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Mits HC3800 Tweakers Thread

post #1 of 102
1/14/10 at 7:36am
Thread Starter 
Yeah, I know there is another HC3800 forum, but I read through all pages and didn't see any real tweaking comments and I wanted to save others the agony of having to go through it all--took several hours.

That said, I realize the best thing to do is get an Avia disc and tweak away, but I would like to hear what others have done. I just got mine hooked up yesterday, and out-of-box in low mode the picture looks good. But to my eyes the skin tones are slightly off compared to my HD70. I changed color temp and that didn't help, so I need to go deeper into the colors--and that's where I get a little apprehensive. Skin tones look tannish-green on most cable channels, then on others a weird pink. Brilliant Color on or off doesn't change it.

What are your tweaking experience for both blacks and colors??
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post #2 of 102
1/14/10 at 8:51am
I haven't done calibration on mine, but i will soon, i just need to figure out how, because here in Mexico i haven't found any calibration disk, not even a blue filter to use with the THX calibration tool.
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post #3 of 102
1/14/10 at 9:55am
Thread Starter 
Amazon has it, though not sure if they do international mail...

http://www.amazon.com/Avia-II-Artist...3491565&sr=8-1
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post #4 of 102
1/14/10 at 10:09am
Thanks, it seems Amazon does ship DVDs internationally, i will order the Avia II today or tomorrow
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post #5 of 102
1/14/10 at 4:49pm
Thread Starter 
Come on. Anyone??? Geesh is the HC3800 that great that it needs no tweaking??
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post #6 of 102
1/14/10 at 6:06pm
I have been working on it, but continually get myself lost. I simply do not have enough experience to navigate all the settings available. Gamma in 3 steps for each color individually is a new one for me, as is the advanced color management menu allowing for adjusting sat. and gain for 7 colors. These settings are in addition to the normal adjustments avail. for temp. I have not decided if this pj is a tweakers dream or nightmare. I have obtained a picture that suits me for now, but I suspect that others would not like it...my taste runs to the cool side. I hope some pros chime in here...and thanks for starting the thread.
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post #7 of 102
1/15/10 at 7:32am
Thread Starter 
Klok, you expressed my experience exactly. I'm looking for a slightly colder setting to get rid of a slight green skin tan on many channels, but the 7 color-tweaking nightmare is too much to mess with. I'm hoping someone has crossed this barrier successfully.
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post #8 of 102
1/15/10 at 12:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

Klok, you expressed my experience exactly. I'm looking for a slightly colder setting to get rid of a slight green skin tan on many channels, but the 7 color-tweaking nightmare is too much to mess with. I'm hoping someone has crossed this barrier successfully.

Surely you would use a purer source than Television to set your projector against? As you have already said, color even varies between some channels. Wouldnt it be better to use a Blu-Ray or DVD setup disk to setup the projector initially and then adjust your Television signal to suit the projector? What is the color like on Blu-ray or DVD movies?

What is connected to your projector, a set top box or pvr? Is it connected by HDMI? Does it have much in the way of settings? R/G/B or Color Space selections?

In my case using an Oppo blu-ray player and the Spears and Munsil HD Benchmark Blu-Ray which came with it (Excellent disk if you need one). Color was excellent on the standard 'cinema' setting and medium color temperature. All I have done so far is access the user settings in Image/Color Temp/User Menu with Reference=Medium and reduce the red a bit and tweaked the contrast and brightness patterns in the Image menu to match the instructions that accompany the patterns. But excellent color on blu-ray disks with the standard cinema settings even before the change.

Have you tried using different Gamma modes like Video or Auto for your televison signal, just to see what effect it has?

It would be interesting for a start to look at a standard stepped grey scale pattern off a test disk and see if they are truely grey or whether they are 'colored' in some way.

I generally dont use my projector for television as our HD tv is crap. But if I get a chance this weekend I will connect it up and have a look. I dont think it will be much help as we probably use different video standards over here.

I presume you will be saving your settings for television to one of the AV memories.

I think the 7 color tweaking game may not be the answer initially as more basic setting changes could be explored first?
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post #9 of 102
1/15/10 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

Klok, you expressed my experience exactly. I'm looking for a slightly colder setting to get rid of a slight green skin tan on many channels, but the 7 color-tweaking nightmare is too much to mess with. I'm hoping someone has crossed this barrier successfully.

Surely you would use a purer source than Television to set your projector against? Wouldnt it be better to use a Blu-Ray or DVD setup disk to setup the projector and then adjust your Television signal to suit the projector?

What is connected to your projector, a set top box or pvr? Is it connected by HDMI? Does it have much in the way of settings? R/G/B or Color Space selections?

In my case using an Oppo blu-ray player and the Spears and Munsil HD Benchmark Blu-Ray ( http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/) which came with it, color was excellent on the standard 'cinema' setting and medium color temperature. All I have done so far is access the user settings in Image/Color Temp/User menu, with Reference=Medium. Then I reduced the red a bit and tweaked the contrast and brightness patterns in the Image menu to match the instructions that accompany the patterns. But excellent color on blu-ray disks with the standard cinema settings even before the change. Maybe in your case you could try going to the same place and knocking the Green back a bit more than the standard setting.

Have you tried using different Gamma modes like Video or Auto just to see what effect it has on the TV signal?

It would be interesting for a start to look at a standard stepped grey scale pattern and see if they are truely grey or whether they are 'colored' in some way.

I generally dont use my projector for television as our HD tv is crap. But if I get a chance this weekend I will connect it up and have a look. I dont think it will be much help as we probably use different video standards over here.

I presume you will be saving your settings for television to one of the AV memories.

I think the 7 color tweaking game may not be the answer initially as more basic setting changes could be explored first?
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post #10 of 102
1/15/10 at 7:22pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by btiltman View Post

Surely you would use a purer source than Television to set your projector against? Wouldnt it be better to use a Blu-Ray or DVD setup disk to setup the projector and then adjust your Television signal to suit the projector?


I think the 7 color tweaking game may not be the answer initially as more basic setting changes could be explored first?

You make some good points, but, ahh, the family watches TV and well, you know, they keep asking me why the picture isn't as good as it was with the HD70?? Blu-ray appears to be fine like you suggest, however, TV keeps switching colors on me and there appears to be a green bias, so I'm hoping someone has tackled the same issue.
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post #11 of 102
1/15/10 at 8:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

You make some good points, but, ahh, the family watches TV and well, you know, they keep asking me why the picture isn't as good as it was with the HD70?? Blu-ray appears to be fine like you suggest, however, TV keeps switching colors on me and there appears to be a green bias, so I'm hoping someone has tackled the same issue.

What 'box' are you using for TV and what type of connection?
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post #12 of 102
1/16/10 at 12:35am
I don't see how anyone can stand to watch "TV" on their projector(unless it's HD, of course).
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post #13 of 102
1/16/10 at 8:21am
yeah non-HDTV looks pretty bad when blown up to 100+" Heck it looks bad at even 80".
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post #14 of 102
1/16/10 at 3:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by btiltman View Post

What 'box' are you using for TV and what type of connection?

Yes, it's an Motorola HD box through HDMI 1080i (highest res you can get with cable). Looked fine on my HD70, but colors seem off on my HC3800. I think there is some green bias but don't know. I am waiting form my calibration disc to show up.
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post #15 of 102
1/16/10 at 9:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

Yes, it's an Motorola HD box through HDMI 1080i (highest res you can get with cable). Looked fine on my HD70, but colors seem off on my HC3800. I think there is some green bias but don't know. I am waiting form my calibration disc to show up.

As the HC-3800 is known to have good color on its default settings, I would be setting the projector to defaults and checking the settings of the Motorola box and see if they can be adjusted to suit the projector in this case. (especially 'Color Space'). The setting it is on may have suited the old projector but may not be correct as far as this projector is concerned. As you havent said what model of Motorola it is I cant check what settings it has available in its menus.

(Update: I temporarily hooked up my Humax TV Set Top Box with HDMI and the color and picture look fine on the HC-3800. The only way (on my projector) to make it look even a bit greenish was to put it on 'sports' instead of 'cinema' setting. I ended up using 'Video' and tweaking the setting and saving to AV3 for future use )
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post #16 of 102
1/17/10 at 8:23am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by btiltman View Post

As the HC-3800 is known to have good color on its default settings, I would be setting the projector to defaults and checking the settings of the Motorola box and see if they can be adjusted to suit the projector in this case. (especially 'Color Space'). The setting it is on may have suited the old projector but may not be correct as far as this projector is concerned. As you havent said what model of Motorola it is I cant check what settings it has available in its menus.

(Update: I temporarily hooked up my Humax TV Set Top Box with HDMI and the color and picture look fine on the HC-3800. The only way (on my projector) to make it look even a bit greenish was to put it on 'sports' instead of 'cinema' setting. I ended up using 'Video' and tweaking the setting and saving to AV3 for future use )

Good point, I will try a different color space on the cable box and see if that makes a difference. That said, I agree that sports mode is awful, and very green. Perhaps to make the turf look good?
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post #17 of 102
1/17/10 at 2:39pm
Mine so far.....based on 100% light controlled environment and note this will produce a brighter picture and some people may not prefer if they are looking for a theater look.

I like these as the brighter image gives the picture more pop and depth.

Bulb mode=low
Gamma=Auto
Contrast=3
Brightness=13
High Brightness mode
Color =7 (I like my picture a little saturated)
Tint=4
Sharpness=2 (odd #'s introduce artifacts)
BC=Auto

112" HTPC Wallpaper:
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post #18 of 102
1/17/10 at 5:01pm
Maybe there is something wrong with your 3800...mine dosen't have a greenish tint unless im on sports mode..
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post #19 of 102
1/18/10 at 3:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragster View Post

Mine so far.....based on 100% light controlled environment and note this will produce a brighter picture and some people may not prefer if they are looking for a theater look.

I like these as the brighter image gives the picture more pop and depth.

Bulb mode=low
Gamma=Auto
Contrast=3
Brightness=13
High Brightness mode
Color =7 (I like my picture a little saturated)
Tint=4
Sharpness=2 (odd #'s introduce artifacts)
BC=Auto

Question: What is 'High Brightness Mode' if you have the bulb on 'Low' ??

Is that a BC thingy?

And speaking of BC, you have that on 'Auto', how does that work? All the BC settings I've seen before have set points to choose from (or just on/off) ??
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post #20 of 102
1/18/10 at 4:04pm
High Brightness is a color temperature setting like war, cool etc... BC on the 3800 has three settings(On/Off/auto). Unlike other projectors that let you set the BC from say 0-10 the 3800 only has the three settings. I'm still curious what On is in terms of a number.
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post #21 of 102
1/18/10 at 4:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

High Brightness is a color temperature setting like war, cool etc... BC on the 3800 has three settings(On/Off/auto). Unlike other projectors that let you set the BC from say 0-10 the 3800 only has the three settings. I'm still curious what On is in terms of a number.

Well, I'd like to know what 'auto' on BC does? It sounds like some sort of dynamic BC, which i've never heard of....
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post #22 of 102
1/19/10 at 7:23am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleaman View Post

Well, I'd like to know what 'auto' on BC does? It sounds like some sort of dynamic BC, which i've never heard of....

From what I've read, auto switches the BC on when it's needed, e.g. when the colors aren't bright enough. I've turned it off and it does seem to decrease brightness on some scenes in low lamp mode.

I'm hoping to collect all of our questions and send them to Mits for explanation along with all the syncing issue.
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post #23 of 102
1/19/10 at 8:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

From what I've read, auto switches the BC on when it's needed, e.g. when the colors aren't bright enough. I've turned it off and it does seem to decrease brightness on some scenes in low lamp mode.

I'm hoping to collect all of our questions and send them to Mits for explanation along with all the syncing issue.

Thanks that would be great if Mitsu would answer the questions. I'm also wondering what level of BC is actually used when set to on. By that I mean in a range of 0-10(like most projectors with BC) is the on setitng equal to 1, 6, 10 or what?
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post #24 of 102
1/19/10 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

Thanks that would be great if Mitsu would answer the questions. I'm also wondering what level of BC is actually used when set to on. By that I mean in a range of 0-10(like most projectors with BC) is the on setitng equal to 1, 6, 10 or what?

Wouldn't that just be arbitrary numbers? I'm sure every different PJ with adjustable BC #'s aren't related to any standard. Meaning one PJ's '10' could be similar to another's '5'.
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post #25 of 102
1/19/10 at 1:22pm
True but I'd still like to know. Is it a a very minimal amount of BC, say a 1 or 2 or is it full blown BC like a 9 or 10.
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post #26 of 102
1/21/10 at 4:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

True but I'd still like to know. Is it a a very minimal amount of BC, say a 1 or 2 or is it full blown BC like a 9 or 10.

I've got that on my list for Mits. Please everyone give me your questions and I will consolidate for Mits or someone in the know to answer...I will post my "questions so far" list tomorrow.
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post #27 of 102
1/22/10 at 12:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

I've got that on my list for Mits. Please everyone give me your questions and I will consolidate for Mits or someone in the know to answer...I will post my "questions so far" list tomorrow.

I've got a GREAT question for Mits. When are they going to get this damn thing fixed so I can buy one?
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post #28 of 102
1/22/10 at 12:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post

I've got a GREAT question for Mits. When are they going to get this damn thing fixed so I can buy one?

Whats wrong with it?
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post #29 of 102
1/22/10 at 7:48am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jack007 View Post

Well, I just finished my calibration with DVE. While calibrating I did notice that there is a slight color shift from left to right (facing the screen). I know many others have mentioned this, so I was not surprised. The color shift is faint, but noticeable if you look for it on a solid color screen. It can be seen on a solid white, black or grey screen. I saw it easiest on a grey screen. I wonder if all of the 3800s have this?!?!? It really isn't noticeable when watching a movie and I can live with it, but I wish it wasn't there. The shift goes from warm to cool, red to blue, from left to right.

Anyway, here is what I found and adjusted with my calibration. The projector (as I have it set up) can not pass blacker than black (below black) with my BD55 and HDMI cable run. I tried setting black on my BD55 to darker and HDMI to enhanced (and every other setting I could mess with) and nothing made a difference. This may be a limitation of my Blu Ray player, can anyone verify whether or not the projector can pass a below black signal?

All of my calibration was done with Gamma in Cinema, Low Lamp and with BC on.

With that being said my final settings for the projector were:

Contrast = +18
Brightness = +7
Color = +2 (FYI, it was '0' with BC off, I checked)
Tint = +1
Sharpness = +1

Contrast # setting seemed a bit high to me, but it looks fine and it was the only setting that allowed me to see the 100% white and the whiter than white bars on the grey scale gradient screen. Since I could not pass blacker than black, I set the brightness using dithering and also the 2% above black pluge bar. I am pretty confident it is right on.

Also, when checking the color saturation with the Blue, Red and Green lens, I was right on with both Blue and Red (a good thing), but Green was off a decent amount, and could not be adjusted without messing up Red and Blue. So, I opted to leave it as is and have 2 out of 3 right on. FYI, this is a very common issue with displays and many times only Blue is right on and both Red and Green are off, so I was pretty pleased with the result. This would need to be tweaked if someone was going to take the calibration to the next level.

Time for bed...

Jack

Lifted this from the other HC3800 thread.
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post #30 of 102
1/22/10 at 8:24am
Thread Starter 
Feel free to suggest changes, additions, etc. Also, I know some of you believe you have answers, but I really want Mits to give us their view.

1. How does Auto Brilliant Color work and at what level is it set at-High, Medium, or Low-is there a numerical value?

2. There have been shutdown issues with early projectors that do not go through the lamp/fan cool down cycle. It appears that this was/is a firmware 1.0 issue. Newer projectors have firmware 3.0. Is this true and what are changes made in firmware 3.0? Mitsubishi support has denied the existence of firmware 3.0 in the US, yet many owners have proved the existence via the service menu.

3. Related to shutdown, several owners have experienced shutdowns that do go through the lamp/fan cool cycle after they try different cables or try to overcome syncing problems. Please confirm that the HC3800 has a feature to shutdown if it "thinks" there is a cable problem/failure.

4. Many users have experienced syncing problems with different cable lengths, also with older and newer cables. Replacing older cables with newer thicker ones sometimes works, but not consistently. Also, having a hdmi switch box between sources and projector appears problematic with syncing. Several users have used the service menu to extend cable lengths to counteract this, but it works sporadically. What is Mitsubishi's recommendation for solving cable/syncing issues? What type of syncing issue could ultimately damage the projector, though it appears to work okay? For example, are repeaters, equalizers, switch boxes, etc. harmful to the projector?

5. Can the projector be flush mounted to a ceiling without heat issues? Many projectors require a minimum of 4" from the bottom to the ceiling to avoid overheating. The HC3800 manual does not state a minimum.

6. How is image noise reduction handled? There is a sharpness control, but no noise reduction control as others projectors have.

7. Are there hidden features that support the quality of the image that are not documented beyond the advanced menu?

8. Some owners have experienced focus shift after the projector warms up. Is this an issue with the projector, or simply a problem with start up of a projector in non-typical cold environment?

9. Some owners have experienced a slight color shift from one side of the image to the other, especially on a white source image. Is this a projector fault or other known issue: e.g. due to types of cables, image settings, etc.
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