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AVS Official Topic - The FCC & Broadcast Spectrum - Page 79

post #2341 of 2851
9/4/11 at 2:03pm
Ten years ago, on 9-11, how many people were getting their internet wirelessly, as opposed to via Cable TV, Telco, etc?

The wireless services that were on the World Trade Center crashed...just like the buildings. That would be a huge catastrophe nowadays, as evidenced by the lack of wireless services in the Netherlands a few weeks ago . Did anyone see the uncensored video from there, where the guy started cursing at his cell phone when the antenna started falling? Not only broadcast, but most types of wireless services, were on those towers.
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post #2342 of 2851
9/4/11 at 2:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi Master View Post
And one day we will have a USS Enterprise NCC-1701-D so we can go visit the Klingons. Sure it won't happen today, maybe not in a few years from now, but it eventually will happen.
At the rate that we are "bailing" on the Space Program, as well as science education in general, I wouldn't bet on it.

Any commercial space exploration is going to come with a huge price tag attached. Moon rocks will be worth their weight in Kryptonite.
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post #2343 of 2851
9/4/11 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
If you don't think people are that dumb, you haven't done computer repair or tech support like I have. Or lived with someone like my father who calls me downstairs (if I'm home) or on the phone (if I'm not home) the moment something changes in even the slightest on the computer. He knows how to click on his pre-defined bookmarks and if he's feeling adventurous, type an address he saw somewhere into the address bar. Anything beyond that, not a chance. And there are a lot of people like that, who know the absolute bare minimum that they need to and nothing more.
If they can figure out how to use bit torrent, they can figure out how to evade a DNS filter. All it would require is a simple google search, which would result in a "download this app to get around the dns filter" type of a deal.

The worst thing they could do to block that would be to filter UDP port 53 outside of the ISP's routers, but simple tunneling would get around that problem. There's ultimately nothing they can do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
They require line sharing and often have government subsidies to help pay for or regulations to require service in other countries. I hold out no hope that will become true in the US any time soon.
I don't, every time the government starts putting its hands into subsidies we end up with worse problems than what they intended to fix. Look at corn subsidies for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post
It doesn't link to primary sources, but IMO 22 minutes of games per day isn't a threat to an average 35 hours of TV a week.

ETA: and presumably, this is 22 minutes among those having such devices. I'm not one of them.
In any case, viewership is dropping.
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post #2344 of 2851
9/4/11 at 2:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf View Post
I don't, every time the government starts putting its hands into subsidies we end up with worse problems than what they intended to fix. Look at corn subsidies for example.
No disagreement, but I want local utilities to own the lines outright.

Also, I was thinking more about hope about mandated line sharing.

- Trip
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post #2345 of 2851
9/4/11 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
No disagreement, but I want local utilities to own the lines outright.

Also, I was thinking more about hope about mandated line sharing.

- Trip
If they could somehow share the burden of investment that was required to establish the lines to begin with, I would agree with that.
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post #2346 of 2851
9/4/11 at 3:09pm
Alphawolf - I second Trip's observations about the computer / network abilities of Joe SixPack - You wouldn't believe the number of calls I take for a major transportation company's employees on simple things like "how do I Login" - "the company's HR portal
won't work with my browser - what do I do" , etc.

And some of these calls are from you "young whippersnappers" - your peers from high school / young adulthood. If the "Internet" isn't working absolutely perfectly - they are clueless. And you think we need to dismantle OTA TV and license this spectrum to the wireless companies ?

As far as those home NAT devices - I have a distinct distrust of their DNS proxy services - so much that all PCs in my house have outside DNS servers manually entered even if they are DHCP for getting their IP addresses.
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post #2347 of 2851
9/4/11 at 5:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf View Post

...In any case, viewership is dropping.

Even that's not clear. Reporting a portion of what's being watched does not equate to total viewership. The claim was OTA viewership was down this summer, but the data was for only the top 5 shows, and selected networks. Nothing about total viewership. We could be watching as much OTA, just more variety than the top 5 shows. We could be watching networks who didn't pay for the data. We don't know if fewer people are watching OTA, and even if we had total viewership, it's too soon to call it a trend. .

Outside of summer, the popular OTA series like AI, didn't they break records last season, ~24 million viewers? I don't pay attention to numbers, as I don't watch myself.

Nielsen's annual report will be out in the next month or so, for OTA viewing, it had been trending up slightly. If more people watch OTA only, that will affect OTA viewing to some extent. With OTA, we know what's on, no need to surf, so we rarely watch an unplanned show. Our DVD hours went up, as we now watch a couple cable shows on DVD. Combined viewing time is down, we watch fewer reruns, and no cable news. A good thing, we think.
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post #2348 of 2851
9/4/11 at 7:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf View Post


[i][b]OTA viewership is on the rise and has been for the last couple of years.[b][i]

that's funny, because I hear otherwise

http://newsofthemedia.com/2011/05/ma...rship-decline/

Where does it say that ota viewership is down in the article?

From everything I've heard tv antenna sales are booming. Big box stores that stopped carrying outdoor antennas years ago are once again stocking them on their shelf's. Consumers are dumping their pay tv subscriptions for alternative choices such as free digital tv, Netflix, etc.

OTA is on the rise rather you want to admit it or not.
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post #2349 of 2851
9/5/11 at 7:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tschmidt View Post

...

The Internet is an open fault tolerant communication systems except for the first-mile. There the choice of providers is extremely limited, making a mockery of voting-with-your-wallet.

...

Check your providers here:

http://www.broadbandmap.gov/number-of-providers

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=7323

SHF
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post #2350 of 2851
9/5/11 at 8:56am
The one thing that comes through loud and clear in the last few pages of this discussion is that you don't want to put all your information source eggs in any one basket, internet or otherwise. If that happens, then some situation will arise to cut off that one source. You want to have AM/FM radio, broadcast TV, internet, and cell phone systems as independent systems providing information. Government regulations should encourage competition between these different sources, not try to legislate one or more out of existence because someone who is temporarily running the show happens to favor one over the others.

Chuck
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post #2351 of 2851
9/5/11 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

The one thing that comes through loud and clear in the last few pages of this discussion is that you don't want to put all your information source eggs in any one basket, internet or otherwise. If that happens, then some situation will arise to cut off that one source. You want to have AM/FM radio, broadcast TV, internet, and cell phone systems as independent systems providing information. Government regulations should encourage competition between these different sources, not try to legislate one or more out of existence because someone who is temporarily running the show happens to favor one over the others.

Chuck

Exactly. In emergency situations, redundancy is good. And this matter is too important for legislators to bow to political pressures from special interest groups who are in a turf war or (worse) trying to eliminate their competition.
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post #2352 of 2851
9/5/11 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calaveras View Post

The one thing that comes through loud and clear in the last few pages of this discussion is that you don't want to put all your information source eggs in any one basket, internet or otherwise. If that happens, then some situation will arise to cut off that one source. You want to have AM/FM radio, broadcast TV, internet, and cell phone systems as independent systems providing information. Government regulations should encourage competition between these different sources, not try to legislate one or more out of existence because someone who is temporarily running the show happens to favor one over the others.

Chuck

Perfectly said!
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post #2353 of 2851
9/5/11 at 5:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post

Check your providers here:

Actually we are pretty well served for a semirural area.
There are two residential/commercial wireline Internet providers in my town.

Comcast Docsis and Fairpoint DSL.

There is a third Commercial DSL provider G4 Communication in Manchester that collocates in many of the area's Central offices.

I'm lucky that we live about 12,000 feet from the CO so have access to DSL. Not all residences in town are within the 18,000 foot DSL limit. Comcast runs down our street but we are 600 feet off the road making installation cost is prohibitive.
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post #2354 of 2851
9/6/11 at 7:08am
AlphaWolf seems to mention stuff, like evading filters and using bit to rent, a lot.
Should we all just ignore the rules on everything...since it's "The Internet"?

That can get you fired, or get your wireless turned off pretty quickly. Not to mention fines in many places.
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post #2355 of 2851
9/7/11 at 6:57am
"Firefighters balk at new digital radios, as failures risk lives":

"Many of the nation's biggest fire departments, spooked by allegations that Motorola's digital radio failures contributed to the deaths of at least five firefighters, the disabling of a sixth and scores of close calls, have limited use of the glitzy gadgets acquired in a post-Sept. 11 emergency-communications spending splurge."


http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/09/0...w-digital.html
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post #2356 of 2851
9/7/11 at 7:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim58hsv View Post

Where does it say that ota viewership is down in the article?

From everything I've heard tv antenna sales are booming. Big box stores that stopped carrying outdoor antennas years ago are once again stocking them on their shelf's. Consumers are dumping their pay tv subscriptions for alternative choices such as free digital tv, Netflix, etc.

OTA is on the rise rather you want to admit it or not.

In the second quarter of the year the top 8 public pay-TV companies lost 193,000 subscribers. If you estimate that Cox (a private company) lost 1% (what other legacy cable companies lost) then the number is around 250,000. One analyst from SNL Kagen estimated that Pay TV in general, including the smaller carriers lost up to 500,000 subscribers. Assuming that not all of those people are Netflix only (some people don't realize antennas still work), OTA only (for local channels) is going up.
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post #2357 of 2851
9/7/11 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenglish View Post
"Firefighters balk at new digital radios, as failures risk lives":

"Many of the nation's biggest fire departments, spooked by allegations that Motorola's digital radio failures contributed to the deaths of at least five firefighters, the disabling of a sixth and scores of close calls, have limited use of the glitzy gadgets acquired in a post-Sept. 11 emergency-communications spending splurge."


http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/09/0...w-digital.html
You can spot the pioneers (firefighters in this case) by the arrows in their backs. What is needed is limited testing of various types of digital radios (and maybe improved analog models) by Motorola and others in various test venues across the country to see what works and what doesn't. Only then can designs be perfected before we implement anything across the board. Instead, there seems to be a push to throw massive amounts of money and spectrum at unproven technologies so that Congress can feel good and say they did something. But the end results are massive waste of resources and little if any improvement. Banking regulation isn't the only area where our government is dysfunctional.
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post #2358 of 2851
9/7/11 at 4:27pm
Reposted from Hot Off the Press. As I said in that thread, what a revoltin' development this is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dad1153 View Post

Technology Notes
New $500 'TiVo Premiere Elite' Records Four TV Shows at Once
By Doug Aamoth, TIME - September 7th, 2011



Yama-hama, that's a whole lotta TiVo. The company that put digital video recording on the map has just released a monster in the TiVo Premiere Elite, a $500 set-top box that can record four different shows at once and stores up to 300 hours of high-definition video. If you're of a more nerdacious persuasion, that's four digital tuners and a two-terabyte hard drive.

Other accoutrements (you recognize that word if you're considering dropping $500 on this thing) include online access to Netflix, Pandora, Hulu Plus, Amazon Instant Video, Blockbuster and YouTube content along with THX certification and the ability to stream content from your computer.

As mentioned, the box will set you back a cool $500you'll also need to pony up $20 per month for TiVo service, or you can drop another $500 on lifetime service if you're well-heeled enough to do so. A digital cable subscription is a requirement as well: TiVo's press release stresses, "The TiVo Premiere Elite is intended for use with digital cable systems only and does not work with analog cable or over-the-air antennas."

There's still no built-in Wi-Fi connection, either. You'll have to go with an Ethernet cable or pony up for a compatible USB wireless add-on. TiVo sells a high-speed one for $90 and a regular-speed one for $60. Owie.

As for a launch date, we've got this to work with: "Pending FCC approval of TiVo's request to waive a requirement to include analog tuners, The TiVo Premiere Elite will be available by the end of the year..." Ah, those quick, nimble and efficient government agenciesthose are the ones you want to depend on for your timely product launch.

http://techland.time.com/2011/09/07/...shows-at-once/
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post #2359 of 2851
9/7/11 at 4:53pm
Could be a QAM-only tuner, like the one in the HDHomeRun Prime.

- Trip
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post #2360 of 2851
9/8/11 at 12:23am
Wouldn't surprise me if they are using the exact same MaxLinear QAM-only tuner-demod combo chip used in the HDHomeRun PRIME, Ceton, and Hauppauge CableCARD tuners. Nothing else on the market can touch it.
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post #2361 of 2851
9/8/11 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Could be a QAM-only tuner, like the one in the HDHomeRun Prime.

- Trip

Quote:
Originally Posted by coyoteaz View Post

Wouldn't surprise me if they are using the exact same MaxLinear QAM-only tuner-demod combo chip used in the HDHomeRun PRIME, Ceton, and Hauppauge CableCARD tuners. Nothing else on the market can touch it.

According to the FCC Daily Digest, permission was granted as of yesterday...
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post #2362 of 2851
9/11/11 at 7:29am
The TV show Ideas in Action does an episode on the spectrum grab. The show has Steve Largent president of the CTIA - The Wireless Association, and Gordon Smith president of the National Association of Broadcasters.

The video can be viewed here:
http://www.ideasinactiontv.com/episo...-airwaves.html
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post #2363 of 2851
9/13/11 at 6:42am
It's Back.......

Reclaimed TV Spectrum Valued at $28 Billion in Obama Jobs Bill

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/124414

Too bad that no one has an alternative plan...
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post #2364 of 2851
9/13/11 at 11:31am
It just never stops, does it?:

ITIF_Broadcasters_Should_Have_to_Share_Channels_Period

"Bennett laid into broadcasters, saying it was a dying technology and that with only 30 million people watching over-the-air, the spectrum could be consolidated from 300 Mhz to perhaps a tenth of that, and with multiplexing and compression techniques, the 30 or so channels most people are watching could be delivered as a multiple-use network. In fact, the report suggested that the definition of DTV going forward should be that rather than individual licensed channels."

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...els_Period.php
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post #2365 of 2851
9/13/11 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenglish View Post

It just never stops, does it?:

ITIF_Broadcasters_Should_Have_to_Share_Channels_Period

"Bennett laid into broadcasters, saying it was a dying technology and that with only 30 million people watching over-the-air, the spectrum could be consolidated from 300 Mhz to perhaps a tenth of that, and with multiplexing and compression techniques, the 30 or so channels most people are watching could be delivered as a multiple-use network. In fact, the report suggested that the definition of DTV going forward should be that rather than individual licensed channels."

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...els_Period.php

Why can't the users hoping to usurp massive amounts of spectrum be expected to use state-of-the-art multiplexing and compression, rather than insisting that changes be imposed (again) on broadcasters and consumers who have existing infrastructure? Could new multiplexed and compressed OTA content be received by existing TVs, DVRs, etc? Surely not. Bennett and many bureaucrats really don't care how much cost they mandate for consumers, either for new equipment or for cable fees when they kill broadcast TV.

And the article says the FCC "should essentially have a second DTV transition because the first one was 'botched.'" Botched? Really? Probably some details could have been handled better, but I'm receiving OTA content which is better (in picture quality) than cable and certainly better than anything I could have dreamed of before the transition. This is a golden age for OTA reception, and the cable companies want to kill it because broadcast TV is gaining viewers every day.
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post #2366 of 2851
9/13/11 at 12:28pm
I think that what they mean by "botched" is that, it didn't succeed in killing off broadcasting the first time around.
They'd like a "re-match".
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post #2367 of 2851
9/13/11 at 2:55pm
In the Pres's current "jobs" bill, is a reference to the spectrum and it's future uses as broadband. They are counting on that cash AND in the bill is the creation of a NEW Public Safety Broadband Corp. - non for profit. or some such name.

They are determined to knock off OTA before the next election, I swear!
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post #2368 of 2851
9/13/11 at 7:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pacofortacos View Post

In the Pres's current "jobs" bill, is a reference to the spectrum and it's future uses as broadband. They are counting on that cash AND in the bill is the creation of a NEW Public Safety Broadband Corp. - non for profit. or some such name.

They are determined to knock off OTA before the next election, I swear!

The amount of cash that will be raised as one-time payments for spectrum auctions is trivial in the context of our national debt. Even in these desperate times, Congress should know better than to sell spectrum rights so cheaply. And I believe that the whole concept of private ownership of parts of the electromagnetic spectrum is outrageous anyway. In the past legislators at least had enough sense to license it for use in the public interest.
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post #2369 of 2851
9/14/11 at 4:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by L David Matheny View Post

This is a golden age for OTA reception, and the cable companies want to kill it because broadcast TV is gaining viewers every day.

It gained 580,000 people last quarter when they canceled pay TV. People are finding out about clear HD and more channels than ever since OTA has gone digital. Pay TV companies are scared because they are losing customers in record numbers.

Having another DTV transition just two years after the last one is totally insane. Do they even care about the 14.3 trillion dollars in debt this country is in and the crap economy. No, they just care about their greed.
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post #2370 of 2851
9/14/11 at 4:32am
""Bennett laid into broadcasters, saying it was a dying technology and that with only 30 million people watching over-the-air, ........."

Interesting thought, though,...
The Big-3 U.S. Auto Makers sell far fewer than even 10 million cars, combined, in a year (I'm still looking for data on how many American-made cars are on U.S. roads), yet the same administration BAILED THEM OUT recently.
No one is even asking for a "bailout" for broadcasters. We just want to be recognized as a continuing part of the economy, and keep doing business. With 30 million (or, probably more) OTA viewers, what makes them unworthy of remaining a viable option?
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