GoldenEar Technologies Anticipation Thread - Page 11

Yes, the problem was just with the subs. Check out the forum on Goldenears website:

http://www.goldenear.com/community/1...ability-Issues

Goldenear addresses the issue there.

I was having another listen with the Tritons today and the dealer brought up that he thought he was hearing some overemphasis of bass in the 125hz range. I was listening for about 1.5 hours and didn't really notice anything like that, although its hard to since i don't listen to 2 channel music with a sub very often.

Has anyone or Sandy could you shed some light on this?

Surfdoggin/Amheck
Thanks for the link.
R

Sandy, I am planning on doing a 11.1 setup, for no other reason than I can. However I was wondering if you could suggest a in-ceiling speaker that might work well with your speakers. I unfortunately must use in-ceilings for my rear back surrounds, I am planning on using sat50's for my side surrounds. Do you have any plans on releasing any in wall speakers, or dipole/bipole speakers as I would be willing to hold off and just run the triton cinema two for now

Hi, Regarding various questions: How would I compare the Triton with my two previous towers? Obviously a difficult one to answer and easier for posters here etc. to address. The Mythos ST and STS are great speakers and I am very proud of them. I would not have gone forward with the Triton if I did not feel that I could create a new speaker which was clearly better. I am very pleased with the Triton and I think the reviews so far absolutely address just how well we have succeeded. Give them a listen and just make sure that they are well set up and properly adjusted. Regarding the comment about overemphasis at 125Hz: I wasn't in the room so don't know what was happening, but this is clearly in the range where room anomalies, interactions and positioning have a tremendous influence on what we hear. Jrlane didn't hear it. Who knows? Dealer could have had the bass turned up too loud. At this point, we are finding in many rooms setting the sub level on the back of the speaker between 8 and 9 o'clock seems best. Regarding a matching in-ceiling speaker: we are working on this and hope to have product in the Fall. If you move forward with the 11.1 set-up, I suppose that you could use your current ones and swap out later. Regarding dealers in Oregon: yes, Chelsea is great and Ford is terrific and also quite a character. Regarding a dealer in Hawaii: we have none yet but are working on it. We can arrange for speakers to be shipped or be patient, we will get a good dealer there. It is very helpful to us and everyone, actually; if you are in an area with no dealer tell the good dealers that we are doing something very interesting and that you are interested. It all helps. Also, regarding floor stands for the SS 50s: I did speak with a dealer of ours yesterday and he set up a pair on a pair of Sanus EF Sat1/b. Says they sound incredible with a ForceField sub. I think that we will move forward with one of our own, but probably won't see it for 90+ days. Sandy

Would you also be releasing any in wall speaker similar to the paradigm millennia hybrids?

From the Golden Ear Website:
Buyer Be Aware
To protect you from unscrupulous, unauthorized dealers and internet scam artists, GoldenEar products are not offered for sale over the Internet or by mail order.
---
I agree with this logic for the uninformed or naive consumer. However there are several business which have the highest Internet reputation such as Amazon and J&R.

I have NEVER had an issue with Amazon. For example, I bought three pairs of top-rated aviator polarized sunglasses for $20 which have outstanding optical quality. The local stores cannot compete against no tax, top product quality and free and fast shipping. Stores typically carry what is best for them, not the consumer. No wonder the trend is up for Internet sales.

Further recent court decisions let companies tightly control every aspect of the product they sell. Prudent consumers would not need "protection" if they purchased Golden Ear speakers directly from Amazon. They could ship directly from the factory with no chance for grey goods (of course they are expected to be in stock )

However if I think from your perspective, an authorized dealer could sell at Amazon and you could not stop them, at least not without some investigation. This also prevents competition between dealers, to keep the margins at a necessary level and remain viable. This result is a broad, heavy-handed decision to ban all Internet sales, good and bad.

However there is no substitute in a local, reputable dealer providing an optimized environment to view, listen and test quality products. Apple does it in upscale areas. So I will support my local high-end dealers while continuing the trend of buying more commodity products from Amazon. Glad to help!

I have two dealers pretty close to me, and plan on going to one this weekend for a listen-see.

I'm already running dual subs in my HT setup, my question is if I pick up the Triton 2's a matching center, what would be the best way to integrate the Triton's into my setup? Use a Y connector to split the subwoofer out from my receiver, where would they be crossed over, etc.

Some may feel these are unneccesary in my system, but to me it would just smooth out even more the LFE in my room.

Or I could be totally wrong,

Hi, Regarding the Hybrids, The SS 3 and SS 50s are only 2.7 and 2.5" deep so they achieve a very thin profile on the wall combined with very high performance. Regarding the integration of your other two subwoofers with the Tritons: it does depend some on the particulars of the subs, but because of how well the subs in the Tritons integrate with the whole speaker, my tendency would be to set the processor on large left and right and sub and use your current subs on the LFE channel. Other interesting possibilities would be to put one in the front of the room, one in the back, hook them up to the LFE with a y and then hook them up speaker level to the center channel and rears. The exact hookup would depend on the options on the subs. With our subs I would run the speaker levels through the subs hooking the center and rears up using the internal crossovers. Then set rears and center to large. A little complex but could be very interesting and fully utilize everything to the best advantage. Sandy

I've noted the side-firing subs in the Tritons, and I believe that they are called "racetrack" shape (obviously an oval shape). I also seem to recall that they are 6"x9" in opening(??). A LOT of wattage going to these babies, to be sure, but I am just wondering what kind of roughly comparable performance that could be equated to these built-ins (i.e. like an 8" sub, or 10" sub, etc.?) Maybe it is an apples to oranges comparison, but how might one look at these built-ins? My old Definitive Technology BP-7004's have a 10" sub (round) with about 300 W going to it...and hey, they get after it fairly nicely for that spec. (relatively tight and integrated to the speaker, set on "full")

BTW, nice kudos to the Tritons by Sound and Vision Magazine, just out today- the Tritons got the "Audio Product of the Year award" from them. Nice.
Any comments, please?

Thanks Sandy, some things for me to think about!

Vic

Hi, Regarding Wolvernole's question: Realistically speaking it is hard to compare the specific performance of the built-in subs in the Tritons to a 10" sub or a 12" sub because every 10" is different and every 12" sub is different. There are many things that make a big difference but obviously overall throw, motor (magnet size) cabinet volume, power (and quality of power) additional DSP functions to optimize performance, loading ,etc. Or let's say almost all are different and some are very different. In the case of the 7004s, which have a good well integrated sub as you have noted, there is an active side-mounted sub on one side of the cabinet and 2 passive radiators on the other side. The use of passive radiators (if properly engineered), which load the active driver, helps to extend down the useable response as well as improve the transient performance and dynamic range. I have been using them in my designs since the early 70s. In the Triton, we have 2 active 5"x7" long throw quadratic (these are different than racetrack in that the top and bottom are somewhat flattened) drivers with very large magnet structures which are front-mounted. We wanted these active drivers front-mounted as it gives us slightly improved upper-bass detail and better integration. Then there are 2 7"x10" planar passive radiators which are side-mounted at the bottom of each side. Having one on each side helps to smooth out the room modes some as they are in two physically different spots in the room. Locating them on the bottom of the cabinet allows them to couple the deep bass frequencies that they produce better to the room. Lots of power, very low distortion and DSP control over many operating parameters. As you say, apples and oranges.....a long answer to a simple question. Thank you for the kind words regarding the S&V Audio Product of the Year Award. They only give one each year and it is very gratifying. Sandy

Sandy, congratulations on your latest achievement. It sounds like you may have produced a winner. I will continue to follow all evaluations of the Tritons as it's time to replace my Monitor Audio Silver speakers (dome tweeters) which I've owned and enjoyed for many years.

It appears that your product can only be purchased from dealers who've chosen to manage brick and morter stores. We are in a recession. Dealers need to EARN money. Customers need to SAVE money. Since customers greatly outnumber dealers (50 to 1? 100 to 1?) I believe customer needs and desires should receive priority.

Being forced to purchase from a dealer can be a mixed blessing. Some cities will not have a dealer. The customer must then travel many miles for an audition. With gas prices exceeding $3.00 per gallon, this adds to the expense, saying nothing about time lost in travel. In rural areas, the problem acerbates. Upon arrival the experience may be less than desirable. Dealers must carry other brands. Does he have the physical space to optimally set up the demo? Does the customer have space to find the sweet spot? Can the customer be seated so as to listen at ear level? Is the audition compromised by conversations and noise eminating from adjacent rooms? The witnessed sonics can never fully duplicate the sound in one's living room/home theater. The size, shape and accoustical reflections of the rooms will differ. And what components (receiver, amp, preamp, cd/dvd player, cables) does the dealer employ? They will influence the sound and not duplicate the sonic affects at home. The dealer must have knowledge regarding numerous components and brands. How informed is he in responding to customers' questions? And if hired help is employed, what is their depth of knowledge and experience?

And then there's the matter of state sales tax. In Michigan a $3,000.00 expenditure at 6% would add an additional $180.00 to the cost. In Florida, it's more. And in California it's outragious. This added expense might well be a deal-breaker for some.

And what about home demos? Some dealers will not have a spare set available. Others will limit the demo to a 24 hr. period. And if a new, boxed set is taken home by the customer and returned, the dealer will have difficulty in selling an open-boxed item to another. Audiophiles are picky people. Speakers are heavy. Who pays the expense for the hernia operations? Speakers are highly vulnerable to damage when handled by dealers and customers. Returns require more gas money and wasted time.

Some customers purchase speakers without auditioning them--because of distance, or because of their faith in others' appraisals.

So, Sandy, what is this all leading up to? Please provide other purchase options to better meet your customers' needs and to sell more product. Who do you love the most? Your customers or your dealers? Your customers greatly outnumer your dealers.

Please provide at least one internet service for the sake of convenience. Amazon.com would be my first choice. They are a reliable, familiar and trusted entity. This avenue eliminates state sales tax, provides free shipping (over $25.00) and delivers the heavy product not to one's doorstep, but to the designated room, As with TVs, their white glove delivery service requires them to remove the object from the carton. The customer has a 30 day window to return the product, with Amazon picking up the return shipping charges. No hernias, gas expenses, wasted time, state tax or shipping charges up and back.

Amazon encourages buyers to evaluate their purchases. These numerous evaluations are very helpful in making a decision to buy, and to compare consumers' reactions to competitive products.

Sandy, Oppo's product distribution procedures might provide a model to emulate. Chat with them. They produce what many consider to be the best blu-ray and standard upsampling player on the market. Customer and professional appraisals of the product are strong selling points. Oppo players can only be purchased from the manufacturer, Amazon.com, and one other internet provider. Oppo does not allow Amazon to undersell its player. Oppo and Amazon both charge $499.99 for the new 93 model. But $18.00 is saved on shipping costs when ordering from Amazon.

Oppo provides exceptional technical support. All problems and questions are resolved by a highly trained staff. One has confidence in their recommended solutions. And I've never been placed on hold. Responses are immediate. Incredible! No uninformed dealers needed to mess things up.

Sandy, please provide this option for your beloved customers. Lesson our stress levels, lower our blood pressure, eliminate hernias, and lengthen our life-spans so we have more years to enjoy your fine product. Also, lesson your own stress level. You must be spending an inordinate amount of time in lining up your dealers. And you have to bear all the frustrations when dealers are sabatoged by customers, or when they present your product in a negative manner

I just purchased Onkyo's new flagship receiver. I'm enjoying the Audessy sound system which allows additional wide left and right speakers in addition to the LCRs. This adds to the sense of space and embiance. I prefer this to Dolby's LR heigth speakers. I've wired the system for both and prefer the wides.

I'm using the the small Energy Take 2s for the wides. These are played at a lower level. I'm wondering how these dome speakers will blend with the Tritons. Since the Tritons must be widely spaced, are these wides redundant?

Sandy, I'm eagerly awaiting your responses to the abovee.

Kinda curious to see a response to this, although I doubt this will be sold direct when they're already in dealers. But my local dealer is not known for moving much on MSRP, so again, I'm interested to see what Golder Ear might say to this. Heck, I don't even know their policy on in-home demo's, something that I'd require before being able to drop that kind of $$ on speakers.

Hi, I appreciate the points regarding other selling options, but at this point we are committed to selling only through high quality specialty dealers who can hopefully offer GoldenEar customers excellent demo's and service.Regarding using the Energy speakers as wides: I have a feeling that when the Tritons are properly set-up, you will find the image is quite large and probably more coherent than you would find with the mix and add-on of "wide" speakers. You would have to listen and judge for yourself. Sandy

Slightly off topic, but I hope people understand that sales tax pays for the roads that one drives to their local Best Buy and on which the UPS truck delivers one's $20 sunglasses. It also pays for public schooling and other aspects of our shared world. As far as internet sales are concerned, set-up of a 5.1 system, for instance, is a fairly detailed process and needs to be accomplished usually by someone with a little more skill and knowledge than your average Geek Squad delivery kid. In my quick listen to the SS 30 system, I noticed that though they sounded great right off, I had to nudge the volume down on the sub and move it about 5 feet to get the best sound in the particular room I was in. There is every indication that across the line these speakers are a tremendous value. It would be quite foolish for GET to introduce a new surround sound system on Amazon and open up a new company to the idiotic review process there, where people deduct stars for things entirely unrelated to the product which they bought. Folks in that kind of mass setting are likely to set up their speakers poorly, not get the sound they were looking for and write a bad review. Introducing this product through dealers makes the most sense for a new company of this size and type.

I sure would prefer (and I believe that this is THEE reason intended for the threads provided) a discussion of the merits of the Tritons. I return to the Def Tech bi-polar (mine are 7004) only because it is a reference for comparison. I enjoy the 7004's but "on paper," I have always had a bit of a problem with the bi-polar concept of speakers firing both forward and backwards, in that placing them within three feet of the back wall HAS to produce a "secondary" wave of sound produced, that at least, again, in theory, would seem to produce a less-than-crisp first-hand response to the listener's ear...would it not? OK, so in regards/comparison to the Tritons which are NOT bi-polar, is it reasonable to assume that there would be an inherent increased perception of "crispness" by eliminating or reducing secondary sound waves? (maybe lose some "fullness" in a trade-off ???)
Responses out there? I still await my first demo of the Goldenear Tritons

Not sure what you mean by "crispness." Would that be instrument placement within the sound field? Clearer treble? I honestly think you need to audition speakers in your room to compare apples to apples. I heard the triton 2's in a showroom but feel like I need to hear them in my space to decide if I like them more than what I have. If I go by what I heard in the showroom, the answer is no.

Home Theater Magazines secondary site Ultimate-AV posted a nice write-up of Triton Cinema. Reviewer Scott Wilkinson raves about the sound quality and value.
An astute reader made an extended audition and comments The Triton's have a dynamic quality that I would bet gives five figure speakers a run for their money.
From my research the improved sound quality can partially be attributed to the new high-gauss Rare Earth Element (REE) magnetic material including neodymium magnets. Neodymium magnet based speakers play louder and clearer with less fatigue (JBL uses neodymium magnets extensively):
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/content...speaker-system

Note: the reader asks Home Theater Magazine to review the Triton Two (without realizing who their biggest advertiser is). Interesting situation to say the least!

Further info on NeoHeil or NeoAMT folded ribbon speakers:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post19914601

Stephentrask, the fact that you had to move the speakers about for optimum sound indicates the importance of placement. The only one, true, definitive assessment of the speakers' performance can only be ascertained when placed within the home. Will dealers provide their in-home placement service for free? Do you expect customers to pay extra for this service? The manual provides helpful suggestions. But the consumer will have to inch these about to fine tune them--a time consuming venture that dealers are unlikely to ingage in. I believe you overemphasize the role of the dealer.

Being a retired educator, it is comforting to think of my state tax dollers being spent on education and roads. But how many pennies go in this direction? How many pennies are spent on pork spending initiated by polititions whose self-serving, local ambitions override the needs of the state's citizens. And how many pennies are fradulantly confiscated and misplaced as they trickle down through the various levels of bureaucy?

And you would ban all amazon.com's customer evaluations because of a few unbalanced, irrational, biased, misinformed opinions? If you apply this ALL OR NOTHING thinking to amazon's customer inputs, we would have to ban all opinions because subjectivity can be found at all levels. Might a journalist write a glowing review because the survival of his journal depends upon the advertising dollars offered by the manufacturer? Does the journalist know and like the inventor? We tend to give more positive opinions relative to people we know, admire, and like. What space was the reviewer in when writing his review? Energetic, rested, or a victim of sleep deprivation? Sober? Recovering from a hangover? Starving or fed? If a critic is involved in devorce proceedings, music may not sound so sweet. Objectivity can easily give way to subjectivity for a multitude of reasons. Do all AVS FORUM postings appear objective? If not, shall we ban them all? Amazon critics give reasons for their star ratings, making it easy for the reader to discern the importance, accuracy and depth of the stated opinions. Dismiss the illogical. Entertain the logical, wise, credible, balanced, sane inputs as you would with any set of opinions.

If I pay $3,000.00 for the LCR Triton speakers, what percentage of my dollars support the dealer--his utilities, building rental, property tax, etc.? I'd like to avoid the middleman.

Three years ago these expenditures would not be critical. But we are now living in a period where one out of ten is unemployed. Home foreclosures continue to rise. Spending has decreased. Our operating peramiters must shift with the times. Sandy, are you, like Nancy Palosi totally out of touch with the economic needs of the American public?

Sandy, have mercy upon your customers. We still live in a democratic society, a state of being that is becoming extinct worldwide. It's wonderful to have choices. Please give us an alternative for purchasing your fine product--an alternative that is less costly and more convenient.

In a manner of speaking, this subject does coincide with the "anticipation" theme.

Before I spend $3000.00, I want to weigh as many opinions as possible--journalists, amazon customers, AVS Forum, Audioholics, etc. Let's not ban any opinions because of subjectivity.

After reviewing numerous opinions, I hope the Tritons turn out to be as favored as the early reviews now indicate. I'd like to upgrade. I'm looking to these speakers with great expectations. Time will tell.

Anyone in Houston have these yet or know where they can be demod? PM me thanks...def tech BP-30s and I have upgraditis. 100% theater, dedicated room.

Finally got my new Titon towers to go along with the 50C center and the SuperSat 3 rears. If you live in Oregon I would highly recommend giving Chelsea Audio/Video your business. Great group of guys!

First impression upon unloading them was they feel kind of light...noticeably lighter than my Mythos ST's (not that it means anything either way). Will give a full report once I have them set up proper and they are ran through the recommended break in process.

Was looking to Sandy for any initial placement ideas he could give me. One speaker is going to have to be within 2' or so of a side wall (drywall with 2' studs) but can place them up to about 3' from the rear wall. Any suggestions on placement would be appreciated.

Also, would you say the manual is correct in recommending 40 to 60 hours of "break in?" I want to get them fully broken in before I really start playing with them and their placement.

Thanks in advance!

Glad to hear that they are "in the house." I am very anxious to hear (no pun intended) from you how you like them IN your house...and I believe you can compare them w/ the Mythos ST's which are nice speakers in their own right. I think that regarding placement, you have to go by basic sense/ understanding of speaker placement and the room will obviously dictate to you what you can do (within reason).
Again, congratulations...and get back with us !

A couple more observations...one being on the build quality, or I guess I should say building materials compared to the Mythos ST's. The Mythos uses metals and a nice granite slab base where as the Triton's use the typical wood/plastic materials. This would attribute to the weight difference between the two speakers. A good comparison might be the Mythos are like a German car and the Triton's like a typical Japanese vehicle. If you've owned both then you might understand what I'm trying to say. Not that one is better built than the other. Its just how they go about their business. I personally like the cost savings of the Triton's as I don't think anybody has ever commented on the granite bases of my ST's. Seems like a waste of money as it adds nothing to the sound of the speaker.

Another item that might be of concern to a few- there is no easy way to take off the "sock" to expose the drivers of the speaker. On the Mythos and most typical speakers, its easy to remove the grill as they usually just snap into place. The sock on the Triton's are locked on by both the base and the top cap. Not that it can't be done its just if you wanted to "show off" your speaker or to simply look at the drivers there is no quick and easy way. I would have liked to seen a quick removal and replacement method.

And Sandy, how would you recommend taking off the top cap without damaging it or the sock?

More comments to come!

I have scoured the GE website and can't find any info on crossovers? Sandy can you give us some insight into the frequencies, slopes, and types used in the GE speakers? It seems like the midrange driver is as special as the HVFR tweeter, can you tell us more about it and what makes it better than an off the shelf model?

The Mythos ST weighs 80lbs with MSRP of $4000/pr
The Triton Two weigh 60lbs with MSRP $2500/pr

Definitive Technology does not discuss magnet technology for the STs. So I would attribute some of the extra 20lbs to it using conventional ferrite material, which Wikipedia states is popular for its low cost.

However the Mythos XTR®-50 Wallspeaker uses "a thermally conductive gasket seals the enclosure/magnet interface and transfers heat from the driver’s rare-earth magnet to the enclosure, making the whole enclosure a giant heat dissipater".
That is a nice innovation with increased performance, and a reduction in both size and weight. In other words traditional heavy ferrite/ceramic speakers require a heavier cabinet.

Cool, thanks for the comments, curious how the bass between the two are...

I can tell you first hand the Mythos ST speakers don't weigh 80lbs each, not even boxed with all the packaging materials according to my scale. I just moved mine and fully boxed they weighed just under 75lbs each (digital USPS scale). I haven't weighed the Tritons but if I do I will post my findings. If I had to guess I would say there is maybe a little over a 10 pound weight difference (didn't seem like 20 pounds as the listed specs would suggest). I would have to guess the granite base of the ST alone weighs 4 or 5 pounds more than the base of the Tritons (plastic). I would say there is less of a magnet difference than you think. I would guess the weight difference is mainly in the base and enclosure.

After spending several hours this evening listening to the Tritons with a variety of music, I would have to say my initial thoughts are that the Tritons have a slight edge on overall bass impact but not by much. When I first heard them at the dealer I thought the Tritons might have a clear edge with bass output but now comparing the two in the same environment and placement, I do think the Tritons have an edge but not by much. Certainly not enough to base a decision on if the bass was going to be a deciding factor in purchasing one over the other. I can also say the Tritons don't seem as "tiring" to listen to for extended periods. It seems to me that it is kind of fatiguing to listen to the STs for much more than a hour or so at a time. The Tritons don't seem to do that to me. They also seem to have a "warmer" or more fulfilling sound and are a more "musical" speaker compared to the STs. I think the STs excel with vocals and make a great home theater system. But with the limited time I've spent with the Tritons I would have to say I already favor them with music but don't think I will like them more than the STs when using them to watch movies/TV.

Those are my initial thoughts. When I spend some more time with them I'll share any other thoughts I have on them.

Are Subwoofers in the triton two better than the forcefield 4?