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I'm not stupid, but: 4550, 4650, 4670? - Page 2

post #31 of 54
1/18/10 at 6:54am
not to go off topic or anything but does ATI have better image quality than the nvidia counterparts? I know nvidia has better hardware acceleration support... Is the primary thing Vector Adaptive 1080i deinterlacing in some models? does nvidia have something similiar? I've been leaning towards nvidia for my next build because of the acceleration.
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post #32 of 54
1/18/10 at 7:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariner888 View Post

Try these 1920x1080x60p clips:

http://jp.sanyo.com/xacti/products/l...00/sample.html

This could be another reason to get a good GPU. Here is a quick test with Clip 03 (SANY0048.MP4, 1080p59.94, 450 frames in total), MPC HomeCinema x86, Haali Media Splitter, Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder and EVR:

GPU Frames drawn Percentage
HD 4350, DDR2-1000 161 36%
HD 4550, GDDR3-1800 416 92%
HD 4650, DDR2-800 400 89%
HD 4670, GDDR3-2000 450 100%
GeForce 210, DDR2-800 415 92%
GeForce GT 220, DDR2-800 450 100%
Intel HD Graphics (Core i3 530) 450 100%
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post #33 of 54
1/18/10 at 7:46am
Thread Starter 
I wonder where the 5570 will fit into that chart? Hopefully at 100%.

But speaking of deinterlacing (which was the original topic, sort of) ....

Would I be better served turning deinterlacing off in CCC and letting my Denon AVR handle it?

It has an Anchor Bay ABT2010 upscaling chip which, as I understand it, is supposed to be very adept at upscaling and deinterlacing.

I'll still probably wait for the 5570s, since that sounds like the best value for my setup. But I do need to know whether I should let the AVR or the GPU handle the deinterlacing (if it matters).
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post #34 of 54
1/18/10 at 7:50am
well the problem there is that Windows doesn't change resolution on the fly. So if you leave it on 1080i output, 1080p and 720p materials will be interlaced by the gpu before output.
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post #35 of 54
1/18/10 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

This could be another reason to get a good GPU. Here is a quick test with Clip 03 (1080p59.94, 450 frames in total), MPC HomeCinema x86, Haali Media Splitter, Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder and EVR:

GPU Frames drawn Percentage
HD 4350, DDR2-1000 161 36%
HD 4550, GDDR3-1800 416 92%
HD 4650, DDR2-800 400 89%
HD 4670, GDDR3-2000 450 100%
GeForce 210, DDR2-800 415 92%
GeForce GT 220, DDR2-800 450 100%
Intel HD Graphics (Core i3 530) 450 100%

That's interesting. So the UVD in these chips is dependent on the shader power as well? I always thought UVD was independent of the stream processors.
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post #36 of 54
1/18/10 at 7:54am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinqian View Post

well the problem there is that Windows doesn't change resolution on the fly. So if you leave it on 1080i output, 1080p and 720p materials will be interlaced by the gpu before output.

Oh, yuck.

Thanks!
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post #37 of 54
1/18/10 at 7:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenIAm View Post

I wonder where the 5570 will fit into that chart? Hopefully at 100%.

But speaking of deinterlacing (which was the original topic, sort of) ....

Would I be better served turning deinterlacing off in CCC and letting my Denon AVR handle it?

It has an Anchor Bay ABT2010 upscaling chip which, as I understand it, is supposed to be very adept at upscaling and deinterlacing.

I'll still probably wait for the 5570s, since that sounds like the best value for my setup. But I do need to know whether I should let the AVR or the GPU handle the deinterlacing (if it matters).

Leaked specs indicates that 5570 (Redwood-based, not Cedar?) is better than 4670.

No, never turn off deinterlacing. Interlaced contents are always deinterlaced and converted to progressive inside PC.
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post #38 of 54
1/18/10 at 8:01am
Thread Starter 
Thanks, Rene. The little sleuthing I did on the 5570 looks like it will be well priced, too. So that is what I shall get. Hopefully the early driver bugs won't be too bad.
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post #39 of 54
1/18/10 at 8:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinqian View Post

That's interesting. So the UVD in these chips is dependent on the shader power as well? I always thought UVD was independent of the stream processors.

I am not sure where the point is. Maybe memory bandwidth? 1080p 60 frames per second may require fast video memory to be processed properly.
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post #40 of 54
1/18/10 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenIAm View Post

I have only a 5.1 setup with no plans to upgrade, so I don't know if I'd benefit from audio bitstreaming. Especially since I plan on getting a standalone BD player as opposed to putting one in my HTPC.

As for power consumption, this graph shows a 5670 consuming 22W @idle, compared to just 10W for a 4670 (and 5W for 4550). I haven't had a chance to look for other graphs, though, so maybe this one is wrong?

you can still benefit from a 5670. I don't know what your receiver supports but HDMI can provide lossless audio. And there are a few ways to achieve it. Even with your receiver.

Specs of a 5550 and it's issues:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1217410

However there isn't going to be a 5550. There will be a 5450 and a 5570 so what specs is that referring to? Either way they launch on February 6th. http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3720&p=3
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post #41 of 54
1/18/10 at 8:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by archer75 View Post

you can still benefit from a 5670. I don't know what your receiver supports but HDMI can provide lossless audio. And there are a few ways to achieve it. Even with your receiver.

You don't want the 5570, leaked specs show 64bit memory controller and it will have the same problems as the 4550.

Sounds like it's worth getting the 5xxx series then.

Guess I'll have to wait and see what the released product actually has. The specs I saw showed the 5570 with a 128-bit controller, so who knows what it will actually ship with?
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post #42 of 54
1/18/10 at 10:08am
General decoding guide for ATI model numbers:

Generation(3/4/5)-Series(3/5/7)-Level(5/7)-0
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post #43 of 54
1/18/10 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariner888 View Post

Try these 1920x1080x60p clips:

http://jp.sanyo.com/xacti/products/l...00/sample.html

archer75 is right. Get a 5670 if you need a 4670 class card.

Weird I've never had an mkv that wouldnt play with my set up.
mpc-hc x64
haali
mpc decoder
evr custom

I had to change to the microsoft dvd-dtv (or whatever its called) to get one of those clips to work. I think it was dropping some frames though. (8500gt)

So is the microsoft decoder superior? With the mpc decoder I just got a black screen when it played.
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post #44 of 54
1/18/10 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

I am not sure where the point is. Maybe memory bandwidth? 1080p 60 frames per second may require fast video memory to be processed properly.

That argument falls flat when looking at the GT 220. These video cards are like black boxes.

PS. when is your new guide coming out? been waiting for a week now!
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post #45 of 54
1/18/10 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by archer75 View Post

you can still benefit from a 5670. I don't know what your receiver supports but HDMI can provide lossless audio. And there are a few ways to achieve it. Even with your receiver.

Specs of a 5550 and it's issues:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1217410

However there isn't going to be a 5550. There will be a 5450 and a 5570 so what specs is that referring to? Either way they launch on February 6th. http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3720&p=3

The Anandtech slide calls it 5500 series without calling out the specific model number.
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post #46 of 54
1/18/10 at 4:45pm
"Series" means that there are at least two models with number 55xx, maybe 5550 and 5570. The major difference would be video memory...
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post #47 of 54
1/18/10 at 5:30pm
I have also read somewhere that the 4670 is the minimum of the 4XXX cards that will decode interlaced 1080i streams using VA. Apparently the 4650 and below will not allow you to do this (I think due to memory speed limitations).
It was a while ago I read this, so please take this with a grain of salt and do your own research..

If anyone with these cards can confirm or deny this..

Correction: there are some 4650 with faster memory modules (500Mhz) which supposedly enable correct VA deinterlacing.
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post #48 of 54
1/18/10 at 8:57pm
@renethx: Try testing with EVR/CP. You may find the GT220 being a borderline case.

@whiteboy714: Someone broke the internal decoder of MPC and no one was able to fix it. Try ver. 1043.
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post #49 of 54
1/18/10 at 9:08pm
[quote=el_kano;17953353]I have also read somewhere that the 4670 is the minimum of the 4XXX cards that will decode interlaced 1080i streams using VA. Apparently the 4650 and below will not allow you to do this (I think due to memory speed limitations).
It was a while ago I read this, so please take this with a grain of salt and do your own research..

If anyone with these cards can confirm or deny this..

[quote]
My 4650 will use VA with TMT 3 when Aero is disabled.
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post #50 of 54
1/18/10 at 9:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariner888 View Post

@renethx: Try testing with EVR/CP. You may find the GT220 being a borderline case.

@whiteboy714: Someone broke the internal decoder of MPC and no one was able to fix it. Try ver. 1043.

Hey man thanks for the response. You don't know where I might find it do you? I didn't find it Here

Or should I just be fine with the microsoft version? I really see know difference. But I would prefer to use the superior one.
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post #51 of 54
1/18/10 at 9:22pm
Here you go:

http://www.xvidvideo.ru/media-player...cinema-x86-x64

MS decoder may have minor aspect ratio issues but is otherwise ok. You could also use Cyberlink or Arcsoft decoders.
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post #52 of 54
1/19/10 at 12:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariner888 View Post

@renethx: Try testing with EVR/CP. You may find the GT220 being a borderline case.

Yeah, I already did it and I posted only results with EVR (no CP) intentionally. GeForce is the only satisfactory solution for EVR CP. Dropped frames with EVR CP under various situations is often reported at Doom9's Forum. I guess it's a driver/EVR CP issue rather than weak hardware. Anyway people often use 7MC to play back files from camcorders and there is no issue in this case.
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post #53 of 54
1/19/10 at 9:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariner888 View Post

Here you go:

http://www.xvidvideo.ru/media-player...cinema-x86-x64

MS decoder may have minor aspect ratio issues but is otherwise ok. You could also use Cyberlink or Arcsoft decoders.

thank you
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post #54 of 54
1/22/10 at 12:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariner888 View Post

True enough. You need 1920x1080x60p.

Or better yet, 1920 x 1080 @ 24p.
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