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Official Rythmik Audio Subwoofer thread - Page 330

post #9871 of 15221
jonny---Envy being one of the seven deadly sins, there are a lot of sinners in Rythmik-land right now. Awesome! Do you recommend the Anti-Mode with Rythmik subs? I'm seriously thinking of getting the new Dual.
Edited by BDP24 - 6/22/13 at 3:16pm
post #9872 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisakuku View Post

Thanks for the photos of your nice setup. I can also attest that Ascend Towers / Horizon with RAAL tweeters and Rythmik sealed subs are a great match. Any comments from Brian regarding using DS1510s with H800XLR3 amps (400W per driver vs 600W for H600PEQ3 in F15HP) and with F25's internal volume?

Jon asked for DS1510 with the expectation of future upgrade. But he knows that will be quite a while. DS1510 with HX800XLR3 is the right way to go only in the anticipation of future upgrade. Otherwise, the benefit is incremental.
post #9873 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

Jon asked for DS1510 with the expectation of future upgrade. But he knows that will be quite a while. DS1510 with HX800XLR3 is the right way to go only in the anticipation of future upgrade. Otherwise, the benefit is incremental.

Interesting, by future upgrade do you mean that there might be an F25HP version offered in the future, so he could upgrade just by swapping amps once one is available or am I completely misreading what you said?
post #9874 of 15221
F25HP - 1200w amazing))
but that it will be better
2 F25 vs 4 F15HP

f25 separate cabinet for loudspeakers?

whether there is a sense f25 1510 + 2 H600PEQ3
or nevertheless it is better 4 sub F15HP

4 installation in different places

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=content&id=80

f25 of a problem will send abroad
only parts

f25 1510 how many cost an upgrade ?
post #9875 of 15221
Quote:

Oh, goodie.....homework. tongue.gif

Okay, pages 384 to 475 and lecture notes, to be tested for on Wednesday's class. And remember, even if it wasn't mentioned in lecture, you're still responsible for it on the test. tongue.gif

Oooooh, I'm not going say anything professor.......can I have my grade now? tongue.gif

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 6/23/13 at 1:10am
post #9876 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unikym View Post

F25HP - 1200w amazing))
but that it will be better
2 F25 vs 4 F15HP

f25 separate cabinet for loudspeakers?

whether there is a sense f25 1510 + 2 H600PEQ3
or nevertheless it is better 4 sub F15HP

4 installation in different places

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=content&id=80

f25 of a problem will send abroad
only parts

f25 1510 how many cost an upgrade ?

Four F15HP's is definitely better than two F25's (with either 400w or 600w amps). Not because of maximum output, but because you can move the four subs for optimum placement in the room. The dual F25's allows only two positions. Of course, it's a lot more money. Might as well get four F25's!
post #9877 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyozero3 View Post

Thought you guys might like to see this.



Don't ask questions, just buy one. So easy to use, very effective.


I've been searching high and low for a U.S. dealer since you posted these photos (VERY nice setup!) and can't seem to find one. Does anyone have a link or links to a U.S. dealer with prices for this product?
post #9878 of 15221
You have to go though a Canadian company which ships from the U.S. eek.gif

Creative Sound Solution

As a suggestion, give serious consideration toward a miniDSP which one can check out at minidsp.com.
post #9879 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

You have to go though a Canadian company which ships from the U.S. eek.gif

Creative Sound Solution

As a suggestion, give serious consideration toward a miniDSP which one can check out at minidsp.com.
Thanks BeeMan. On quick glance it appears the miniDSP requires a computer to run the system.......correct? Being the old school dinosaur that I am, there is no computer available in my HT at this point in time. We may be getting our first laptop sometime soon so that may be a game changer and I'll be able to gently roll into the 21st century. LOL

ETA; I also am running a 7.1 system in all analog so I'm not sure that unless I change out my Parasound processor for something more current whether this miniDSP would work for me anyway.
post #9880 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisakuku View Post

Interesting, by future upgrade do you mean that there might be an F25HP version offered in the future, so he could upgrade just by swapping amps once one is available or am I completely misreading what you said?

Yes. Once a higher power HX amp is ready, it will be in same footprint as HX800.
post #9881 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

Yes. Once a higher power HX amp is ready, it will be in same footprint as HX800.

Thanks for clarifying, Brian. So what about the enclosure volume per driver in F25? Is it the same 3 cu.ft. as in F15/F15HP?
post #9882 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

I've been searching high and low for a U.S. dealer since you posted these photos (VERY nice setup!) and can't seem to find one. Does anyone have a link or links to a U.S. dealer with prices for this product?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

You have to go though a Canadian company which ships from the U.S. eek.gif

Creative Sound Solution

As a suggestion, give serious consideration toward a miniDSP which one can check out at minidsp.com.

SimpliFi Audio also sells them.
post #9883 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post

jonny---Envy being one of the seven deadly sins, there are a lot of sinners in Rythmik-land right now. Awesome! Do you recommend the Anti-Mode with Rythmik subs? I'm seriously thinking of getting the new Dual.

Haha, thanks.

Yeah, I'm a big fan of the AM units. They seem to work really well, and very quickly. No complaints. I think you can do slightly better with a BFD...but that takes hours.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/electronic-processing-equalization-devices/11699-testing-dspeaker-anti-mode-8033-a.html

That's an older review on the original AM. They have more filters now and are updated, so they can probably even do a better job now (just guessing).
post #9884 of 15221
my cases are ready
it was necessary to wait stuffings for subwoofers

http://fotkidepo.ru/?id=album:49240



I already think that it was necessary to do the amplifier not behind and with a side
or in the separate case the amplifier for convenience of access to it
Edited by Unikym - 6/24/13 at 11:21pm
post #9885 of 15221
Brian,

Any updates on the below? Pics? smile.gif

We are phasing out FV15 and replace it with a slightly smaller dual-port multi-tuned sub with 12" aluminum cone driver. It will be available in the summer.
post #9886 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Sounds like you want a lot of bass... You may have trouble matching a vented and non-vented sub as the response curves are different. I also wonder if you are sitting in a null, and/or simply prefer a much higher bass level than flat (no problem with that, you know what you like). You might put something bass-heavy on and move around a bit to see if the sound changes dramatically a little away from your usual listening position.

The sweet spot is not in the listening position. Unfortunately there is not much I can do about the placement of the sub - there are very, very limited placement options in the room.
post #9887 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

You can do the following to minimize the phase difference between sealed and our ported sub. In the F15, put the rumble filter on and leave the extension to 14hz and whatever damping. On the FV15, use the 1 port mode. This method is to minimize the phase delay on ported sub and at the same time add more phase delay to the sealed sub so that the two can have close phase response towards the bottom end (so that you don't get cancellation).

Cool. Thanks for the info.
post #9888 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMG_Roadster View Post

Unfortunately there is not much I can do about the placement of the sub - there are very, very limited placement options in the room.

I hate it when that happens. It seems to be an unwritten law that the null will take place at the main listening position where placement is most restricted.
post #9889 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I hate it when that happens. It seems to be an unwritten law that the null will take place at the main listening position where placement is most restricted.

Quote of the Day. So damn true too.
post #9890 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT78681 View Post

Brian,

Any updates on the below? Pics? smile.gif

We are phasing out FV15 and replace it with a slightly smaller dual-port multi-tuned sub with 12" aluminum cone driver. It will be available in the summer.

I am still working on it. I am still debating if we should use 12" aluminum or less expensive paper cone driver as the retail price difference can be up to $120. My dilemma is when potential customers base their purchase on price, it can almost price the more expensive version out and yet I cannot offer two types of same sub with only $120 difference, one with aluminum cone and another with less expensive paper cone. In the end, customers will compare this new sub with VTF-3 and that really sway us into using less expensive model just to just stay competitive.
post #9891 of 15221
qguy, regarding the question of more switch for the HPF, there is really no room for putting additional switch on the heatsink panel. We can do add a customized daughter board because request like this is still few which is best handled by customized add-on daughter boards.
post #9892 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

I am still working on it. I am still debating if we should use 12" aluminum or less expensive paper cone driver as the retail price difference can be up to $120. My dilemma is when potential customers base their purchase on price, it can almost price the more expensive version out and yet I cannot offer two types of same sub with only $120 difference, one with aluminum cone and another with less expensive paper cone. In the end, customers will compare this new sub with VTF-3 and that really sway us into using less expensive model just to just stay competitive.

If creating a dual 12" driver subwoofer (sealed or vented), please, use the aluminum driver. Brag up quality issues if you think the consumer thinks it's all about $120.00.
post #9893 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

I am still working on it. I am still debating if we should use 12" aluminum or less expensive paper cone driver as the retail price difference can be up to $120. My dilemma is when potential customers base their purchase on price, it can almost price the more expensive version out and yet I cannot offer two types of same sub with only $120 difference, one with aluminum cone and another with less expensive paper cone. In the end, customers will compare this new sub with VTF-3 and that really sway us into using less expensive model just to just stay competitive.

If you use the aluminum driver then you would be in the same ballpark as the PB12-NSD as far as price goes, correct? If you offer free shipping then you would only be $20 more than the VTF-3 shipped. It seems like you would definitely be competitive at that price, and you would be able to state that you have a higher quality driver than some competitors. Also, it would look so much bettter! IMHO
post #9894 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

I am still working on it. I am still debating if we should use 12" aluminum or less expensive paper cone driver as the retail price difference can be up to $120. My dilemma is when potential customers base their purchase on price, it can almost price the more expensive version out and yet I cannot offer two types of same sub with only $120 difference, one with aluminum cone and another with less expensive paper cone. In the end, customers will compare this new sub with VTF-3 and that really sway us into using less expensive model just to just stay competitive.

For what it's worth... while selling price is definitely important -- and paramount to some -- I think in this case perhaps other factors might warrant greater consideration.

Rythmik subs are known for their dynamics and precise sound reproduction, and in order to retain that distinction it could mean being the "price leader" has to take a backseat for some categories. I don't profess to know what your plans are, but since you already have the LV12R, and the upcoming L12, that should satisfy those looking for less expensive entries into the Rythmik sound. With the FV15 now discontinued I suspect you'll need a sub that approximates it's performance and output, otherwise you might be left with a gap in your product line.

The ironic thing is I'm a big fan of paper cone drivers, because they often have more "warmth" to their sound, yet I'm advocating for the aluminum driver instead. The VTF-3 might be one of your competitors, but I'm not sure it should be your ultimate target. The servo gives you a selling feature few others have, add an aluminum driver and it seems as though that would be worth some extra money.
post #9895 of 15221
Excellent reasoning Jim. Do you have a background in marketing?!
post #9896 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post


The ironic thing is I'm a big fan of paper cone drivers, because they often have more "warmth" to their sound, yet I'm advocating for the aluminum driver instead.

Just what is this "warmth" of paper cone drivers you describe, versus say an aluminum driver material?

The descriptive adjectives frequently used with subwoofers or their drivers intrigue me. Help me understand this warmth characteristic please.
post #9897 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post

Excellent reasoning Jim. Do you have a background in marketing?!

Nah, just a very analytical mind I suppose. Couple that with my pragmatic tendencies, and what you end up with is a real mess... tongue.gif
post #9898 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by polizzio View Post

Just what is this "warmth" of paper cone drivers you describe, versus say an aluminum driver material?

The descriptive adjectives frequently used with subwoofers or their drivers intrigue me. Help me understand this warmth characteristic please.

Unfortunately it's darn near impossible to quantify.

The various cone materials will have unique tendencies -- akin to personalities -- which is one of the primary reasons different ones are chosen by the various manufacturers, so they can achieve a specific sound "signature". For me, paper-based cones often come across as more natural and appealing. The soft materials in general seem more to my liking; I'd rather have a silk (soft) dome tweeter than a metallic (hard) dome. Same with midranges and woofers to be honest. I've heard cones derived from metals, ceramics, polypropylene, doped (coated essentially) and carbon fiber, yet I still gravitate towards paper for some reason. Personal preference is really all it is.

While the different materials have distinct properties you can't necessarily say all hard dome tweeters will sound harsh, but that's often the case. For me anyway. They come across as crisp or detailed to others, but tend to grate on me after a short while and cause listening fatigue. Not all paper coned drivers sound warm though, so it goes both ways. You can't really measure something like that either, so it's not like you can really look at any one graph and say 'ah yes, that one is aluminum. At least I've never been able to discern a pattern.
post #9899 of 15221
^^^
Jim certainly has very good discerning hearing. The "warmth" that he referred to is the "secondary" sound effect more related to the harmonic distortion components generated by slightly bending of the diaphragm during movement. The distortion from paper are mostly second order distortion (non-symmetric bending) and 3 order distortion (symmetric bending). It is the second order distortion giving the sense of warmth.

Now our aluminum cone has first resonance at around 1.2khz to 1.5khz depending on size. We have intentionally limited our operation to 100hz max. It will take a 10th order harmonic distortion to excite that resonance. In addition, servo also helps by reducing higher order distortions and hence less energy at 10th order or higher harmonic distortion. That is why customers don't hear coloration like that from our subs. I did have one or two customers who were skeptical about aluminum cone albeit my explanation and, more importantly, the actual sound that our customers hear from our aluminum drivers.
post #9900 of 15221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmik View Post

^^^
Jim certainly has very good discerning hearing. The "warmth" that he referred to is the "secondary" sound effect more related to the harmonic distortion components generated by slightly bending of the diaphragm during movement. The distortion from paper are mostly second order distortion (non-symmetric bending) and 3 order distortion (symmetric bending). It is the second order distortion giving the sense of warmth.

The above reads like the difference between tubes and solid state. I like tubes on horns and tweeters and solid state on mid-range and woofers. Bi-amping is a pain so I've trained myself to ignore reality, use only solid state, boxed the tubes up, lovingly moved them to a shelf in the garage and now live in a delusional world and rock out to the beat.
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