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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 286

post #8551 of 9845
3/2/13 at 4:19am
Hey raaj,
I use the 818 with dual rythmiks. I also cross over at 80 Hz (Audyssey recommended 40 for my front 3 but I went on up). I'm not experiencing any localization and I'm not really sure what to recommend. Whaty was you audyssey recommended crossover? can you try going down to 70Hz?

I would experiment with some different placement options. I think there was discussion a couple weeks ago ITT about how much room to give the LV12R rear port off the wall. Also try it away from a corner once maybe???

Hope we can get this resolved.
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post #8552 of 9845
3/2/13 at 5:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

Anyone using a LV12R (or any other Rythmik sub), along with an Onkyo TX-NR818 receiver (or equivalent THX Onkyo receiver)? I have my LV12R in a corner of the room along the front wall, with the rear port about 6 inches from the wall. I have the crossover set at 80Hz, and using the LFE port on the sub for input. Audyssey XT32 calibrated with the full 8 positions, and Dyn-Eq set to On, and Dynamic Volume set mostly to OFF, and occassionally to ON - particularly watching Dish programming.

I also have a LV12R but I am using an older Sony Receiver, the sub is corner loaded with the port ~6" away from the wall. What do you have the volume and bass extension set at on the back of the sub? Also is your couch up against a back wall?

My receiver doesn't have an LFE adjust just subwoofer level which I have set to +2 and the sub volume is set to ~1 o-clock with the bass extension at mid. I watch tv and movies, I rarely listen to music. If I set the subwoofer volume too high I get a boomy sound and I also had to move my couch off of the wall a little that really helped with the sound in my room.
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post #8553 of 9845
3/2/13 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

Hey raaj,
I use the 818 with dual rythmiks. I also cross over at 80 Hz (Audyssey recommended 40 for my front 3 but I went on up). I'm not experiencing any localization and I'm not really sure what to recommend. Whaty was you audyssey recommended crossover? can you try going down to 70Hz?

I would experiment with some different placement options. I think there was discussion a couple weeks ago ITT about how much room to give the LV12R rear port off the wall. Also try it away from a corner once maybe???

Hope we can get this resolved.

Thanks dstew! Do you use the THX config options like THX sub= YES, and BGC and Loudness Plus?

Audyssey recommended a crossover of 40Hz for my speakers, but I raised it to 80. I have to enable the THX sub setting along with the BGC (boundary gain compensation) to tame the sub. Although I am not sure if these settings are meant to be used with a THX certified sub, I am just assuming the LV12R should be just as capable as such a certified sub. Not sure if that setting should not be enabled with a non-certified sub.

My sub placement options are really limited as I cannot move the furniture to get better frontline placement (we've been through that discussion in the audyssey thread - suffice it to say that rearrangement is not an option). And with the current placement, maybe I am getting too much corner loading. A smaller sub might give me more placement options, but at its size, the LV12R has only a few WAF-compatible positions. All positions tried have at least the recommended wall clearance of 6". Nearfield placement by the side of my couch had about 2ft of clearance, but bass easily became overpowering due to proximity and corner loading from the back wall.

Not really the fault of the sub, but I am just trying to understand if the THX settings may be applied with this sub to tame the boundary gain.

@dstew,
Have you tried the THX settings with your sub? How did it sound to you, with and without THX?
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post #8554 of 9845
3/2/13 at 9:07am
Raaj,
I have the THX Usltra2/Select2 Subwoofer setting to No, and Loudness Plus set to On. There was not a great deal of thought process behind those selections and it sounds like you know more about those options than I. I just tend to turn extra processing off by default until I read something that makes me think I really want to give that a try. I have not researched those settings in particular though but it's always urked me that THX wants company x to pay them so they say their equipment is good. I don't think my FV15HP x 2 would have any issue reaching said certification but I don't think Brian should pay for the sticker which he'd just have to pass that cost onto us if he wanted to stay in business.

It's not really a good time for me to do testing today, but I'll flip it on and off when I get a chance to get some experience with it.

I feel like you either need a little more distance from the wall (easy to try), Lower crossover (easy to try), and/or try it out of the corner (even if its just an experiment at first).

Is it possible your sub is playing 80Hz and below but either the corner loading or processing settings is causing >80Hz tones????? I always thought 80 was pretty safe at not being localizable and that generally happened at 100-120Hz.
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post #8555 of 9845
3/2/13 at 1:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

I am able to localize the sub output, along with the sub sounding a bit boomy and in many BDs, prone to go on a rumbling drone. I also tried nearfield placement next to the couch along the rear wall, with around 2ft clearance for the port from the wall. I am watching Skyfall BD now, and the opening fight sequence on the train, sounds a bit too "drone-y". I had a similar experience watching The Avengers BD, and am having to tone down the sub trim about 0.5dB. Having never had a sub in my room before, I am not sure if the sub is just more pronounced than I am used to in the lower bass region. Just curious to see if anyone is having issues taming the boom and drone of the sub. I am sure in a bigger room or with a better placement, the sub would perform better without localization and boom/drone. I have District 9 on BD to watch tomorrow, so I will post follow ups when I get to watch it. That is one bass heavy movie!

Keep in mind there is extension control which also act as damping control. If you put it in high extension or mid extension, it reduces the boomy sound. Trimming sub the sub by 0.5db is insignificant. You need to have -3db to really hear the difference. If by adjusting 0.5db, you get better sound, by all means make that adjustment. Make sure you use LFE (which bypasses phase and crossover control and less prone to user error).
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post #8556 of 9845
3/2/13 at 3:23pm
Ah, i see thats why Brian suggested a corner frequency of 150hz due to the shallow slope.

I was board yesterday and made switch than enables me to choose direct mode or use the HPF on the Rythmik, what I noticed is that the output on the Rythmik is much louder compared to the unfiltered signal from my pre-amp. If I adjust the gain on the sub for movies, I get too much bass on direct mode. Is there a way to reduce the output of the HPF filter ? A potentiometer perhaps ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

The HPF built into the sub is second-order (12 dB/octave), I think, the minimum I would use for the vast majority of speakers. If you implement a simple passive RC filter at the preamp output that is only first-order (6 dB/octave), that might not roll off fast enough, IMO. I may have totally misunderstood what you were thinking, of course. - Don
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post #8557 of 9845
3/2/13 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

Keep in mind there is extension control which also act as damping control. If you put it in high extension or mid extension, it reduces the boomy sound. Trimming sub the sub by 0.5db is insignificant. You need to have -3db to really hear the difference. If by adjusting 0.5db, you get better sound, by all means make that adjustment. Make sure you use LFE (which bypasses phase and crossover control and less prone to user error).

Thanks Brian. I am using high extension setting and have also used mid extension before. Do you have any insight into the settings for "THX Select2/ Ultra2 sub" setting and the associated settings for Boundary Gain Control (BGC) as supported by the Onkyo receivers (and maybe other THX certified receivers), and whether using any of those settings has any benefit (not just a difference) with your subs?
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post #8558 of 9845
3/2/13 at 4:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

Thanks Brian. I am using high extension setting and have also used mid extension before. Do you have any insight into the settings for "THX Select2/ Ultra2 sub" setting and the associated settings for Boundary Gain Control (BGC) as supported by the Onkyo receivers (and maybe other THX certified receivers), and whether using any of those settings has any benefit (not just a difference) with your subs?

I will say don't use these advanced featurew yet. Set the extension to low when you do Audyssey calibration and turn the extension to mid or high afterwards.

If you watch movies at -15db to -10db, you don't need dynamic EQ. That is a pretty normally loud listening level. I also normally turn up the center channel by 3db.

Dynamic EQ is called loudness in the old days and it was mis-used as a quick fix for speakers with design flaws (such as weak tweeter or weak bass). If you already have too much bass, you certaintly don't need additional boost in the bass (which is what Dynamic EQ does). So you should turn off dynamic EQ.

Also make sure there is nothing loose around the subwofoer. Low frequency below 80hz does not have direction. But if you have a loose object which will resonate and create harmonic resonance noise, it is the latter that makes it localizable.
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post #8559 of 9845
3/2/13 at 5:44pm
Brian.. thanks for the suggestion. I will recalibrate the setup with low extension and then move to high afterwards. I had it on HIGH pre- and post-calibration for the current setup. I will have to explore further regarding the localization and resonances.
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post #8560 of 9845
3/2/13 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by qguy View Post

Ah, i see thats why Brian suggested a corner frequency of 150hz due to the shallow slope.

I was board yesterday and made switch than enables me to choose direct mode or use the HPF on the Rythmik, what I noticed is that the output on the Rythmik is much louder compared to the unfiltered signal from my pre-amp. If I adjust the gain on the sub for movies, I get too much bass on direct mode. Is there a way to reduce the output of the HPF filter ? A potentiometer perhaps ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

The HPF built into the sub is second-order (12 dB/octave), I think, the minimum I would use for the vast majority of speakers. If you implement a simple passive RC filter at the preamp output that is only first-order (6 dB/octave), that might not roll off fast enough, IMO. I may have totally misunderstood what you were thinking, of course. - Don

You could use a pot at the input or add a resistor to the filter's output (recalculating the values) to attenuate and filter. That would require you know how much attenuation is desired, of course. One issue with a simple passive filter is that it is sensitive to impedance (resistance) so adding the pot would change the frequency as you adjust the pot.
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post #8561 of 9845
3/2/13 at 8:21pm
Is there a big difference between mid and high damping? I ran Audyssey on low and switched to high. Very happy with the sound now. Just wondering if this setting should be used as minimum as possible.
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post #8562 of 9845
3/3/13 at 2:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIXX1300 View Post

Is there a big difference between mid and high damping? I ran Audyssey on low and switched to high. Very happy with the sound now. Just wondering if this setting should be used as minimum as possible.
Why would you use it as minimum as possible?
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post #8563 of 9845
3/3/13 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

Why would you use it as minimum as possible?[/quote

]
Just wondering what the tradeoffs are between Lo,Med and Hi.
I understand Hi = Less Boomy, less output?
Low= More boomy,more output?
Med= ?

Edited by GIXX1300 - 3/3/13 at 10:00am
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post #8564 of 9845
3/3/13 at 1:28pm
Afternoon all,
I know there are other subwoofer threads and this isn't necessarily specific to Rythmik, yet given my build being Rythmik I figured I'd start here.smile.gif I'm planning on two DIY Rythmik 1510 kits. Was actually just north of Austin last week yet couldn't break away during business hours to meet with Brian for a local pickup.
I currently don't have any standalone subs in my dedicated theater room other than the high powered 14 inch drivers in my four towers - wired independently off/for LFE at the moment. My question involves placement of my two DIYs. "Where" I place them will determine build shape/size, of course internal volume will be as required. If I had a sub available I would perform a sub crawl to help ID the best locations, but I don't. Placement: I have both side wall centers available, a four foot space on either side of my center speaker (under screen between mains and center), as well as a two+ foot wide area to the outside of the front mains.

In my mind it comes down to either up front under screen on either side of the center (firing at the seating positions), or one each in the center of the side walls (firing at each other just in front of the seating position). If up front I would prefer forward firing. The side positions would accommodate forward or down firing builds(?). The room is carpeted/padded but I don't think that would hurt.

Just looking for your expert/seasoned thoughts and opinions on the above. I meant to do this last summer and didn't get to it. This year I'm on it..

Thanks all
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post #8565 of 9845
3/3/13 at 1:57pm
Can you get your hands on another sub to sub crawl with? The sub type (within reason) isn't going to change the results.
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post #8566 of 9845
3/3/13 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJSmitty View Post

Afternoon all,
I know there are other subwoofer threads and this isn't necessarily specific to Rythmik, yet given my build being Rythmik I figured I'd start here.smile.gif I'm planning on two DIY Rythmik 1510 kits. Was actually just north of Austin last week yet couldn't break away during business hours to meet with Brian for a local pickup.
I currently don't have any standalone subs in my dedicated theater room other than the high powered 14 inch drivers in my four towers - wired independently off/for LFE at the moment. My question involves placement of my two DIYs. "Where" I place them will determine build shape/size, of course internal volume will be as required. If I had a sub available I would perform a sub crawl to help ID the best locations, but I don't. Placement: I have both side wall centers available, a four foot space on either side of my center speaker (under screen between mains and center), as well as a two+ foot wide area to the outside of the front mains.

In my mind it comes down to either up front under screen on either side of the center (firing at the seating positions), or one each in the center of the side walls (firing at each other just in front of the seating position). If up front I would prefer forward firing. The side positions would accommodate forward or down firing builds(?). The room is carpeted/padded but I don't think that would hurt.

Just looking for your expert/seasoned thoughts and opinions on the above. I meant to do this last summer and didn't get to it. This year I'm on it..

Thanks all

Since there are so many factors that will influence in-room response, it is entirely impossible to know for sure what positions will be best without measuring or at least listening. If that is not possible, I would build the shape and type that will give you the most flexibility in placement options and then experiment within those limits. At least with two subs you will likely be able to obtain a reasonably flat response.
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post #8567 of 9845
3/3/13 at 7:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

Can you get your hands on another sub to sub crawl with? The sub type (within reason) isn't going to change the results.

+1. Or hook up only the LF driver in one of your towers and move it around?

The room is a regular shape, there are room mode calculators on the 'net that can help.
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post #8568 of 9845
3/4/13 at 10:31am
Thanks gents,
To answer each:

Yes, I do need to just find a suitable sub that I can experiment with:).
- Using one of the towers would be too much "fun". - They are spiked and set in the carpet and weigh in at almost 140lbs each.
- I do have an older large center channel speaker with a powered 10 inch driver that would be easy to use like a sub. However, I don't know how dynamic it would be in that capacity - as mentioned above it may do the trick though.
- Yes, my room is pretty basic/sealed/regular shaped with exception to it is a rectangle yet configured where its width is greater than its depth. I do like LFE and could probably get by with a single sub but also like to build things and with the DIY kits I can have two for near the price of one gloss F15HP. And yes, my personally diagnosed OCD makes me have matching items in the theater.. - But of course all in the name of a flat/well blended bass response. biggrin.gif

Do you sub experts have any comments on "down-firing" designs. I do like them given their damage friendly aspect - my kids are older yet a vacuum or foot can easily come in contact given the front firing drivers proximity to the ground. I do prefer the "driver at you" look best however and the theater is off limits for horseplay... biggrin.gif

Thanks again.

KJ
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post #8569 of 9845
3/4/13 at 11:11am
For most installations down or forward firing won't matter. I have a mild preference for forward but based upon testing done in the primordial past and with higher crossover frequencies than I normally use (I typically cross over around 50 - 60 Hz). The wavelengths are so long it really doesn't matter... OTOH, training the kids some things must be left alone is a good plan. Nowhere near foolproof, but does provide a nice upgrade path, albeit involuntary... smile.gif
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post #8570 of 9845
3/4/13 at 4:19pm
Ok now...I ordered on the 27th... I want me sub smile.gif

I am chomping at the bit. I want to hear this bad boy. FV15HP baby here I come!
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post #8571 of 9845
3/4/13 at 4:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie01 View Post

Ok now...I ordered on the 27th... I want me sub smile.gif

I am chomping at the bit. I want to hear this bad boy. FV15HP baby here I come!

Just got mine a couple of weeks ago. Loving it more everyday as I'm getting it dialed in. You won't be disappointed.
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post #8572 of 9845
3/4/13 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie01 View Post

Ok now...I ordered on the 27th... I want me sub smile.gif

I am chomping at the bit. I want to hear this bad boy. FV15HP baby here I come!

One of the best pre-arrival pieces of advice I received here before mine arrived was... prep the lady of the house on the size. It's a big sub, but well packed and double boxed seems like a washing machine.

Oh man that first listening session, gooood times. What has been heard, cannot be unheard.
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post #8573 of 9845
3/4/13 at 6:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

One of the best pre-arrival pieces of advice I received here before mine arrived was... prep the lady of the house on the size. It's a big sub, but well packed and double boxed seems like a washing machine.

Oh man that first listening session, gooood times. What has been heard, cannot be unheard.

Lol...I got a big box out yesterday night and showed it to my wife...then I took out the measure tape and showed her how much larger the subwoofer was.

I went to youtube and showed her pictures too. She is about as ready as I can get her. Now I think I will need some help next year when I want a second one!
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post #8574 of 9845
3/4/13 at 7:44pm
I made a cardboard box of the fv15 and put it in the living room to get a better sense of the size and to see if it could really fit. If i could sell my wife using an ugly cardboard box then the beautiful piano black finish would be a welcome sight. We are both enoying the sub.
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post #8575 of 9845
3/4/13 at 8:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie01 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

One of the best pre-arrival pieces of advice I received here before mine arrived was... prep the lady of the house on the size. It's a big sub, but well packed and double boxed seems like a washing machine.

Oh man that first listening session, gooood times. What has been heard, cannot be unheard.

Lol...I got a big box out yesterday night and showed it to my wife...then I took out the measure tape and showed her how much larger the subwoofer was.

I went to youtube and showed her pictures too. She is about as ready as I can get her. Now I think I will need some help next year when I want a second one!

Wise man, well done.

The second was actually a pretty easy sell for me, the first was rougher. 1) the first one made such a big improvement impact the value was very clear to her. 2) She's a quality snob and this thing is high build quality, the wife loves it. 3) duals can be placed symmetrically (and even if it ends up not being best if it's a path to duals...well it still flatter then 1 sub)
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post #8576 of 9845
3/4/13 at 11:43pm
Brian, any plan to have an 18" Servo sub to compete with those bad boys Captivator or Submersive HP? That would be awesome. Thanks.
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post #8577 of 9845
3/5/13 at 5:45am
I recently ordered a LV12R. It is set to arrive in a couple days. smile.gif

I was just wondering about placement.

Due to the small size of my living room (11'x16") and my girlfriend's unnecessary furnishings, I only have a couple places I can realistically place it. The pic is where it makes the most logistical sense for my room.

But I am concerned about a few things:
1) About how far from the wall does it need to be?
2) Will that heat/air conditioning vent likely affect sound (basically I am thinking the LV12R might shoot frequencies right into an open metal container)?
3) Will the heat/air conditioning hurt the LV12R in anyway (I am guessing the air conditioning might actually be good for it, but the heat not so much)?
4) I know subs are not supposed to be placed in a corner, will that 6" protrusion matter much?

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post #8578 of 9845
3/5/13 at 7:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goride View Post

I recently ordered a LV12R. It is set to arrive in a couple days. smile.gif

I was just wondering about placement.

Due to the small size of my living room (11'x16") and my girlfriend's unnecessary furnishings, I only have a couple places I can realistically place it. The pic is where it makes the most logistical sense for my room.

But I am concerned about a few things:
1) About how far from the wall does it need to be?
2) Will that heat/air conditioning vent likely affect sound (basically I am thinking the LV12R might shoot frequencies right into an open metal container)?
3) Will the heat/air conditioning hurt the LV12R in anyway (I am guessing the air conditioning might actually be good for it, but the heat not so much)?
4) I know subs are not supposed to be placed in a corner, will that 6" protrusion matter much?


The recommended clearance from the wall is at least 6", and remember that the dimensions of the sub are 16" (W) x 22" (H) x 20-1/2" (D). With the recommended clearance, the sub would most likely come right up to the carpet, and about as high as the TV stand. Subs are often placed in corners for additional gain due to corner loading, so you have to listen how you like the sound when you place the sub there. Your room might or might not need the additional loading. If it sounds boomy in the corner, try another place with the required wall clearance.

My guess is that heat is not a friend to the electronics on the back of the sub, particularly over a prolonged period of time, with hot air blowing right into the sub's port. But, I would let Brian chime in regarding the air/heat vent, as he'd know the tolerances of the parts used.
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post #8579 of 9845
3/5/13 at 7:17am
Heater vent. Just saying; hot/cold air.

(Raaj, I see you covered this point)
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post #8580 of 9845
3/5/13 at 10:28am
Given the 6 inch spacing from the wall you could easily affix a vent cover/redirector that would direct the conditioned air up and away from the Sub. May need to perform a little DIY/Mod to ensure the "vent director" doesn’t rattle given the LV12R's jet blast.. biggrin.gif
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