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post #151 of 2851
Although I don't have a Ham License, can I join ARRL anyway...just so I have another voice in Washington?
post #152 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenglish View Post

Although I don't have a Ham License, can I join ARRL anyway...just so I have another voice in Washington?

You can join but as an associate I think. You will get QST but won't be able to vote.
post #153 of 2851
I just read the net neutrality link you posted, Falcon, and this is one battle I hope the FCC actually wins. For once, they're actually fighting for the CONSUMERS (at least from all appearances), and furthermore, they're talking primarily about true (wired) broadband, not all this "pretend" wireless broadband that threatens to screw up the broadcast spectrum and still won't give anybody real wireless broadband from the perspective of anyone who's using such an animal.

And it's pretty obvious that companies like Comcast ARE, in reality, terrified that if people can download movies off the internet they might drop their TV subscriptions, regardless of what other reasons they use. Well, if you're going to offer (and make people pay through the nose for) broadband speeds in excess of 10 mbps, then you had better expect they're not just going to use them to send emails, huh?

Seems some of the high-speed broadband providers want things both ways!
Jeff
post #154 of 2851
FCC Asserts Right to Regulate Spectrum

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2362475,00.asp

Quote:


Earlier this week, Seidenberg was interviewed by Wall Street Journal deputy managing editor Alan Murray for an event hosted by the Council on Foreign Relations. When asked by an audience member about the FCC's plan to auction of spectrum currently held by TV broadcasters for mobile use, Seidenberg said that the FCC should not "tinker with this."

"I think the market's going to settle this," Seidenberg said, according to Multichannel News. "So in the long term, if we can't show that we have applications and services to utilize that spectrum better than the broadcasters, then the broadcasters will keep the spectrum."
post #155 of 2851
Hmmmm, that quote from Verizon's Seidenberg sounds good for the broadcast industry, but almost suspicious... After reading the entire article link you posted, Andy, what I get out of it is that Verizon has already been able to get as much spectrum as it feels it will need for the foreseeable future through purchases it made in 2008, and perhaps since then, and is attempting to "soften" the wireless industry's "big bad wolf" image while at the same time perhaps putting its competitors in a more difficult position if they want to support the FCC's position, as they might actually need more wireless spectrum NOW.

If so, this is a both a shrewd business move and public relations move from Verizon. Whatever it is, I think it's good for the broadcast industry's position that FINALLY a major wireless company has come out in opposition to the FCC's spectrum-grab plan.
Jeff
post #156 of 2851
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffAHayes View Post

Hmmmm, that quote from Verizon's Seidenberg sounds good for the broadcast industry, but almost suspicious... After reading the entire article link you posted, Andy, what I get out of it is that Verizon has already been able to get as much spectrum as it feels it will need for the foreseeable future through purchases it made in 2008, and perhaps since then, and is attempting to "soften" the wireless industry's "big bad wolf" image while at the same time perhaps putting its competitors in a more difficult position if they want to support the FCC's position, as they might actually need more wireless spectrum NOW.

If so, this is a both a shrewd business move and public relations move from Verizon. Whatever it is, I think it's good for the broadcast industry's position that FINALLY a major wireless company has come out in opposition to the FCC's spectrum-grab plan.
Jeff

don't be so quick to pat him on the back

A) He's retiring

B) Verizon Wants, Doesn't Want, New Spectrum?
FCC Points Out Seidenberg's Inconsistent Comments


Verizon CEO Iven Seidenberg, who is on his way out as CEO of Verizon, might want to take back an interview he conducted this week, as it has given him nothing but trouble. Buried somewhere between his comments about wanting the iPhone to come to Verizon and his plans to hunt and throttle video users, Seidenberg made the comment that he thought there wasn't really much of a spectrum crunch after all -- and that he thought the FCC should stay out of managing spectrum. The FCC thinks those comments were rather strange, and in a blog post document countless instances where Verizon has stated the exact opposite:

The fact is, Verizon played a major role in building an overwhelming record in support of more mobile broadband spectrum, consistently expressing its official view that the country faces a looming spectrum crisis that could undermine the country's global competitiveness. . .The National Broadband Plan record contains widespread agreement and a solid foundation of factual evidence on the need for the FCC to pursue policies that would free up 500 Mhz for mobile broadband by 2020

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/V...pectrum-107817
post #157 of 2851
Hi,

Here are 3 links to youtube videos that discuss the FCC taking away TV spectrum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dvCwQ1ZAYs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFce7SNf9jw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eDS35G87cY

I hope people find this useful.
post #158 of 2851
Ummmm, BCF, if you actually READ my post, I wasn't "patting Seidenberg on the back AT ALL," although I was happy to see ANYONE at the top of a wireless company saying things like that (for obvious reasons), I said I'm certain he said them for purely business and public relations purposes for Verizon (and if he's about to retire, so much the better for him -- makes him look like a good guy).

It just appears from the article that Verizon has made pre-emptive moves in the race for more wireless spectrum and so Seidenberg is backing off on support of the FCC's plan to try to force the issue because his company doesn't NEED the spectrum as badly as do AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile and the others, and so this puts them in a position of having to work harder to get it -- and look worse politically in the process -- while Verizon can sit on the sidelines and take advantage of all the wireless it already has.

If this really IS true, then Verizon just made a smart business move and got AHEAD of this issue before it became something the NAB and CTIA started running ADS against, and NOW they're sitting pretty and can just sit back and rake in the profits and laugh at their competitors as they scramble to play catch-up.

The enjoy a similar position with their FIOS network, where it's employed. While a lot of their major competitors have NOT put profits into improving their infrastructure, it appears Verizon HAS been, which to me is very smart business.

As a matter of disclosure, by the way, I don't any stock -- in any companies -- and certainly not in any of the Telecoms. Were I to buy some, however, I think I'd probably look at Verizon's stock first. Also, Verizon FIOS isn't available in my area and likely never will be. If it were, however, from what I've read I'd have been a customer A LONG TIME AGO!
Jeff
post #159 of 2851
I just clicked on all three of your links above, jwwm, and listened (or read) them all to their conclusions... The third one was a bit lame, but the first two -- the interviews with Capitol Broadcast owner Jim Goodmon -- were excellent.

He made some very salient points most of us have pounded time and again in this thread. What I fail to understand is that -- especially in light of the fact that a former FCC official appears to have publicly admitted he deliberately delayed the digital TV transition NOT to give viewers more "time to prepare," but to screw with broadcasters and cost them more money -- this battle isn't a REGULAR part of the nightly news, both local AND National!

I don't watch too much of the local news, since it's mostly just sensationalistic stuff here (I watch the weather), but I try to catch at least one national broadcast -- usually ABC -- EVERY night, and I don't think I've YET to see a single story on this battle -- at least nothing about how the FCC is going about this and the VERY anti-broadcast tactics and attitude they've adopted.

As I've said time and again, where my house sits I practically need A TOWER to get decent broadcast reception, so it's not a personal issue for me, but it's still a VITAL societal issue, in my opinion! If the idiots in news departments continue to sit on their hands while the FCC gains traction, they may find broadcast TV as archaic as button shoes!
Jeff
post #160 of 2851
Related article was posted 4/12/2010 on the TVNewsCheck web site.

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/articles/2010/04/12/daily.2/

It references the interview of Verizon CEO Ivan Seidenberg, that some of you have already mentioned, which was given at a CFR general meeting. The link to the full video is below. It is a very interesting watch, Anglo-American fat cat establishment and all!

http://www.cfr.org/publication/21834

Basic points:

1. Technology will make spectrum use more efficient. (4G, etc.)

2. Efficiency is market driven.

3. The cable industry has bought about 150 MHz over the last 10-15 years that they aren't using.

4. Verizon supporting reallocation of broadcast spectrum would be motivated by selfish self interest, not by need!
post #161 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffAHayes View Post

...the interviews with Capitol Broadcast owner Jim Goodmon -- were excellent.

He made some very salient points most of us have pounded time and again in this thread. What I fail to understand is that -- especially in light of the fact that a former FCC official appears to have publicly admitted he deliberately delayed the digital TV transition NOT to give viewers more "time to prepare," but to screw with broadcasters and cost them more money -- this battle isn't a REGULAR part of the nightly news, both local AND National... If the idiots in news departments continue to sit on their hands while the FCC gains traction, they may find broadcast TV as archaic as button shoes!
Jeff

Unfortunately local broadcasters have to live with the FCC. (Don't make them too mad or they may retaliate by trying to catch you on a technicality.) On the other hand the networks will survive whether local broadcasting does or not.
post #162 of 2851
Remarks of Chairman Julius Genachowski
Federal Communications Commission
NAB Show 2010
Las Vegas, Nevada
April 13, 2010

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-297469A1.pdf

As the comments are quite long, I will quote the "myths":

Quote:


Let me now address some myths about incentive auctions.

Myth #1: The plan is to confiscate broadcasters’ spectrum and drive broadcasters out of business.

Not so. Again, the incentive auction plan is voluntary. No one will be forced to participate. In fact, this is the opposite of a confiscation; it would be an economic boost to broadcasters that elect to participate.

Also it’s important to note that that the broadband plan anticipates that broadcast spectrum would be less than 25 percent of the 500 MHz target in the broadband plan. No spectrum stone is being unturned.

Myth #2: The plan will diminish voices and harm the values of broadcast diversity and localism.

To the contrary, giving broadcasters new options and an additional source of financing should strengthen the industry and bolster the public interest.

The plan could bring the greatest benefits to broadcasters that provide programming to underrepresented portions of a local community.

Because the advertising base is smaller, the traditional broadcast model has always been a challenge for such broadcasters, and digital fragmentation is putting more pressure on the business model. It’s a particular challenge for these stations to invest in new streams of overthe-air digital programming where that programming isn’t subject to must carry.

The incentive auction plan would give local broadcasters serving minority or other underrepresented audiences a new choice: share spectrum, continue programming and carriage, reduce operating costs, and gain a capital infusion. For some broadcasters, it could make the difference in having a business and staying on the air.

Myth #3: The Plan will prevent broadcasters from deploying Mobile DTV.

Another misperception. I’m pleased that the DTV transition has enabled the development of standards and the launch of market trials for mobile DTV. Our job is not to predict innovation or business models, but to enable them. Under the incentive auction plan, broadcasters will be able to provide mobile DTV, both licensees that choose to retain all 6 megahertz, and those that choose to share.

Myth #4: Consumers will need to purchase new equipment

Not the case. First, of course, the plan would have no effect at all on viewers who receive their broadcast signals from cable, telephone or satellite providers. Viewers who receive their broadcast signals over-the-air would simply need to rescan their current TVs or converter boxes. And to the extent a transition would impose any new costs on broadcasters themselves, those costs could be covered by the auction proceeds.

#1: Voluntary unless not enough spectrum is recovered.
#2: An additional source of financing? What, a one-time payment? What about 2 years down the road?
#3: Of course, it doesn't *prevent* it as long as the broadcaster in question retains some spectrum, but exactly how many Mobile DTV channels would be available on a channel with 2 HD signals? The large number of existing sub-channels seems to be getting completely ignored as well.
#4: Would it be as simple as re-scanning for stations shoved into Low-VHF?

Sometimes I wonder if the FCC is basing its analysis on finding some way to relocate excess spectrum from, say, Central Nevada to NYC, etc.
post #163 of 2851
Myth #1: FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski has the public interest in mind!

Even if the plan allows for current broadcasters (which I don't believe it does) what about future broadcasters. Can you expect an industry to have such a major sea change as the digital transition and not have more people want to get involved? The FCC is acting like television is still analog, and it's 1947. Oh, maybe we can get along with 13 RF channels, one of which is unusable.
post #164 of 2851
Thread Starter 
Myth #1: The plan is to confiscate broadcasters' spectrum and drive broadcasters out of business.

Not so. Again, the incentive auction plan is voluntary. No one will be forced to participate.


Kind of like date rape is voluntary.
post #165 of 2851
BCF, that's the most spot-on short comment I think I've read yet (about the date rape)... Yeah, the FCC appears to be trying to date rape the broadcast industry and convince them they're supposed to like it... That's such a sanguine metaphor!
Jeff
post #166 of 2851
Below is the FCCs proposed fee schedule for 2010. You would think we were still analog since the fees (taxes) are much higher for VHF than UHF while here in the real world UHF carries further and has less interference than VHF. The FCC needs to come in out of the rain.

TV (47 CFR part 73) VHF Commercial
Markets 1-10 $78,000
Markets 11-25 $60,525
Markets 26-50 $40,675
Markets 51-100 $22,725
Remaining Markets $5,875
Construction Permits $5,875

TV (47 CFR part 73) UHF Commercial
Markets 1-10 $25,300
Markets 11-25 $24,850
Markets 26-50 $13,750
Markets 51-100 $8,225
Remaining Markets $2,025
Construction Permits $2,025

Low Power TV, Class A TV, TV/FM Translators & Boosters (47 CFR part 74) $400
Broadcast Auxiliaries (47 CFR part 74) $10

CARS (47 CFR part 78) $300
Cable Television Systems (per subscriber) (47 CFR part 76) $.86
Earth Stations (47 CFR part 25) $230

http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/2010...ory-fees/#more
post #167 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post


#1: Voluntary unless not enough spectrum is recovered.
#2: An additional source of financing? What, a one-time payment? What about 2 years down the road?
#3: Of course, it doesn't *prevent* it as long as the broadcaster in question retains some spectrum, but exactly how many Mobile DTV channels would be available on a channel with 2 HD signals? The large number of existing sub-channels seems to be getting completely ignored as well.
#4: Would it be as simple as re-scanning for stations shoved into Low-VHF?

Sometimes I wonder if the FCC is basing its analysis on finding some way to relocate excess spectrum from, say, Central Nevada to NYC, etc.

#1: "Date Rape" is a good analogy
#2: If the FCC were serious about making it voluntary, all the money from such a spectrum auction should go to broadcasters including some to those who don't give up spectrum to reimburse their costs of the digital transition.
#3: Any shared channels would make HD nearly impossible and ATSC M/H and multi-casting very difficult.
#4: Consumers might not need to purchase new equipment but their existing OTA digital TV equipment would be seriously devalued.

IIRC the Chairman also stated that rural stations need not worry because the 120 MHz is mainly needed in urban markets. The comment doesn't make sense because most TV stations are found in urban areas and major urban markets are exactly where 120 MHz won't be able to be found without destroying free OTA TV. It's a fact that if the spectrum of the more rural markets adjacent to my own local Pittsburgh market is preserved it simply isn't possible to find 120 MHz of spare spectrum in Pittsburgh unless the nearly useless for both digital TV and wireless low VHF frequencies (not currently used in the market) are counted and a number of low power stations go out of business.
post #168 of 2851
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammer View Post

Any shared channels would make HD nearly impossible and ATSC M/H and multi-casting very difficult.
#4: Consumers might not need to purchase new equipment but their existing OTA digital TV equipment would be seriously devalued.

Now sharing COULD work if mpeg4 was being used. Of course that means that new equipment WOULD be needed as no TVs have mpeg4 tuners. Of course sharing even with mpeg 4 means no/fewer subchannels. Didn't the FCC state the addition of subchannels one of the benefits of DTV tranistion? So the FCC chairman is an idiot.
post #169 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkreichen1968 View Post

Below is the FCCs proposed fee schedule for 2010. You would think we were still analog since the fees (taxes) are much higher for VHF than UHF while here in the real world UHF carries further and has less interference than VHF. The FCC needs to come in out of the rain.

Are these fees still based on the old analog channel? I remember reading that but don't know if it was for '09 or '10.

If so, the fees would be based on getting a low (high-profile) virtual channel vs. what band it's on.

Or am I trying to make sense of something that's clearly in need of a major overhaul?
post #170 of 2851
Genachowski: Spectrum Return Will Be Voluntary

http://nabshowdaily.com/NabShowToday/99116

Is the plan to keep saying this until we somehow start to believe it?

Something I want to comment on:

Quote:


Other nations are moving forward, he said. Germany is set to auction more than 340 MHz, and Japan is making 500 MHz available for mobile broadband. The FCC’s own National Broadband Plan calls for 500 MHz in new spectrum.

Germany is looking to auction from 790 - 862MHz, with the rest coming from bands other than TV. So, Germany's 340MHz only includes TV spectrum that we have already sold! i.e., not a double auction.

http://www.telecomseurope.net/conten...hz-4g-spectrum

I don't know about Japan's UHF channels yet, but I recall that some may be taken from the top. Also, they re-packed the channels to put DTV in contiguous lower UHF channels. As for VHF, it isn't being used for DTV and was going to be re-purposed after the transition. I need to verify that's still the plan. Oh yeah, Japan can also use SFN, natively.
post #171 of 2851
There is a National Broadband Plan hearing going on live now on C-SPAN 3.
post #172 of 2851
The Chairman of the House Communications Sub-committee has weighed in.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...f_Spectrum.php

No involuntary taking of spectrum. FCC should report to Congress on what spectrum is available before proceeding.
post #173 of 2851
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

Genachowski: Spectrum Return Will Be Voluntary

http://nabshowdaily.com/NabShowToday/99116

Is the plan to keep saying this until we somehow start to believe it?

Something I want to comment on:



Germany is looking to auction from 790 - 862MHz, with the rest coming from bands other than TV. So, Germany's 340MHz only includes TV spectrum that we have already sold! i.e., not a double auction.

http://www.telecomseurope.net/conten...hz-4g-spectrum

I don't know about Japan's UHF channels yet, but I recall that some may be taken from the top. Also, they re-packed the channels to put DTV in contiguous lower UHF channels. As for VHF, it isn't being used for DTV and was going to be re-purposed after the transition. I need to verify that's still the plan. Oh yeah, Japan can also use SFN, natively.

Also both Japan and Germany are about the size of Montana. So sure they don't as much spectrum for TV. They also don't have as many networks as the US as far as I know.
post #174 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post

Also both Japan and Germany are about the size of Montana. So sure they don't as much spectrum for TV. They also don't have as many networks as the US as far as I know.

I think this is more applicable to Germany vs. Japan. Despite its size, Japan has about as many TV transmitters as we do, with thousands of translators, due to mountainous terrain. A main DTV station might have 25-30 translators/SFN's, both analog and digital. Here is an example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainich...casting_System

However, as far as the depth and variety of local content, however, I don't think anyone else comes close to the US. This variety comes at a spectrum cost, however and makes SFN's more limited in potential scope.
post #175 of 2851
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...ntory_Bill.php

Rep. Rick Boucher (D-Va.), chairman of the Communications & Internet Subcommittee said again Wednesday that he did not support the FCC forcing broadcasters off their band, and thought the inventory needed to come before any spectrum clearing plan.
post #176 of 2851
With mobile DTV coming out, this columnist doesn't believe that broadcasters will voluntarily give up any spectrum.

http://www.tvnewscheck.com/articles/...aily.2/?page=1

As the proposed fees and bandwidth reclaimation plan indicate, the current FCC is pretending to be with it, while effectively living in the 1990s.
post #177 of 2851
Quote:

Quote:


Underlying the venture is a clear message from the TV groups to the FCC: We don't want to give up any of our spectrum. In fact, we are likely to seek left-over spectrum from other broadcasters so that we can increase the number of channels and markets where we can offer service.

This seems along the lines of a thought I had. New, dedicated, MDTV channel allotments, which can then be spread by way of DTS, much like the way FloTV works. However, will MDTV DTS work as well as COFDM SFN's?

This would be more cost effective, instead of every broadcaster trying to set up its own MDTV DTS service.
post #178 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

Are these fees still based on the old analog channel? I remember reading that but don't know if it was for '09 or '10.

According to this article, it is based on the digital RF channel, not the old analog channel or virtual channel.

FCC Retains Higher Fees for VHF TV Stations in Regulatory Fee NPRM

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/99442

Quote:


As an example, in markets 11 to 25, a VHF station would pay $60,531, while a UHF station would pay only $24,843

So, let me get this straight...

The FCC is charging a premium for a physical VHF channel, as if we were still in the analog world!

So, stations will have an extra incentive to move to UHF, which would seem to contradict the FCC's plan.

If the FCC really wanted to dupe more stations to move to VHF, they should make licenses there dirt cheap. ...not that I would want such a plan to succeed, since I despise having to use VHF for DTV at all.
post #179 of 2851
Debating the FCC's Broadband Plan

http://www.nabshowdaily.com/TuesdayEdition/98918

Quote:


Bellaria was formerly an executive with Charter Communications. He emphasized that the FCC did not intend to wrench spectrum from broadcasters who did not want to participate. Dave Donovan, president of MSTV said his members are likely to decline. Most of the board folks here aren't interested in the voluntary mechanism, he said.

Most will choose not to participate, Bellaria said, but the FCC nonetheless believes that enough will do so to clear 120 MHz. When he reiterated the position at one point, a wave of grumbles went through the room.

Bellaria addressed them. Look, when you got married, did you start planning for it not to work? he queried. Well, we're still in the honeymoon period.

Paul Karpowicz, president of Meredith's local media group was on the panel. Half of all marriages end in divorce, he parried.

One key point that emerged spectrum designated for nationwide broadband will not have to be contiguous across the country, but it likely would be in high-population corridors such as the East Coast.

The last paragraph seems to indicate that the "voluntary" 120MHz grab would be a patchwork system and not a straight swipe of 31-51 everywhere. If that's the case, can 2-6 count towards the 120?
post #180 of 2851
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

Debating the FCC's Broadband Plan

http://www.nabshowdaily.com/TuesdayEdition/98918



The last paragraph seems to indicate that the "voluntary" 120MHz grab would be a patchwork system and not a straight swipe of 31-51 everywhere. If that's the case, can 2-6 count towards the 120?

Well from what I read before they do plan and taking 46-51 away. Then try to get the rest "voluntarily"
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