Oppo BDP-83/93/95/103/105 DLNA/UPnP thread - Page 75

I just noticed the new title for this thread.

Why no love for the 93/95, which have more in common with the 83 than the 103/105 do, as the 103/105 can have media "pushed" to them, which none of the older Oppos can do?

UPDATE: Thanks for including the 93/95 in the thread title!
Edited by Philnick - 3/1/13 at 6:21pm

Wow Bill, that's the best FAQ I've ever seen, superb work. (Do you write or teach for a living?)

The 103 is more flexible

Though what are BDMV folders?

Thanks

No, I just have an orderly mind. Let me tell you all about it...

BDMV is the folder/file structure used by Blu-ray. It's the "raw" native content of the disc, not converted to any other format. Note that disc are cryptographically protected, so you can't just copy them without extra effort.

-Bill

This is the NAS, reviewed as 9 out of 10, though it might not be DLNA certified

if that may be more difficult to implement

http://apcmag.com/hp-proliant-microserver-g7-n40l-review.htm

The bluray files I watch are ripped, can be stored on a USB drive, or on the NAS

The FAQ says that the 103 doesn't support BDMV "on DVD media"

So does the 103 not play bluray ripped files or DVD ripped files, from a NAS or USB drive?

Cheers

Ripped into what format?

-Bill

Newbie confession, I'm not sure, I'll check when I'm next home

I thought there was only one . .

But as there are more than one, I only have a few so far, what formats will work with the 103?
Ie without BDMV?

Cheers

The file formats are shown in the FAQ.

BDMV is currently supported on local storage and over SMB if the BDMV folder is nested inside an AVCHD folder.

Note that the studios are always looking for ways to keep you from copying the original media. This is not going to get better with time.

-Bill

Thanks again , I went over the list.

Is it any easier from NAS or a USB?

Or into the Oppo via 10/ 100 , USB or HDMI?

Cheers

Those are all different things. Each has its virtues and limitations.

USB is local file storage.

Ethernet is DLNA (plus SMB on the -103).

An NAS must be on the network and is either DLNA or SMB.

HDMI input is when your source is some other player or PC or other device.

-Bill

Actually, DLNA is a subset of UPnP - and my 93 works fine with my copy of oShare (a freebie at SourceForge.net) in its default UPnP configuration.

oShare can be told to be a DLNA server instead, but since DLNA supports fewer file types, I've left it set to UPnP.

oShare is a very minimalist program that does no transcoding, so you're always playing the original file.
Edited by Philnick - 2/28/13 at 4:39am

I'll have to find out if the intended NAS, the HP , is DLNA or SMB.

Is there a comparison of these two, or a link to a guide?

Cheers

Start with the wikipedia.

DLNA is meant to serve media files.

SMB is a general purpose network file system.

-Bill

Thanks again. I read up on DLNA basics at Wikipedia and elsewhere.

However you pointed out that with the -103, Oppo added the ability to use a general purpose file system (SMB) - I guess they did this to allow further (non DLNA) devices to work with it

As I’ll be using software that I believe is DLNA certified: JRMC, I’m going down the DLNA path

The media server (a modest powered HP “Microserver”), can be used either as a NAS or (with a HDMI card) as a simple HTPC.

Which works better as the input to an Oppo, 10/100 or HDMI?

Both work. You can't compare them. One's got nothing to do with the other. It's like asking if disc works better than USB. Both work and do their thing.

-Bill

It might also affects the choice between Ethernet or HDMI:

For 2 channel music, I want to run special stereo speakers run by a Digital crossover –
I’m a diy audiophile (the 95 has great DACs etc, but) - I need to get the Audio out in Digital, from either the HP Microserver or the Oppo:

What format & content is the Oppo's Output:

• Source Direct out: digital or analog, both audio and video?
• USB out: ie is it both audio and video?
• Optical or other out: ditto

Thanks again

Thanks Bill
~ When I sent the last post, I missed yours

If they’re equal in quality and flexibility, I’d probably use Ethernet

I thought they’d both work, but one might be eg easier to implement

None of this applies to DLNA, so you should ask it in the main owner's thread.

Source Direct is for video; nothing to do with audio. The -103 has HDMI video output only, no analog component.

None of the OPPOs has USB output.

Optical audio output is always digital; I've never heard of anything else.

-Bill

Optical audio output is ok for stereo, where it can use PCM, but not for multichannel, where it is limited to DVD-type (e.g., lossy) versions of Dolby Digital and DTS.

If you use optical audio output for stereo for these special speakers (where the big question is what kind of input they have), you should also connect audio via multichannel RCA or HDMI for anything that's in lossless surround (including surround music from DVD-A, SACD, Blu-ray, and downloaded FLACs or LPCMs).

Did anybody know why my Canon cameras produced MOV format video files can not be played on BDP-103 from DLNA server?
From http://watershade.net/wmcclain/BDP-103-faq.html#what-are-the-supported-media-container-and-file-types I see that MOV is supported format.
Is there any setting on BDP-103 or DLNA server that can influence MOV play?
Some other video file formats can be played from DLNA, I suppose DLNA server works OK.

I've been fighting this problem since last summer with my 93 in trying to view videos I shot with my Canon EOS T4i DSLR, which is a beautiful camera except for this wrinkle:

Canon DSLR MOVs are not standard MOVs but have the bit order of the audio reversed!

Playing them - even on a PC - requires installing a translation filter which works with some players, including Windows Media Player and the free Pot Player, but not others, like Winamp or even QuickTime. At least Lightroom 4 can play them, but when it is told to write them out in a standard format it produces a beautiful, but silent, clip!

I found a workaround last year that I've forgotten how to do, because it took four times a clip's running time, and produced lossy-compressed video.

Not habit-forming!

I expect that to really solve this it may be necessary to use more powerful video-editing or translating software - or a server capable of reading the Canon format and transcoding it on the fly.

--Phil
Edited by Philnick - 3/1/13 at 6:23pm

Welcome to AVSForum.

As said, it is probably an issue with either the audio or video codec, or both, inside the MOV container. You could copy one of the files onto a USB stick and try it directly attached to the player to confirm that it is not a DLNA server issue.

There is a free utility called "mediainfo". Post the results from that so we can see the specifics of the codecs involved.

-Bill

Info about example MOV from Mediainfo is:

General
Complete name : MVI_0935.MOV
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt
File size : 325 MiB
Duration : 1mn 17s
Overall bit rate : 35.2 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2012-02-11 11:14:30
Tagged date : UTC 2012-02-11 11:14:30
CNTH : @½ñ,äG¨ƒLÐmž!Œ‚ì°—Pv3Òÿ…5 /

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Baseline@L5.0
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=12
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 1mn 17s
Bit rate : 33.7 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.678
Stream size : 310 MiB (96%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2012-02-11 11:14:30
Tagged date : UTC 2012-02-11 11:14:30
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.601

Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : sowt
Duration : 1mn 17s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 14.2 MiB (4%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2012-02-11 11:14:30
Tagged date : UTC 2012-02-11 11:14:30

^^^
Drop that file onto a USB drive and try it from there. If it works then the issue is in your DNLA server. I'd avoid DNLA completely with the 103, just use SMB to access the files directly. That said, it may be easier to set up a DNLA server than to get Windows to share files gracefully.

I suspect that audio codec is the problem. Last time I googled it a lot of devices and utilities were struggling with it.

The OPPO FAQ has this: What audio/video codecs are NOT supported?

Your only recourse is to convert it to a supported format or find a DLNA server that will transcode it automatically.

-Bill

From USB BDP-103 plays this Canon MOV, without audio, it gives warning that audio format is not supported, but from DLNA even file is not in list.
I find from net one MOV file what has audio packed with AAC codec and this file plays from DLNA with audio and no problems, Mediainfo details for this file:

General
Complete name : ____obydick.mov
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Format settings : Compressed header
Codec ID : qt
File size : 54.7 MiB
Duration : 14mn 34s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 525 Kbps
Encoded date : UTC 2006-03-08 12:42:19
Tagged date : UTC 2006-03-08 12:42:26
Writing library : Apple QuickTime

Video #1
ID : 2
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L1.3
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=24
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 14mn 33s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 397 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 516 Kbps
Width : 320 pixels
Height : 240 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.207
Stream size : 41.2 MiB (75%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2006-03-08 10:55:05
Tagged date : UTC 2006-03-08 12:42:26
Color primaries : BT.601 NTSC
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.601

Video #2
ID : 3
Format : M-GIF
Codec ID : gif
Duration : 14mn 34s
Bit rate : 45.3 Kbps
Width : 320 pixels
Height : 240 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 1.000 fps
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.590
Stream size : 5.54 KiB (0%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2006-03-08 12:37:07
Tagged date : UTC 2006-03-08 12:42:26

Video #3
ID : 4
Format : JPEG
Codec ID : jpeg
Duration : 2s 0ms
Bit rate : 101 Kbps
Width : 320 pixels
Height : 240 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 0.500 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:4:4
Bit depth : 8 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.624
Stream size : 24.6 KiB (0%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2006-03-08 12:37:49
Tagged date : UTC 2006-03-08 12:42:26

Audio
ID : 1
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 14mn 31s
Source duration : 14mn 31s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 128 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 13.3 MiB (24%)
Source stream size : 13.3 MiB (24%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2006-03-08 10:55:04
Tagged date : UTC 2006-03-08 12:42:26

Thanks Phil (Been offline for a while)

The special speakers (DIY) are just for stereo music, and its inputs are I2S.
But you've reminded me there is a quality adapter with Optical Toslink inputs US $70. http://www.minidsp.com/products/minidspkits/minidigi

The multichannel could go via RCAs to an AV receiver

Cheers

Followed your link and saw what looked like a pair of RCA jacks facing the reader. If those are the output that drives the DIY speakers, why not just use a Y connector (or if you want to get fancy, a passive switch box - i.e., no electronics, just jacks and switches - real cheap at Radio Shack) to feed the Oppo's L and R front outputs to both your DIY speakers and the AVR's L and R front input jacks?

If you're running a 95, it even has a separate RCA L & R pair you could use for this.

What makes you think that this outboard box is going to have better sound than the Oppo's analog output, which is very highly regarded?

I get MOV fail paying over SMB/CIFS, but it play as slow motion (and without audio). Can it be that BDP-103 had some limit in network overall bit rate? Problematic MOV had overall bit rate 35.2 Mbps, can this be over BDP-103 network maximum bit rate? I use Wi-Fi network adapter on BDP-103, my Wi-Fi AP is 802.11g, or is this too slow?

About SOWT (Apple QuickTime SOWT Little Endian PCM), is it not supported because audio decoding chip is not supporting it or firmware is not supporting it, or it is just license fee problem and can be added later?

That may be a problem. Even "N" is marginal for high definition video. As a diagnostic, you could confirm this by switching to a cable, or copying the file onto local storage.

I suspect it is a purely software issue. Whether licensing is involved I do not know. It's hard to see how a PCM variation could be encumbered, but strange things happen these days.

-Bill