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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 319

post #9541 of 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post

You're in the unique position of answering the question that has been posed a few times lately: F15 vs. FV15HP, the differences between the two, for HT and music?

Well I'm probably not the best to lay judgement on this as I'm 54 and my hearing is damaged from years of abuse and work. But for HT, its a no brainer to me, go for the FV15HP for its tremendous output. There is no doubt the sheer output of the FV15 clearly tops the F15, and I have a huge room ~ 7000 cubic feet. And relying on my music memory, I give the nod to the F15. My F15 just disappeared in my room on delicate detailed music. And I listen to much more music than watching movies so.......I'd say if a guy was 70/30 music/HT, I'd go sealed. The only reason I replace my F15 is because it drowned in a flood.

But Brian has stated in his opinion, the differences between the two models are like splitting hairs. And I trust Brian's ears and opinion more than my own. He designed and built the subs. And I'll say it again here for anybody on the fence, Brian is a stand up guy......you will find no better service and attention in the business, imo. You may have to be patient sometimes, its pretty much a one man band assembling and testing, but its worth the brief wait in the end.
post #9542 of 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by polizzio View Post

Brian (rythmik here) has told me in the past his amps on, but idling (no signal) draws about 8 or 9 watts. So like if you left your rythmik sub ON all the time, with no signal, its virtually no different versus the "auto signal position" on the switch. I too have a FV15HP now, and had owned an F15 in the past.

I question your ammeter accuracy. 1.5 amps = 180 watts @ 120 volts. Seems rather high to me.

Typo...left off the 1 in 180.

The best way to do this is use "kill-a-watt" meter watt-meter. You can buy one from Home Depot, around $25. I have several of them. The downside is however the device has limited life time. 180W steady state is unlikely. The heatsink can become quite warm.
post #9543 of 15137
Good answer. I asked for others out there, as I already have mine (half of them, actually). I'm responsible for my own needing to be patient, 'cause I ordered my amps with a minor mod, which Brian has to make time for. As for your hearing, we're lucky that it's the highs that go with age, not the lows. I got myself some of the custom-molded ear plugs with attenuators twenty five years ago---best money I ever spent. Shoulda done it fifty years ago! I have a mild-to-moderate case of Tinnitus, and can't hear 15khz anymore. The loudest sound I ever heard? I played with a guy who had a Guild Starfire plug into a Blackface Twin Reverb. I hate Twin Reverbs (65 watts from four 6L6's and two JBL D120's)---long live the Deluxe Reverb (28 watts from two EL84's and one 10"---crank it to ten for the best tone you've ever heard!).
post #9544 of 15137
I am still confused with the slope setting 80hz/24 and 50hz 24. Do these setting automatically gets 24 db slope? Or do i need to adjust the frequency knob to adjust the roll of rate?
post #9545 of 15137
hello
tell please to me two subwoofers of ds1505/a370 to my room of 14 square meters will suffice

two ds1510 it will seems to me superfluous

designs sealed box/ the closed box
post #9546 of 15137
Me too BDP24, I also have a moderate case of tinnitus. I cannot hear much above 8khz, and 8khz has to be pretty hot for me to hear. The ringing in my ears at times is pretty aggravating. I have come to really appreciate silence now, and I favor quiet. But I have no one to blame but myself for the loss. (loud music, shooting, drag cars, work related noise, ect)

Recently I have actually pondered selling my sub and limiting my exposures to louder sounds/noise/music in a big way. For years I have worn ear plugs while cutting the yard, using power tools, or pretty much any elevated noise exposures. When your hearing is impaired and the ringing will not stop, you think of making drastic changes in behavior.

So I'll say....guys think hard about your long term hearing when your having a good time, blowing it out. Doctors can repair many things these days but when your hearing is damaged, there is no fix for that. Just constant low level ringing.
post #9547 of 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

The best way to do this is use "kill-a-watt" meter watt-meter. You can buy one from Home Depot, around $25. I have several of them. The downside is however the device has limited life time. 180W steady state is unlikely. The heatsink can become quite warm.
180 watts "standby" was for all equipment.......... 2 Halo amplifiers, Halo C-2 processor, Rythmik FV15HP sub, 60" Sony display and Oppo blu-ray player.

However, last evening I was able to borrow a neighbor's ammeter and as I suspected, it proved that my ammeter is defective.

New results are as follows;

all equipment unplugged from outlets - 0 amps
all equipment plugged in and on standby, .9 amps total
2 Halo amplifiers, C-2 and Subwoofer turned on and idling, 2.6 amps total
5 Cooling fans and 2 computer monitors, 3.2 amps total
TV and Oppo on and all equipment idling, 4.8 amps total
With the C-2 set to -12db, Prometheus chapter 32 when Alien Spaceship tries to leave planet (loud loud with awesome bass and effects) 6-8 amps with a 9 amp peak

So now I am showing a current draw of 108 watts with everything on standby. With everything up and running and that loud Prometheus scene playing, my peak was a more realistic and manageable 9 amps or 1080 watts.

Sounds a bit more reasonable, eh?!!!
post #9548 of 15137
I have to put a CD on when I go to sleep. It's especially bad after playing a gig. The Tinnitus (mine sounds like tape hiss, but with a tone---note---to it. And the pitch is different in each ear. If the two made a harmony (!) it wouldn't be as bad as the dissonance my ears "play") is loud enough to keep me awake, but luckily the sound from a CD masks the Tinnitus. The 15khz signal I couldn't hear was from the Audiogram test I took at the time of getting my molds made. The next frequency below that was 10k, which I COULD hear. But that was a long time ago. Who knows if I can still hear 10k? And here's something else you youngins should know: Tinnitus reduces your hearings' low-level resolution and dynamic range capability. Bummer, dude.
Edited by BDP24 - 5/10/13 at 10:12am
post #9549 of 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post

I have to put a CD on when I go to sleep. It's especially bad after playing a gig. The Tinnitus (mine sounds like tape hiss, but with a tone---note---to it. And the pitch is different in each ear. If the two made a harmony (!) it wouldn't be as bad as the dissonance my ears "play") is loud enough to keep me awake, but luckily the sound from a CD masks the Tinnitus. The 15khz signal I couldn't hear was from the Audiogram test I took at the time of getting my molds made. The next frequency below that was 10k, which I COULD hear. But that was a long time ago. Who knows if I can still hear 10k? And here's somthing else you youngins should know: Tinnitus reduces your hearings' low-level resolution and dynamic range capability. It's like adding harmonic distortion to the sound coming from your speakers. Bummer, dude.
I too have a mild case. Started the morning of January 16th, 2012.........at least that's when I first noticed it. Fortunately it's not oppressively loud and I can still hear sounds up 15khz. One thing that factors into my situation is I seem to also have a low frequency hum in my right ear that varies in intensity and is only audible in a complete silence situation. Once any sound is present, it instantly goes away. It's intersting to note that my right side was the side my Bass player was on when we played(I'm the drummer).........and we played VERY loud.

One thing I found over on the Tinnitus Scare thread that REALLY helps with sleep is this Sound and Sleep machine. Check it out, it's available on Amazon for just under a hundred bucks.

https://soundofsleep.com/natural-sleep/tinnitus/
post #9550 of 15137
Thanks a million, gonna read all about it right now.
post #9551 of 15137
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1214550/official-rythmik-audio-subwoofer-thread/8100#post_22897630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

The difference of using mid damping and low damping is that in the former, you can further boost the low end response after running roomEQ by turning to low damping setting whereas in the latter, where you use low damping for roomEQ, you can pretty much only cut, not boost after roomEQ. Keep in mind this is a guideline, but an absolute step as it can vary from case to case. I encourage customers to share with us their exprience.

From specs of LV12R:
Bass extension (damping) settings:
Low (19hz, Q=1.1)
Med (22hz, Q=0.9)
High (24hz, Q=0.8)

Can some one tell me if I change the extension (damping) from low to mid will I be boosting or cutting the output?
RoomEQ was run with Low setting.
Edited by isagreg - 5/10/13 at 2:55pm
post #9552 of 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by isagreg View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1214550/official-rythmik-audio-subwoofer-thread/8100#post_22897630
From specs of LV12R:
Bass extension (damping) settings:
Low (19hz, Q=1.1)
Med (22hz, Q=0.9)
High (24hz, Q=0.8)

Can some one tell me if I change the extension (damping) from low to mid will I be boosting or cutting the output?
RoomEQ was run with Low setting.

If you run your room calibration with the damping set to "low" you can only cut the response. If you run the room calibration with the damping set to "mid" then after the calibration you can cut the response by switching the damping to "high" or you can boost the response by switching the damping to "low". This is how I set up my F12.
post #9553 of 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlundy57 View Post

If you run your room calibration with the damping set to "low" you can only cut the response. If you run the room calibration with the damping set to "mid" then after the calibration you can cut the response by switching the damping to "high" or you can boost the response by switching the damping to "low". This is how I set up my F12.

By response do you mean output (how loud it plays) or extension (how deep it plays)?

What's more interesting is that Brian recommends running RoomEQ with Low extension/ damping.

Brian wrote: "The reason to set the extension to 14hz/low damping is to avoid any of them do any boosting at the lower end bass."

Brian wrote: "The reason is RoomEQ has a target Frequency Response. It may boost bottom end bass depending on their software algorithm which varies from one to another. So the best strategy is to present the flattest anechoic response and let the roomEQ to address the "room" problem only, instead of trying to make up the deficiency. After room EQ is done, then we can put the extension/damping to whatever we want."


LV12R is the only Rythmik sub that doesn't have separate controls for extension and damping. They're combined, that is with F12 you can set extension to 14Hz with High damping (or 28Hz with Low damping), but with LV12R Low extension (19Hz) is also low damping.

It looks like Audyssey boosts the bass when the extension/ damping is set to Mid, and cuts too much when set to Low.
Edited by isagreg - 5/10/13 at 4:44pm
post #9554 of 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by isagreg View Post

By response do you mean output (how loud it plays) or extension (how deep it plays)?

What's more interesting is that Brian recommends running RoomEQ with Low extension/ damping.

Brian wrote: "The reason to set the extension to 14hz/low damping is to avoid any of them do any boosting at the lower end bass."

Brian wrote: "The reason is RoomEQ has a target Frequency Response. It may boost bottom end bass depending on their software algorithm which varies from one to another. So the best strategy is to present the flattest anechoic response and let the roomEQ to address the "room" problem only, instead of trying to make up the deficiency. After room EQ is done, then we can put the extension/damping to whatever we want."


LV12R is the only Rythmik sub that doesn't have separate controls for extension and damping. They're combined, that is with F12 you can set extension to 14Hz with High damping (or 28Hz with Low damping), but with LV12R Low extension (19Hz) is also low damping.

It looks like Audyssey boosts the bass when the extension/ damping is set to Mid, and cuts too much when set to Low.

Experiment. Try it one way then try it the other and see what you like best. I ran the EQ program 4 different times with different control settings on the sub until I found the combination I liked best. On the LV12R you've only got 3 settings so that is 3 experiments. Just remember to leave the sub's volume control where it was when you ran the EQ then use the AVR's speaker level setup to adjust the master volume for the sub.
post #9555 of 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by isagreg View Post


Brian wrote: "The reason is RoomEQ has a target Frequency Response. It may boost bottom end bass depending on their software algorithm which varies from one to another. So the best strategy is to present the flattest anechoic response and let the roomEQ to address the "room" problem only, instead of trying to make up the deficiency. After room EQ is done, then we can put the extension/damping to whatever we want."[/COLOR]

LV12R is the only Rythmik sub that doesn't have separate controls for extension and damping. They're combined, that is with F12 you can set extension to 14Hz with High damping (or 28Hz with Low damping), but with LV12R Low extension (19Hz) is also low damping.

Although the spec pages says the extension of low, mid, and high settings are 18hz, 22hz, and 24hz, respectively, I guess a graph can help customers visualize the difference:



Audyssey should not do much difference no matter how you adjust it or interpret it. The best way to verify this is get an SPL meter and run warble tones. At 20hz, changing the extension setting from LOW to MID, then to HI should give you -3db and -6db reading respectively. But at 40hz and above, the difference in reading should be almost zero. So I have no idea why this small difference can lead to large difference in Auto EQ.

Sometimes, customers have to improvise when they run into problems. There are a lot of things can go wrong. For instance, my Denon 3811 AVR's HDMI module were replaced once. How did I know it was Denon, not my Pioneer TV? Because I went through a series of tests to make sure my TV was not a problem. So you may need to do the same thing. Get an SPL meters and warble tone signals. Tabulate the frequency response at all 3 extension settings (the relative difference in reading is more important than the absolute values). If they are close to what I have above, then the next step is look at why Denon Audyssey did what it did (such as make sure the mic is good,...etc)
post #9556 of 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicardoJoa View Post

I am still confused with the slope setting 80hz/24 and 50hz 24. Do these setting automatically gets 24 db slope? Or do i need to adjust the frequency knob to adjust the roll of rate?

The 24db roll-off is made of one adjustable 12db plus one fixed 12db. The fixed 12db can be either at 50hz or at 80hz. The continous can be from 25hz to 120hz. If you want 24db roll-off at 50hz, you can just put the switch at 50hz and adjust the knob to 50hz. If you want the roll-off to be at 40hz, then you keep the switch at 50hz/24db, but you adjust the knob to 40hz position (or slightly below).
post #9557 of 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

The 24db roll-off is made of one adjustable 12db plus one fixed 12db. The fixed 12db can be either at 50hz or at 80hz. The continous can be from 25hz to 120hz. If you want 24db roll-off at 50hz, you can just put the switch at 50hz and adjust the knob to 50hz. If you want the roll-off to be at 40hz, then you keep the switch at 50hz/24db, but you adjust the knob to 40hz position (or slightly below).

Thank you for clearing that.
post #9558 of 15137
I have a 12 x 15 room and a $1300 budget.

Pretty much will be used for tv and movies but could see myself listening to more music in the future.

Im having trouble deciding between sealed and ported and 1 sub vs 2.

What would you feel would be the best option?
post #9559 of 15137
Long story short, I lost the original power cable that came with my FV15HP. Can somebody check their original power cable and let me know the gauge? I doubt it matters all that much, but I'm planning on buying a slightly longer one and I figure I might as well purchase the same gauge. I would greatly appreciate it!
post #9560 of 15137
Don't use the original 18awg type cord. Too wimpy IMHO. I went to the local computer recycle store here in town and was able to get a 10' 14awg cord for 5 bucks.
post #9561 of 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody777 View Post

Long story short, I lost the original power cable that came with my FV15HP. Can somebody check their original power cable and let me know the gauge? I doubt it matters all that much, but I'm planning on buying a slightly longer one and I figure I might as well purchase the same gauge. I would greatly appreciate it!

I don't have a "V" but should be the same cable. 18AWG.

And you are correct, AWG won't matter as long as its 18 or better (18, 16, 14 etc). In all reality, 18 is pretty light weight..

Cheers
post #9562 of 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottyp3 View Post

I have a 12 x 15 room and a $1300 budget.

Pretty much will be used for tv and movies but could see myself listening to more music in the future.

Im having trouble deciding between sealed and ported and 1 sub vs 2.

What would you feel would be the best option?

Given your room size I would consider the F15HP.
post #9563 of 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottyp3 View Post

I have a 12 x 15 room and a $1300 budget.

Pretty much will be used for tv and movies but could see myself listening to more music in the future.

Im having trouble deciding between sealed and ported and 1 sub vs 2.

What would you feel would be the best option?

I have an F12 (sealed) sub in a room that is about this size and open to another room of the same size (20 x 25 total) and it does everything I could want it to with plenty of room to spare. Plus I can hear it upstairs when my wife is watching movies and I'm reading. I use this system for both music and movies.
post #9564 of 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Don't use the original 18awg type cord. Too wimpy IMHO. I went to the local computer recycle store here in town and was able to get a 10' 14awg cord for 5 bucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KJSmitty View Post

I don't have a "V" but should be the same cable. 18AWG.

And you are correct, AWG won't matter as long as its 18 or better (18, 16, 14 etc). In all reality, 18 is pretty light weight..

Cheers

Thanks guys!!!
post #9565 of 15137
Hi, it feels warm to revisit this thread after years of absence.

I made a DIY F15 and have been enjoying it ever since. Now I have a receiver which has audyssey multEQ (yes long overdue) so I will need to redo all the calibrations.

I intend to let audyssey do the job as a starting point, then manually fine tune. What settings should I use on the Rythmik? Should I disable PEQ? How about phase, gain, filter, etc.

These questions may have been asked before, but I don't have the time to go through all these hundreds of pages. If someone could point to the official answer that would be appreciated.
post #9566 of 15137
hotjt133,

Read the installation guide for the F15/F15HP. This guide is for the PEQ3 amp but it works for the PEQ amp as well.


F15_F15HP_PEQ3_Installation_Guide.pdf 19k .pdf file
post #9567 of 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Don't use the original 18awg type cord. Too wimpy IMHO. I went to the local computer recycle store here in town and was able to get a 10' 14awg cord for 5 bucks.
The bigger (lowest gauge number---10 gauge wire is bigger than 12 gauge) the better (right, ladies?). Generic power cords (not High-End "Boutique" super cables) are cheap, may as well get one that will provide less resistance to the amp. Those 600 watts you have want current/volts/etc!
post #9568 of 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post

The bigger (lowest gauge number---10 gauge wire is bigger than 12 gauge) the better (right, ladies?). Generic power cords (not High-End "Boutique" super cables) are cheap, may as well get one that will provide less resistance to the amp. Those 600 watts you have want current/volts/etc!
Zactly!

Someone correct me if I am wrong but running a power cord that is too thin is much like having a governor on an engine. Substandard wire can only allow so much current to flow and if your amplifier demands more than what the cable is capable of delivering, then it stands to figure that the amplifier will be "throttled" so to speak, meaning it won't be able to deliver all the goods in those demanding loud passages.
post #9569 of 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Don't use the original 18awg type cord. Too wimpy IMHO. I went to the local computer recycle store here in town and was able to get a 10' 14awg cord for 5 bucks.
+1! 18 gauge isn't even enough wire for speaker cables, let alone a power amp. Get the heaviest gauge power cord you can find. But not one of those "Boutique" cords that can cost more than your whole sub, or complete system even! Interconnect and speaker cable differences can be heard on even a reasonably quality hi-fi, but power cord sonic differences? Only if you're the type of guy who listens to his demonstration discs, leaning forward with his eyes closed, listening for something "wrong" with your system, so that you can go spend some more money chasing the illusive Holy Grail, getting your newest hi-fi fix.
post #9570 of 15137
Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post

hotjt133,

Read the installation guide for the F15/F15HP. This guide is for the PEQ3 amp but it works for the PEQ amp as well.


F15_F15HP_PEQ3_Installation_Guide.pdf 19k .pdf file

Thanks! This is very helpful, but I wonder why you don't put into your web site.

Suggestions: Rythmik have produced a number of useful guides. The web site is info rich, however it is not designed in a way to quickly access. For example, in the top line "info Advise" link. Or in the FAQ section. However the FAQ is littered with dozens of plain text questions which makes a new user easy to lost.

These pdf guides should have their dedicated section in an easy to find position such as top bar or side bar so that people can quickly access them. This can also reduce your support efforts.
Edited by hotjt133 - 5/12/13 at 10:14pm
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