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AVS Official Topic - The FCC & Broadcast Spectrum - Page 93

post #2761 of 2851
From B&C:

Copps: A Whole Lot of Spectrum Lying Fallow

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...ing_Fallow.php

Quote:


Former FCC commissioner Michael Copps said that he thinks there is a lot of spectrum lying fallow.

"There is a lot of spectrum out there, and I don't think anybody in the United States has very much of a clue exactly how much spectrum is lying fallow," he said in an interview for The Communicators series on C-SPAN.

He was asked whether the FCC had been remiss in making sure spectrum was available.

"I'll bet you there is a whole bunch of [spectrum] lying fallow that could fuel a whole lot of devices and fuel a whole lot of technology," which he said was an argument for a complete spectrum inventory.

Copps said he hoped the commission would expedite incentive auctions, but he said he was not comfortable with taking spectrum from one consolidated medium (broadcasters) to give it to another (wireless). "That does not necessarily translate into automatic enhancement of the public interest," he said...

Wasn't there already a call by Congress for a complete spectrum inventory?

Looking at the spectrum analyzer, broadcasting certainly appears to make the best use of spectrum. 700MHz LTE (download side only) also appears to make good use of spectrum. Outside of that, there are often seems to be very little being used at any given time.
post #2762 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_77 View Post

From B&C:

Copps: A Whole Lot of Spectrum Lying Fallow

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...ing_Fallow.php



Wasn't there already a call by Congress for a complete spectrum inventory?

Looking at the spectrum analyzer, broadcasting certainly appears to make the best use of spectrum. 700MHz LTE (download side only) also appears to make good use of spectrum. Outside of that, there are often seems to be very little being used at any given time.

It's easy to say there is fallow spectrum, but actually finding it is much more difficult. Spectrum inventories are incredibly complex. Taking a look with a spectrum analyzer tells you just about nothing expect who is broadcasting with high power. Check out this NTIA report for 1775 to 1850 MHz. Estimated cost to relocate the incumbents, $18 billion.

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/p..._march2012.pdf

Ron
post #2763 of 2851
Falcon_77
Telecomms know that with a new DTV std broadcasters will be able to deliver twice the current payload in 6 NHz and that this payload, with new compression, will deliver more programs and deliver these bits to hand-held devices throughout the service area with much less outage than the present std. Such capacity is a threat to their future business.
What's more, it cost much less to buy the spectrum now than to invest in more capacity before you really need it.
So from the telecomm point of view, these 2 reasons makes business sense to diminish DTV asap.
post #2764 of 2851
Just read that Harris Corporation, which is probably the biggest and oldest manufacturer of Broadcast transmitters and other equipment for radio and TV, is getting out of the business. They plan to just make their money on Government and Military equipment.

Hmmmmm!
post #2765 of 2851
From Broadcast Engineering
Quote:


FCC adopts channel sharing rules

The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) adopted new rules April 27 that will allow broadcasters to share the same 6MHz television channel, putting in place a key portion of its plan to make more spectrum available for wireless broadband Internet service.

The agency adopted the Report and Order in anticipation of conducting voluntary incentive auctions. It allows multiple broadcast stations to elect to transmit programming while sharing a single channel.

The Report and Order establishes a framework for how two or more television licensees may voluntarily share a single 6MHz channel in conjunction with the auction process.

According to the rules, stations will continue to be required to retain at least one SD programming stream transmitted OTA at no direct charge to viewers. However, they will be given the flexibility to tailor channel sharing agreements to meet individual programming and economic needs.

Stations sharing the same 6MHz channel will employ a single transmission facility, but will each continue to be licensed separately. Each will retain its original call sign, retain all the rights pertaining to an FCC license and remain subject to all of the FCC's rules, policies and obligations.

The new rules apply to full power and Class A television stations, including both commercial and noncommercial educational television stations. They neither increase nor decrease the cable and satellite carriage rights currently afforded broadcast licensees.

The Report and Order did not act on the proposals in a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking to establish fixed and mobile allocations in the U/V bands nor to improve TV service on VHF channels.

According to a commission announcement, the agency will address the allocation issue in a future rulemaking and may also address the VHF issues at a later date.

http://broadcastengineering.com/news...YM_MID=1309124
post #2766 of 2851
"According to the rules, stations will continue to be required to retain at least one SD programming stream transmitted OTA at no direct charge to viewers. However, they will be given the flexibility to tailor channel sharing agreements to meet individual programming and economic needs."

I am not an Electrical Engineer. What else can the spectrum be used for besides programming streams?
Does this open things up for encrypted channels that will require some sort of payment scheme, or does it open things up for LTE (whatever that is )
Thanks to anybody who actually understands this stuff for chiming in.
post #2767 of 2851
I think it's pretty much wide open.
Anything that can be sent digitally could be sent by stations, as long as they have sufficient bandwidth. They could send audio, video, graphics and charts, internet-like streams (IPTV), control signals for traffic lights and water utilities.....anything.

Personally, I'd like it all to be related to broadcasting, but if few people want to use it via OTA, then it could be used for whatever "wireless" uses they can sell.
post #2768 of 2851
There goes HD down the tubes...
post #2769 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenglish View Post

I think it's pretty much wide open.
Anything that can be sent digitally could be sent by stations, as long as they have sufficient bandwidth. They could send audio, video, graphics and charts, internet-like streams (IPTV), control signals for traffic lights and water utilities.....anything.

Personally, I'd like it all to be related to broadcasting, but if few people want to use it via OTA, then it could be used for whatever "wireless" uses they can sell.

Thanks for the clear answer. Not what I wanted to hear, but sounds about right. It's always about the money, and the cable/satellite/internet/LTE folks seem to have Washington pretty well under their thumb. Or so it appears to somebody looking from a non-professional point of view.
post #2770 of 2851
Thread Starter 
What are the odds that any major network stations are going to share channels? And if they do how is that going to show up on your TV? for example if WKRN( channel 2 ) and WSMV( channel 4) decided to share. Well currently channel 2 is on RF 27 but shows up as 2.1. Is WSMV which everyone knows as channel 4 and shows up as 4.1 suddenly going to show up as 2.2 or 2.3? Yeah that's not confusing not only is channel 4 not on the real channel 4 it shows up as 2.something. Just what grandma likes confusing stuff.
post #2771 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post

What are the odds that any major network stations are going to share channels?

Why would any major station want to "jump the shark" by sharing channels?
post #2772 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammer View Post

Why would any major station want to "jump the shark" by sharing channels?

Big businesses make decisions every day based on short term profits with little or no thought regarding their future.
A few quick millions for part of their OTA spectrum could be very appealing to greedy station owners, I'm afraid.
After all, by no longer giving their HD OTA signal away, they could demand even more money from the cable/satellite folks.
That's my "gloom, despair, agony on me" scenario.
I am often 100% wrong, and hope I am wrong in this matter
post #2773 of 2851
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathill View Post

Big businesses make decisions every day based on short term profits with little or no thought regarding their future.
A few quick millions for part of their OTA spectrum could be very appealing to greedy station owners, I'm afraid.
After all, by no longer giving their HD OTA signal away, they could demand even more money from the cable/satellite folks.

How so? If they take away HD from OTA and cable/satellite refuse to pay up NO ONE can watch their HD programming. Can't make money if no one is watching.
post #2774 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post

How so? If they take away HD from OTA and cable/satellite refuse to pay up NO ONE can watch their HD programming. Can't make money if no one is watching.

I like your line of thinking a whole lot better than I like mine.
It seems to me that every time locals demand more money from cable/satellite, they seem to get it.
I'm afraid the locals will quit giving away something they're getting a nice price for from the cable/satellite folks. Send out SD OTA, sell HD to cable/satellite.
If there's anybody reading this thread with more insight into the situation than me (which is pretty much everybody), let us know your thoughts.
post #2775 of 2851
I just got this email today.

Quote:


Congress Appoints Spectrum Working Group, Experts Call for Spectrum Inventory

Broadcasters had a busy April, keeping one eye on the federal government and the regulations that will govern upcoming spectrum incentive auctions, and the other eye on the new TV innovations coming to market. These exciting new technologies will empower viewers to get their favorite news, sports and entertainment on an ever expanding list of mobile phones and devices.

Our top priority continues to be ensuring viewers are not harmed as the federal government shapes the policy that will govern the spectrum incentive auctions. The House Communications and Technology Subcommittee recently appointed a Bipartisan Federal Spectrum Working Group to examine how the federal government can use the nation’s airwaves more effectively. We are monitoring these efforts to ensure that any recommendations take into account the needs of television viewers like you.

Interestingly, several independent experts have recently called into question whether a spectrum crunch exists, or whether wireless carriers simply need to be more efficient in their spectrum use. This is leading to renewed calls, most recently from former FCC Commissioner Michael Copps, for the government to conduct a complete spectrum inventory before rushing to reclaim spectrum from local TV stations.

In the meantime, local TV stations continue to innovate to better serve viewers like you. Earlier this month at the annual NAB Show in Las Vegas, Nev., technology to deliver high-quality broadcast video to mobile devices took center stage. On display were a plethora of devices capable of receiving over-the-air mobile DTV signals, allowing viewers to get their favorite video programming live on their mobile devices, without incurring any costly mobile data usage or charges.

We will continue to keep you up-to-date with new developments related to the implementation of spectrum legislation and new broadcast innovations on The Future of TV website and blog. You can also get updates via your favorite social network when you connect with us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter.

Thank you for continuing to be a champion for free, over-the-air television!
post #2776 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathill View Post

I like your line of thinking a whole lot better than I like mine.
It seems to me that every time locals demand more money from cable/satellite, they seem to get it.
I'm afraid the locals will quit giving away something they're getting a nice price for from the cable/satellite folks. Send out SD OTA, sell HD to cable/satellite.
If there's anybody reading this thread with more insight into the situation than me (which is pretty much everybody), let us know your thoughts.

If they do that they should go ahead and take the color away too and make more money from cable/satellite. But this isn't in their plans.
post #2777 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi Master View Post

If they do that they should go ahead and take the color away too and make more money from cable/satellite. But this isn't in their plans.

Love the "isn't in their plans" part!"
Did I detect a needle somewhere in the "take the color away too" part?

Thanks.
post #2778 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCF68 View Post

What are the odds that any major network stations are going to share channels? And if they do how is that going to show up on your TV? for example if WKRN( channel 2 ) and WSMV( channel 4) decided to share. Well currently channel 2 is on RF 27 but shows up as 2.1. Is WSMV which everyone knows as channel 4 and shows up as 4.1 suddenly going to show up as 2.2 or 2.3? Yeah that's not confusing not only is channel 4 not on the real channel 4 it shows up as 2.something. Just what grandma likes confusing stuff.

Using your example, WKRN would continue to show as channel 2.1 and WSMV would continue to show as channel 4.1. The change would probably be transparent to the average OTA viewer. The only possible change for a viewer would be if the two stations were not co-located before channel sharing, or if one station were broadcasting its signal on a VHF RF channel, and the other on a UHF RF channel.

I think the FCC is going to be surprised at how few stations opt for channel sharing.
post #2779 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathill View Post

Big businesses make decisions every day based on short term profits with little or no thought regarding their future.
A few quick millions for part of their OTA spectrum could be very appealing to greedy station owners, I'm afraid.

If short term profits is the goal selling the broadcast license makes more sense (and cents) than de-valuing it by more than half.
post #2780 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathill View Post

Did I detect a needle somewhere in the "take the color away too" part?

Thanks.

If they are going to use old technology they should think about taking the color away. Or if their that greedy take the picture way and just broadcast audio.
post #2781 of 2851
In our Engineering Department, some of us have (half-jokingly) discussed....

How about the entire Broadcast Industry just bids on the spectrum, keeps it all for Broadcast use, and puts an SDTV signal out for free?
Then, we use the rest of our bandwidth to broadcast encrypted HDTV for a fee.
And, we only supply SDTV to the Cable and satellite re-sellers. No HDTV available to the "competition".

(Of course, we might do a lot of antenna ads on the SDTV channels.)
post #2782 of 2851
That's funny, but in reality, the stations would go broke doing so. Too many people are perfectly content watching a 4:3 SDTV signal - stretched out to 16:9, of course - because they think that's HDTV.
post #2783 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenglish View Post

In our Engineering Department, some of us have (half-jokingly) discussed....

How about the entire Broadcast Industry just bids on the spectrum, keeps it all for Broadcast use, and puts an SDTV signal out for free?
Then, we use the rest of our bandwidth to broadcast encrypted HDTV for a fee.
And, we only supply SDTV to the Cable and satellite re-sellers. No HDTV available to the "competition".

(Of course, we might do a lot of antenna ads on the SDTV channels.)

So now everybody can see how much mischief this auction might cause.
Hopefully, nobody sells nuthin'.
post #2784 of 2851
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhett View Post

That's funny, but in reality, the stations would go broke doing so. Too many people are perfectly content watching a 4:3 SDTV signal - stretched out to 16:9, of course - because they think that's HDTV.

I'm still trying to get a good picture on my HD Radio .
post #2785 of 2851
From Broadcast Engineering
Quote:


CEA to Broadcasters: give up spectrum for a “better use”

by Michael Grotticelli May 7th, 2012

Gary Shapiro, president and CEO of the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA), has again pressed broadcasters to give up their spectrum for the use of wireless broadband applications.

In a letter to NAB President Gordon Smith last week, Shapiro accused the NAB chief of using his leadership platform to discourage broadcasters from participating in the spectrum auction.

“As you know, broadcasters do not legally own the spectrum at issue and have been assigned limited duration licenses,” Shapiro wrote. “Congress was extraordinarily generous in allowing broadcasters to be compensated for these limited duration licenses should they choose to offer them for auction.

“Recent statements discouraging participation in and support of these auctions are not only inconsistent with the goals of Congress, but also are not helpful to competition necessary for a successful and competitive auction,” he said.

Shapiro cited a headline from the recent NAB trade show saying that the NAB had “declared war on wireless.” The NAB’s Smith was quoted at the show as saying that the adversaries of broadcasters are smart, ruthless and “believe that the best days of broadcasting are over.”

Shapiro, continued, noting that in your NAB keynote that you “‘don’t envy the commission its job; implementation of the legislation is daunting and will take years to complete,’ which isn’t a ringing endorsement of the upcoming auctions.

“Nor are statements to press that ‘we’ve heard no hooves of a stampede. I find our members excited about their business, their futures and anxious to hold on to their spectrum.’ ”

Shapiro has been critical in the past of the broadcasters whose “paltry audience” for over-the-air television broadcasts is using valuable spectrum. He also criticized the NAB for lobbying against using spectrum for wireless broadband.

The CEA chief has outlined his arguments in a book, The Comeback: How Innovation Will Restore the American Dream. In that book, he calls for rapid development of wireless broadband services in order for the U.S. to meet the demands of millions of American consumers.

NAB spokesperson Dennis Wharton disputed Shapiro’s characterization.

“NAB supported the voluntary incentive auction legislation passed by Congress and looks forward to working with the FCC and Congress to implement the bill,” said Wharton. “We would note that just like radio and TV, spectrum licenses of broadband providers like Verizon and AT&T are also of limited duration and subject to renewal.”

I'll have to reserve comment on this before I say something I regret.
post #2786 of 2851
Shapiro's an ass.
post #2787 of 2851
The real question should be why is the president and CEO of the Consumer Electronics Association willing to condemn a major part of the consumer electronics industry based on speculation that U. S. consumers are stupid enough to be willing to spend most of their disposable income on ever higher mobile cellular bills?
post #2788 of 2851
Who made this shill the boss?
Time for a new election at CEO.
post #2789 of 2851
Thread Starter 
Quote:


As you know, broadcasters do not legally own the spectrum at issue and have been assigned limited duration licenses, Shapiro wrote. Congress was extraordinarily generous in allowing broadcasters to be compensated for these limited duration licenses should they choose to offer them for auction.

Someone should educate Mr Shapiro that Congress also forced 1700+ stations to spend millions of dollars to convert from analog to digital just a mere 3 years ago. So while they might not own the spectrum I think it's only fair that if you are going to insist that these stations give up broadcasting just a few years after spending MILLIONS of dollars on a MANDATED conversion they SHOULD be compensated for that.

Seriously how stupid is that to mandate the analog to digital change then a few years later say "oh sorry we want your spectrum".

Quote:


Shapiro has been critical in the past of the broadcasters whose paltry audience for over-the-air television broadcasts is using valuable spectrum.

Actually only Comcast and DirecTv have more people using them than OTA. But hey why let's FACTS get in the way of a good rant by Mr Shapiro.

Also as of right now LESS people are using 4G than are using OTA so what the hell is he talking about. Verizon even admitted only 5% of their customers use 4G.

I'd like to ask Mr Shapiro what happens when the mobile companies get all the TV spectrum and they still need more? What will they do? Maybe they'll have to be more efficient with the spectrum then. HEY here's an idea why not do that NOW?
post #2790 of 2851
Will Mr. Shapiro and his fellow CE executives be willing to reimburse all of the people who purchased new TV sets, converter boxes, and antennas, in order to experience the "Digital Transition"?
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