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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 272

post #8131 of 15120
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody777 View Post

I'm having the same exact problem (same song, same issue) with my FV15HP.
Well glad it's not just me. I think it's trying to play much too low frequency with too much volume.
post #8132 of 15120
hey guys thinking of buying a fv15 hp. i currently have a rw12 and a denon 4520 will the two work well together or ditch the rw12
post #8133 of 15120
Dump it no doubt.
post #8134 of 15120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peen View Post

Dump it no doubt.
thanks lol will do
post #8135 of 15120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peen View Post

Well I tried running MCACC on low vs hi. Problem is it just sets the output about 3db too low and then I just have to raise it back up.

Running the Antimode 8033 on low first though doesn't seem to hurt.

But when I turn up the db's 3 on the sub the whole system sounds REALLY good. From now on I will do the setup on low damping and switch back and raise the volume a bit smile.gif

Way to go. You don't really have to stick to 0db setting. I enjoy the bass to be 3db hotter without a problem. Each roomEQ program behaves a bit differently.

The reproduction of bass frequency signal is not as straightforward as a regular 2 channel recording. The room boundary issue (at the recording site) is hard to capture with just with 2 mics and one or more ambience mics. To get the best signal to noise ratio, the mics are placed very close to the instruments. The signal captured in that fashion is no indication of the signal that would have been captured at the listening seat. So there is a wiggle room for adjustment.
post #8136 of 15120
LV12R start shipping next week

They are ready for shipping next week. It is basically same as previous FV12:

  1. Same driver
  2. Same enclosure size
  3. Same double flared 3-1/2" port

except
  1. Port is now moved to the back.
  2. The front grille now covers the entire baffle
  3. A new audiophile-grade Hypex module based class D amp rated the same 300WRMS with both LINE-IN and LFE input, 12/24db switch, and bass extension control. No speaker level inputs.

Here is the LV12R function quickguide and LV12R installation guide.

The MSRP is $599. For the first two months, we will offer $549 including 48 continental states shipping. Shipping to Hawaii and Alaska is extra.

It will take a bit for the entire web page to update. But purchase button will be updated first.


-
Edited by Rythmik - 1/31/13 at 7:42am
post #8137 of 15120
FYI: The link to the installation guide - http://www.rythmikaudio.com/download/LV12R_Installation_Guide.pdf - brings up a "page not found" error.
post #8138 of 15120
^^ fixed.
post #8139 of 15120
Awesome! Brian since I am local I will give you a call to coordinate a good time to stop by your shop and pick one of these up.
post #8140 of 15120
Thanks everybody for your help to date. I just ordered an F12. It should be here on Monday. Can't wait to get the 8 year old Sony (10"/100W) sub out of my recently upgraded (Onkyo 605/Klipsch Quintet to Marantz SR5007/Klipsch Reference Series) system. I'm like a little kid waiting for Christmas to get here smile.gif
post #8141 of 15120
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlundy57 View Post

Thanks everybody for your help to date. I just ordered an F12. It should be here on Monday. Can't wait to get the 8 year old Sony (10"/100W) sub out of my recently upgraded (Onkyo 605/Klipsch Quintet to Marantz SR5007/Klipsch Reference Series) system. I'm like a little kid waiting for Christmas to get here smile.gif

Congrats on the purchase. I love new toys. Please check back in and let us know what you think.
post #8142 of 15120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

LV12R start shipping next week

They are ready for shipping next week. It is basically same as previous FV12:

  1. Same driver
  2. Same enclosure size
  3. Same double flared 3-1/2" port

except
  1. Port is now moved to the back.
  2. The front grille now covers the entire baffle
  3. A new audiophile-grade Hypex module based class D amp rated the same 300WRMS with both LINE-IN and LFE input, 12/24db switch, and bass extension control. No speaker level inputs.

Here is the LV12R function quickguide and LV12R installation guide.

The MSRP is $599. For the first two months, we will offer $549 including 48 continental states shipping. Shipping to Hawaii and Alaska is extra.

It will take a bit for the entire web page to update. But purchase button will be updated first.


-

Brian,

I have been waiting for this model to show up. Please post the pics of the final product here, so that I can make a decision to place an order. I will PM you with schematics of my room, and would appreciate your advice regarding placement. Thanks, and congrats on reaching shipment stage!
post #8143 of 15120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peen View Post

Well glad it's not just me. I think it's trying to play much too low frequency with too much volume.

I'm not glad it's not just me... now I think we're both having problems eek.gif Everything I read about this sub tells me it should handle that song with ease. Brian sent me some test discs that I should finally get a chance to use this weekend.
post #8144 of 15120
Has there been anymore updates on the latest up coming version of the F25?
post #8145 of 15120
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlundy57 View Post

Thanks everybody for your help to date. I just ordered an F12. It should be here on Monday. Can't wait to get the 8 year old Sony (10"/100W) sub out of my recently upgraded (Onkyo 605/Klipsch Quintet to Marantz SR5007/Klipsch Reference Series) system. I'm like a little kid waiting for Christmas to get here smile.gif

That's great. I think everyone here loves that feeling too! Part of the reason why we're never finished upgrading tongue.gif

I have a 7 speaker Klipsch reference setup mated to my E15 and it sounds fantastic! You're going to be very pleased with the Rythmik! My E15 actually had a faulty amp (probably shipping damage), but Brian was on top of it, and he sent me a replacement amp which fixed me up. That guy takes great care of his customers.
post #8146 of 15120
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody777 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peen View Post

Well glad it's not just me. I think it's trying to play much too low frequency with too much volume.

I'm not glad it's not just me... now I think we're both having problems eek.gif Everything I read about this sub tells me it should handle that song with ease. Brian sent me some test discs that I should finally get a chance to use this weekend.

I keep meaning to find the song and play it. But just FYI it was part of the demo at the get together in PA last fall and my FV15HP played it in that configuration with flying colors.
post #8147 of 15120
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody777 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peen View Post

I have a question, I was trying the Bass I love you track with my F15. Settings are 14hz, hi damp, 80hz cross on avr, limiter off. It would flap and bottom super easy, not even playing loud. So I tried it with limiter on and it pretty much wouldn't even play any bass. Is this normal? Sub is leveled with other speakers so not running hot either.

I'm having the same exact problem (same song, same issue) with my FV15HP.

OK I just realized the track is on you tube so I played it through my BR's you tube app. Took the grills off to watch cone movement, played in stereo at -20, then -10. My subs are 3db hot. 14hz ext, Hi Damp, Line in cuz I thought I'd need phase but haven't touched it yet, AVR/12, 1-Port, Rumble off, Limiter On, power auto. I need to switch from line in to LFE and I found my minidsp so may start using that soon when I find some time to tweak. I found a post claiming the notes in that song are "36hz, 34hz, 33hz, 31hz, 17hz, and 7hz".

This track may be in need of a high pass filter which I may add with the minidsp.

I did not get bottoming out but there is that one repetitive inaudible 7Hz note that causes A LOT of cone movement. Right before the notes that hit hard/are audible. It happens a bit more extended then the repetitive note right after the quiet section about half way through and right at the end also. Frankly I was really impressed, but that super deep note is kinda scary. However it causes a lot of air moving around. I do feel it, just can't hear it, and I've got some room rattles that need to be addressed that were enjoying dancing to the song.

What's going on is that 7Hz note is below the port tune (14Hz) where the woofer no longer gets the pressure support from the box and begins flapping fairly uncontrolled (can someone provide the more technical explanation). That's when a ported design can bottom out and you begin to get in danger of port noise. I did not get any port noise at -10 with subs +3db hot, but I think if I kept going higher it could happen. It's just the nature of ported design and not a product specific issue. You get more output with the ported, but it has it's drawbacks too. I prefer the tactile ported nature and am going to experiment with a pretty steep high pass around 10 or 14 Hz.

Can't say whether your subs are having an issue but this definitely verified mine (one built last august, one built in December) are functioning properly.
Edited by dstew100 - 2/1/13 at 10:41am
post #8148 of 15120
Mine is a sealed F15 though.
post #8149 of 15120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peen View Post

Mine is a sealed F15 though.

7hz is not audible. When I play a 10hz tone in my play room where there are two doors on opposite side open to other two rooms, the only sound I can hear is the door faint rattling sound. In sealed subs, the excursion requirement is inversely proportional to frequency squared. In other words, 10hz will required 4 times the excursion of 20hz, and 7hz will require 9 times. In short, that makes the cone move a lot and yet you cannot hear much of it. I just bought my copy of "bass I love you" from Amazon.com. I read the reviews and all of them played that track on car audio. Car is very different in that it has this chamber effect which provides far more chamber gain (than room gain) and that makes playing that track more effective. One may ask, if we cannnot hear subsonic sound, why do we need our subs to play that low. I have explained before, the purpose is to faithfully capture the timing and correlation of the reverberation so that we can faithfully reproduce the sense of space in any recording.
post #8150 of 15120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skerlnik View Post

My E15 actually had a faulty amp (probably shipping damage), but Brian was on top of it, and he sent me a replacement amp which fixed me up. That guy takes great care of his customers.

That's really good to hear. I got that idea from other posts. Having problems isn't an issue, things happen. It's how you take care of them that matters. Now if it just wouldn't take 4 days to make the 7 1/2 hour trip from Austin ..... This is going to be a long weekend!
post #8151 of 15120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peen View Post

Mine is a sealed F15 though.

7hz is not audible. When I play a 10hz tone in my play room where there are two doors on opposite side open to other two rooms, the only sound I can hear is the door faint rattling sound. In sealed subs, the excursion requirement is inversely proportional to frequency squared. In other words, 10hz will required 4 times the excursion of 20hz, and 7hz will require 9 times. In short, that makes the cone move a lot and yet you cannot hear much of it. I just bought my copy of "bass I love you" from Amazon.com. I read the reviews and all of them played that track on car audio. Car is very different in that it has this chamber effect which provides far more chamber gain (than room gain) and that makes playing that track more effective. One may ask, if we cannnot hear subsonic sound, why do we need our subs to play that low. I have explained before, the purpose is to faithfully capture the timing and correlation of the reverberation so that we can faithfully reproduce the sense of space in any recording.

18000 watts on 10 15 inch woofers in a Honda civic impresses team Bass I Love You. How come Rythimk does not roll like that? Brian please don't answer.
post #8152 of 15120
Another thought on this... If the ported caused cone huge excursion 7Hz note was prevented. Think how loud I'd be happy to crank it... If I liked the song for anything other than a hardware test. Cut the 7Hz I do not hear, and I could take that song up to some very high levels comfortably.

EDIT: What I really mean is the sub is working so hard to play a note which is inaudible. Cut it off and you can play the rest loud, or apply many woofers and power to play the subsonic to an adequate level (should be sealed or LLT for dat). 14Hz tune is very deep IMO, but you have to work within those bounds if that is where your system is at.
Edited by dstew100 - 2/1/13 at 10:56pm
post #8153 of 15120
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

Another thought on this... If the ported caused cone huge excursion 7Hz note was prevented. Think how loud I'd be happy to crank it... If I liked the song for anything other than a hardware test. Cut the 7Hz I do not hear, and I could take that song up to some very high levels comfortably.

The advantage of servo is multi-fold. Low distortion seems to be very well-known. But less well known is the ability of having a very precise cone excursion control. I have published the excursion plots for the 1 port mode in low damping and high damping, respectively.




These two graphs are very important (no other nonservo subs can even provide plots like this). What they tells us is if there is any weak spot that can cause over-excursion. So if one wants to play loud in port mode, "low damping" is a must. The excursion will be well within reasonable control. At the time of FV15HP development, I did put in an extra rumble filter in 1 port mode (currently, there is no rumble filter, and the cone excursion control is via extension filter setting). But after listening test, I decided to go without it as it is the best compromise between SPL output and time domain response. My goal at that time was to make 1 port mode to have group delay as low as possible, and at the same time we can have one plate amp to use for both sealed and ported sub,



But it does not have to be that way. If there are enough customers what to be able to play that song, we can modify the rumble filter to add a third position that cuts off the cone excursion below 13hz. If we do this, the plate amp of sealed subs and vented subs will be no longer same. The latter will have 3 positions whereas the former has 2 positions.

[EDIT]: Or both sealed and ported subs can still share same amplifier if I label the rumble filter as 18hz/2 13hz/1 OFF/1. That is, the sealed subs get an extra rumble filter position which may be useful to some customers.


-
Edited by Rythmik - 2/2/13 at 10:21am
post #8154 of 15120
Are any of your subs, dual driver?

TIA
post #8155 of 15120
I don't particularly have any desire to listen to "Bass I Love You" outside of testing purposes, but I'm having a much different experience playing the track than dstew100. I understand 7Hz is inaudible, but what's not inaudible is the noise coming from my sub bottoming out (not sure if that's the correct term -- it sounds like the driver flapping loudly against itself or really loud farting noises -- is that what port chuffing sounds like?). I can hear the noise clearly above the rest of the track at -20. It sounds awful and scared my dogs tongue.gif

I don't expect my FV15HP to go down to 7Hz, but shouldn't it simply not reproduce those notes instead of bottoming out at moderate volumes? I freely admit that I do not understand much of the science behind what goes into a subwoofer and how low notes are reproduced, but what happens if I listen to a movie with a 10Hz scene? Shouldn't I just miss out on that part and not have my movie experience interrupted by something that sounds like my sub is about to explode (in a bad way biggrin.gif)? It happened again (I think) watching the movie "Beasts of the Southern Wild" -- which for a non-action film, surprisingly has some pretty nice LFE.

Please don't take my post the wrong way -- I think Brian and Rythmik are fantastic -- I'm just trying to figure out if I have a problem with my sub or if it's a problem with my setup or expectations of what the sub can/cannot do.
post #8156 of 15120
Woody777, I'm not the most technical on this stuff either but keep trying to learn more and more. This stuff is kewl.

I believe "bottoming out" is when the cone excursion is so much that the woofer physically hits the magnet. This is very likely to cause damage so until Brian comes up with some tests and/or recommendations for you I would cease that particular test.

I believe "port noise" can occur when playing below port tune where all of the sonic energy comes out of the port from the woofers backwave and is not coming directly out of the woofer itself. I think there's a point where so much air getting pushed through the port causes a "chuffing" sound.

So I think bottoming out is a physical "knock", cone hitting the magnet. Whereas port noise is caused by too much air and sounds like a "chuff".

Do you think your source volume could be vastly different from mine, can you play from you tube? I am calibrated to reference. I noticed we do have some configuration differences, not sure if that could be the cause of our different results. The limiter makes sound strangisms when it kicks in but the only time I have ever heard it was playing a long slow sweep starting at 5 Hz and the level was CRANKED at the GTG. The limiter kicks in so big SPL drop, then releases, then kicks in...sort of like pumping the breaks so SPL fluctuates. Any particular reason why you have this safeguard off? It may be worth a try to match my settings but start very low volume and stop at any sign of trouble. During that sweep I sure was glad I had it on.

How does your sub sound on material above 14Hz? I suppose another test would be to do some sine waves. They are very taxing on a sub so play short tones (maybe 15 seconds) and give the sub a break between (maybe a minute or two). I'd be curious how the sub performs in gradually decreasing sine waves from 30Hz down to 16Hz (also ceasing at any sign of trouble).

Clearly our subs are performing differently on that track and I too am curious as to the cause, I suppose it could be configuration but really I dunno????????????????
post #8157 of 15120
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post


I believe "bottoming out" is when the cone excursion is so much that the woofer physically hits the magnet.
The voice coil former hits the backplate, to be exact.
Quote:
I believe "port noise" can occur when playing below port tune where all of the sonic energy comes out of the port from the woofers backwave and is not coming directly out of the woofer itself.
Port noise is caused by the friction of the air vibrating in the port. If the driver is being pushed too hard or at too low a frequency, or both, the velocity of the air in the port is high enough so that friction causes audible noise. The situation is exacerbated if the port area is too small, as that causes the velocity of the air in the port to be higher for a given volume of air, per Bernoulli's Principle.
post #8158 of 15120
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Are any of your subs, dual driver?

TIA

There is an F25 model which is due out soon, not sure when but before summer if I recall correctly. It is pictured on the Rythmik website. I believe it is a sealed dual 15" w/800 watt amp + servo. It should have more extension and output then the FV15HP.
post #8159 of 15120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post


I believe "bottoming out" is when the cone excursion is so much that the woofer physically hits the magnet.
The voice coil former hits the backplate, to be exact.
Quote:
I believe "port noise" can occur when playing below port tune where all of the sonic energy comes out of the port from the woofers backwave and is not coming directly out of the woofer itself.
Port noise is caused by the friction of the air vibrating in the port. If the driver is being pushed too hard or at too low a frequency, or both, the velocity of the air in the port is high enough so that friction causes audible noise. The situation is exacerbated if the port area is too small, as that causes the velocity of the air in the port to be higher for a given volume of air, per Bernoulli's Principle.


tytytyty
post #8160 of 15120
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

There is an F25 model which is due out soon, not sure when but before summer if I recall correctly. It is pictured on the Rythmik website. I believe it is a sealed dual 15" w/800 watt amp + servo. It should have more extension and output then the FV15HP.

Thanks. I've seen the posted image of the F25. Looks much like the SubMersive F2 but not with as much amplification. I wanted to make sure I hadn't missed anything.
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