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post #1951 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by nycdigital09 View Post

isn't there enough wireless devices among us allready, their outta be a governing body trying to restrict their numbers. you know that there are more than 5 wireless devices being used per person in this country. like most sane person I use only 2, a cell phone, wireless internet. there has to be something more to the story than just more broadband space needed. fcc should have someone lookin over their shoulders.

Personal cell with broadband. Work issued cell (voice and unused text messaging). Work issued pager. Two way radio while at work. That is the maximum I'll have on my belt at any time. To get to five I'd have to count the wi-fi laptop I occasionally use at work (or the wireless mouse on the wired PC).

At home I have more wi-fi devices in play. Plus cordless phones that don't get much use. I also have a remote start on my car. My wife has nothing except the remote start on her car.

Getting to "more than 5 wireless devices per person" would have to drop the "being used" part. I know a lot of people with zero wireless device use. There would have to be a lot of people with 10 or more devices in use to have "more than 5 wireless devices being used per person".
post #1952 of 2851
Somehow, I look at the majority of "apps" and FB games as just another way to encourage waste of spectrum. It's like encouraging people to leave their water running all day, or their lights all on when they are not at home.
Maybe we should all keep our cars running while we're at work. That would allow gas companies to make their sales pitch.
post #1953 of 2851
I have no cell phone and use the AVSForum app on my WiFi only IPad and have a new WiFi Samsung smart TV with YouTube app and Rovi app for OTA guide. Would love if AVSForum would come out with an app for the TV.
post #1954 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by nycdigital09 View Post
isn't there enough wireless devices among us allready, their outta be a governing body trying to restrict their numbers. you know that there are more than 5 wireless devices being used per person in this country. like most sane person I use only 2, a cell phone, wireless internet. there has to be something more to the story than just more broadband space needed. fcc should have someone lookin over their shoulders.
The FCC wants everybody downloading movies on their cell phones while they are driving down the road.

Greed is their driving force. They want to end free OTA TV so they can can use the spectrum to charge huge fees for the video people download on their cell phones. Which you can already do with cable and DSL. Then TV would be completely wired and not wireless like its been for the last 70 years. Its all about greed.
post #1955 of 2851
Quote:
The Coalition for Free TV and Broadband says it is not at all happy about the language in S.911, the Public Safety Spectrum and Wireless Innovation Act, the bill that just made it through the Senate Commerce Committee. The Coalition says it includes full and low power television operators, but its main concern at the moment is the protection of low-power community broadcast stations.

The Coalition applauded the attempt of Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO) to include language via amendment that would write protections for LPTV into the bill, which could lead to voluntary incentive auctions in the television band, spectrum repacking and potentially, the loss of LPTV stations.

Unfortunately for the Coalition, it also had to lament McCaskill’s withdrawal of the amendment at the request of sponsor and committee chair Jay Rockefeller (D-WV)...

...The Coalition plans to lobby Capitol Hill to make its views known. They include:

* We believe that the Federal Government should not take spectrum away from free television broadcasters and give it to a few wireless monopolies.

* We believe that if the spectrum is lost, hundreds of television stations that provide free, local, minority, and faith-based programs could go off the air.

* We believe that if the spectrum is auctioned, all Class A, LPTV stations, and translators must be included.

* We believe that television broadcasters have solutions that will allow them to provide free or low cost wireless internet to their communities.

* We believe, if allowed to fully utilize their bandwidth, television broadcasters will provide a necessary alternative to traditional wireless internet providers. This competition will be good for the consumer.

Read More: http://www.rbr.com/tv-cable/lptvs-ta...ctrum-act.html

Sign Up: http://coalitionforfreetvandbroadband.org/
post #1956 of 2851
Reading between the lines, the last three items can have another meaning:

* We believe that if the spectrum is auctioned, all Class A, LPTV stations, and translators must be included.

Does this mean that they want to be included in the group that gets to "sell out", and make some quick cash?


* We believe that television broadcasters have solutions that will allow them to provide free or low cost wireless internet to their communities.

Do they feel that broadcasters should concentrate on providing internet services, to the detriment of their broadcast television service?

* We believe, if allowed to fully utilize their bandwidth, television broadcasters will provide a necessary alternative to traditional wireless internet providers. This competition will be good for the consumer.

Same as above. I've heard comments from LPTV people, that they would like to convert much of their spectrum to internet services. Shouldn't they, instead, be trying to get grants to establish such things as subsidized rural broadband, utilizing spectrum that is not already being used for TV? That would keep a free TV service in their communities, as well as provide broadband. Or, is the BB service thing too lucrative, compared to TV?
post #1957 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenglish View Post

Reading between the lines, the last three items can have another meaning:

Same as above. I've heard comments from LPTV people, that they would like to convert much of their spectrum to internet services. Shouldn't they, instead, be trying to get grants to establish such things as subsidized rural broadband, utilizing spectrum that is not already being used for TV? That would keep a free TV service in their communities, as well as provide broadband. Or, is the BB service thing too lucrative, compared to TV?

I guess I was just naive but I thought some portion of channels 52 - 69 were supposed to be used to provide rural wireless internet service. I'm still waiting.

Chuck
post #1958 of 2851
Antennas Direct Disputes CEA Survey Overlooking the Millions Embracing Digital TV

http://eon.businesswire.com/news/eon...n/Cord-Cutting
post #1959 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by klandry7 View Post

Antennas Direct Disputes CEA Survey Overlooking the Millions Embracing Digital TV

http://eon.businesswire.com/news/eon...n/Cord-Cutting

The above-linked press release is hosted by a service called Enhanced Online News. While I take this "news item" with a grain of salt, I am personaly involved in a non-AVS legal matter that I cannot get any newspaper to touch with a ten foot pole because law firms are now the largest advertisers on nternet newspapers in my home state, so if the contents of something hosted by EON are readily "Googleable", then I may wind up using them myself.

Here is EON's own description of its services:

Quote:
At EON: Enhanced Online News, we show you how to make your online press release thrive. Our easy-to-use tools help communicators of all levels to:

Turn a basic press release into an interactive web page to be found, seen and shared online.

Build an online press release that will be indexed and served up in search engine results pages by major search engines like Google, Yahoo! and Bing.

Increase online visibility with reporters, journalists, customers and prospects.
post #1960 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

I guess I was just naive but I thought some portion of channels 52 - 69 were supposed to be used to provide rural wireless internet service. I'm still waiting.

Chuck

I agree with you and the fact that the government has not demonstrated that 52-69 are even being utilized to their capacity, let alone the need to take away more frequencies. It seems like this spectrum crunch is just a big racket which has been organized by all the special interest groups.

In the past, I have written to my senators, and congresswoman about my concern. However, it seems my comments have fell on deaf ears with either no replies or lame responses which demonstrate no understanding of my concern for retaining what we have left of the TV broadcast spectrum.

I am hoping for the best while realizing that it's going to take much more. Right now, it seems the local broadcasters are continuing to remain very low key about this whole issue while relying on the NAB to voice their concerns in Washington. I would like to see them become more active and educate the general public--most of whom know nothing about this important issue.
post #1961 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by klandry7 View Post

Antennas Direct Disputes CEA Survey Overlooking the Millions Embracing Digital TV

Thanks for the link.

Sure would be nice if there was an unbiased ongoing census of OTA viewership, indicating homes that are solely OTA and ones that supplement a subscription service with OTA. Second critical question is how large is the OTA market and is it growing or shrinking? The second is the more important issue: is OTA an emerging or dying market?


To Summarize:
CEA - 8%
AD - 15%
post #1962 of 2851
The survey quoted by Antennas Direct was done by Knowledge Networks:

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...the_Air_TV.php

http://www.knowledgenetworks.com/

Here are some facts:

Antennas Direct sold close to 500,000 ($8.7 million worth) of antennas last year, and are planning on selling 1,000,000 this year.

Mohu, who just started selling their indoor antennas in March, recently expanded in order to be able to produce 50,000 antennas a month. Does that sound like OTA viewership is going up or down?
post #1963 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkreichen1968 View Post

Does that sound like OTA viewership is going up or down?

That is the part that fascinates me. A big bump in antenna sales prior to the DTV transition was to be expected. Marketing hype aside, there is no such thing as a DTV antenna, but a lot of hard core OTA folks like myself probably took the opportunity to review their setup and modify as necessary.

What I find surprising, is the momentum toward OTA does not seem to be abating. While the current number of "cord cutters" is quite small the key question is whether or not it is a blip, due to economic conditions, or a ground swell change in TV distribution?

The Internet and OTA are powerful competitors to subscription services. Which is of course why the incumbents appear to be trying hard to kill it off.
post #1964 of 2851
OTA gets bigger as more people get clued in. The NAB needs to advertise OTA, with the antenna maker's logos featured prominently. They need to let the public know that there is an alternative to a monthly utility bill for television. As word spreads, OTA grows.
All of us in the antenna world should act as facilitators, liberating our friends and family by building them antennas, helping them with equipment purchases, and imparting our considerable collective wisdom. A great way to pique their interest is to run the TVFool for their house, print it, and show it to them.
post #1965 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by LithOTA View Post

OTA gets bigger as more people get clued in. The NAB needs to advertise OTA, with the antenna maker's logos featured prominently. They need to let the public know that there is an alternative to a monthly utility bill for television. As word spreads, OTA grows.
All of us in the antenna world should act as facilitators, liberating our friends and family by building them antennas, helping them with equipment purchases, and imparting our considerable collective wisdom. A great way to pique their interest is to run the TVFool for their house, print it, and show it to them.

Well said. I couldn't agree with you more
post #1966 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by LithOTA View Post

All of us in the antenna world should act as facilitators, liberating our friends and family by building them antennas, helping them with equipment purchases, and imparting our considerable collective wisdom. A great way to pique their interest is to run the TVFool for their house, print it, and show it to them.

I have done this for my mom and two of my sisters. The 4 houses we live in all of them are OTA and Netflix only. I have saved $2,600 in cable fees since I cut the cord in 2008. So I figure thats $10,400 that me and my family members have saved.
post #1967 of 2851
I gave OTA a push today. I got a summons for Jury Duty in the mail. It had a survey that they wanted me to fill in and send back. They asked what were my hobbies. I said one of them was watching digital over the air channels in HD. They asked what was my main source of news and I answered from my local channels over the air.
post #1968 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by LithOTA View Post

OTA gets bigger as more people get clued in. The NAB needs to advertise OTA, with the antenna maker's logos featured prominently.

Agree, but I think they need to be more aggressive: Marketing – Education – Installation!

1) Marketing - is of course the first step. As has been oft cited in this forum much of the population is unaware OTA is an option to subscription based services.

2) Technical Education - Once someone knows OTA is a possibility it can be daunting figuring out what equipment to use and in many cases physically installing an attic or roof top system. As I've posted before it took me about 6-months to get my head around all the pieces, but then I may be a slow learner. This was during the DTV transition so situation is somewhat simpler today.

The most valuable resources for me have been: HDprimer by Ken Nist, TVfool by Andy Lee, Rabbitears by Trip, plus the various antenna vendor sites. In their present state this probably presents too much technical information to soon so first contact can be somewhat intimidating. On the other hand the CEA Antennaweb site goes too far in opposite direction so has limited utility. The customer experience needs a more graduated basic-to-advanced orientation.

3) Installation providers - The NAB needs to certify qualified antenna installers and make it easy for folks to find an installer if they do not want to do the work themselves. Selecting OTA should be as easy selecting Cable and Satellite. Ideally they should finance the installation allowing customer to spread cost over a reasonable period of time, just like their competitors.

The folks that post here probably don't represent the typical TV viewer. For a variety of reasons we are drawn to this topic and are willing to invest the time and effort to learn and share what we have discovered with others.

For most people they just want TV to work. It is a utility like any other.

Perhaps the near death experience due to the proposed FCC channel reallocation will cause the NAB to be more proactive. One can only hope.

I'll get off my soapbox now.
post #1969 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by LithOTA View Post

OTA gets bigger as more people get clued in. The NAB needs to advertise OTA, with the antenna maker's logos featured prominently. They need to let the public know that there is an alternative to a monthly utility bill for television. As word spreads, OTA grows.
All of us in the antenna world should act as facilitators, liberating our friends and family by building them antennas, helping them with equipment purchases, and imparting our considerable collective wisdom. A great way to pique their interest is to run the TVFool for their house, print it, and show it to them.

There are cable/satellite subscribers who willingly pay the extra money each month for the extra channels and program options that they get. Those folks won't go to OTA no matter how much marketing and promotion is done for the OTA option.

However, there are other cable/satellite subscribers who hold various mistaken notions such as HD only being available on cable or satellite, all TV broadcasting was shut down in 2009, or just not being aware that there's more available on digital OTA than was the case in the old analog days. These folks are the targets who could effectively be reached by a campaign. And while I don't know how many of these people are out there, even if it is only 10% of all households, that's a lot of potential lost revenue for the cable/satellite businesses. It's a thought that probably scares the heck out of a lot of folks in those industries...
post #1970 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Desmond View Post

However, there are other cable/satellite subscribers who hold various mistaken notions ... These folks are the targets who could effectively be reached by a campaign. And while I don't know how many of these people are out there, even if it is only 10% of all households,

Agree that many folks do not realize there is an alternative to subscription services. No matter how successful OTA becomes it will likely remain in the minority. The big question is; how large is the potential market? My son lives in an apartment with Cable Internet and TV and has no incentive to go through the hassle of OTA. My wife and I on the other hand have no interest in either Cable or Sat, DSL is fast enough and OTA meets our needs.

If you believe Antennas Direct OTA penetration it is already at 15%. Since the OTA antenna market seems to be growing rapidly it will be interesting to see what the ultimate OTA saturation number will be.

A wild card in the equation is Internet distribution. If content owners decide to make more programming available over the Internet it undercuts both paid subscription model and to a lesser extent OTA.
post #1971 of 2851
And note that there are variables in the size of the OTA market. Raise the price of cable/satellite service higher, and the number of viewers who will decide that the cost/value proposition favors OTA will increase. Similarly, if more services are available OTA, the ultimate penetration rate for OTA-only viewership might increase. Conversely, proposals on the table to shrink the broadcast TV band would reduce the amount of OTA services available, and would probably lower the ultimate OTA-only viewership rate.

Another complication is the availability of a la carte purchasing of cable/satellite networks. In the C-band satellite days, I watched OTA television supplemented with a handful of selected cable networks that I could buy individually. If that option were viable today, I would return to being a hybrid OTA/satellite household. Depending on how many other people feel as I do, a la carte could potentially increase the number of viewers who watch their local stations OTA while reducing the number of OTA-only households even further.

Because of all those factors, it's pretty hard to guess what the ultimate penetration for OTA-only viewing might be. For that matter, there doesn't seem to be a lot of firm numbers for the percentage of hybrid households (some TVs OTA-only, with others in the same home connected to cable or satellite).

But my suspicion is that if digital OTA TV isn't derailed by the FCC's misguided spectrum plan, we will see at least a moderate uptake in OTA viewing.
post #1972 of 2851
A la carte for cable channels will never happen. Specialty networks like Food, Golf, AMC, HGTV, Travel, & Bravo could not survive without being sudsidized by ESPN, Discovery, TNT, CNN, etc. It's too bad, it would be great to be able to order the channels you want for a buck or two each per month.
post #1973 of 2851
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LithOTA View Post

A la carte for cable channels will never happen. Specialty networks like Food, Golf, AMC, HGTV, Travel, & Bravo could not survive without being sudsidized by ESPN, Discovery, TNT, CNN, etc. It's too bad, it would be great to be able to order the channels you want for a buck or two each per month.

When I complain about my cable company not having NFL Network I've been told by people that NFL Network needs stand on it's own and it's unfair for non-football fans to subsidize that channel. Why should the rules be different for the others? If FoodNetwork can't stand on it's own maybe it shouldn't exist?
post #1974 of 2851
Since OTA went digital channels like RTV, This TV, MeTV, and Antenna TV have appeared. So OTA needs to be able to continue to grow. If cable channels were sold ala carte 70% of them would go out of business because nobody would want them. The ones left would add more variety and have less repeats so they can survive.
post #1975 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post

When I complain about my cable company not having NFL Network I've been told by people that NFL Network needs stand on it's own and it's unfair for non-football fans to subsidize that channel. Why should the rules be different for the others? If FoodNetwork can't stand on it's own maybe it shouldn't exist?

NFL network is different. The NFL gets paid 4 billion dollars by the networks even if they don't play any actual games. How greedy is that?
post #1976 of 2851
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LithOTA View Post

NFL network is different.

No they aren't. Same rules should apply to all.

Quote:
The NFL gets paid 4 billion dollars by the networks even if they don't play any actual games.

Actually no they don't. The judge ruled against the NFL 2 months ago on that issue.

Quote:
How greedy is that?


Jealous much?
post #1977 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post


No they aren't. Same rules should apply to all.

Actually no they don't. The judge ruled against the NFL 2 months ago on that issue.

Jealous much?

Not really, but I do think it's a bit strange that any enterprise should make more profit by ceasing to produce the product. Kind of like farmers who get paid more to let their fields go fallow than they would for actually planting and harvesting the crops. I'm glad the court ruled that way.
Certainly, the same rules SHOULD apply, but we all know that they don't, especially with the NFL. Remember, they managed to get themselves exempted from the Sherman Antitrust Act, which means they ARE different- essentially, their monopoly is protected.
post #1978 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by LithOTA View Post

A la carte for cable channels will never happen. Specialty networks like Food, Golf, AMC, HGTV, Travel, & Bravo could not survive without being sudsidized by ESPN, Discovery, TNT, CNN, etc. It's too bad, it would be great to be able to order the channels you want for a buck or two each per month.

HGTV and Food are very popular with the 51% of the population that aren't male. And, AMC, Golf, Travel & Bravo have their audiences. They would survive A la carte. Would they lose subscribers? Yes, but they could get more money per subscriber. A la carte would kill off flute music and basket weaving channels, but ultimately the surviving channels would have to have better content that people actually wanted to watch.
post #1979 of 2851
http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/2...swers-from-fcc

In his letter, Dingell asks a series of questions, giving the FCC until June 27 to reply:

Assuming no stations will be required to move into the low VHF band and no surviving TV stations will lose coverage, what are the general implications of reclaiming 120 MHz for the auction?
How many TV stations would have to share a channel or go off the air? (The recover spectrum, the FCC is encouraging stations to either give up their channels or share channels with other stations.)
How many stations in the Northeast, the Great Lakes region and San Francisco/Los Angeles will have to share or go off the air?
How many stations would have to be moved to a new channel?
What are the answers to above question, assuming the FCC reclaims just 90 MHz? 60 MHz? 30MHz?
For each of the reclamation scenarios, how many TV viewers will lose service and how many channels with they lose?
post #1980 of 2851
Telecommunications: In High Definition

From The Article:
Quote:


Few people get their TV signals over the air anymore according to one recent estimate, only about 15 percent of viewers watch their shows the old-fashioned way but broadcasters still enjoy substantial bipartisan support on Capitol Hill. Television stations are still major local economic forces in every congressional district, and TV advertising is still an essential ingredient in every political campaign.

Those factors combine to make the industry's trade group, the National Association of Broadcasters, a powerful lobbying force in Washington and on Capitol Hill especially. And NAB's clout appears to have been enhanced by its current leader, Gordon Smith, a leading Republican centrist who represented Oregon in the Senate for a dozen years (and rose to a senior seat on the Commerce Committee) before being defeated in 2008. Since joining NAB the next year, he has traded easily on his long-standing relationships with plenty of influential Republicans and Democrats in both the House and the Senate starting with the three of his cousins who are senators, Democrats Tom Udall of New Mexico and Mark Udall of Colorado, and Republican Mike Lee of Utah.

Aides say Smith's influence has helped the broadcasters successfully tamp down any thought of requiring the television stations to give back their spectrum licenses. So, too, has the Republican takeover of the House. While an incentive-auction plan has stirred some interest in the Senate, in the House the GOP majority of the House Energy and Commerce Committee began focusing on the issue publicly only in April. That slower pace has afforded broadcasters time to shore up support for their position and make doubly sure any spectrum legislation contains language that will protect their interests...

...Smith argues that broadcast programming is still popular, and television stations are still important community resources ones that have proven to be more resilient than wireless networks after natural disasters such as hurricanes and tornadoes.

The broadcasters say that their one to many model of transmitting information to viewers is at least as deserving of spectrum space as the wireless companies' one to one model of transmitting videos and data to individual users. Smith also doesn't hesitate to point out that the shows broadcast over the air are generally more wholesome than the standard fare on the Internet.

If you apply decency standards to wireless broadband, you'll collapse their business model, Smith said. We're not in the indecency business. On broadcast news, you'll only find clothed pictures of congressmen.

And broadcasters never miss a chance to remind lawmakers that they turned over a big chunk of their share of the airwaves only two years ago, because of the congressionally mandated switch from analog to digital broadcasting. The TV industry argues that no station should be forced to give up its license, and that stations choosing to do so should be allowed to set the minimum asking price in a subsequent auction.

The broadcasters are especially worried about how remaining television stations will be treated in a repacking of the spectrum that would inevitably be necessary to open bigger slices of spectrum for auction. They say the stations that choose to hang on to their spectrum licenses shouldn't be moved into technologically less desirable frequencies...

...Smith's former colleague in the Oregon congressional delegation, Greg Walden, has become chairman this year of the House Energy and Commerce Subcommittee on Communications. A rising star in the Republican caucus he's likely to chair the House campaign operation for 2014 who began his career as a radio broadcaster and went on to own five radio stations, Walden is perhaps NAB's most important single congressional ally. (He and Smith served in the state legislature together before serving together in Congress, and Smith still has a home in Walden's congressional district.)

Wireless is not the sole venue for innovation, Walden said at a hearing three weeks ago. Over-the-air broadcasting remains a vital and important part of the communications infrastructure.

There is still more than a year to go before this Congress is over, but for now the odds seem solid that the broadcasters will get what they want and that's in large measure because the incentive-auction proposal will only move as part of a larger telecommunications bill, and that bill won't get done unless the standoff is broken over the public safety spectrum. So if Walden keeps resisting the Senate's entreaties on that score, his recalcitrance will have the added benefit of helping the broadcasters.

Although Senate Commerce Chairman Jay Rockefeller wants to get his bill on the floor before the 10th anniversary of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, broadcasters want language added that would insulate them in the big spectrum shuffle that would ensue. For example, NAB wants lawmakers to sunset the incentive-auction authority that the legislation would grant to the FCC.

Between NAB's own clout and the Republicans' control of the House, it's a safe bet that no spectrum bill that's not to the broadcasters' liking will be enacted any time soon.

Read More: Telecommunications: In High Definition : Roll Call Special Features Outlook

The one thing I'd like to point out is the real losers if the spectrum grab goes through are viewers/consumers. Who represents us? Also, there is nothing "old fashioned" about free HDTV, other than the fact that this newly available technology is about 15 years old in theory. In fact and practice it is only a few years old, and hasn't even got out of the starting gate yet.
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