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Jet Family Theater build is about to begin - Page 6

post #151 of 589
5/29/10 at 8:08pm
I think that requirement was after 1.1.10, you pulled your permit before that date so you should be good. I got my electrical inspection and the inspector said since my permit was pulled last year I was exempt.

http://www.unitedinspectionagency.com/
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post #152 of 589
5/29/10 at 8:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ant1024 View Post

I think that requirement was after 1.1.10, you pulled your permit before that date so you should be good. I got my electrical inspection and the inspector said since my permit was pulled last year I was exempt.

http://www.unitedinspectionagency.com/

That's good news, my permit was approved on 12/16/2009, so if as you said, I should be exempt. It will save me some money for some other use. I went through the township issued basement finishing guidelines, it only mentioned GFCI. I may give them a call anyway. Thank you!
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post #153 of 589
5/30/10 at 9:32am
Thread Starter 
I have been reading some internet articles, especially this one:
http://www.nojolt.com/residential_el...in_guide.shtml about kitchen area:
Quote:


Kitchen Receptacles - Code Summary
* In the kitchen and eating areas every counter space wider than 12 inches must have a GFI protected plug, in general all kitchen counter top plugs should be GFI protected. Countertop receptacles shall be installed so that no point along the wall is more than 24" measured horizontally from a receptacle outlet in that space. Peninsular bars and islands 12" or wider shall have at least one receptacle. Exception: Tennessee Code in dwelling unit's section states, The installation of receptacles for island counter spaces and peninsular counter spaces below the countertop shall be optional.

* At least two 20-ampere branch circuits are required to feed receptacle outlets for small appliance loads, including refrigeration equipment in the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, and dining room. These circuits, whether two or more are used, shall NOT supply anything other than receptacles in these areas. Lighting outlets and built-in appliances such as garbage disposals, hood fans, dishwashers, and trash compactors are NOT permitted on these circuits.

* Kitchen counter top receptacles must be supplied by at least two small appliance branch circuits.

* Kitchen appliance and convenience receptacles must be on 20 amp breakers, and wired with 12 gauge wire.

I read it several time and got confused, so if I have a bar, with both front and back bar and a sink, and a wine cooler under the cabinet, and potential a refrigerator, and lighting fixtures on top of the front bar and back bar, how many 20amp circuits do I need, it sounds to me that:

2 20amp circuit for the counter top GFCI receptacles, one for front bar and one for back bar
1 20amp circuit for wine cooler
1 20amp circuit for refrigerator
1 20amp for lights

What confused me is this: "Kitchen counter top receptacles must be supplied by at least two small appliance branch circuits."
Does it mean the same thing as the 2 20amp GFCI protected receptacle circuit?

About bathroom:
Quote:


At least one 20-amp circuit for bathroom receptacles must be supplied. Each bathroom must have its own GFI plug circuit with a plug near the wash basin, and no lights or other plugs or appliances on these circuits. Where a 20-ampere circuit supplies a single bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same bathroom shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance with 210.23(A). This circuit shall NOT be used to supply a major fixture such as a whirlpool or hot tub!

So, it is one circuit or two circuit, it sounds to me 2 circuitst needed to separate GFCI outlets from lights and fan, but it also said if other fixtures are not whirlpool or hot tub, then it is allowed, so sounds 1 circuit, just confused.
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post #154 of 589
5/30/10 at 6:12pm
Thread Starter 
I got most of outlet boxes and switch boxes nailed on the studs, not I am trying to figure out how to run the wire. Couple of question though:
1. Do you really need to drill holes on studs if you have like 1" space behind the stud wall?
2. If you have to run the wire crossing the joist, is it allowed to drill holes on the joists?
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post #155 of 589
5/30/10 at 6:16pm
Thread Starter 
One more question, for wire rough in, do I have to connect the wire to the devices (receptacles, switches, lights, etc). If no, I can just put wire nuts on the wires but on the other hand, how do you wire the recessed lights? Do you just wire nut them without boxes or just daisy chain with the cans?
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post #156 of 589
5/31/10 at 5:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by theWalkinator View Post

I got most of outlet boxes and switch boxes nailed on the studs, not I am trying to figure out how to run the wire. Couple of question though:
1. Do you really need to drill holes on studs if you have like 1" space behind the stud wall?
2. If you have to run the wire crossing the joist, is it allowed to drill holes on the joists?

1) The wire needs to be properly supported. How can you do that running it behind the stud? Sound like you should just drill your holes.
2) If you keep the joist holes within the first 1/3 of the joist length (don't drill in the middle 1/3) and keep your hole at 2" or higher from the bottom you should be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theWalkinator View Post

One more question, for wire rough in, do I have to connect the wire to the devices (receptacles, switches, lights, etc). If no, I can just put wire nuts on the wires but on the other hand, how do you wire the recessed lights? Do you just wire nut them without boxes or just daisy chain with the cans?

Normally for rough-in, you do not connect wiring to your actual devices. For receptacles/lightswitch boxes, just run your wire into the boxes, wirenut where needed for daisy chain, pigtails for outlet (if code dictates) etc, and fold the ends back into the box for them to inspect. I just hung Romex down for where my can lights were going and that was fine/common practice. Inspector wants to see that you have made appropriate rough-in connections, followed wire support rules etc. Not sure what they would say about having final fixtures hooked-up.

BTW...I pulled my permit in April 2009 and they required me to use AFCI breakers AND tamper proof outlets, so I believe the AFCI rule went into effect 1/1/09 not 1/1/10.
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post #157 of 589
5/31/10 at 7:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by theWalkinator View Post

Do you really need to drill holes on studs if you have like 1" space behind the stud wall?
2. If you have to run the wire crossing the joist, is it allowed to drill holes on the joists?

I just drilled holes in every other stud, looping the wire in the 1" gap, saves time and is fine with the code.

You can drill holes in joists. Or use existing holes if there are any.

On your kitchen 20A GFCI, not sure how many circuits/outlets you have, but I just ran 1 circuit and will have 1 GFCI for 6 outlets in my kitchenette area, the first outlet will have the GFCI, the rest will not.
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post #158 of 589
5/31/10 at 8:54am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmidtwi View Post

I just drilled holes in every other stud, looping the wire in the 1" gap, saves time and is fine with the code.

You can drill holes in joists. Or use existing holes if there are any.

On your kitchen 20A GFCI, not sure how many circuits/outlets you have, but I just ran 1 circuit and will have 1 GFCI for 6 outlets in my kitchenette area, the first outlet will have the GFCI, the rest will not.

Thanks, many have advised me as well to drill holes so I guess that is what I am going to do.

On the bar circuit, I can run as many circuits as I want since it is just in rough-in phase, but I also want to confirm with the code and run minimum number of circuits as code allowed. The code not only requires two dedicated circuits for counter top outlets, but also requires the outlets to be "split duplex" ones, I guess it probably means to bring a single 220v line in, and split into two 110v opposite phase circuit so that the two plugs on each outlet are on separate circuits. It probably make sense if you plug microwave to one plug and a coffee make to the other on the same outlet, but they are on separate circuit, make it safer.

Do you also run your kitchenette lights on the same circuit?
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post #159 of 589
6/1/10 at 9:00pm
Thread Starter 
In order to run rough in electrical wires in bar area, I have finally decided the design of bar, and this evening after work, I went to HD and got some more 2x4's, then after dinner, I managed to get the bar framed and put together temporarily, here is what it looks like:







Due to the space limitation, this is the best design that I can come up with that boss a.k.a wife and I can both agree with. You can see back bar top outlet boxes have been installed on the wall.

I also grab few 22 cubic inch blue boxes since few places I want to branch or split the circuit from one outlet instead of daisy chain them so it will make some wire run easier and save some wires as well, I can branch the circuit, can I?
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post #160 of 589
6/5/10 at 3:09pm
Thread Starter 
I start rough wiring today, first, I have to find a way to secure and support existing wires.

Here are bunch of existing wires hanging behind the stud wall, there are electrical wires, phone wires and coax cables:




I bought some MultiCable Staples from Home Depot:


Since the wires are behind the studs, I can not use Multicable staples directly on the studs, so I came up with this method, first, I cut a small nailer blocking, then, snip the front tip of the staple and nailed the staple on to the nailer blocking, cutting off the tip of the staple allows me to position the staple closer to the concrete wall:



Then I test fit if this approach works, and it seems Okay:


I cut more blockings and installed them on every other studs:




some are nailed to the top plate since the space is tight, I need to position the staple in the middle of the studs:
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post #161 of 589
6/5/10 at 3:14pm
Thread Starter 
So with the existing wires secured, I moved to drilling holes on the studs for new wires, I drilled few holes and I have to stop 1, I need recharge the battery, and 2. I also encounter area that drill+spade is too long to bit fit in between the studs, so this really got me thinking again, why can I use the same method to support and secure the new wires with MultiCable Stapes? If I run 4, 5 new circuits along this wall, that will save me a lot of hole drilling, do you think the inspector will be OK with it?
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post #162 of 589
6/5/10 at 3:22pm
Very creative
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post #163 of 589
6/5/10 at 3:25pm
Thread Starter 
Few closeup shots:





It is not very neat due to little space behind the studs and wires are running cross over each other, but nonetheless, the existing wires do not just dangling. If I do this with new wires, wires will be running in parallel and it will be much neater.
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post #164 of 589
6/5/10 at 4:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidinCT View Post

Very creative

Thanks David, I just hope Inspector will be OK with it.
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post #165 of 589
6/5/10 at 6:58pm
Nice way to address that wiring. I can't imagine that the inspector will have a problem with it.
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post #166 of 589
6/6/10 at 9:13am
Thread Starter 
How do you drill holes on studs in tight space? Right angle drill is pricey and would right angle attachment work just fine?
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post #167 of 589
6/6/10 at 3:58pm
I thought right angle drills were pricey too....

I paid $29 for my right angle drill at Harbour Freight Tools when in Niagara Falls NY a few months ago.
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post #168 of 589
6/6/10 at 7:37pm
I used this one for where I needed it and it worked fine http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

Although, for another $10 having a dedicated drill (the Harbor Freight Tedd mentions) would probably be a better idea.
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post #169 of 589
6/6/10 at 7:52pm
http://www.harborfreight.com/power-t...ill-92956.html
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post #170 of 589
6/7/10 at 8:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

http://www.harborfreight.com/power-t...ill-92956.html

Good find, I can use 20% off coupon so it will only cost $24, good deal, thanks.

One question, how many 12-2 wires can you run through a single hole, is there any NEC code about this? Just couldn't find it. Some say two wires is fine, just wasn't sure.
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post #171 of 589
6/11/10 at 6:00am
Amazing build thread and amazing progress. Very intimidating... I wish I was more handy. lol

What burb are you in? I'm in West Chester.
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post #172 of 589
6/13/10 at 11:36am
Thread Starter 
I need some advices from the members here:

1. Do you run a separate circuit for projector? How do you surge protect it?
2. For power recliners, do you run separate circuit for it?
3. How many circuits for the rack? I planed two, but I could run 3.
4. Do you also put subwoofers in the back?

All my circuits are 20amp ones.

Thanks.
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post #173 of 589
6/15/10 at 8:33am
I haven't gotten on here in awhile. Looks like you are making great progress. How much did the wood cost you so far? How long is your Permit good for?

My neighbor just finished his, but he never got a Permit. He told me you only need one if you want it to be counted in the homes value. If you don't get one it just won't raise your value. IS this true? Regardless I wouldn't see why any one would not opt for a Permit. A few hundred on a Permit to get thousands back seems worth it to me.

Keep up the good work

Judd
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post #174 of 589
6/15/10 at 8:46am
Maybe it's been asked before, but I just stumbled in this thread. What computer software did you use for your drawings? I absolutely love the visualization they provide.
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post #175 of 589
6/15/10 at 9:54am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddyl33 View Post

Maybe it's been asked before, but I just stumbled in this thread. What computer software did you use for your drawings? I absolutely love the visualization they provide.

Thanks, it is google's SketchUp, http://sketchup.google.com/#utm_camp..._term=sketchup, free and a lot of members use it, very easy to use.
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post #176 of 589
6/15/10 at 10:08am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Limp Fox View Post

I haven't gotten on here in awhile. Looks like you are making great progress. How much did the wood cost you so far? How long is your Permit good for?

My neighbor just finished his, but he never got a Permit. He told me you only need one if you want it to be counted in the homes value. If you don't get one it just won't raise your value. IS this true? Regardless I wouldn't see why any one would not opt for a Permit. A few hundred on a Permit to get thousands back seems worth it to me.

Keep up the good work

Judd

Thanks Judd. I bought 200 2x4s from Lowes around $2 a piece back to Feb, now it is around $2.75 at local big box store (Lowes, HD). I also bought some more later, so far I would say the woods cost me around $700. I asked why the price of studs went up so much, the answer I got is due to Haiti's rebuild projects.

On the permit, I thought about not pulling it, but decided against it so I spent $600 for the permits, it is good for a year. There are a lot of debates on this board about pulling or not pulling permits, but my reasons are mainly due the the fact that I don't want to get in trouble in case I need to sell the house, some said penalties include fine and back taxes etc if they found out. Insurance coverage is another consideration, so yeah, my advice is to get the permit.
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post #177 of 589
6/15/10 at 10:51am
Thread Starter 
I am looking at 30' long HDMI cables and found 2 online sources, and can't decide on which one, the Monoprice one: http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2 is not certified "high speed", but the build quality is the same as the one under 25' which is certified for "high speed", kind of v1.4 minus the Ethernet, it is thicker, 22awg. The other one from Meritline, http://www.meritline.com/30feet-hdmi...--p-44017.aspx is v1.4 certified, but it is thinner, only 26awg. I am leaning to the meritline one, it is certified v1.4 and easier to run in conduit, just wondering anyone else has compared the two. I have bought 6' HDMI cables from meritline, cheap and good.
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post #178 of 589
6/15/10 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Limp Fox View Post

My neighbor just finished his, but he never got a Permit. He told me you only need one if you want it to be counted in the homes value. If you don't get one it just won't raise your value. IS this true?

It depends on your local building code. Around here you need a permit if: you are doing anything structural; anything electrical; anything with gas, (and likely more).
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post #179 of 589
6/21/10 at 11:41pm
Thread Starter 
All my electrical wires rough in are almost done except the theater lighting circuits, I have 6 zone GE and I am not sure how to zone up, here is my thought:

Zone 1: Wall scones
Zone 2: Recessed lights along south and north soffit
Zone 3: Recessed stage down lights and back soffit down lights
Zone 4: Stage screen back lights
Zone 5: Star ceiling
Zone 6: Step lights

What I am not sure are,
1. Can star ceiling be dimmed?
2. Do you also dim the step lights?

I will upload some wiring pictures later this week.
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post #180 of 589
6/22/10 at 1:08pm
Thread Starter 
Bump for my question, how many zones do you have and what are they?
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