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ColorMunki - How Good or How Bad? - Page 2

post #31 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMo View Post

I would like to see it working in CalMAN so I could have some verifiable results but it looks like that may have to wait.

I've been puzzled by your posts but now I think you're trying to use a ColorMunki spectro with CalMAN. I don't think it's supported in anything but 3.6 builds from 258. I believe your installation issues are unrelated.
post #32 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinmar View Post

Vx100 is not consumer but business professional monitor....
Please see panasonic web site....

Well ... Panasonic positions the TH-65VX100U (Premier) to the CI market while the TH-65PF12UK is targeted at the commercial market (post-production and commercial signage). However I understand they use the same neo-pdp panels in the Z1.

In any case back to your original question -- there've a few comparisons of low cost spectros to tri-stims. You might want to review those with an eye toward low light performance since UAV measured the MLL of the TH-65VX100U at .02 nits which is a bit below the .2 nit floor of an i1p. 9G Kuros are darker. SpectraCal shows the lower limit of a CM as 0 but without a precision qualifier.
post #33 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

9G Kuros are darker.

But also very linear. If the rest of the greyscale's properly calibrated, you can be fairly certain the lower end is, too. No matter what the i1Pro is reading
post #34 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

D-Nice will be testing the ColorMunki (compared to the I1 Pros) on his 9G Kuros and the results will be posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spinmar View Post

Well done
Could you post the results or where we can find them?

Yes
post #35 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by ev666il View Post

But also very linear. If the rest of the greyscale's properly calibrated, you can be fairly certain the lower end is, too.

I suppose if you're comparing them to a lesser panel that's true. However in my experience it depends on how fussy you are.

But I believe the 1ip is D-Nice's Kuro meter and his reports speak for themselves.
post #36 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I've been puzzled by your posts but now I think you're trying to use a ColorMunki spectro with CalMAN. I don't think it's supported in anything but 3.6 builds from 258. I believe your installation issues are unrelated.

Correct. I tried using the CalMAN Enhanced ColorMunki with the latest version 3.62 and build 258 CalMAN Home edition. Also, the ColorMunki software version I received was the designer, not photo. I can't get it to work in CalMAN and I can't get Windows to update the NET framework. The version of Windows Vista X64 Ultimate is OEM and I have never gotten a program that required NET to work. Installations have said in the past that NET was not installed and would now exit, and when I would try and install NET framework it would say that it was the wrong version. Well, I'm not getting the wrong version error anymore but it doesn't install.
post #37 of 252
bodosom-

I think I see what you are saying. What I see on the site is build 262 and not 258. I will try the one given by the link in my email again (prior to the new version). Maybe the driver had not installed properly since I was not connected to the internet?
post #38 of 252
IIRC, the ColorMunki Design is white, and the ColorMunki Photo is black, and otherwise the hardware is identical. They come with different software, and I don't read great things about its bundled software, or maybe is not ideal for projector calibration. There is also the ColorMunki Create, which is a cheap and totally different product outside the scope of what we're doing here.

My question: what software supports the ColorMunki Design/Photo hardware? The bundled software yes, later versions of CalMan yes. Above it says HCFR no. ChromaPure ColorFacts no. Is there any other calibration software to consider?
post #39 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe Tag View Post

My question: what software supports the ColorMunki Design/Photo hardware? The bundled software yes, later versions of CalMan yes. Above it says HCFR no. ChromaPure ColorFacts no. Is there any other calibration software to consider?

1. Bundled software
2. CalMAN
3. Free ArgyllCMS 1.1.0
4. NEC SpectraView II
5. EIZO ColorNavigator.

I don't know how SpectraCal has got ColorMunki SDK from X-Rite, but X-Rite is blocking support to some software development companies.
See for example http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/...howtopic=40885
post #40 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokap View Post

I don't know how SpectraCal has got ColorMunki SDK from X-Rite

Presumably because of their special relationship. How does Argyll do it?
post #41 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Presumably because of their special relationship. How does Argyll do it?

Graeme Gill (the author of ArgyllCMS) does not use SDKs.
post #42 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokap View Post

I don't know how SpectraCal has got ColorMunki SDK from X-Rite, but X-Rite is blocking support to some software development companies.

Probably because we move thousands of X-Rite meters every year as a direct OEM. In order to get the SDK for the ColorMunki you have to sign a very binding contract also be a X-Rite OEM not just a reseller and commit to a large quantity of meters or have a track record for moving a large quantity of meters. Unlike previous SDK’s “DTP-94”where X-Rite would give them out to just about anyone who asked they have learned their lesson and are being very selective on who get the current SDK’s.

So we support the ColorMunki Create, Design and Photo.
post #43 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMo View Post

bodosom-

I think I see what you are saying. What I see on the site is build 262 and not 258. I will try the one given by the link in my email again (prior to the new version). Maybe the driver had not installed properly since I was not connected to the internet?

Steve, I don't recall if you posted it earlier, but I believe your CalMAN install has to be licensed for Spectrophotometer (I1 Pro up until now) use as well as being v3.62 in order to use the CM.
post #44 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

Steve, I don't recall if you posted it earlier, but I believe your CalMAN install has to be licensed for Spectrophotometer (I1 Pro up until now) use as well as being v3.62 in order to use the CM.

Yes as of v3.6 we only have 4 types of licenses now:

Colorimeter – Spyder2, Spyder3, Display2, Chroma5, DTP-94, etc…
Spectroradiometer – i1Pro, i1Monitor, ColorMunki Design/Photo
Enthusiasts – All of the above plus Hubble and K-10
Professional – All of the above plus high end gear like the Photo Research, Konica Minolta

Our licenses are by the above types not the meter itself or serial number even if you did not buy the meter from us.
post #45 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Yes as of v3.6 we only have 4 types of licenses now:

Colorimeter – Spyder2, Spyder3, Display2, Chroma5, DTP-94, etc…
Spectroradiometer – i1Pro, i1Monitor, ColorMunki Design/Photo
Enthusiasts – All of the above plus Hubble and K-10
Professional – All of the above plus high end gear like the Photo Research, Konica Minolta

Our licenses are by the above types not the meter itself or serial number even if you did not buy the meter from us.

This was included with my purchase.

Quote:
What's Included

The CalMAN Enhanced ColorMunki kit is the full retail ColorMunki Design Kit plus a CalMAN Home license and meter enhancement. CalMAN Home with Enhanced ColorMunki includes:

* CalMAN Home licence
* White ColorMunki spectroradiometer
* ColorMunki palette creation software
* ColorMunki color calibration software
* ColorMunki protection bag/monitor holder
* Quick Start Guide
* USB power cord
* Get Grey DVD of calibration patterns

You think they sent me the wrong license on accident? You can PM if you want. I have one space left.
post #46 of 252
I sent a reply to my email that had the code in it telling them I did not know what was wrong and included a link to this thread. Thanks for the suggestions.
post #47 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

They check it's accuracy using their CS-2000 on the reference displays in their lab and provide a certificate (and the tables for CalMAN).

This is the same thing X-Rite does with the I1 Pro's (minues the tables). If the meter isn't/can't get into spec, repair is needed at an extra cost.

I need to correct this..


For ColorMunki and I1 Pro:
SpectraCal's Enhancement is to provide a LED Backlit table for use with CalMAN (not saved in the meter, but a file loaded by CalMAN)... this is the same thing they are doing for the I1 Pro. The ColorMunki and the I1 Pro are not checked for accuracy with their CS-2000 on the other Display types.

One important difference between the ColorMunki and the I1 Pro is that X-Rite (or SpectraCal) does not offer re-certification of the ColorMunki.

The I1 Pro can be re-certified by X-Rite and you will be sent another 1 Year Certificate (unless repair is needed for an additional charge).

In the future, SpectraCal may offer Re-certification for the ColorMunki and/or I1 Pro like they do now for the Klein K-10 and X-Rite OTC-1000.


.
post #48 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post


For ColorMunki and I1 Pro:

One important difference between the ColorMunki and the I1 Pro is that X-Rite (or SpectraCal) does not offer re-certification of the ColorMunki or the I1 Pro.

The I1 Pro can be re-certified by X-Rite and you will be sent another 1 Year Certificate (unless repair is needed for an additional charge).

I think you need to correct this post too.....or am I missing something??
post #49 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

For ColorMunki and I1 Pro:
SpectraCal's Enhancement is to provide a LED Backlit table for use with CalMAN (not saved in the meter, but a file loaded by CalMAN)...

Speaking of which: can the inaccuracies of the i1Pro on LED Backlit displays be quantified in terms of deltaE? How much more inaccurate is it with LED, compared to a regular display (LCD or plasma)?
post #50 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

I think you need to correct this post too.....or am I missing something??

It should be correct, basically:
  • I1 Pro - Comes with NIST Certificate, can be re-certified by X-Rite.
  • ColorMunki - No NIST Certificate, currently no option for re-certification by X-Rite.


.
post #51 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by ev666il View Post

Speaking of which: can the inaccuracies of the i1Pro on LED Backlit displays be quantified in terms of deltaE? How much more inaccurate is it with LED, compared to a regular display (LCD or plasma)?

From the few Reports I've seen, the I1 Pro (as shipped from X-Rite) is doing fine on the LED Backlit displays (though there could be issues with certain models). How much is improved with their Enhancement for CalMAN, I can't answer that at this time since as I have not seen independent reports/data for the Enhanced I1 Pros (it's a recent offering). Hopefully I'll get some input from those working on several LED Backlit Displays (from different Manufacturers).

From several Pros that I frequently speak to who use the I1 Pro, I know of no one that has sent in their I1 Pro for Enhancement (at this time).

I think we all know about the debate in regards to the I1 Pro (10 nm spectral bandwidth).. from my understanding, SpectraCal worked directly with X-Rite in development to improve performance on LED Back lit LCD's. I believe that SpectraCal has 10 Display models from different Manufacturers and have found that the LEDs used are very similar across models and Manufacturers.
post #52 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

It should be correct, basically:
  • I1 Pro - Comes with NIST Certificate, can be re-certified by X-Rite.
  • ColorMunki - No NIST Certificate, currently no option for re-certification by X-Rite.

That helps but the original posts says:
One important difference between the ColorMunki and the I1 Pro is that X-Rite (or SpectraCal) does not offer re-certification of the ColorMunki or the I1 Pro.

The I1 Pro can be re-certified by X-Rite and you will be sent another 1 Year Certificate (unless repair is needed for an additional charge).
post #53 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

That helps but the original posts says:
One important difference between the ColorMunki and the I1 Pro is that X-Rite (or SpectraCal) does not offer re-certification of the ColorMunki or the I1 Pro.

The I1 Pro can be re-certified by X-Rite and you will be sent another 1 Year Certificate (unless repair is needed for an additional charge).

No it doesn't, check



Edited... good eye
post #54 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

No it doesn't, check



Edited... good eye

Been there, done that myself ....
post #55 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

The ColorMunki is designed to be both re-certification and repair free ... They do not come with a calibration certificate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

  • I1 Pro - Comes with NIST Certificate, can be re-certified by X-Rite.
  • ColorMunki - No NIST Certificate, currently no option for re-certification by X-Rite.

Ah, yeah. As I said X-Rite's position is that the main function of recert/repair is to deal with lamp drift, irrelevant to those of us measuring emission, and since the CM doesn't have a "lamp" there's no point in recert. The LED that replaces the lamp isn't supposed to drift in the useful lifetime of the device and, according to the person I spoke with, can't be (reasonably) repaired.
post #56 of 252
RE: I1 Pro

It is important to verify it's accuracy with a Reference.. even more important for Professionals since all their tools should be checked/certified on an annual basis. Some have access to reference spectros (that are certified themselves) but really re-certification may be the only alternative for DIYers (after a couple years). There is a chance you will spend money on re-certification and an issue comes up but this doesn't happen to much with the I1 Pros that are < 5 years old.

Again, it is very important to verify your meter is within spec after some time has passed. I think DIYers can get away with 24 months with the I1 Pro.

I wouldn't repair it myself, I'd buy an new one though. In fact, some Pros simply buy a new I1 Pro each year and ebay the old one.

As for the CM, time will tell how well they hold up.... Also, spending $200 for re-certification doesn't make much sense for a meter that costs $350.
post #57 of 252
I have tried two licensees and each say spectro, but don't recognize the meter. I'm still trying to get this worked out. In the meantime, here are a few screenshot examples from my DLP on my high power screen. This is done with 2.2 gamma, D65 Rec. 709 using the included software, and some guess work in the projectors CMS/ISF menu based on my previous CRT projector (a lowly NEC 6PG+ Rec. 709 calibrated with some cyan push).

Coraline




Jennifer's Body


On my first calibration checking greyscale patterns I had some boxes looking red at the high end, but after adjusting the meter I got only one or maybe two near the middle that looked slightly blue. I have not noticed any posterization, banding, or other issues. I still see RBE which is very unfortunate. The largest difference that I see is that there are no longer grey looking shadow details on the screen. It's also obvious that gamut has improved.
post #58 of 252
ColorMunki setup note:

If you install the X-Rite ColorMunki software they also install and start two system services that are always accessing the ColorMunki. Those two services need to be stopped in order to use CalMAN.

The service names are "X-Rite Device ColorMunki" and "X-Rite Device Manager". To stop them right click on My Computer and select "Manage" under Services you will see both of the X-Rite services. Right click on those and select "Stop". If you don't plan on using the X-Rite software to calibrate your PC then you can also "Disable" the services so the never get in the way.
post #59 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

ColorMunki setup note:

If you install the X-Rite ColorMunki software they also install and start two system services that are always accessing the ColorMunki. Those two services need to be stopped in order to use CalMAN.

The service names are "X-Rite Device ColorMunki" and "X-Rite Device Manager". To stop them right click on My Computer and select "Manage" under Services you will see both of the X-Rite services. Right click on those and select "Stop". If you don't plan on using the X-Rite software to calibrate your PC then you can also "Disable" the services so the never get in the way.

Tried that. I also tried after using the ColorMunki design software (separate from the tray icon to calibrate) which immediately tells me that the ColorMunki has shutdown.
post #60 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMo View Post

I have tried two licensees and each say spectro, but don't recognize the meter.

Not to dissuade discourse but your issues seem CalMAN (or computer) specific and there are better places than this thread to have that discussion. My experience with CalMAN and a ColorMunki (purchased elsewhere) is good. The meter works just like every other supported meter using both XP and 32-bit Vista.
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