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Mits HC3800 Tweakers Thread - Page 2

post #31 of 102
1/22/10 at 3:04pm
Re Question 4 - the manual states that:

"To connect to the video device using a splitter, make sure to use the splitter compliant with the HDMI 1.3 Deep Color Standard. If you use the splitter not compliant with the HDMI 1.3 standard, this projector may not display any image or not operate correctly."

Although this is specifically mentioning splitters, the spec would apply to the whole HDMI chain. Therefore anyone who is using cables (and any other hdmi device) that is not 1.3 compliant will have issues that are not Mitsubishi's fault. Some information indicates that 'deep color' was part of the 1.3 spec whilst some say 1.3a. The 1.3 spec also introduced a much higher bandwidth capability.

From what I can make out, 1.3 compliant devices and cables started to become available in early 2007 so older cables will not be compliant and plenty of non compliant cables and devices would have been sold between then and now.

Its all part of the great HDMI debacle along with a connector with no locking mechanism
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post #32 of 102
1/22/10 at 4:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

Feel free to suggest changes, additions, etc. Also, I know some of you believe you have answers, but I really want Mits to give us their view.

1. How does Auto Brilliant Color work and at what level is it set at-High, Medium, or Low-is there a numerical value?

Here is a description of BrilliantColor (a Texas Instruments technology for their DLP chipset) from a HC3000 review. The implementation is the same in the HC3800:

"As announced by TI and reported here previously, BrilliantColor consists of a new color processing chipset and a new color wheel design that includes filters for both the three primary and three complementary colorsred, green, blue, cyan, magenta, and yellow. However, in this particular implementation, Mitsubishi has used TI's new BrilliantColor chipset and adapted it for use with a conventional six-segment RGB-RGB color wheel rotating at a 4x speed.

In operation, you can opt to activate or deactivate the BrilliantColor system by toggling On or Off in the menu. When BrilliantColor is activated, the picture becomes immediately brighter. Blacks and shadow values remain perceptibly unchanged while midtones and highlights increase in luminance by about 25%. All colors increase in luminance by the same ratio, and gray values do as well. Though midtones and highlights are brighter, there is no visible increase in color saturation. The result is that it opens up mid-tone information nicely. However, depending upon how it is calibrated and the screen size and material being used with it, it may overdrive the whites. A reduction in the contrast control may be required to bring the intensity of the whites down to a manageable level.

Most HC3000 users will opt to run with BrilliantColor engaged, as the picture typically looks a bit dull by comparison when it is not operating. However, this will depend on the material being displayed. For example, with material like HD sporting events, or the television series Lost in HD, or animated DVDs like Toy Story and Shrek, the BrilliantColor feature delivers a more engaging image overall. However, when we viewed a live indoor concert being broadcast in HD, the scene itself was already extremely high in contrast due to stage lighting and spotlighting. With this type of material the color and contrast appeared more natural with BrilliantColor deactivated. Thus, you will want to experiment a bit and find your own preferences."

Reference: http://askville.amazon.com/mitsubish...uestId=3518028

I have found that toggling BC on and off with a white scale contast pattern on the screen, I can still see all the graduations of white. This will of course vary with your initial contrast setting etc.
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post #33 of 102
1/22/10 at 4:54pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by btiltman View Post

Here is a description of BrilliantColor (a Texas Instruments technology for their DLP chipset) from a HC3000 review. The implementation is the same in the HC3800:


I have found that toggling BC on and off with a white scale contast pattern on the screen, I can still see all the graduations of white. This will of course vary with your initial contrast setting etc.

Thanks for your update on the splitters and BC. All of the cable problems I have had (and others have had, I think), all used 1.3 cables. In fact, I used 1.3a, b, c and category 2, but still had problems with each. My switcher is also 1.3b deep color compliant.

As for BC. The way it is described is a change in gamma, which it might be, but we still want to know as to what level of change and can that level be affected manually to a lesser, greater extent (I'm assuming it can.)
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post #34 of 102
1/23/10 at 10:37am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

Feel free to suggest changes, additions, etc. Also, I know some of you believe you have answers, but I really want Mits to give us their view.

1. How does Auto Brilliant Color work and at what level is it set at-High, Medium, or Low-is there a numerical value?

2. There have been shutdown issues with early projectors that do not go through the lamp/fan cool down cycle. It appears that this was/is a firmware 1.0 issue. Newer projectors have firmware 3.0. Is this true and what are changes made in firmware 3.0? Mitsubishi support has denied the existence of firmware 3.0 in the US, yet many owners have proved the existence via the service menu.

3. Related to shutdown, several owners have experienced shutdowns that do go through the lamp/fan cool cycle after they try different cables or try to overcome syncing problems. Please confirm that the HC3800 has a feature to shutdown if it "thinks" there is a cable problem/failure.

4. Many users have experienced syncing problems with different cable lengths, also with older and newer cables. Replacing older cables with newer thicker ones sometimes works, but not consistently. Also, having a hdmi switch box between sources and projector appears problematic with syncing. Several users have used the service menu to extend cable lengths to counteract this, but it works sporadically. What is Mitsubishi's recommendation for solving cable/syncing issues? What type of syncing issue could ultimately damage the projector, though it appears to work okay? For example, are repeaters, equalizers, switch boxes, etc. harmful to the projector?

5. Can the projector be flush mounted to a ceiling without heat issues? Many projectors require a minimum of 4" from the bottom to the ceiling to avoid overheating. The HC3800 manual does not state a minimum.

6. How is image noise reduction handled? There is a sharpness control, but no noise reduction control as others projectors have.

7. Are there hidden features that support the quality of the image that are not documented beyond the advanced menu?

8. Some owners have experienced focus shift after the projector warms up. Is this an issue with the projector, or simply a problem with start up of a projector in non-typical cold environment?

9. Some owners have experienced a slight color shift from one side of the image to the other, especially on a white source image. Is this a projector fault or other known issue: e.g. due to types of cables, image settings, etc.

Last call for questions or updates. I will be contacting Mits tomorrow...
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post #35 of 102
1/23/10 at 11:42am
I've got one. Why is Mitsubishi telling people with 1.0 HC3800 projectors who want to get theirs upgraded to 3.0 that there isn't any US 3.0 firmware HC3800 projectors and that all 3.0 HC3800 projectors are European only.
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post #36 of 102
1/23/10 at 3:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

I've got one. Why is Mitsubishi telling people with 1.0 HC3800 projectors who want to get theirs upgraded to 3.0 that there isn't any US 3.0 firmware HC3800 projectors and that all 3.0 HC3800 projectors are European only.

See question 2 above, but I will reword to ask this pointed question. I too am miffed over this US/Euro statement since all of the new projectors in the US appear to have the 3.0 firmware now. I've seen this before where the US sales/support are the last to know of any changes. You've got to wonder sometimes what these companies think their prime sales target are. This is clearly not a presentation projector, but yet they treat is as such.
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post #37 of 102
1/23/10 at 3:50pm
Thanks three123, Thanks for compiling the list and getting touch with Mitsu, it's greatly appreciated. I 'm sure you'll word my question to Mitsu in a way that gets the question across but without the tone I had(sorry it was a bit rough).
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post #38 of 102
1/23/10 at 4:01pm
Fragster -- Nice picture (post #17), but your colors are way off -- if you have ever been to that part of our country, you would know. This is due, in part because they are way over-saturated (whether you like it, or not). It's your preference, of course.

CALIBRATION -- Art's calibration settings are posted here: http://www.projectorreviews.com/mits...alibration.php. I would not recommend that you use his "RGB" settings unless you have the necessary measurement instrumentation to verify those settings -- they are highly screen and viewing environment dependent. They were done in the high lamp mode, but should work in the low lamp mode as well (except for the "RGB" settings).

TWEAK -- Did you know that the HC3800 could be used as a CIH PJ (2.35:1 CinemaScope) and 16:9 (HDTV format), without an external Anamorphic lens? This "undocumented" feature was uncovered on the HC5500 and HC6500 models. Per the HC3800 manual, this should work on the HC3800 as well. Since I don't have access to a HC3800, I don't know how well this "undocumented feature" will work (or what the picture quality will be). The trick is as follows:
Quote:


SUMMARY: To use a CIH 2.35:1 screen with the HC5500/HC6500/HC6800 PJs, without an Anamorphic lens, perform the following settings (do not use the "Anamorphic Zoom" or any of the other zoom modes):

{ASIDE: This may also work on the new HC3800, but is untested on that model.}

1.) MENU => IMAGE => ADVANCED MENU => OK (enter button) => SCREEN SIZE = CINEMA SCOPE(2.35:1)

2.) MENU => FEATURE => ASPECT = AUTO

To switch between the 2.35:1 and 16:9 modes, use the "Aspect" button on the remote -- "Auto" for 2.35:1 and "16:9" for 16:9 sources (or 4:3 for SDTV sources).

----------
OPTIONAL SETTINGS (Video blanking of the black bars):

1a.) MENU => SIGNAL => USER => OK (enter button) => SHUTTER(U) = set to about 22 (increase until the black bar starts to cut off the top of the image, and back off by 1unit).

2a.) Repeat step #1a. for SHUTTER(L) -- again increase the setting until the black bar starts to cut off the bottom of the image (around 22) and back off by 1 unit.

-- The following optional adjustments can be used for video blanking of the "black" side bars for 16:9 movies (using the ASPECT button on the remote):

1b.) MENU => SIGNAL => USER => OK (enter button) => SHUTTER(LS) = set to about 53 (increase until the black bar starts to cut off the left side of the image, and back off by 1 unit).

2a.) Repeat step #2b. for SHUTTER(RS) -- again increase the setting until the black bar starts to cut off the right side of the image (around 53) and back off by 1 unit.

When going back to a 2.35:1 movie, be sure to reset the side Shutters (LS) & (RS) back to "0".

NOTE: The shutter settings, unfortunately, cannot (AFIK) be saved in any of the “User” memories.

Legairre & threed123 -- It's more likely that it is because the HC3800 is their "loss leader", and they don't expend the resources needed for "proper" support.
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post #39 of 102
1/23/10 at 4:25pm
Thread Starter 
Good stuff CT! Thanks. I will try the hidden modes. The Optoma HD20 has this as a feature--you get a 2:1 screen and compromise between 2.4:1 with small bars at the top and image cutoff on either side and 16:9 with some cutoff top and bottom.
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post #40 of 102
1/23/10 at 4:38pm
threed123 -- With the CinemaScope(2.35:1) engaged, there is no change in the picture (when watching a 2.35:1 video). What it does do is to resize the 16:9 (1.78:1) image to fit into the same screen height (that's what CIH means), with black bars on each side.
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post #41 of 102
1/23/10 at 5:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

Fragster -- Nice picture (post #17), but your colors are way off -- if you have ever been to that part of our country, you would know. This is due, in part because they are way over-saturated (whether you like it, or not). It's your preference, of course.
.

Hi Claus

Actually, its a indication of my bad camera man skills. I have a Canon S5 P&S and it has its limitations when it comes to low light shooting. The next day when I compared that shot to my desktop, the colors were off by 20%, I'd say.

I tried taking some more shots today of the same desktop and they do not come close to what I'm seeing so I will not post as it could give bad impressions of the HC3800. It's weird, some of the movie shots come out great on my Canon but with some shots, it's hard to capture the true details/depth of the image.

I'll try better next time.
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post #42 of 102
1/23/10 at 9:37pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

threed123 -- With the CinemaScope(2.35:1) engaged, there is no change in the picture (when watching a 2.35:1 video). What it does do is to resize the 16:9 (1.78:1) image to fit into the same screen height (that's what CIH means), with black bars on each side.

Yes!! It works on the HC3800 just as you stated. The reduced 16:9 image also uses less of the DMD and looks to reduce resolution by half or more. It's a great solution for those who watch mostly movies with some TV now and then, though.
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post #43 of 102
2/1/10 at 7:07pm
If some of you are still finding a hint of too much green and want a slightly cooler picture try something along these lines:

Gamma: User..reference Video/ Adjust mode=All Colors
High 7 6 7
Med 7 6 7
Low 9 7 9

Contrast 2
Bright 10
Temp Cool
Color -4
Tint 2
Sharp 2
BC 0n
Color Mgmt off (still playing with this one)
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post #44 of 102
3/6/10 at 1:16pm
What is your contrast setting and what test pattern did you use? Thanks.
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post #45 of 102
3/23/10 at 6:40am
Thread Starter 
Here are my tweaks for 145" screen in low lamp mode using Spears and Munsil DVD.

Color = 4
Contrast = 4
Brightness = 6
Sharpness = +2

Color Temp = User1 (then inside User1)
Reference = Medium
Contrast R = -11
Contrast G = -5
Contrast B = -4

I found that both Red and Blue were clipped, especially Red. I left the Green as it was originally. It's probably why I was seeing a greenish tint in flesh tones. With the new settings, I do not see that anymore. Using calibration, I should have adjusted R down to -22 or something like that. That made gray look perfect, but the reds lost their pop, so I adjusted up a bit.

Color = 4
Contrast = 4
Brightness = 6
Sharpness = +2

If I'm playing a really dark movie, I will bump up the brightness and contrast by one. Changing contrast and brightness equally seems to shift the range of blacks and white equally to adjust for screen color (e.g. gray vs. white screen).

Others have set their contrast much lower than I have to preserve blacks, but I don't like the lack of definition in the dark gray areas, so I leave it higher.
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post #46 of 102
3/23/10 at 7:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

Here are my tweaks for 145" screen in low lamp mode using Spears and Munsil DVD.

Color = 4
Contrast = 4
Brightness = 6
Sharpness = +2

Color Temp = User1 (then inside User1)
Reference = Medium
Contrast R = -11
Contrast G = -5
Contrast B = -4

I found that both Red and Blue were clipped, especially Red. I left the Green as it was originally. It's probably why I was seeing a greenish tint in flesh tones. With the new settings, I do not see that anymore. Using calibration, I should have adjusted R down to -22 or something like that. That made gray look perfect, but the reds lost their pop, so I adjusted up a bit.

Color = 4
Contrast = 4
Brightness = 6
Sharpness = +2

If I'm playing a really dark movie, I will bump up the brightness and contrast by one. Changing contrast and brightness equally seems to shift the range of blacks and white equally to adjust for screen color (e.g. gray vs. white screen).

Others have set their contrast much lower than I have to preserve blacks, but I don't like the lack of definition in the dark gray areas, so I leave it higher.

What screen do you use?
Thanks
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post #47 of 102
3/23/10 at 7:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir View Post

What screen do you use?
Thanks

See the link. I used a DIY BOC screen painted with a 1.3 gain paint (RS-MaxxMudd-LL)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post18137180
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post #48 of 102
3/23/10 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

See the link. I used a DIY BOC screen painted with a 1.3 gain paint (RS-MaxxMudd-LL)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post18137180

My room is 16Lx11Wx7.5H and will have at some degree controlled lights but not pitch black. The room has windows but I plan to install some "heavy" drapes and I want to build (DYI) a fix screen..
I would like to have the projector ceiling mounted at aprox 15 feet back from the screen. I used the Projector Central calculator and I'm looking for an aprox 140' 16x9 diagonal screen.
What will be the best approach: white or grey screen?
Thanks
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post #49 of 102
3/23/10 at 10:21am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir View Post

ceiling mounted at aprox 15 feet back from the screen. I'm looking for an aprox 140' 16x9 diagonal screen.
What will be the best approach: white or grey screen?
Thanks

Grey screens help with the blacks on this projector and also some ambient light. However, with white you get more dazzle (in my opinion, anyway). Since you want to go 140" (you really don't mean feet' do you), then painted black out cloth or painting a wall are probably best options. You will be at full zoom at 15 feet, which is good for brightness. I would go to the DIY screen thread--lots of ideas there. Check out the MaxxMudd thread and Tiddler threads. You'll get better feedback there. I used RS-MaxxMudd-LL, slightly grey. It uses flat white paint, silver and gold pearlescent craft paints and Polycrilic satin (like clear varnish) in a specific mix with water. Check out the beginning of the thread in my last message. It gives ideas on paint and gain. The formulas can be found in the official paint thread for MaxxMudd. Tiddler (search older thread) has some good ideas using just Behr UPW flat paint and Polycrilic, especially if you want to roll and not spray the paint on.
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post #50 of 102
3/23/10 at 12:08pm
Threed, do you have any pics of your finished screen?
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post #51 of 102
3/23/10 at 4:31pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooLocsta View Post

Threed, do you have any pics of your finished screen?

In my thread...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1218944
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post #52 of 102
3/23/10 at 6:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir View Post

My room is 16Lx11Wx7.5H and will have at some degree controlled lights but not pitch black. The room has windows but I plan to install some "heavy" drapes and I want to build (DYI) a fix screen..
I would like to have the projector ceiling mounted at aprox 15 feet back from the screen. I used the Projector Central calculator and I'm looking for an aprox 140' 16x9 diagonal screen.
What will be the best approach: white or grey screen?
Thanks

A 16' room and a 140" screen? WAY too big. What will your seating distance be?
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post #53 of 102
3/23/10 at 7:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post

A 16' room and a 140" screen? WAY too big. What will your seating distance be?

Nonsense.....nothing's too big. I have a 120" and will be going to 145" by end of summer this year. I was planning the same time as Threed started but he was more determined in getting his done while I slacked off.

Off topic, but if u buy those blue/cyan 3d glasses and watch the 3D videos off youtube, it's insane!
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post #54 of 102
3/23/10 at 8:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post

A 16' room and a 140" screen? WAY too big. What will your seating distance be?

My projector is 16 feet from the wall, and I sit just below it to watch my 145" screen and it's fine. I thought it might be too big at first, but now I wouldn't want anything smaller--and my HC3800 is even in low lamp mode. It's sharp with lots of pop. The Olympics were just plain fun to watch. Real eye candy.

I won't argue about it being too big, though. My wife and daughter were very disoriented when first viewing it after watching mostly a 52" Sharp. My son does lots of XBOX games on it and the Wii is a real hoot at that size--us guys love it.
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post #55 of 102
3/23/10 at 11:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by threed123 View Post

My projector is 16 feet from the wall, and I sit just below it to watch my 145" screen and it's fine. I thought it might be too big at first, but now I wouldn't want anything smaller--and my HC3800 is even in low lamp mode. It's sharp with lots of pop. The Olympics were just plain fun to watch. Real eye candy.

I won't argue about it being too big, though. My wife and daughter were very disoriented when first viewing it after watching mostly a 52" Sharp. My son does lots of XBOX games on it and the Wii is a real hoot at that size--us guys love it.

Are you the guy that sits in the front row at the movie theater? When it gets too dim and you have to run it in high power mode, let us know how you like the noisy fan.
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post #56 of 102
3/24/10 at 5:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post

A 16' room and a 140" screen? WAY too big. What will your seating distance be?

I will have a recliner with one row of 4 sits at aprox 15 feet distance from the screen.
Temporary I have an Optoma HD71 projecting a 120" picture on an empty wall and 4 sits at 11 feet distance.
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post #57 of 102
3/24/10 at 6:36am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post

Are you the guy that sits in the front row at the movie theater? When it gets too dim and you have to run it in high power mode, let us know how you like the noisy fan.

No...I like a reasonable image too. By the way there is a high brightness mode in low lamp mode that kicks up the brightness without the fan. I've had Optomas in the past with louder fans, so it's not going to be a problem. When I decided on going to the bigger screen, I made sure the projector could handle decaying lamp brightness with grace. Plus when the basement furnace fan kicks on...well it overpowers everything anyway
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post #58 of 102
3/24/10 at 1:52pm
The 1st screen I understand:


It's this part I having trouble deciphering:


Taken from here: http://www.projectorreviews.com/mits...alibration.php
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post #59 of 102
3/24/10 at 2:05pm
Thread Starter 
You will find that standard lamp mode is different than low, and it's frustrating that the reviewers all seem to use standard mode for their reviews. Go into user1 mode to change settings, but I recommend you get a calibration DVD to do this. Check out my settings and note how different they are. Each projector appears somewhat unique in it's calibration from the factory.
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post #60 of 102
3/25/10 at 8:46am
perfectvision had these settings for low lamp mode. They didn't post contrast and brightness,but those are room dependent so it wouldn't make sense to post them as a global setting anyway.

http://www.avguide.com/review/mitsub...sion-86?page=1
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