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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 275

post #8221 of 9856
2/5/13 at 10:27am
Guys..

Can anyone share what sort of SPL the erstwhile FV12 and its replacement LV12R would provide? The charts on Rythmik product pages only show relative dB values in the FR graphs in terms of drop in SPL vs Hz, but not the absolute values of SPL like those shown on Ricci's data-bass graphs. See below for example. I like that the FR is very linear in the desired range, but I can't get any idea what the real world SPL it corresponds to.

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post #8222 of 9856
2/5/13 at 11:35am
raaj,

I asked this question before about the original FV12 and was told by Enrico at Rythmik to expect approximately 105db at 20Hz, so I would expect about the same from the new version. Hope this helps!
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post #8223 of 9856
2/5/13 at 1:30pm
I switched over to DIY so I am selling my Rythmik FV12P, if anyone is interested. I posted it in the classified. Here is a link.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1456546/rythmik-fv12p
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post #8224 of 9856
2/5/13 at 5:08pm
Hi all,

I'm considering a Rythmik sub and have a couple questions that I was hoping you could answer for me. Thanks in advance.

First, it seems I've read that the cabinets are sourced from Asia and that the subs are assembled in Austin. Is this true? What about the drivers? Rythmik doesn't seem to mention any of this on their site compared to, for example, PSA.

Second, I'm looking at the F15 and the F15HP. Do you think the latter is worth the extra money? My room is 24x18x8.
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post #8225 of 9856
2/5/13 at 5:12pm
When I was looking to upgrade from my SVS PB12-NSD in my ~3,375 cu.ft. HT space, Rythmik recommended dual F12s or a single F15. (The FV15/HP models were not yet available at the time.) I was prepared to go with dual F15s. In your 3,456 cu.ft. space, I'd go with either dual F15s or dual FV15s.
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post #8226 of 9856
2/5/13 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

When I was looking to upgrade from my SVS PB12-NSD in my ~3,375 cu.ft. HT space, Rythmik recommended dual F12s or a single F15. (The FV15/HP models were not yet available at the time.) I was prepared to go with dual F15s. In your 3,456 cu.ft. space, I'd go with either dual F15s or dual FV15s.

Thanks for the response. I'm not a "bass freak" who needs his system to go as low as possible and crack the neighbors' walls but I am interested in tight accurate bass. I could go with dual subs but they would both have to be placed up front and would need to offer a substantial improvement over a single sub.
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post #8227 of 9856
2/5/13 at 5:21pm
If you have a chance to experiment and can determine that a single sub offers good FR across your primarly listening position(s), go with a single sub; else, consider duals.

But if you're intent on only going with one sub, get the FV15HP and be done with it. I don't think a single bad thing has been said about this sub. It will deliver output, extension, accuracy and "tightness". cool.gif
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post #8228 of 9856
2/5/13 at 11:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

This post assumes that -12 is the maximum trim on the sub MCACC/your AVR supports which is how Audyssey works.

What happened was your subs gain was set to a level so high that when MCACC measured SPL it had to turn the sub down. When it turns it down to the max it likely means it actually wanted to turn it down even more. At this point sense we can't know how much more MCACC wanted to turn it down we do not know exactly how hot your sub is running. However it is running at least 3db hot and likely more than that. This is being considered calibrated to reference (at the comparable levels the director intended things to sound). That being said many, including myself, like to run the subs hot. I commonly run the subs 3db hot but I do so less often now with duals as they seem to provide more tactile feel for me. Other run hotter (6-8dbs). Also, with Audyssey anyway some feel it is important to keep your sub trim on the AVR within 3db of a 0 trim level so you have to adjust the gain knob on the sub to get pretty close. It's nice to have an SPL meter to double check any automated tools settings.

My recommendation is to adjust your gain on the sub down and re-run MCACC until you get with 3db of 0 on the AVR trim. Since your preference is to run the sub a bit hot You can do like I do and aim to have the trim after Audyssey around -3 so when I trim it up to run hot I am still within 3db of 0.

The Audyssey thread is filled with "where did my bass go" posts. Many are not accustomed to level/flat/calibrated sub levels. Usually they recommend trying it out for awhile to see if it grows on you. There's nothing wrong with preference and if you find you want your subs hot, trim it up. In the end it's all about what you like.

I really appreciate your response. I have the sub setup exactly the way Rythmik reccommended I set it up using a AVR. I will lower the gain and re-run the MCACC and see if I can get that number closer to 0. I will report back tomorrow night. Thanks again
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post #8229 of 9856
2/5/13 at 11:44pm
@justindo
If you are looking for accurate, Rythimk is the best place I am aware of for you. What is awesome about multiple subs is it helps achieve a flatter frequency response which makes it even more accurate. Take the hypothetical perfect sub measured in an anechoic chamber, then put it in your room, it'll be a mess. Multiples help that mess out big time. What I think is awesome about Rythimk is you are starting with clean, accurate, and true to source.

It would help to know about your listening habits and room, but sounds like you don't need one big rythimk, but 2-4 smaller ones. I'd love to see the in room FR of 4 LV12R's in a real system. Bet it's smoother than mine in the audible range while extending down below what is audible. FYI some fella named Geddes that gets a lot of respect apparently recommends 3 subs; apparently space is 3 dimensional (under current human understanding Hawking not included).

If you don't want to blow the walls off your neighbours place, scvweeeeet, but I can if I want to smile.gif
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post #8230 of 9856
2/6/13 at 6:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

The voice coil former hits the backplate, to be exact.

Former hitting the backplate will be catastrophic. It only takes once to be game over. But newer driver designs with deeper basket actually can survive several times of the noise. It is because the noise is caused by voice coil rubbing the pole piece at high excursion. So hearing that scary sound a couple of times is ok, but should be avoided.
Quote:
Port noise is caused by the friction of the air vibrating in the port. If the driver is being pushed too hard or at too low a frequency, or both, the velocity of the air in the port is high enough so that friction causes audible noise. The situation is exacerbated if the port area is too small, as that causes the velocity of the air in the port to be higher for a given volume of air, per Bernoulli's Principle.

The major source of the noise is from the vortex around the port's joint to free air. It is what we called boundary condition. There are quite a few papers in AES and its conference on that subject. Some even propose very unconventional shape. I bought one of those from Parts Express. Does it really improve that much? No. Otherwise I would have used them. The biggest improvement is to just put flare caps on both ends (with good flare radius). Puting only one end is not enough. I learnt my lession. Don't repeat that. smile.gif


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Edited by Rythmik - 2/6/13 at 7:02am
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post #8231 of 9856
2/6/13 at 6:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

Guys..

Can anyone share what sort of SPL the erstwhile FV12 and its replacement LV12R would provide? The charts on Rythmik product pages only show relative dB values in the FR graphs in terms of drop in SPL vs Hz, but not the absolute values of SPL like those shown on Ricci's data-bass graphs. See below for example. I like that the FR is very linear in the desired range, but I can't get any idea what the real world SPL it corresponds to.

LV12R at 20hz is about 6db down from FV15HP.

Several customers ask me about a pair of LV12R vs one single FV15HP. The advantage of the latter is you have a more flexible tuning setup. One port mode in FV15HP allows for lower group delay (with high damping setting).

BTW, on LV12R, there are 3 extension setting. The difference in actual extension is not that much. But the Q value changes too. So customer should try all 3 setting if he wants to get tightest sound. High extension also has the lowest Q (less ringing).

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Edited by Rythmik - 2/6/13 at 7:01am
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post #8232 of 9856
2/6/13 at 7:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

LV12R at 20hz is about 6db down from FV15HP.

Thanks! Personally I find that a very interesting piece of information. When might consumers expect to see the LV12R listed on your product page? confused.gif

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 2/6/13 at 7:06am
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post #8233 of 9856
2/6/13 at 8:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by K5/SS View Post


I really appreciate your response. I have the sub setup exactly the way Rythmik reccommended I set it up using a AVR. I will lower the gain and re-run the MCACC and see if I can get that number closer to 0. I will report back tomorrow night. Thanks again

WooHooo, happy to help on the rare occasion I actually have something informative to offer.
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post #8234 of 9856
2/6/13 at 8:50am
Hi all, I'm looking at the different amp options for the F12 and could use some help and advice on my decision. This sub will be apart of a computer system so I won't have bass management -- because of this I'm considering the A370PEQ. How important is this feature? I am also considering the A370XLR3 (with two XLR ins) if it has a set of line outs because I might have to place the sub far away from the source. Also does anyone know whether the 80Hz filtered Line Out is a high pass or low pass filter?

Thanks
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post #8235 of 9856
2/6/13 at 12:31pm
High pass first order filter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaaceman View Post

Hi all, I'm looking at the different amp options for the F12 and could use some help and advice on my decision. This sub will be apart of a computer system so I won't have bass management -- because of this I'm considering the A370PEQ. How important is this feature? I am also considering the A370XLR3 (with two XLR ins) if it has a set of line outs because I might have to place the sub far away from the source. Also does anyone know whether the 80Hz filtered Line Out is a high pass or low pass filter?

Thanks
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post #8236 of 9856
2/6/13 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Thanks! Personally I find that a very interesting piece of information. When might consumers expect to see the LV12R listed on your product page? confused.gif

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It's been up since Monday...which is when I placed my order for one!smile.gif

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/LV12R.html
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post #8237 of 9856
2/6/13 at 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatliner View Post

It's been up since Monday...which is when I placed my order for one!smile.gif

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/LV12R.html

But when I go to their website, it's not on the products list. confused.gif
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post #8238 of 9856
2/6/13 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

But when I go to their website, it's not on the products list. confused.gif


Hover your mouse arrow over "subwoofers" at the top of the page. A magical window will drop down. You'll figure it out from there.
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post #8239 of 9856
2/6/13 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by XStanleyX View Post

Hover your mouse arrow over "subwoofers" at the top of the page. A magical window will drop down. You'll figure it out from there.

Thanks. On my end, I had already tried that and in our case, the hidden link is broken. frown.gif
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post #8240 of 9856
2/6/13 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post


Thanks. On my end, I had already tried that and in our case, the hidden link is broken. frown.gif

 Must be gremlins at your place. They are everywhere ya know.

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post #8241 of 9856
2/6/13 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by XStanleyX View Post

 Must be gremlins at your place. They are everywhere ya know.

I knew it. tongue.gif

(Getting out the aluminum pan and wooden spoon as the aluminum foil is reserved for the CIA , mirrors are for vampires, baseball bats for zombies, yodeling records are for "Mars Attacks" and baseball mitts are for when somebody throws me a bone.) tongue.gif

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 2/6/13 at 1:39pm
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post #8242 of 9856
2/6/13 at 2:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Thanks. On my end, I had already tried that and in our case, the hidden link is broken. frown.gif
This does happen. If you are like me, always have that page open, then the page may not get refreshed.
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post #8243 of 9856
2/6/13 at 3:20pm
Try restarting your PC, if that fails, delete temp files in your browser For Internet explorer, its under tools - internet options - Delete
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

This does happen. If you are like me, always have that page open, then the page may not get refreshed.
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post #8244 of 9856
2/6/13 at 5:40pm
Well I watched some War of the Worlds today and Dark Knight Rises and got some port chuffling at high volumes. This was with the subwoofer set at the 12 o'clock position with Q set to low and slope at 12db. Obiously it took some demanding scenes to get the sub to this point. Just wanted to give some feedback though. This is the new Rythmik LV12R by the way.
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post #8245 of 9856
2/6/13 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post

Well I watched some War of the Worlds today and Dark Knight Rises and got some port chuffling at high volumes. This was with the subwoofer set at the 12 o'clock position with Q set to low and slope at 12db. Obiously it took some demanding scenes to get the sub to this point. Just wanted to give some feedback though. This is the new Rythmik LV12R by the way.

Mine will be delivered Friday. I'm curious, since you previously owned the FV12, any sense yet on how the LV12R compares to it? Also, what size room and about how loud were your listening levels when you heard the port chuffing?
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post #8246 of 9856
2/6/13 at 7:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post

High pass first order filter

The PEQ is a one-band parametric control, to tame a room mode. It's definitely worth having, and is on both the XLR2 and XLR3. Those two amps do not have High Pass Filtered RCA outputs, however (no RCA Outputs at all, infact).
The original PEQ does, but it doesn't have XLR ins and outs. Choices, choices! If you are planning on getting a separate EQ device (the Behringer 1124 or 2496, for instance), you can give up the PEQ on the Rythmik to get XLR's, which is nice to have for long interconnect runs (20 ft. or so). The XLR Output(s) on the 2 and 3 are HPFed at whatever frequency you set on the x-over knobs.
Edited by BDP24 - 2/7/13 at 5:48am
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post #8247 of 9856
2/6/13 at 8:35pm
Finally pulled the trigger today on my FV15HP..This will be mated with the following..
Panny AE4000(106' screen)
Panny BT500 BluRay
Klipsch RF 7
Klipsch RC 7
Klipsch RB 5
Denon AVR 3808(pre)
Emotiva XPA 5


Spoke to Brian @ Rythmik and was very helpful with questions I asked.Cant wait till it gets here..Loading up on those BluRays now to play with! : )
Now I have a 2 year deal with the Wife..No more HT upgrades.. : )
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post #8248 of 9856
2/6/13 at 8:40pm
Nice system. Congrats on the sub. You'll be loving it.
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post #8249 of 9856
2/7/13 at 4:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post

Well I watched some War of the Worlds today and Dark Knight Rises and got some port chuffling at high volumes. This was with the subwoofer set at the 12 o'clock position with Q set to low and slope at 12db. Obiously it took some demanding scenes to get the sub to this point. Just wanted to give some feedback though. This is the new Rythmik LV12R by the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatliner View Post

Mine will be delivered Friday. I'm curious, since you previously owned the FV12, any sense yet on how the LV12R compares to it? Also, what size room and about how loud were your listening levels when you heard the port chuffing?

Amplifiers used LV12R in US (and LV12S in Asia market) are the HX series, in which, we add microchip controller to monitor the status of the amplifier and the result is via flashing of the LED light. When the amplifier limiter is engaged, the LED light will flash once or twice, indicating you are driving the sub to its limit.

In terms of port chuffing, LV12R and FV12 is same (as I did a side-by-side comparison). If one plans to play loud on LV12R, I do recommend to leave a bit more space in the back.
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post #8250 of 9856
2/7/13 at 5:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post


Amplifiers used LV12R in US (and LV12S in Asia market) are the HX series, in which, we add microchip controller to monitor the status of the amplifier and the result is via flashing of the LED light. When the amplifier limiter is engaged, the LED light will flash once or twice, indicating you are driving the sub to its limit.

In terms of port chuffing, LV12R and FV12 is same (as I did a side-by-side comparison). If one plans to play loud on LV12R, I do recommend to leave a bit more space in the back.

I don't know a lot about ported subs so I'm just curious, what was the reason for moving the port from the front to the back? Seems like it would mean placement/ distance from the wall would have more influence with maybe a tradeoff between deeper bass/ more output closer to the wall behind it but more accuracy further away - but that seems to be counter to your suggestion? I have a pair of Vandersteen 1b's for my fronts which are extremely sensitive to distance out from the wall so I'm just trying to get an idea of where to start with sub placement for best accuracy (I don't really listen at very loud levels these days). I'm guessing between the two mains and not really in the corner on the outside of the main pair. That's a position I often hear suggested for subs (in the corner) but it seems like it would inherently amplify the boominess (artificial boominess which I want to avoid) and decrease accuracy but perhaps that's not the case? My 1b's go down fairly low - at least to an honest/ flat 60-80hz which will be the crossover I initially set I guess - so I don't think localization and interference with the great imaging of the 1b's would be affected by where the sub ends up. Any suggestions?
Edited by Flatliner - 2/7/13 at 5:06am
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