Harrods View Theater Construction Thread - Page 9

Looking forward to seeing your pictures. I think you'll be happy with the results.

Been away from the house since my last post.

Here are some pictures of the fabric samples that I'm evaluating.

In each picture, the larger fabric sample on the left is GOM. The sample on the right is 11oz burlap.

You can see that GOM has a slightly tighter weave; from approximately 6 ft, it is very difficult to tell the difference between the two.

I've also tested the burlap for stretch. I installed a 1 yd sample over a 2'x2'x.75" MDF board. It was fastened using upholstery staples. It's been setup for a week; the board sample is staying taut and not showing any signs of stretching.

This picture shows the fabric samples directly on one of our tables.


This picture shows the samples over white paper.


Here's another over black background.


Last one over black

I agree - the weaves are different. The GOM is less open, so you will notice a difference between the two, especially when placed over a white surface. You can see that in the photos. These were shot at approximately 1 foot away.

When placed over a black surface they do look very similar at @6ft.

Bottom-line: the GOM is nicer. It is more consistent and appears to be blacker.

Here's one other issue that I should mention. The burlap sold at onlinefabrics is sold in 47" wide, but the roll is @24" wide. This means the fabric is folded over, creating a wrinkle down the middle. It steams out, but what PIA. On the other hand, it does seem to stretch out just fine.

The fabric sold at ATS (@$6/yd) does not have this problem. It is sold in full rolls 56" wide, so no creases or wrinkles to deal with.

At this point I haven't decided yet in which direction I will go. The GOM is nicer, I just have to decide if it really worth $15/yd.

BTW - I noticed that you mention you want the fabric for speaker panels - do you mean grills? If so, many speaker builders around here use Ponte fabric for speaker grills. It is generally available at any JoAnn fabric store and is very black. It also is breathable, allowing sound to pass without trouble. I think it sells for @$6/yd.

Best advice I can offer is to get samples (at least 4"x4") and experiment. I'm sure you'll find a fabric that meets your needs.

I found this site tonight and ordered a sample of the DMD fabrics. It looks promising and appears to be very similar to GOM. The price is reasonable.

http://www.acoustimac.com/index.php/...-the-yard.html

Looking for a little guidance. Please help me stay out of trouble.

I'm closing in on installing the my star ceiling. I have received the fiber and illuminators. Now I'm contemplating options to suspend the fiber ceiling panels.

I've studied Sandman's approach and Moggie's method. I really like Moggie's method (which is a method that Moggie borrowed from FOSI).

Which way should I go? Are there other methods I should consider?

Option 1: Moggie's Method (see thread Saga of old Vic)

Install aluminum extrusions lengthwise on the ceiling. These extrusion are shaped to accept and support hangers that are attached to 3/4" MDF star panels. The Panels support all the fiber and are covered in GOM.

Moggie kept the number of seams to a minimal by using long sections of MDF, the full width of the space he was filling. In my case, I need to cover 12' w x14'L area. I can not find locally MDF longer than 97".


Moggie also used OC 701 at first reflection points, I will be doing same. He also used biscuit to keep ceiling flat at the seams. I would do the same.


Option 2: Variation based on the approach many have used and is also documented in Sandman's thread.

Install wood strips length-wise on the ceiling @3.5' apart. Construct ceiling panels using 3/16" masonite backed by wooden frame 3/4" thick. Panels would be 4' x 7' long. Cover in GOM, then use finish nailer to attach the panels to the wood strips previously installed.


I know that bpape and other have expresed triple-leaf concerns in Moggies thread. Moggie seems to have mitigated that by placing insulation behind the panels and leaving 1.5" gap between the panels' perimeter and the soffits.

Is triple-leaf a concern then for option 2? So many have used the thinner boards, so I assume its ok. Thoughts?

Good tip. Thanks.

Spent some time today covering the stage and riser.

The day began at about 8 AM, when the Home Depot delivered my sand and some additional sheathing. I have to give HD thumbs up for delivering really dry play sand. None of the bags needed to be dried, so I could move right into covering the stage.

Somehow ordered too much sand. My calculations indicated that I needed 81 bags, but I only used about 60. So the rest is going into the kid's sandbox.

Here's some pictures.

This one shows the first two cavities filled. The plastic is 6mil poly. You can see the sand was dry.



This one shows the cavities have been filled and the poly has been taped in place using black duct tape.




Here you can see the stage has been cover with one layer of 3/4" OSB. Tomorrow, I will add a layer of 3/4" plywood. (Sorry that picture isn't better)

Here's some pictures of the riser.

First I installed the step lights. They worked out and look just fine, but I wouldn't use them again. The box and the internal components were made of very thin and cheap material. Also you have to remove the internal housing to wire it up (these are 120v). Trying to replace the internal housing definitely forces you to swear a few times - it's tight and the screw holes didn't easily align.

I also installed 2" conduit for future proofing, which ended up being easier than I expected. The hole saw made it quite easy. Once installed I caulked around the openings and then filled the cavities with insulation



These shots shows the first layer of 3/4" subfloor installed. Tomorrow I'll install the second layer.






Cheers

Thanks for checking in. I'm really looking forward to making the moldings. Hopefully, they will turn out as nice as yours. We do plan to stain. I know I mentioned painting the wall moldings in earlier post, but that was just a weak moment.

Your build has been really fun to watch - motivating too. It's nice to see someone not take the easy way out.

Quick update.

I installed the second layer of plywood on the stage and riser this morning. Spent the rest of the day with the family.

This completes the rough construction for stage and riser. I will be adding hardwood bullnose and carpeting to finish them out.

The stage is absolutely solid. I used 30 pound roofing felt between the OSB and plywood layers, then screwed it all together.

I used Green Glue between the OSB and Plywood layers on the rear riser, completing the damped box for the cold air return.

---------

Today I received more fabric samples.

First samples I opened were from AcousTex Fabrics. I recieved their Designer Series #10 black. This fabric appears to be nearly identical in texture and color vs. GOM FR701 408 black. It stretches slightly less and costs more the GOM - @$17/yd vs $15/yd for GOM.

I also received DMD fabric samples from Acoustimac. All I can say is WOW! The DMD looks great - very smooth and rich looking.

Here's a quick comparision:

GOM

• Slightly more breathable when comparing both fabrics unstretched.
• Acceptable appearance.
• Almost no stretch.
• More Costly - $15/yd.

DMD

• Breathable. Comparable to GOM when stretched.
• MUCH MUCH nicer looking than GOM! Did I mention that it's reallly nice looking! Color swatches are impressive too - looks very rich.
• Stretches in one direction - may be concern for sag if not adhered with fabric 3M 77 Glue. However, it becomes more breathable when stretched.
• Less costly - $9/yd.

Has anyone used DMD fabric from Acoustimac? If so can you share your experience? Are you happy with it's performance? Why aren't more people using this product?

Thanks for the tip. I just posted some questions on his thread.

I'm hoping the DMD fabric will work. It really looks nice IMO. The only question is the amount of stretch vs GOM or Burlap. If not properly installed, it may be more likely to sag. I may purchase a 1 yd sample to test it out on a panel.

Thanks. The window plugs have been pretty popular. I received a ton of PM's on them. Keep me posted on your IR Repeater saga. Would love to hear your findings.

Thanks for the feedback and the votes for Anchorage line.

I agree that Anchorage line is nice. I've been impressed with all the GOM products. Only complaint is the price compared to comparable alternatives. For example the Anchorage line is double that of DMD. So when faced with $1600 vs $800 the savings is appreciable. BTW - when I spoke to the Acoustimac rep, he said they sell 4-5 times more yardage of DMD than GOM FR701. He sited a bunch of pro studios using the fabric.

So I'm curious, have you guys compared the DMD vs Anchorage side-by-side? If so, what did you think? Is Anchorage worth the price tag?

Thanks for the feedback! I was hoping to hear from someone with experience using DMD.

I'm about to pull the trigger on the DMD fabric - I think . Need to make final measurements first.

Made some progress today on framing out the curved front soffit. Lot's of pictures to follow.

The soffits I'm building will have a light tray attached to them. The curved soffit is being built with that feature in mind. So there are actually two curves. One is full height behind the soffit tray. The other is 5" high and is front of the soffit tray.

I started by making a template of the soffit. This was accomplished by rolling out a 36" roll of kraft paper (you can get this at HD or Lowes) the full width of the room. I then transferred measurements taken from the ceiling to the paper, taking care to layout the location of the framing members I had previously installed prior to installing the ceiling drywall.

I found it a bit tricky to layout the curve. At first I attempted the string method, but it was too inaccurate. The string I used was too strectchy, so the arc traced very erratically.

I then tried using a full length wooden curve, which worked great. The curve was created from leftover 16' baseboard that I planed down to 3/8" thick.

The process I used essentially uses an arc from an elongated ellipse. Go here for more info on how to draw an ellipse - http://www.mathopenref.com/constellipse1.html


Here's the procedure I used.

1. Draw layout lines, perpendicular to the major axis of the curve. These were drawn every 12" starting from each end until reaching the center.

2. Place the wooden curve on the template paper and bend it until reaching desired curvature. Mark the curve's offset from the major axis.

3. Then hold the curve by tacking in place. In my case, I used small finish nails tacked into the plywood subflloor.

3a. Start by tacking a finish nail on the minor axis at the offset marked in step 2. This nail should be pretty firmly installed.

3b. Tack finish nails - one each - on the ends. These should be exactly the same offset from the major axis.

3c. Place the board in front of the center finish nail and bend it back behind the end nails. This should hold the curve, assuming the wood extends beyond the end nails.

3d. Measure the offsets at each layout line and note it on the template. Do this on one half of the curve. Transfer each measurement to the respective layout lines on the second half of the curve.

3e. At each layout line, tack the curve in place for the offset measurement noted on the template. This may require a nail on front and back of the board.

4. Trace the curve with a marker.

---------

This picture shows one end of the template using string method.



This is showing the other end.



Here you see the arc drawn using the string method. Unfortunately, it was not satisfactory.




A better method - this one shows the curve drawn for the soffit tray.



This one shows the full height curve behind the soffit tray.

This picture shows a comparison between the curves traced using string method vs. wooden curve.




------------------

After completing the template, I pulled it up and went to my garage to cut the pieces and asseble the framing.

It was constructed using two halfs. The measurements from the template were transferred to the 1/2" MDF bottoms. 2x4's were installed to create the necessary framing for the 1/4" plywood panel to be adhered.

BTW - It was at this point that I realized that actually tracing the curve was not needed. The layout lines were the important thing to capture. The plywood panel would create the curve when adhered to the framing members.

Here you can see the 2x4's installed on the MDF bottom. The curve of the tray will be finished when installed on the ceiling.



Here you can see the full height panel being test fitted.


Here you see the two halves laid out on the floor prior to installing.


Here's a closeup of the mounting brackets. I determined their locations by hoisting the soffits using the drywall lift. I traced around the brackets, removed the panel, and removed the brackets from the panel. Then I screwed the brackets into the ceiling.

This shows the first half installed. You can see the additional 2x4's in the back and side to mount the soffit bottom level .



This shows the second half installed.



And this shows the panel installed. The space behind the panel has been stuffed with insulation. Also the panel was ripped 1.5" narrower. This allows for venting at the bottom of the soffit - thus some bass trapping. You'll never see it because it will be behind the light tray.



Well that's as far as I made it today. Next I plan to work on the trays.