GoldenEar Technologies Anticipation Thread - Page 13

So, Augustine, you prefer a dealer and I don't. I can respect your needs and wishes. Can you accept mine? Is there room in your life for two contrasting opinions? Or, are you a victim of tunnel vision? A wish for internet service does not automatically catapault me into Bose country. It does, however, spike my interest in the Martin Logan Motion 12 and the Atlantic Technology AT-1.

May Peace, Tranquillity and Serenity be yours.

Am I alone in being disappointed when I heard the Tritons? The bass was very muddy and overwhelmed everything, and soundstaging and imaging were mediocre. Maybe I heard a defective pair? I preferred Magnepan 1.7s, Totem Hawks, and several others near that price point. Ended up ordering the B&W 802 Diamonds, which were at a different level altogether in terms of sound and, of course, price.

I had a problem with the mid bass being overwhelming. It could have been that the powered sub level was set too high. I believe that speakers have to be heard in your home (where you know the room acoustics) to be given a fair shot. A few years ago. I heard some B&W 6 series speakers that sounded awful to me. I knew something had to be wrong for them to sound that bad.

The significance of the all-digital class D amplifiers went unnoticed. (I really wasn't expecting more so i was not disappointed.)
Sandy's statement hints at the root reason why adjusting and setting the bass is more critical than with other speakers.
Can anyone put these clues together?

I think Sandy mentioned that as the in store and in home results have come in, their previous bass level recommendations were too high. Having the powered sub level too high would explain your muddy & overwhelming bass issues. I can't explain the mediocre soundstaging/imaging as those parameters are universally praised by multiple reviewers.

where did you "check them out" ?

Let see:
1) he didn't hear them
2) he listens locally then buys from Amazon

Sandy on the other hand wants you to make an informed choice before buying.

If you think about it, the Triton Two's are under priced according to competing products.
I'd expect prices to rise once the brand name is established.
Some people will always want something for less. If they were priced $2K someone would want them for 1.5k! In real-estate they call'em bottom feeders.

The AT-1 speakers sound congested according to Home Theater Magazine
The Motion 12 are not full range, but would be fine in a smaller room with a subwoofer.

Now lets get back on track guys?

Let's see:

3) He listens at home during a 30 day window provided by Amazon. In home demos are far more revealing than showroom demos.

Whats with the trolling in this thread? Just stop already.

I plan on getting a listen to replace my wonderful BP-30 theater system I have had for years and years. (bp30 main/20 rear/8 back/clr2500 center, svs subs)

I am not a big fan of dealers anymore, this will be my first trip to one in many many years. The 3-4 that I used to frequent all are gone and left me hanging with equipment and installs that were not warrantied correctly and still tweaking (programmed remotes, etc).

I think the internet direct with in home listening periods is the right model, but GoldenEars isnt doing that...neither are tons of other high end speakers. The last real dealer I can find in Houston doesnt even answer the phone anymore - audio dealers in Houston are in a sad state - I think a few big boxes ran off most of them then Best Buy ran them off (home entertainment, pre modia when they actually sold nice stuff, etc)

If anyone actually owns these - drops some pics in this thread and give us some impressions please.

Local dealers are not what they used to be. The internet and best buy have caused their demise to a great extent. I also believe their sometimes snobish attitudes and unwillingness to discount off msrp have not helped. I do not think you will have trouble finding a new home for your bp30's should you buy some new speakers. They seem to snapped up quickly on the used market. I would love to hear the triton 2's in my house but I don't see that happening.

Well, so much for dealers being able to provide the necessary insight to both steer and educate yyoo so that he would come away with the right impression about the speakers. Or maybe the speakers aren't necessarily that impressive to begin with.

Seriously though, it does bring to mind the point that a/v dealers aren't exactly a bastion of insight. Maybe it was more often the case back in the day when times were much better for the audio industry and dealers could afford to pay higher salaries to attract more knowledgeable employees who might also have better communication skills.

Nowadays, I would be equally confident reading Amazon user reviews to gain useful guidance about the product as I would from dealer feedback. That's not to say either is necessarily going to be great, only that there probably isn't going to be a whole lot of difference between the two in terms of finding useful, valid information.

Now, couple that with alkemac's point about 30 day in home audition (quoted below), in my view, it does challenge the notion that strict dealer-only speaker availability being the best marketing approach to take. Especially for those out in the boondocks who don't have any dealers nearby. But of course, that's Sandy's call to make. There are probably many other factors I might not be thinking of at the moment.

2+2:

OK, HiFi, enlighten us further....

Getting the best Sound Quality From the Triton Two
--------------------------------------------------
Well first lets start off with what Sandy recommends:


The bass is better than what we are used to, but consumers need to take the time to adapt. Further, with the Triton Two's new technology, previous speaker setup experience actually becomes a hindrance.

We already discussed they should be toed-in more than speakers with dome tweeters.
Further testing indicates that you want to see a bit of the speakers inner side wall from the listening position.

Listening analysis indicates the Tritons require a lot of room to breath. They must be placed further out from the walls than the majority of tower speakers. There is no need for bass reinforcement from the walls. (This is a huge and welcome change from the Def-Tech Supercube Reference subwoofer corner placement recommendation - if I remember correctly).

Room Size - Doing the Math
Adding the speakers considerable depth to the distance from the rear wall limits small room usage.

An ideal environment would be a typical, sparsely furnished front projector based home theater room. Considerable unobstructed, surrounding air space is required for optimal 3D atmosphere regeneration.

First I've come to realize that in our country, we are frequently the last to enjoy the benefits of many new technologies.
So what are the benefits of a true all-digital amplifier? Are they audibly better than the the analog class D amplifier used in previous subwoofers?
In Asia, this digital amplifier technology has been in the making for over 10 years. They picked the baton after TI and European ICE amplifiers ceased to innovate:
http://www.pulsus.co.kr/english/technology/tech_02.html

What are the benefits of performing Digital Signal Processing (DSP) in the subwoofer rather than the receiver with Audyssey?
In other words can the Audyssey "room correction" allow placement of the Triton Two against the wall and maintain its 3D sound quality?
Can it correct dips and "mud" caused by room modes?
The answer is an emphatic no.
So why is Audyssey so popular? The answer lies in marketing - to keep consumers buying "new and improved" receivers each year.

Instead, the superior solution is to let the experienced speaker design team passively adjust the overall frequency response, then tailor the active subwoofer's response with Digital Signal Processing (DSP) equalization in the speakers bass module. After all, they design, engineer and specify every driver and enclosure parameter.
Hopefully now everyone can see the new possibilities thanks to all-digital amplifiers.
Note: Best Buy has a SOTA lightweight, 120watt, seven channel receiver with all-digital amplification for $300 (which quite incidentally consumers were also unable to fathom). It mates beautifully with the Triton Two. I guess we have been too pre-programmed with advertising to think independently.

Note: The subwoofer equalization DSP occurs before the amplifier DSP (mainly pcm-pwm conversion).

Wolvernole: I've stated a lot which some may not understand. However I've only got a few posts as to not loose the focus of the thread.

i forgot what the focus of this thread is

so far i've learned (over and over) that dome tweeters and bi-polar are bad

and some how it's all Nancy Pelosi's fault

DUDE !

That's cute! Levity is therapeutic. Audiophiles need levity

Priceless!!!

I have a 5. minus the 1 Def Tech system.
Now, the GoldenEar had to come along and ruin my thinking I had the "Best In Class" loudspeaker brand.
At some point, I will need to audition these.

The bass volume must have been up to high or something. I didn't notice muddy bass at all. Did you check out Revel before the B&W? Those look sweet, but way out of my range

"Note: Best Buy has a SOTA lightweight, 120watt, seven channel receiver with all-digital amplification for $300 (which quite incidentally consumers were also unable to fathom). It mates beautifully with the Triton Two. I guess we have been too pre-programmed with advertising to think independently."

HiFiFun...I went to the Best Buy site and couldn't locate this $300 all digital receiver. What is the model # & brand?

Thanks

I have a question that I hope Sandy answers: Can the SuperSat 3C (horizontal configuration of the SuperSat 3) be used for the surround sound speakers in a TritonCinema Two System? The drivers are the same but does the crossover (or something else) make them sonically different?

StaleOnion, I think the only difference is the orientation of the tweeter?

Hi, Absolutely you can use the horizontal 3C as rear surrounds (or actually as front L & R also). It has a different tweeter orientation and logo for horizontal use. Sandy

I was inside a Best Buy today and didn't see this AVR.



Very smart!

Hey there, first, thanks for pulling back the rhetoric. I totally hear what you're saying with regard to wanting to test as many components as possible - I have never spent fewer than 6-9 months when looking for a new audiophile stereo system, spending a lot of time reading and listening and driving. The AV world with it's 5.1-7.1 systems has proved to be an incredible frustrating one for the intrepid audiophile willing to put in that time - dealers often don't have stock on the items they carry or, if they do, have not yet figured out a good way to demonstrate competing systems. It's a bit of a mess.

I agree that Amazon and online dealers have done some amazing things for consumers, and if you know what you're looking for it's a great place to shop. Pricing is low, the delivery system would seem to be more environmentally friendly, consumers don't have to put wear and tear on their cars etc. But I don't think that, at this point, it would be the wisest way to launch this particular product line. First of all, I don't think production has even gotten to the point of being able to support such wide distribution. And one missing part from a box as the system works out its kinks is just the sort of thing that could lead to a 3 star review or worse.

I, like you, am waiting to hear from users and more reviewers. My local dealer doesn't yet have the Sat 50 system in stock and set-up. But this is just part of what happens with the roll-out of a new product.

Sandy,

Thank you so much for your rapid answer...and on a weekend, you guys continue to impress! I was confused by the phrase, "....optimized for center channel use/application" and the words "Wall-Mounted/Shelf-Mounted Center Channel" on the 3C box. I was concerned that perhaps the crossover was different than the SuperSat 3 but your answer confirms that the 3 and 3C have the same crossover (and drivers). Maybe better names would have been 3V and 3H? By the way, my problem was that due to the configuration of my windows and moldings, the 3C physically fits better than the 3. OK, now it is back to drilling holes in my walls!!

Thank you, Sandy's answer proves you are correct, the tweeter is oriented 90 degrees relative to the longitudinal axis of the 3C as compared with the 3, which maintains the tweeter orientation constant with respect to a level plane in both the 3 and 3C.

Okay, time for a progress report. After spending a little more than two weeks with the Triton Cinema Two system, I must say I'm thoroughly impressed (even more so than when I first set them up!). Just listening to the two towers alone almost makes you think that your listening to maybe a 5.1 set up as the soundstage of these speakers are amazing. They really fill the room up! And that is one of the main reasons I like these over the STs is the imaging is almost three dimensional. I still slightly prefer the STs for their vocal reproduction abilities but other than that the Tritons have them beat. The treble is well defined, the mids do their job without calling attention to themselves, and the bass has great impact. What more can you ask for in a speaker?

I've set my speakers about 2' from the wall and they don't seem muddled and the bass isn't overwhelming either. I started with the dial at the 12 o'clock position but have dialed it back to about the 10 to 11 o'clock position. The lower end of these speakers produce a much fuller image than my STs. We use to use a Sunfire EQ sub when watching movies but we both think the extra impact of these are enough to not warrant the use of the Sunfire which is all the more impressive considering the size of the cabinets of the Tritons (although the Sunfire would definitely add a little more but I think it would be more for show than anything else). I have taped over the green light on the back of them as the light projects off the rear wall and can be annoying while watching a movie in a dimly lit room. I guess that would be my only real complaint as I have no real issues with the performance of these speakers although we did have a few initial issues that were fixed by the great customer service from both the dealer I purchased them at and Goldenear.

These speakers also can be played quite loud. Been mainly driving them with a Yamaha Z7 receiver but also broke out my old trusted Grand Integra M508 and even that amp couldn't stress these speakers. I think they sound much better at higher volumes than the STs do. I haven't gotten them to clip just yet (my ears had enough). Even at modest levels these speakers impress. We actually didn't plan on selling our STs from our vacation home but are now contemplating the move as both I and the wife prefer the sound of these to anything that we have owned or have auditioned before (I still miss my Polk 2.3's though). I do think room placement has quite an effect on how these sound (as do a lot of speakers) because neither of us thought they sounded quite the same as they did in the dealer showroom. Your best bet would be to find a dealer that will let you audition them at your place before you make the purchase. Something you can't really do with an online purchase. Can we also put to rest the argument of a online purchase versus purchasing from a local dealer? You really can't compare the two and if money is the driving force for your purchase, maybe you should be looking at another brand anyway?

And for all of you guys blogging and spending all this time talking about the specs and what kind of tweeter or amps are built into these...WHO GIVES A RATS AS*! Just go out and audition these and let your ears decide if you like them or not. It doesn't matter what kind of amp or guts they are made out of or what the specs state. These are speakers and judge them on what they sound like not what a piece of paper says!

I almost forgot to mention something about the 50C center speaker and the rear 3's. I guess they just do there job and kind of blend into the system that there's not much to say about them really. I have mainly used them for movies so I can't really make a good judgment on them for music. If I knew I was going to use the system a lot for surround sound music, I might have purchased the 50's for the rears as well. I would suggest anyone who is looking into purchasing the Triton Cinema system to look into this if surround sound music is your thing as they might sound a little "weak" for a dedicated 5.1 music system.

My final thought would be just go out and let your ears hear these speakers. It doesn't matter what kind of tweeter is in them or what kind of amp drives the subs. Bottom line is how they sound to you in your home and your only going to find that out if you stop dissecting the specs and just go give them a listen. Everybody's ears are different and what sounds good to you might sound bad to the next person. The only way your going to know if you like these or not is to give them an audition. I did and I'm thinking about purchasing a second set. What more can I say?

Enough said. Goodbye everyone and enjoy your search for the ultimate loudspeaker!

Sandy,
When I asked the above question, I assumed you may not have time to reply, so I also asked it of GE tech, their answer as follows:

"The SuperSat 3 models are intended to be the surround/rear speakers in a SuperCinema or TritonCinema system. You were correct to get the 3C for horizontal use, which will be perfect as your system's surround speakers. The optimized for center use really means optimized for horizontal use. And actually the crossover is slightly different in the horizontal C model."



The last line makes seems to indicate that there is a sonic difference between the 3 and 3C (obviously the wiring has to be slightly different to accomodate the rotation of the tweeter, but that in itself will not make the crossover behave differently). So, bottom line: is the 3 BETTER suited for my two surround speakers than the 3C? Or was the crossover difference reference above just part of the evolution of the design and not part of an optimization for the center channel?

Thank You again.....listening to my Tritons as I type this...WONDERFUL! and the workmanship is superb......they look like modern art!