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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 285

post #8521 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

^^
I watch WOTW at -10 below reference with LFE 5dbs hot. I have not watched War horse yet. By saying subwoofer level hot, you meant raising the gain on subwoofer itself?
From what I am understanding, once Audyssey calibrated, one does not want to touch the gain knob on subwoofer but rather increasing the LFE trim on receiver.
On your AVR, look at the Channel Level settings. It's called "Subwoofer" channel level, not LFE level. You can also press the CH LEVEL button on the remote control, which will overlay the channel level page on your display. You'll see "Subwoofer".
LFE level can be found under Audio/Video Adjust > Audio Adjust > Surround Parameter > LFE. It should be left at default 0dB.
post #8522 of 15160
Let me see if I can explain things a bit better...

1) Audyssey set my levels correctly. I even checked with my decibel meter.

2) I bumped the sub up +3db in the receiver.

This really comes down to personal preference. A lot of guys run their subs a few dbs hot -- I think there's even a thread about it. I did just about all of my tweaking listening to music I knew really well (a big mistake in my setup -- more on that later). Again, it's personal preference, but I was really enjoying listening to music with the +3db boost.

3) I engaged Dynamic EQ (sometimes).

Most of my music listening is at pretty low levels -- somewhere in the range of -40 to -30 (-20 to -10 if I'm home alone... on very rare occasions). In the lower volume range, the +3db boost with Dynamic EQ sounded pretty good to my ears for most songs. Definitely bass heavy, but that's the mix I like. I typically turned it off in the higher volume range -- the bass became too much and the overall sound too muddy. I could be wrong, but I don't think Dynamic EQ is truly dynamic in the sense that it responds and changes the EQ curve as you change the volume up and down. And my receiver does not have the version with Reference Level Offset to make the effects of Dynamic EQ less.

4) My Onkyo 706 suffers from something referred to as the "LFE Bug."

To be honest, I don't fully understand it. There is a lot of information in this thread. But basically, multichannel movie soundtracks require a +10db boost to the .1 LFE channel. This is the part I don't really understand, but somehow modern receivers know whether or not to apply this +10db boost (I think sometimes the player does it). Most receivers give you an option to change the way the boost is handled (I think some older soundtracks and some music soundtracks require this). I think in almost every case, the default setting (called "0db" in most receivers) works as expected out of the box. Somehow, my receiver -- even at the 0db setting (it's called "low frequency" in my setup) -- was applying the +10db boost twice.

Like I said earlier, I did the bulk of my tweaking using music -- which of course is not a multichannel movie soundtrack -- and did not receive the +10db boost. So when I turned on a movie, I already was boosting my sub +3db, my receiver applied an erroneous +10db boost, and sometimes at lower volumes I engaged Dynamic EQ which boosted another +3db to +10db depending on the frequency (Brian and I measured with Dynamic EQ both on and then off). That’s more than +20db for some frequencies!

Obviously, the +10db bass boost was the cause of any port noise, driver flap, clipping, etc. With my receiver set to -10db for multichannel movie soundtracks, now movies sound just as good as music. And I know it’s been said multiple times in this thread, but I’m still in awe over Brian’s customer service. What a guy and what a company!

EDIT: The +10db boost is applied after Audyssey and is independent if it. In other words, my system was calibrated correctly with Audyssey and then the +10db boost was applied when I popped in a movie.
Edited by woody777 - 2/25/13 at 7:39pm
post #8523 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody777 View Post

Like I said earlier, I did the bulk of my tweaking using music -- which of course is not a multichannel movie soundtrack -- and did not receive the +10db boost. So when I turned on a movie, I already was boosting my sub +3db, my receiver applied an erroneous +10db boost, and sometimes at lower volumes I engaged Dynamic EQ which boosted another +3db to +10db depending on the frequency (Brian and I measured with Dynamic EQ both on and then off). That’s more than +20db for some frequencies!

Obviously, the +10db bass boost was the cause of any port noise, driver flap, clipping, etc. With my receiver set to -10db for multichannel movie soundtracks, now movies sound just as good as music. And I know it’s been said multiple times in this thread, but I’m still in awe over Brian’s customer service. What a guy and what a company!
Make perfect sense. Where do you set the -10db in your receiver for multichannel movie? Thanks.
post #8524 of 15160
Audio Adjust --> LFE level

Default is 0db. I set mine to -10db for both DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD. There is also a setting called -infinity_symbol. I have no idea what this one is for.
post #8525 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

On your AVR, look at the Channel Level settings. It's called "Subwoofer" channel level, not LFE level. You can also press the CH LEVEL button on the remote control, which will overlay the channel level page on your display. You'll see "Subwoofer".
LFE level can be found under Audio/Video Adjust > Audio Adjust > Surround Parameter > LFE. It should be left at default 0dB.
Thanks. I will take a look when I am home. Currently am out of town.
post #8526 of 15160
See, you guys? Your other components are telling you to ditch yer receivers, yer pre-pro's (whatever the hell THAT is), etc., and get a manly separate, real pre-amp. Maybe even with tubes! biggrin.gif
post #8527 of 15160
My $1k Denon receiver sounds better than my $6k pre-amp Processor Lexicon MC1 and $4k Bryston amp combo I used to have movie wise. Technology and price drop have made it easy to own a good system for lots less nowadays.
post #8528 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

My $1k Denon receiver sounds better than my $6k pre-amp Processor Lexicon MC1 and $4k Bryston amp combo I used to have movie wise. Technology and price drop have made it easy to own a good system for lots less nowadays.

Shucks, I was kidding. I will admit, too, that the full-feature receivers are too damn complicated for this old (62 3/4 years) man. It doesn't matter though, 'cause I just don't care that much about film sound quality. My tastes run to dialog driven stories, so as long as the dialog is intelligible, I'm satisfied. However, I wouldn't be at all surprised if I ever heard a nice HT I might change my mind. Great, just what I need, another obsession! A music library, a good hi-fi to listen to it on, and 25 drumsets should be enough for any one man. Oh, and a bottomless supply of Single Malt Scotch!
post #8529 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post


Shucks, I was kidding. I will admit, too, that the full-feature receivers are too damn complicated for this old (62 3/4 years) man. It doesn't matter though, 'cause I just don't care that much about film sound quality. My tastes run to dialog driven stories, so as long as the dialog is intelligible, I'm satisfied. However, I wouldn't be at all surprised if I ever heard a nice HT I might change my mind. Great, just what I need, another obsession! A music library, a good hi-fi to listen to it on, and 25 drumsets should be enough for any one man. Oh, and a bottomless supply of Single Malt Scotch!

You have 25 drumsets?
post #8530 of 15160
At the moment. And about 50 snare drums (including the one in my Avatar pic, which is available. $3k, the only one in the world like it. Click on the pic until you get to the details page). I buy, restore, and sell Vintage Drums. American made from the 1920's into the '70's, when the quality went way down. My "handle" refers to my favorite drum wrap and size kick drum.
Edited by BDP24 - 2/26/13 at 10:36am
post #8531 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post

At the moment. I buy, restore, and sell Vintage Drums. American made from the 1920's into the '70's, when the quality went way down. My "handle" refers to my favorite drum wrap and size kick drum.

Very cool. My Tama Swingstar kit is just considered old. Not kewl enough for vintage status yet.
post #8532 of 15160
!
Edited by BDP24 - 2/26/13 at 2:01pm
post #8533 of 15160
No, but those are good drums. I have a huge set of Tama Superstars in Mahogany available. Email me privately for details @ ericjerde@gmail.com
post #8534 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post

No, but those are good drums. I have a huge set of Tama Superstars in Mahogany available. Email me privately for details @ ericjerde@gmail.com

Mahogany, bet those are gorgeous. I'm not in the market right now though. I used to play a lot but it has fallen off considerably the last few years. It's one of those things I'll get on a kick, play three times a week, then not play for awhile.

Ran into my first singer/guitarist not too long ago who we won battle of the bands with. Good times. It's had me itching to play but it's frustrating after such a long break not being able to make the limbs do what I know how to make them do and nothing sounding tight. Comes back quick though. If folks don't mind one more off topic post, I'd love to see a pic.
post #8535 of 15160
Send me your email address, I take some pics and send 'em there. They're the Billy Cobham set in the first Tama catalog. Two 24's!
Edited by BDP24 - 2/27/13 at 4:29am
post #8536 of 15160
It took me 4 months of pestering the bejesus out of everyone in these forums. Reading like a mad man..and listening as much as I could.

Got invoiced for the FV15HP 550 Watt version yesterday! Let the bass start! Will post a review and compare it to my current sub as well.

Thanks all!

The Rythmik subwoofer will drop ship from Texas within 3-5 business days.
post #8537 of 15160
Congrats! What sub you are currently have?
post #8538 of 15160
I am a little embarrassed to say... Before this mid-life journey into audiophileville... I have lived with a 5.1 setup that cost about $550 dollars including receiver.

I did do a couple days of research 4 years ago...and came up with the Velodyne VX10B. So it is not a fair contest to say the very least. Sort of like a Yugo..powered like the Flintstones (using just my feet) and a Honda Accord fully decked out with a v6.

Lexus would be an HP Sub or a S1/S2 Cap. eek.gif
post #8539 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie01 View Post

I am a little embarrassed to say... Before this mid-life journey into audiophileville... I have lived with a 5.1 setup that cost about $550 dollars including receiver.

I did do a couple days of research 4 years ago...and came up with the Velodyne VX10B. So it is not a fair contest to say the very least. Sort of like a Yugo..powered like the Flintstones (using just my feet) and a Honda Accord fully decked out with a v6.

Lexus would be an HP Sub or a S1/S2 Cap. eek.gif

You'll appreciate it more. Congrats on the very nice sub. Look forward to hearing your impressions.
post #8540 of 15160
Hi Brian,

Hopefully you can help with this connection

My setup consist of a 2 Channel Vintage Receiver with Pre and Power inputs, Earlier, I tried sending the pre-out to the RCA inputs on the Rythmik and then high pass output to the Power IN Iof the receiver. I was able to run my system louder for blockbuster movies, no really sure if its better sounding, but at least I know I am protecting my fronts from low frequency signals. Sadly the music experience was a bit lacking, mid bass was lacking and the high frequency was a bit "rough". I am thinking of making a switch where I can choose between direct mode and High pass filtered mode. I can go with a 2 pole, double throw switch assuming that the outer conductor on the Rythmik RCA in and High pass out is all the same and I can just solder them all together OR should I go with a 4 pole double throw switch to allow the outer conductor to have its own connection.

Thanks
post #8541 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

On your AVR, look at the Channel Level settings. It's called "Subwoofer" channel level, not LFE level. You can also press the CH LEVEL button on the remote control, which will overlay the channel level page on your display. You'll see "Subwoofer".
LFE level can be found under Audio/Video Adjust > Audio Adjust > Surround Parameter > LFE. It should be left at default 0dB.
I cannot find Audio/Video Adjust > Audio Adjust > Surround Parameter > LFE on my Denon 3312. Under Audio/Video/Audio adjust, I have: Audessey Setting which cycle between Audessey, Audessey Flat and Manual, Restorer than Audio Delay. I can't find Surround parameter >LFE?
post #8542 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

I cannot find Audio/Video Adjust > Audio Adjust > Surround Parameter > LFE on my Denon 3312. Under Audio/Video/Audio adjust, I have: Audessey Setting which cycle between Audessey, Audessey Flat and Manual, Restorer than Audio Delay. I can't find Surround parameter >LFE?

Make sure you aren't in pure direct mode. From the manual

post #8543 of 15160
Got it. Thanks. I have to play a movie for that choice to show. And yes, it has been at at zero for LFE. I have been running my subwoofer channel 5dbs hot. I guest I should be ok?
post #8544 of 15160
Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post

Hi Brian,

Hopefully you can help with this connection

My setup consist of a 2 Channel Vintage Receiver with Pre and Power inputs, Earlier, I tried sending the pre-out to the RCA inputs on the Rythmik and then high pass output to the Power IN Iof the receiver. I was able to run my system louder for blockbuster movies, no really sure if its better sounding, but at least I know I am protecting my fronts from low frequency signals. Sadly the music experience was a bit lacking, mid bass was lacking and the high frequency was a bit "rough". I am thinking of making a switch where I can choose between direct mode and High pass filtered mode. I can go with a 2 pole, double throw switch assuming that the outer conductor on the Rythmik RCA in and High pass out is all the same and I can just solder them all together OR should I go with a 4 pole double throw switch to allow the outer conductor to have its own connection.

Thanks

A single single pole single throw on each channel is best. All you have to do is short circuit the capacitor. The 5.1kohm loading is not bypassed and will still be there, but it really should be a problem for today's preamp (they are capable of driving that). This will simplify the installation a great deal.
post #8545 of 15160
AHA !!! so the high pass filter is composed of a capacitor and 5.1Kohm, resistor. biggrin.gif Can you please provide the value of the capacitor. I dont want to do any shorting on the Rythmik amplifier, for fear of damaging it. It will be safer for me to replicate the high pass filter near my pre amp

Thanks !!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

A single single pole single throw on each channel is best. All you have to do is short circuit the capacitor. The 5.1kohm loading is not bypassed and will still be there, but it really should be a problem for today's preamp (they are capable of driving that). This will simplify the installation a great deal.
post #8546 of 15160
Uh, you're probably going to want a higher slope than first-order, which means a more complex passive (LC) or active HPF...
post #8547 of 15160
I am quite happy with the results of the high pass Filter on the main speakers, my 40 lbs "Bookshelf" speakers is quite capable biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Uh, you're probably going to want a higher slope than first-order, which means a more complex passive (LC) or active HPF...
post #8548 of 15160
The HPF built into the sub is second-order (12 dB/octave), I think, the minimum I would use for the vast majority of speakers. If you implement a simple passive RC filter at the preamp output that is only first-order (6 dB/octave), that might not roll off fast enough, IMO. I may have totally misunderstood what you were thinking, of course. - Don
post #8549 of 15160
Anyone using a LV12R (or any other Rythmik sub), along with an Onkyo TX-NR818 receiver (or equivalent THX Onkyo receiver)? I have my LV12R in a corner of the room along the front wall, with the rear port about 6 inches from the wall. I have the crossover set at 80Hz, and using the LFE port on the sub for input. Audyssey XT32 calibrated with the full 8 positions, and Dyn-Eq set to On, and Dynamic Volume set mostly to OFF, and occassionally to ON - particularly watching Dish programming.

I am able to localize the sub output, along with the sub sounding a bit boomy and in many BDs, prone to go on a rumbling drone. I also tried nearfield placement next to the couch along the rear wall, with around 2ft clearance for the port from the wall. I am watching Skyfall BD now, and the opening fight sequence on the train, sounds a bit too "drone-y". I had a similar experience watching The Avengers BD, and am having to tone down the sub trim about 0.5dB. Having never had a sub in my room before, I am not sure if the sub is just more pronounced than I am used to in the lower bass region. Just curious to see if anyone is having issues taming the boom and drone of the sub. I am sure in a bigger room or with a better placement, the sub would perform better without localization and boom/drone. I have District 9 on BD to watch tomorrow, so I will post follow ups when I get to watch it. That is one bass heavy movie!
post #8550 of 15160
In about a week I will be using the FV15HP with an Onkyo 818 wink.gif
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