub as a Geddes style helper (FR flattening) sub in my system. Don't you have sealed and ported mix? What is your approach to getting the phase right / getting them playing nicely together? Any recommended reading for if I go down that path? I do have measurement gear, REW, and a minidsp.

Very nice!

 

Yes, I've got sealed up front and ported in the rear. I don't know of any recommending reading unfortunately. What you'll need is to see your FR in real time (REW) and be able to EQ your ported and sealed independently of one another. Sames goes with Phase.

 

If you have those, then you should be able to get them to play nice. When you're ready, PM me or start a thread. smile.gif

post #7775 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post


VA Beach is probably way more happening than Cincinnati... zzzzzz

Hey...I resemble that remark! biggrin.gif Have to agree though...

post #7776 of 15139
Dstew,
What is the first thing you notice by adding the second one? Thanks.
post #7777 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

Dstew,
What is the first thing you notice by adding the second one? Thanks.

1st thing? Wow dual FV15HP's look seksy cool.gif but I suppose you are asking about the movies experience.

Short answer
1) more tactile feel
2) more dynamic impacts that jump at you
3) flatter frequency response (need to measure, optimize crossover range, and experiment more)

Rambling long answer
So I've been through 2.5 hours of movies now with some heavy hitter scenes early then I toned back to lower listening levels. I'm fairly confident the frequency response is flatter, but I need to measure to verify. It definitely sounds more even.

The biggest thing in my mind right now is more impact (both dynamic and tactile). I stopped half way through the last movie, broke the SPL meter out, and rechecked levels. Although I was 5db hot during the heavy hitters, at this point I had toned it back to 2db hot. SPL meter verified that was where I was at. I couldn't believe it. I took the subs down to level with the mains and kept watching. The gun shot's are more dynamic and I feel it more even at this lower level (I think I was at -22 and subs level with mains). It just jumps at you more. All very tight, as usual with the Rythmik. I hope what I'm describing doesn't sound like I mean boomy, it's not like that at all.

As far as music, I listened to about 30 min of music, but that was the first stuff up and I was really just checking if everything playing right. Both subs playing, Audyssey did a reasonable job, I can go up and down and its reasonable, rock, check, classical, check, bone thugs, check. I need to listen to more music to really evaluate that. This was more of a system test.

ReEdit: The SPL meter verified I was not playing the sub louder, it just has more impact and feel.
Edited by dstew100 - 1/3/13 at 5:57pm
post #7778 of 15139
^^
Thanks. Glad to hear. Anything else is falling off beside your pictures? Lol
post #7779 of 15139
Congrats on those duals! Looks awesome man.

I just got mine tonight. OMG so thats what good bass is like?!!!

Now to save for the second one next year, i cant wait to even it out with duals smile.gif
post #7780 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puredr1ve View Post

Congrats on those duals! Looks awesome man.
I just got mine tonight. OMG so thats what good bass is like?!!!
Now to save for the second one next year, i cant wait to even it out with duals smile.gif

Awesome, I was so blown away with how big of a step up my first Rythmik was over my prior Velodyne that I thought was doing a commendable job. The Rythmik not only stomped it, it sounded soooo much tighter and cleaner while going deeper and louder. That was a bigger jump than going to the duals for me. That sub is just incredible isn't it? Enjoy it.
post #7781 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puredr1ve View Post

Congrats on those duals! Looks awesome man.
I just got mine tonight. OMG so thats what good bass is like?!!!
Now to save for the second one next year, i cant wait to even it out with duals smile.gif

That was my exact impression and I also will be saving to add a second next year so I can use them as stands for my eD[c]12's.
post #7782 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smigro View Post

That was my exact impression and I also will be saving to add a second next year so I can use them as stands for my eD[c]12's.

You may find those are not the best locations for FR. I have about 4 different setups I want to try but after the wife saw them both up front, I don't think she's going to let me move them around. Terrible news, I may need a third eek.gif

Kidding for now, I just can't believe how much impact I am getting, I keep reeling back the subs to flat with the mains and turning it down and it's just awesome. I just can't believe how dynamic and tactile duals are, I guess I was really just expecting the better FR. I knew I'd get 3-6 dbs more SPL but considering I usually had more than that left in the tank on the single and would run the single at least that much hot, there's definitely something else going on here. May be able to get the mic out later today or tomorrow.

Did the War of the Worlds pod emergence scene from blueray, yatzee!!!
post #7783 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

You may find those are not the best locations for FR. I have about 4 different setups I want to try but after the wife saw them both up front, I don't think she's going to let me move them around. Terrible news, I may need a third eek.gif
Kidding for now, I just can't believe how much impact I am getting, I keep reeling back the subs to flat with the mains and turning it down and it's just awesome. I just can't believe how dynamic and tactile duals are, I guess I was really just expecting the better FR. I knew I'd get 3-6 dbs more SPL but considering I usually had more than that left in the tank on the single and would run the single at least that much hot, there's definitely something else going on here. May be able to get the mic out later today or tomorrow.
Did the War of the Worlds pod emergence scene from blueray, yatzee!!!

Stop bragging already, I'm experiencing enough anguish as it is biggrin.gif

I don't know what UPS is doing over in TX, but they've "rescheduled" my delivery from the 4th to the 8th... why me? rolleyes.gif

Your comments have been great.... I have been considering running 2x E15's, but thought I could live with one (well I could once it actually arrives). I'll most likely be running a very similar setup to yours! I want that kick-to-the-liver feeling...
post #7784 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post

Stop bragging already,

Sharring, bragging, what a delicate line.
OMG this sounds AWESOME
SCHWEETSCHWEETSCHWEETSCHWEETSCHWEETSCHWEETSCHWEETSCHWEETSCHWEETSCHWEETSCHWEETSCHWEETSCHWEETSCHWEETSCHWEETSCHWEETSCHWEETSCHWEETSCHWEETSCHWEET

tongue.gif

sorry, I just couldn't resist. Thanks fellas for being my happy with Rythmik support group.
post #7785 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post

I don't know what UPS is doing over in TX, but they've "rescheduled" my delivery from the 4th to the 8th... why me? rolleyes.gif

Ouch, sorry to hear that, hang in there. UPS is evil, Rythmik is good. You're going to love it.

Sincerely,
Your Rythmik support group
post #7786 of 15139
Hey guys,

Just added a second 15" sealed Rythmik sub to my setup! I just got done running some REW sweeps and here are the results.

The green line is the sweep ran through my Parasound 2100 preamp with HT bypass (L&R mains playing)
The red line is sweeps taken through my Yamaha receiver (L&R mains playing)
1/12 smoothing



For whatever reason I cannot get rid of that huge 120hz dip on the 2100, thoughts? I tried messing with the preamps sub XO with not much luck, it only got worse. The 2100 has the mains crossed over at 80hz with the sub XO around 90hz. The yamahas response is very good in my opinion. The yamaha has the mains crossed at 100hz which gave me a much flatter response around the XO point.

The duals so far smoothed out my room a bit (not as much as I had hoped). I did get away with only using one EQ setting on my BFD compared to 4 before. The sheer amount of extra output and impact was a pleasant surprise! I had my sights set on just a bit more headroom, but I gained alot there and things sound awesome so far!
Both subs are located just outside my main L&R's and are the exact same distance to my LP.
Their phase settings both at 0, High dampng, 14hz, no rumble filter etc.

dual rythmiks.jpg 151k .jpg file
post #7787 of 15139
Hi, I was thinking about getting either an F12 or an F15, but I have 2 questions.

1: Normally, ported versions have lower (better) bass than sealed versions, but looking at the F12 vs FV12...

F12
ioO3bZCiVjTDE.jpg

FV12
iqYqH5uYITaTF.jpg

It seems the sealed is the better one?

2: F12 vs F15, I'm only seeing a slight increase in the upper part?

F12
ioO3bZCiVjTDE.jpg

F15
iJff4J88IC6yb.jpg
post #7788 of 15139
1. You have it backwards. Ported designs usually have greater output over the port frequency, then faster roll-off below compared to a sealed design. Sealed designs thus usually have more extended FR on the low end. Sealed designs usually have lower distortion than ported, but the servo in Rythmik designs makes their performance almost identical (except for the FR, which is in the physics of the two designs).

2. The F12 and F15 are almost identical in FR; the F15 has a little more output. Note also the newer amps include a setting for AVRs that extends the FR to ~160 Hz (I think thatis the upper end; it is well above the 80 Hz low-pass filter setting in your plots).

There is a post in this thread comparing relative output among the various models.

HTH - Don
post #7789 of 15139
Thanks for the correction. I was going by the SVS PB1000 and SB1000, the ported being listed as 19-270 and the sealed being listed as 24-260.

Seeing as my room is the smallest bedroom in the house...


Stuff like the High Power versions won't be necessary, and since the F15 is 150% of the price of the F12 but not 150% the performance, I think the F12 is the perfect sub for me.

Something that confuses me though, "The new A370PEQ2 amplifier, now shipped standard with F12, has an additional low pass filter setting --LFE. It extends the upper end -3db extension to 200hz."


So it seems the sub would be good from 14hz all the way to 200hz, but the crossover switch goes from 20 to 80? Can someone give me a better understanding of this image?


And do AVR's have their own idea when to crossover... Is it possible to let the sub choose rather than the AVR?

That reminds me, I'll need to buy an AVR/amp for my satellites. I'm hoping to use the ones from my current system, a Z5500. The sats are listed as 63 watts x4 + 69 watts for the center, but I hear it's more realistically around 15 watts per speaker? What would be the best (yet cheap) amp/avr that can manage the Z5500's sats, that can also output an unfiltered LFE channel to a sub?
post #7790 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ak Gara View Post

So it seems the sub would be good from 14hz all the way to 200hz, but the crossover switch goes from 20 to 80? Can someone give me a better understanding of this image?
The picture that you've posted is PEQ control (to tame room modes). Those knobs are inoperative if PEQ is OFF.
You should be looking at this:

Besides that, the Frequency Response is different between LINE IN and LFE IN connection...which I don't understand very well. Why is it design that way? A person who need phase control is stuck with LINE IN connection which has much restricted frequency response (only 90Hz for FV15HP). For LFE IN, it goes all the way to 200Hz, but the crossover knob goes up to 120Hz. What happens to the 120Hz-200Hz region? Can somebody clarify this, please?
Edited by Skylinestar - 1/5/13 at 7:11am
post #7791 of 15139
Anyone have any idea when the redesigned FV12 will be coming out? Has there been any updates?
post #7792 of 15139
Enrico informed me yesterday, the FV12 will be available by the end of the month.

He also mentioned the F25 will be available in 6-8 weeks.
post #7793 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

For LFE IN, it goes all the way to 200Hz, but the crossover knob goes up to 120Hz. What happens to the 120Hz-200Hz region? Can somebody clarify this, please?

Thanks for articulating my confusion better than I did. smile.gif
post #7794 of 15139
LFE in does not go through the crossover; it is provided by the AVR (as is phase etc.)
post #7795 of 15139
Is the F25 Direct Servo subwoofer in production? When will it be available and what can we expect for price?
I am looking at the F15HP, but I am not sure if it will be enough for my 3500 cubic foot room. I am not sure if I want to go with the FV15HP, I may be looking at other subs...

This is what I have going on, I am open to suggestions.

Budget around $1,400 or less
75% movies/TV 25% music
I don't have room for 2 subs at this point
Looks do have a small part in the decision making
I currently have an A-2 300, which doesn't cut the mustard for music.
I want to be able to feel the punch in my music (Hard rock) and be able to play the lows when watching movies without worrying about damaging the sub
I don't watch movies at reference levels but I do occasionally for music
It will be connected to an Onkyo TX-NR 809 with Klipsch Reference surround (RF 82 towers in the front)

Room details
About 3500 cubic ft (not a square room)
4 walls and one door opening (no door)
2 walls are brick the other 2 are glass (floor to ceiling windows)
Tile floor
Tongue and groove ceiling
No room correcting sound treatments, most likely never will be in this room
post #7796 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

LFE in does not go through the crossover; it is provided by the AVR (as is phase etc.)
Oh yes...it was clearly stated in the amp guide. tongue.gif

Quote from the amp guide:
Quote:
Line Level inputs
Amplifier accepts both line level and high level (or speaker level) inputs. One should use line level inputs whenever possible, except where very long interconnects leads to noise problems. Then one might consider our models with XLR inputs or using high level inputs. For sub output from HT receiver/processor, one can use either of the two (R+L) line level inputs with AVR/12 LOW PASS switch setting, or just LFE IN. When using LFE IN, phase control and crossover control have no function. The trade-off between using LFE IN and LINE IN (with AVR/12 LPF switch position) is the perceived background noise level.
What is not mention in the guide is the frequency response difference. For FV15HP, it's 90Hz on LINE IN, 200Hz on LFE IN (as written in the specs). If we use the LINE IN and have the crossover set at 120Hz, what happen to the 90Hz to 120Hz region? Are we stuck at 90Hz?
post #7797 of 15139
I really am no expert and don't have any measurement tools but after reading a while I just made a few setting changes to my FV15HP.... Unplugged the LFE and used a splitter to the line in inputs, removed the port plug and changed the crossover setting on my AVR to 100hz. Let me tell you this, the improvements in my room are unbelievable!

Watching the new Batman and had to remove two pieces of art off the walls because I thought this sub was going to knock them off! My tiny house (1000SF) is shaking like crazy. My Harmony 1100 is sitting on the couch next to me 12ft away and the light keeps turning on during heavy bass scenes. I am truly amazed by the quality output this monster is putting out and I have owned numerous high quality subwoofers.

All this and I am only 20 minutes into the movie. Now back to it.
post #7798 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by K5/SS View Post

I really am no expert and don't have any measurement tools but after reading a while I just made a few setting changes to my FV15HP.... Unplugged the LFE and used a splitter to the line in inputs, removed the port plug and changed the crossover setting on my AVR to 100hz. Let me tell you this, the improvements in my room are unbelievable!
Watching the new Batman and had to remove two pieces of art off the walls because I thought this sub was going to knock them off! My tiny house (1000SF) is shaking like crazy. My Harmony 1100 is sitting on the couch next to me 12ft away and the light keeps turning on during heavy bass scenes. I am truly amazed by the quality output this monster is putting out and I have owned numerous high quality subwoofers.
All this and I am only 20 minutes into the movie. Now back to it.
When you use the Y splitter and plug in to both the L+R inputs, you're getting 3dB boost (this is common to all subwoofers). Your bass is now 3dB hot. smile.gif
post #7799 of 15139
Also, LFE channel only plays sounds that's been recorded specifically for the LFE channel, if a scene of a movie or music does not have any LFE information, you won't hear any bass, where as using the Line In sends the entire audio signal to the subwoofer (minus the AV's cutoff freq)

I think. I don't have a proper sub yet. I still can't decide between a Rythmik or an SVS. Problem is, I just can't find any Rythmik's in the UK. Plus my Z5500 kicks out so much bass I can't imagine how these proper HT subs would be.
post #7800 of 15139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ak Gara View Post

Also, LFE channel only plays sounds that's been recorded specifically for the LFE channel, if a scene of a movie or music does not have any LFE information, you won't hear any bass, where as using the Line In sends the entire audio signal to the subwoofer (minus the AV's cutoff freq)
I think. I don't have a proper sub yet. I still can't decide between a Rythmik or an SVS. Problem is, I just can't find any Rythmik's in the UK. Plus my Z5500 kicks out so much bass I can't imagine how these proper HT subs would be.

Don't forget there is still bass in the other channels that can be directed to the sub through bass management biggrin.gif
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