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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 317

post #9481 of 15162
Quote:
Originally Posted by KcG704 View Post

Unless I paid $225 more fore piano black. Which I am to frugal to do LoL...

KCG, FV15HP will become available again May 27. So the wait is not too long if you change your mind. We want you to get the one works best for you.
post #9482 of 15162
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

I have had ESLs and Magnepans with passive 1st and 2nd order crossovers. For the LF crossover, I much prefer higher orders; the panels do not like big bass signals. The mid/tweeter crossovers, maybe... I ended up with an active 3rd-order between Maggies and subwoofer in my last design (years ago). The passives left the distortion too high and dynamic range more constricted because they didn't roll off the bass fast enough where I set them. The L-R designs that preserve phase as well as amplitude at the crossover seem to do well and that is what I am currently using.

All my preference, natch.

Yeah Don, Magneplanars do try to reproduce very low frequencies, and have a really good bass quality and character. Quads, however, start rolling off far higher than Maggies, and are pretty much gone by 40hz (which is why they need subs). And being SO transparent (I've had Magneplanar IU's and ID's, Infinity RS-Ib's---with EMIT mids and tweeters, RTR ESL tweeters and now Quads, and in the area of transparency, ESL's are just unmatched. Of course, the other panels do some things better than ESLs. You gotta prioritize!), they ruthlessly reveal everything upstream of them, including active cross-overs. Even with a higher-order x-over, Quads are still not going to play loud, and the grain and/or dryness of most x-overs is too high a penalty to pay for a couple dB, ya know? I'd really love a Marchland tube x-over (the one Harvey Rosenberg endorsed), but I could buy a Harley for what one of those cost. Again, priorities!
post #9483 of 15162
I have had Quads in my system but never owned them. Gorgeous mids, as you'd expect, hated their LF and the top end never quite sounded "right" to me. Back them Decca ribbons were a common addition. I heard an HQD system that was pretty amazing, way back in the early 80's... Nothing like a pair or quad of 24" subs driven by a few kW to shake things up. Back to reality, and Quads, I used a passive second-order (LC) line filter to roll off the bass to the Quads. Without that, I was overloading them too often on strong bass, things like the old Sheffield Drum record and such. smile.gif I built my own, and at the time also had an ARC crossover that did a decent job (but was dedicated to other uses). Marchand makes passive crossovers too, though even those are not cheap (~$1k IIRC). I first tried a simple first-order filter but when I put the crossover where I liked it the roll-off was too slow. It's all preference, though.

I have been thinking about trying Roger Sander's speakers -- their place is not too far from me and they've invited me up, just never found time to get there. Partly because I can't afford to walk out with new speakers, much as I'd like them... I've always liked ESLs but never actually owned a pair (though heard many through the years). Maggies offer a different set of trades and I have been happy with them, especially since they added the ribbon tweeter.

I set up several IRS systems, and had IRS-II's for a time, but back them the reliability of EMITs and EMIMs was less than desired, and I fell in love with the Maggie sound despite the bass and dynamic range drawbacks compared to the IRS. Plus they took up a little less floor space, and were orders of magnitude easier onthe wallet!

Small world - Don

p.s. To add some relevance to this thread, back then I decided servo subs were the only things that would integrate well with panels, ESLs or Maggies, without spending a major fortune on subs and amps. I rolled my own, but am very happy to have found Brian and Rythmik for my current system. Compared to the other subs I auditioned, amazing performance and value, not too mention a very dedicated designer.
post #9484 of 15162
I agree with everything you said Don, all true. I have the Koval Mod in my Quads, which deals with the highs. The penalty of it is an even smaller sweet spot. With Quads, they can't be your only speaker if you want to be able to listen at close to room filling volume with some music. The solution is easy---another set of speakers! I have two of Brian's (and Danny's at GR) sub set-ups, one specifically to fill in the bottom of the Quads (GR Open Baffle SW12-16FR double pairs in W-Frames) for my first love, Baroque and Acoustic Roots Music (old Blues, Hillbilly, Bluegrass old and new, non-mainstream Country---i.e.Buddy Miller, and Singer-Songwriter). And a pair of DIY F15HP's for the electric system, with various speakers (restored ESS TranStatics at the moment---Kef B139 Woofer and 5" Midrange with 3 RTR ESL Tweeters per side), and to load the room with bass "shudders" as I call them---large scale works (Symphonies, electric R & R). Couldn't do either without Brian and Danny's mighty fine products! By the way.....if you know anyone looking for a pair Wilson Wham's (Dave's original modular speaker with an 18 and two B-139's per side), Brian Berdan will probably sell his R.I.P. Dad's if he got the right offer. At Brooks Berdan Ltd. in Monrovia, CA.
Edited by BDP24 - 5/2/13 at 11:16am
post #9485 of 15162
Thanks BDP24, though no can do on the Wilson (actually it is "WAMM", Wilson Audio Modular Monitor). I do remember the first time I heard Wilson, quite a revelation compared to a lot of the late 70's/early 80's speaker lines. The WAMM was actually built off a concept he had using DQ-10's IIRC.

I always thought the B139 sort of an unsung hero...

Me, I keep wondering what another F12 or two would do in my little room, but with everything else going on I rarely visit the media room, and there's that durn college fund to fill (one down this month, one to go, but job market and such being what it is we may be seeing a lot of the older one for a while yet).

These days I am stunned at the way prices have risen, and yet marvel at the designs Brian and others have done while keeping prices at least reasonable. Always nice to have a few giant-killers around. smile.gif
post #9486 of 15162
The outrageous prices I blame on two people: Dave Wilson with his Watt Puppies, and Mark Levinson with his original John Curl designed solid state stuff from the 70's. Bravo Brian, and all high-value hi-fi!
post #9487 of 15162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift View Post

Jim - Check out the album: BASS BOY song title "I Love Big Speakers" and let us know what ya think?

Got it, on the bass flutter in the 1/2 to 3/4 range (happens twice) part of the song it scared me for a minute until I turned everything down and replayed, it was still present.

Some solid bass on that one.

Jason
post #9488 of 15162
I've posted my review of the Rythmik LV12R. For anyone interested in reading it you can click on this link.
post #9489 of 15162
Thanks for the review Jim! I have a couple questions... u mentioned u liked the sub on the low extension setting, was that for movies and music? I personally like low on movies and low/Med on music depending on music type and my mood.

Also what did u have the sub set to volume wise? Mine 55% on the sub and 3.5 on my reciever.

You should also check out man with the iron fists using the lv12r. I really liked how it produced many bass emphasized scenes. I was very impressed with the quality
post #9490 of 15162
Another great review Jim, very well done sir.

I'm sure that will help many folks with their future purchasing decisions wink.gif
post #9491 of 15162
great review...however that thing looks cheap for a rythmik sub(except for the amp). not knocking it, maybe the pictures are not doing it any justice. Sound quality is what matters and it sounds like from Jims review it is a real performer.
post #9492 of 15162
The look of the inside off it along with the bracing reminds me of one of Erich's DIY flat pack sub builds. But let's not kids ourselves the LV12R is more of a budget build, I'd rather see the value go into the quality of the driver and amp not the finish inside of the enclosure.
post #9493 of 15162
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

But let's not kids ourselves the LV12R is more of a budget build, I'd rather see the value go into the quality of the driver and amp not the finish inside of the enclosure.

That is the design objective of the LV12R. In short, we are asking ourselves if the conventional nonservo approach with amp A bundled with driver B fully exploits the potential of the driver, the amp, or even the fully braced enclosure. The answer is no. There is always a room for improvement in that interface and solution is servo. And our servo is scalable. Scalable means it can be applied to from inexpensive models all the way to more expensive one and all have the same audible difference.

BTW some may think the driver is just another off-the-shelf driver, but we put in shorting ring in the driver. So the driver is not as plain as the appearance. Money is spent in some area that we cannot see from outside smile.gif So in short, with this entry level sub, the goal is to make a well balanced driver/amp/enclosure and let the servo bring out the best of the combination. So for basshead81, if you want to find the hero in that combination, I don't think you can see one, but you certainly can hear one smile.gif You see multitude of components there, but there is only one sound coming out of it.
post #9494 of 15162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

That is the design objective of the LV12R. In short, we are asking ourselves if the conventional nonservo approach with amp A bundled with driver B fully exploits the potential of the driver, the amp, or even the fully braced enclosure. The answer is no. There is always a room for improvement in that interface and solution is servo. And our servo is scalable. Scalable means it can be applied to from inexpensive models all the way to more expensive one and all have the same audible difference.

BTW some may think the driver is just another off-the-shelf driver, but we put in shorting ring in the driver. So the driver is not as plain as the appearance. Money is spent in some area that we cannot see from outside smile.gif So in short, with this entry level sub, the goal is to make a well balanced driver/amp/enclosure and let the servo bring out the best of the combination. So for basshead81, if you want to find the hero in that combination, I don't think you can see one, but you certainly can hear one smile.gif You see multitude of components there, but there is only one sound coming out of it.

thanks for the response brian! fwiw i didnt mean to ruffle any feathers, so my apologies if I did. I guess I should of took a different approach with my post. Im sure the LV12 is a great sub, I guess what I was trying to say is that If you took the rythmik logo off, I would not be able to tell that its a rythmik sub. It simply does not appear to have the fit and finish of your higher end models. however that would not stop me from purchasing one, sound quality and performance is what matters most. actually when I first was sub shopping they were first on my list and I contacted you guys about the LV12.
post #9495 of 15162
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

The look of the inside off it along with the bracing reminds me of one of Erich's DIY flat pack sub builds. But let's not kids ourselves the LV12R is more of a budget build, I'd rather see the value go into the quality of the driver and amp not the finish inside of the enclosure.
Agreed!
post #9496 of 15162
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

great review...however that thing looks cheap for a rythmik sub(except for the amp). not knocking it, maybe the pictures are not doing it any justice. Sound quality is what matters and it sounds like from Jims review it is a real performer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

The look of the inside off it along with the bracing reminds me of one of Erich's DIY flat pack sub builds. But let's not kids ourselves the LV12R is more of a budget build, I'd rather see the value go into the quality of the driver and amp not the finish inside of the enclosure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

That is the design objective of the LV12R. In short, we are asking ourselves if the conventional nonservo approach with amp A bundled with driver B fully exploits the potential of the driver, the amp, or even the fully braced enclosure. The answer is no. There is always a room for improvement in that interface and solution is servo. And our servo is scalable. Scalable means it can be applied to from inexpensive models all the way to more expensive one and all have the same audible difference.

BTW some may think the driver is just another off-the-shelf driver, but we put in shorting ring in the driver. So the driver is not as plain as the appearance. Money is spent in some area that we cannot see from outside smile.gif So in short, with this entry level sub, the goal is to make a well balanced driver/amp/enclosure and let the servo bring out the best of the combination. So for basshead81, if you want to find the hero in that combination, I don't think you can see one, but you certainly can hear one smile.gif You see multitude of components there, but there is only one sound coming out of it.

I agree with the general assessment that it won't win any beauty contests, especially in the Matte finish I have (the Oak might look better, but I haven't seen it myself so I can't really say). That's actually why I mentioned it needed something to dress up the appearance, like a company logo on the grill. But Brian's design goal of spending the money on elements that contribute directly to sound quality is spot on, which becomes very evident when you hear one in real life. She's may not be a 'looker' but she is a 'sounder'... biggrin.gif
post #9497 of 15162
Hi folks, does any of you use four subwoofers for music? Are these subs spread across the room or are they stacked on top of each other (2x2 subs)?

Chris
post #9498 of 15162
Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post

Thanks for the review Jim! I have a couple questions... u mentioned u liked the sub on the low extension setting, was that for movies and music? I personally like low on movies and low/Med on music depending on music type and my mood.

When I was done playing around with the various options I pretty much settled on Low for everything. For the most part the majority of time I spend with a sub is watching movies and TV with just short bursts of music, so it wasn't necessary to get the last bit of detail for me. If I was going to being listening to music for an extended period of time I probably would have flipped it to Med or Hi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post

Also what did u have the sub set to volume wise? Mine 55% on the sub and 3.5 on my reciever.

If you were directly facing the amp my gain would have been around the 1 o'clock position, so probably about the same as you. My receiver was set at 0dB, but I was using a Y adapter for the inputs. I tend to prefer the receiver having lower output and the sub amp set higher to compensate. It seems there's less distortion when the input signal is lower, so I adjust the sub amp when it comes time to raise the output.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post

You should also check out man with the iron fists using the lv12r. I really liked how it produced many bass emphasized scenes. I was very impressed with the quality

Thanks for the suggestion - I'll add it to my list. I'm going to pick up a few new movies to increase my collection of testing material. I'm getting a little tired of using the same ones. smile.gif
post #9499 of 15162
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

I've posted my review of the Rythmik LV12R. For anyone interested in reading it you can click on this link.
Excellent review Jim. Do you have any plans to review th FV15HP in the future?
post #9500 of 15162
YEAH!!
i want to know too
post #9501 of 15162
Jim says the lv12r is an exceptional value at the 650 dollar range. I was one of the luckey ones who purchased it for 550 deliverd to my door step! What a slam dunk that was for everyone who got it at that price! I'm sure your all very happy with your selection as I doubt there is a 550 dollar sub besides DIY that can even compete
post #9502 of 15162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Do you have any plans to review th FV15HP in the future?

There are no current plans for me to look at the FV15HP, but I did get the opportunity to hear one at a GTG last year. Two things stuck with me from that experience; it's really big and it has the ability to produce a tremendous amount of very deep bass. I was quite impressed, which is actually what lead me to contact Brian when the LV12R was released. I wanted to hear what the "little brother" could do.
post #9503 of 15162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Excellent review Jim. Do you have any plans to review th FV15HP in the future?

Jim does great reviews but honestly there's really no point in having him do a review on the FV15HP, Josh Ricci has already do a great one too along with all the measurements. Now the F25 is another story, I think it's about time to jump on that one Jim! biggrin.gif
post #9504 of 15162
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

There are no current plans for me to look at the FV15HP, but I did get the opportunity to hear one at a GTG last year. Two things stuck with me from that experience; it's really big and it has the ability to produce a tremendous amount of very deep bass. I was quite impressed, which is actually what lead me to contact Brian when the LV12R was released. I wanted to hear what the "little brother" could do.
Sounds like there is a possibility sometime down the road? I'd really like to see you review this sub because;

1) I like your writing style and
2) since we both have a fondness for Frank Marino, I have more respect for your opinions. (I know, I know........sounds silly, doesn't it?!!!) biggrin.gif
post #9505 of 15162
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Jim does great reviews but honestly there's really no point in having him do a review on the FV15HP, Josh Ricci has already do a great one too along with all the measurements. Now the F25 is another story, I think it's about time to jump on that one Jim! biggrin.gif
I musta missed that one. Gotta link?
post #9506 of 15162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

I musta missed that one. Gotta link?

Here you go!!!

FV15HP Data-Bass Measurements
post #9507 of 15162
Here are some interesting comments of dominguez1 re: Rythmik FV15HP.
post #9508 of 15162
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Jim does great reviews but honestly there's really no point in having him do a review on the FV15HP, Josh Ricci has already do a great one too along with all the measurements. Now the F25 is another story, I think it's about time to jump on that one Jim! biggrin.gif

Yea, good point; anything that Josh reviewed is not something I could really add much too, so it's probably not worth it. Maybe I'll discuss the new L12 with Brian though - I just recently published the PB1000 and SB1000 in the same review, so perhaps I could do something similar to that.

Regarding the F25... that might be the first sub I can't move by myself. Wanna come over and help me lug it around? tongue.gif
post #9509 of 15162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Sounds like there is a possibility sometime down the road? I'd really like to see you review this sub because;

1) I like your writing style and
2) since we both have a fondness for Frank Marino, I have more respect for your opinions. (I know, I know........sounds silly, doesn't it?!!!) biggrin.gif

1) Thank you. I often wondered how I might do if I actually had some formal training. smile.gif
2) Sadly, his webpage still says "There are NO tour dates booked for 2012 at this time". Considering it's May of 2013, and they're still talking about 2012, I take that as a bad sign. frown.gif
post #9510 of 15162
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Yea, good point; anything that Josh reviewed is not something I could really add much too, so it's probably not worth it. Maybe I'll discuss the new L12 with Brian though - I just recently published the PB1000 and SB1000 in the same review, so perhaps I could do something similar to that.

Regarding the F25... that might be the first sub I can't move by myself. Wanna come over and help me lug it around? tongue.gif

If you're buying the plane ticket I'll gladly come over and help out! tongue.gif
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