Anyone still running Infinity Speakers like me? - Page 5

Always good to see another Overture 3 owner post here. One of mine had to have an amp replaced as well as a tweeter. Otherwise they've been great and are now in a stereo only setup in my living room. Not as good as my IL60s, but few speakers are (in the grand scheme).

After 12 years I gave away a pair of IL60 and IL36C this spring. I love my new system, but miss these great speakers. For sentimental reasons I've kept my IL40's as surrounds, not sure anything out there could touch them anyway.

Wow. Your new speakers must be remarkable. IL60s/IL36c are far and away the best speakers I have ever owned. Provided that their new stewards dial them in correctly, they should enjoy them immensely. I'm just curious enough to want to know what their previous speakers were. And with what you've replaced them.

I have purchased Philharmonic Audio fronts and center. After so many years I felt an upgrade was warranted. For 2 channel listening there is no question, the new setup shines. For HT it's about even, but I never ran the powered subs in the Interludes during home theater.

My friend hasn't had a setup for a few years, he's just starting out again.

I will Google the Philharmonic Speakers as soon as I get done posting this.
The IL 60 with the IL 36 center are awfully hard to beat as a home theater setup.
The IL 40 is very musical for 2 ch listening.

If you lived close you could come hear my Phil 2's..should be here end of next week

Florida is a tad bit away from Philly though. Can't wait for mine to get here.

Depends on how resourceful he is. Many of the modern AVRs allow you to set a max gain problematically (mostly to prevent accidents from young children).

There are also any number of amps with good limiter circuits.

There are generally solutions to most problems.

The 801s2 was indeed an awesomely flat speaker once it was properly amped (I ran them of a Yamaha P5000S). Very neutral. There's a reason they were the best selling speaker anywhere near their price-range back in their day; and they hold up quite well against modern $3k speakers.
There were a pair of Infinity RSIIb's on craigs here less than a year ago. Think they were asking $3k. I still have a pair of RSIIIb's here at the house.
Infinity had already lost it's name, and JBL is mostly known in the pro world.

They have higher-end names. Lexicon (used in Rolls Royce), Mark Levinson, and Revel.

The prices are similar to what used 801S2's run (higher actually, a good pair of 801s can be had for $2k or less) and you won't get more power-handling.

I JUST dumped a pair of Martin Logan Mosaic Speakers that used the Bohlander Ribbons for the midrange and tweeter. Can you say "lifeless" and with no soul ?
OK, on the very best recordings (Audiophile chit, with warmth built in) they sounded great. But on everything else, they were RUTHLESS and Un Musical.
And yes, I know how to set up a dipole speaker.

It is not my wish to rain on your parade, just be sure you get a 30 day money back guarantee.

Those Ribbons scare me, they were anything BUT "Musical".

Perhaps the Philharmonic Speakers use them better, but I don't know ?

A few months with those Ribbons in the Martin Logan Mosaic was enough, to cure me!

My Gawd, my RN Girlfriend even thought they sucked, and she hates my Stereo System (I spend too much time with it, according to her)

She can hear though, and loved my old B&W Matrix 801's

And, she even liked my old Celestion SL 600's, she said they were "small and sounded good"!

IMHO, "cruel and unusual audiophile punishment" is to sentence any audiophile to 6 months with a pair of speakers, using the same ribbons as the Martin Logan Mosaic.

^^ The dipole configuration of Philharmonic speakers is configurable, the back can be fully stuffed or left open. This allows for a lot of flexibility in both placement and personal listening choice. Moreover, Martin Logan's hybrids aren't known for accurate frequency response, and while I like the sound of electrostats, not so much in the low end or hybrid configuration. I've heard top end ML and Magnepan in big spaces that would make you cry, in small spaces that would make you scream The BG planar midrange and RAAL ribbon tweeter in the Phil's make for a beautiful combination, I've not had anything this "musical" in my home before. But then I could never afford high end full-on electrostats either.

If you get a chance to listen to a pair I think you will enjoy them.

Well, Dennis Murphy is behind them, and he sure knows what he is doing.
I would just Love to hear a pair!

I have ordered many "sure thing" speakers off the Internet, only to be very disappointed! That's why I always demand a 30 day or more in home trail.

I have owned Martin Logan Monoliths, and big Sound Labs. Of all Electrostats my old Beveridge Cylinders and my old Quad 63's were my favorites, and I also has Acoustat 1+1's that I had a guy remove the Medallion Transformers and drive them directly with Tube Amplifier!

LOL, I am older now, and not so "tweaky" anymore.

My Left Brain and Right Brain are constantly fighting each other.

OK, for the sake of this thread, here is some Email banner between Sean Olive of Infinity, and me.

Here are the labs on some Infinity Speakers. Pay close attention to the Infinity IL 60! It is about as close to perfection as it gets, nearly ruler flat!


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Wed, Dec 6, 2006 at 2:11 PMDec 6, 2006
Message starred
from Chris Tucker to 1 recipient
RE: IL 40 Measurements VS Primus 360 Measurements
Show Details
3 Attachments232.4KBSlideshowSave All to Computer
I think I am going to just hold out for the IL 60 ?
Most impressive!
It also seems a BIT more efficient, EH ?

I am from Detroit originally, played Hockey too.
Many friends in Leemington,, Sarnia, Windsor, and Marksbury, Ontario.

I know it has been a long time Sean, but can yiou recall if IL 40 and IL 60 did well in subjective tests.

I have GIVEN UP on NOT using tone correction.

I spoke to Floyd a while ago, he picked up phone when I asked for the Lab to get some plots.

Quad makes a really cool preamp with a TILT contron tht hinges at 1K!

You can simply tilt things up and down to suit the programme, room, or your tastes, at the moment.

I have owned many "High End" speakers, and it took me about 30 years of listening to discover they are MOSTLY glorified tone controls that you cannot turn off!

Many sound "great" initially, with hyped up prescence regions, that gives a sense of great detail and transparency, at first.

But after awhile, they wear on you.

Most "high end" guys do not have tone controls, and so are helpless to correct their speakers.

Floyd "talked me into" TRYING tone controls, and I have never looked back.

See for yourself ?

Measure some high end speakers, and either they will have hyped up freq response, or SEVERE warmth curves.

I know you guys probably look more at Polk, and mid fi stuff, but have you ever had high end stuff in the lab >



"Olive, Sean" wrote:
Hi Chris:

<< You guys have LEARNED from Paradigm!>>

1. It’s more like the other way around, or more accurately, we ALL learned from the research done at NRC.
Both myself and by boss (Dr. Floyd Toole , VP Acoustic Engineering at Harman) worked at the National Research Council in Ottawa before joining Harman in 1991 and 1993. Floyd worked at NRC since the late 1960;s and did the pioneering research that allowed us to correlate objective loudspeaker measurements with listeners’ preference ratings. I joined him in 1985. Canadian loudspeaker companies (Paradigm, Energy-Mirage, PSB, Axiom, etc) all NRC’s research and facilities to develop better loudspeakers. Two of my engineering colleagues at NRC joined Paradigm after I left in 1993, and we are still good friends.
So naturally, when we all left NRC we applied the research and knowledge we had learned towards developing better loudspeakers. The facilities and tools we have now far exceed what was available back at NRC – especially Harman’s listening test facilities.

2. I can’t say for sure whether the Primus 360’s will play as loud as the Il40’s but I would expect they would.

3. The cabinet is fine. Remember that tapping your fingers on the side of a speaker in no way represents what you will hear when it plays music. When you play signals through the speaker its panels are excited in a totally different manner both mechanically and acoustically, which in no way approximates the effects heard from tapping your finger. If the panel resonances do not show up in the measured frequency response, then you have nothing to worry about.

3. Below the IL60 measurements (ignore the bump @ 30 Hz which is measurement error) Pretty nice, EH?? ( BTW, not all Canadians say EH.. especially after moving to California where we blend in rather well with the rest of the natives here J)






Sean Olive
Manager Subjective Evaluation,
R&D Group
Harman International
8500 Balboa Blvd.
Northridge, CA , 91329
Tel: (818) 895-5776

From: Chris Tucker [mailto:ka7niq@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 6:54 PM
To: Olive, Sean
Subject: RE: IL 40 Measurements VS Primus 360 Measurements

Gosh Sean, I almost hate to say this, but if one notes the off axis curves of Primus 360, it is even better then IL 40, and smoother on axis too!

Where Infinity went wrong IMHO with Primus is NOT making a Super Centre Chanel, EH ?

IL 40 mates well with it;s SUPER IL 36 Centre, EH ?

Primus is compromised by a comparatively small Centre ?

You guys have LEARNED from Paradigm!

Primus 360 is better, much better then it has any "right" to be ?
You are targeting the entry level buyer, hoping he shall return for more better Infinity someday ?

Let's talk cabinet, is Primus 360 cabinet pretty silent ?

The Harman outlet HAS some IL 60's!

Got any IL 60 curvees ?

Will Primus 360 play as loud as IL 40 ?



"Olive, Sean" wrote:
Chris, in terms of sound quality the Primus 360 is currently one of the best speakers you can buy for the price and I recommend it to people who ask me. (I just recommended it earlier today to an employee here who could afford anything we make).

You can see that its response is pretty similar to the Il40. The IL40 does have more output below 40 Hz., and slightly flatter bass below 100 Hz. However, if you have a subwoofer(s) the differences between them become moot. The IL60 is a great speaker if you can still find it.







Sean Olive
Manager Subjective Evaluation,
R&D Group
Harman International
8500 Balboa Blvd.
Northridge , CA , 91329
Tel: (818) 895-5776

For 10 years I've proclaimed that my IL60s are my last speakers. I wish your post had links to the graphs and data to which you refer so graphically.

I cut and pasted what I posted, and the graphs were in the email, but this Forum did not display them!

I will figure out how to post the Infinity IL 60 graphs, for all to see the impressive accomplishment if the Infinity Engineers.

Bear with me!

OK, here come the curves!

One picture is the measured response of the IL 60, the other is the Infinity Primus 360

The IL 60 is nearly ruler flat, the Primus has what is called the "NRC Curve"

When Sean Olive was at Infinity, he sent me a few measurements of well known high end speakers. Some were absolutely terrible, with huge peaks and dips, and terrible off axis response.

The Infinity IL 60 is an incredibly impressive engineering achievement, as one can easily see from the measured on and off axis response.






Edited by Ka7niq - 3/8/13 at 8:33pm

Still using RS 4.5s that I bought in about 1979. Fantastic speakers, and furniture.
Back then I had them hooked up with a Carver preamp, and two Carver cube power amps at 500 w/channel. One KW total.

Another Infinity owner checking in. Funny you mention the IL40's. I picked up a near mint pair back around October for the blow-you-away price of $175 for the pair. These are the first real pair of high end speakers I've owned and they far have exceeded my expectations. I use them for 98% music, so I don't need gobs of 20-30Hz LF. With that said though, they can hold their own when it comes to bass heavy music.

I think we need an Interlude owners thread.

**EDIT**
If there's anyone in the Detroit area that may be interested in some IL50's, send a PM my way and I can check with the guy I got my IL40's from. Last I knew, he was still trying to sell them. Pretty much mint condition. No manuals, boxes or RABOS though.
Edited by zagnutty - 4/7/13 at 3:31pm

I bought a new 12 inch woofer for one of my Infinity 4000 speakers. Harman Kardon screwed things up so badly. First they sent me one that got bent in shipping (UPS - they don't handle much of anything with care) partly because of cruddy packaging. So I mailed it back and the shipped me another. Two days later they sent me an email and said, "Keep the bad one, we don't need it." A week later the new one arrived. I put it in the speaker and it works great. Then, I get an email from Harman Kardon saying that they had shipped my speaker. Sure enough, another one arrived a week later. I replaced the one in the other speaker so that I now have 2 new 12 inch woofers. ( the other is now a spare) After all of the hassle they put me through, and it was a lot, I felt so much better getting 2 for the price of one, and that one I got was with a discount. With a new cartridge and needle in my Technics SL -Q200 and a new Harman Kardon 3490 receiver I am once again in bliss, listening to my vinyl form the 70's and 80's.

I bought a new AVR recently, the Pioneer SC-1522/SC-1527/SC-65 (same receiver, different names). Nine channels X 130 W at 8 Ω, via D3 digital amps. All I can say is, "Wow!" It has caused me to fall in love with the sound of my speakers all over again. I have OVTR-2 (X2) fronts, OVTR-1 (X1) center, RS-3s (X4) surrounds. In fact, I am gonna go buy two more OVTR-1s from a local CL sale to replace the side L and R surrounds. So that will net me five channels of Overtures all around. Eventually, if and when available, I will have to locate two more for the rear L and R surround. I really don't care what others say, I dig the sound of these things.

..i have been always a big fan of the infinity's overtures ...from the they were launch ..years ago

never got the opportunity..to get a pair ...but i can only imagen..how good they sound..the 3's are my favorite..maybe one day ...ohhhhh:D

After years of intense HT use, my Overture3s are now relegated to stereo only status. And still so nice in a 15'x21' room.

Hello fellow Infinity owners, just wanted to put my 2 cents in. I'm running with a pair of Alpha 50's for my fronts, an IL25c for the center, OWS-1 for my surrounds and a PS-12 sub. Basically a hodgepodge of all their lines. Gonna pick up a pair of Primus bookshelf speakers tomorrow off of CL to finish out the 7.1 configuration and move the OWS-1's to my surround backs. Unfortunately my sub died on me, as is the case with most of the infinity subs. I got it off craigslist so what can you expect. After reading this thread I see a lot of people really like the interlude series. I've got a little bit of Primus, alpha, entra, and interlude in my setup, any opinions about which line I should get a complete set of? My set up, while being a Frankenstein's monster of Infinity speakers, sounds great, I do you always love to hear what this forum has to say though.

Got a question for ya. Have the opportunity to buy a OVTR-1, minus drivers. Do you know if the sub section is separate from the other drivers? And what size driver / volume of it?

Thanks!

sweet must be nice...

Robotolove, I recommend the Alhpa series if youn can find any. Good luck!

Hahaha! Of course Mr. 49Merc would suggest the Alphas. I drooled over your set up when I first picked mine up. I was digging up all the info I could find on the Alphas and found the link to your pics on CNET. Those are sweeeet. Are you still rocking those? I found an Alpha center on Craigslist for $35, gonna scoop that thing up asap. I gotta tell you though it's going to be hard to part with my OWS-1's from the Entra series. I really love that pair, but when putting together a set up of discontinued speakers its really up to the Craigslist and Ebay gods.

Absolutely! Updated all my other equipment but the Alpha's shall stay forever. Thanks.

Hey, there. You should not buy one minus the drivers unless you can source them from somewhere first. Word on the street is that Harman can supply them. No guarantees on that. I would bet folding money that the cost of replacement 4" poly drivers of that era would be more than a complete OVTR-1 in good shape on the used market. As a point of reference, I was able to buy them local CL for $75 each in good working order. Drivers would be more than that, guaranteed.

The sub is integrated. The speakers used are: D'Appolito MTM array of 1 X 1" silk tweeter and 2 X 4" polypropylene midrange drivers. A 10" (self-powered 150W) midbass/subwoofer oriented orthogonal to the main driver array.

By the way, it is fun to consider that these speakers were designed by Andrew Jones while he was at Infinity/Harman after he left KEF. Just a footnote. But an interesting one, as his new Walmart-priced, giant-killer Pioneer speakers are the darlings of the HT audiophile world at present. (This happens every few years it seems with freakish dirt-cheap mass-market audio products that happen, against all odds, to actually sound good yet cost almost nothing--Tripath amps, Minimus 7s, Realistic Supertweeters, KLH plastic mini-whatevers, etc., etc, come to mind.) He is getting quite a bit of reputation as a result. Again, just a curiosity to ponder.
Edited by treyrhodes - 4/14/13 at 5:01am

Was Mr. Jones also responsible for the design of the rest of the Overture line? Pretty sure they were pre-Toole. I can't help but be reminded of a review by Cory Greenburg in Audio Magazine many years ago of some speakers, HLS100s I think, where he comments that the Infinity Overture line of speakers were "unlistenable". Wish I still had the print copy.
Edited by GLBright - 4/14/13 at 12:56pm

According to one interview I saw:

In an audio interview, he claimed to have designed the Prelude (presumably the P-FRs), Overture, and RS/Reference Series Infinity lines. I do know for a fact that Laurie Fincham was involved in the Preludes also. And, FWIW, I think Floyd Toole fired up the Harman Consumer Group Acoustical Engineering Lab in Northridge in 1991. Or, so I have read.

My point was that there has often been a lot of talk like "Oh, those Harman Infinity speakers were designed before Floyd Toole's Infinity speakers [therefore they must be inferior]..." However, Andrew Jones is currently the poster boy for good, mass-market sound. Just food for thought.

Regarding the Overture 2 being "unlistenable", well, I dunno. I used to read that mag and pretty much that guy came off as a highly opinionated snob of the highest order. And he was prone to hyperbole. I bet he really liked to read his own stuff. They are clearly not unlistenable. They have their flaws. They were not Wilson Audio behemoths. They do not have burlwood furniture grade cabinets and weigh 250 lb each. Mr. Greenburg was the type of audio twit who let his interconnects have a sufficient break-period before he could do subjective listening, I would bet. (Apologies if he is your neighbor or something!)
Edited by treyrhodes - 4/14/13 at 2:04pm

So close to 30 years have passed since Andrew Jones first appeared at KEF. It pleases me that he has of late focused his talents on making the general consumer end of the loudspeaker market better and not on making some high end brand even higher still.

I rarely see any talk on any forums about my particular Infinitys. I have speakers from the last Kappa series. These speakers were originally made for the European market. However, they were sold in the US for a couple of years before being discontinued. So, they are not widely known and are kind of hard to find, but I do occasionally see them come up for sale on the auction sites.

I have a complete Kappa system. The 600's as the mains, a pair of 200's for the surrounds and the Kappa center. For the sub I have dual Infinity Intermezzo 1.2s subwoofers. It's a wonderful system. I've had it about 10 years now and I don't have any complaints nor any desire to upgrade. This system is great for music and movies. I normally listen to music with 2 channels only and the 600's are downright spectacular for this. These speakers were originally fairly expensive, but I was able to get them at their close-out price. I consider myself very lucky to have found them because they suit me perfectly.
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