AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › ?Best small home sub for small dimension-enclosed shelf/cabinet;(h)14"x(w)11"x(d)14"?
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?Best small home sub for small dimension-enclosed shelf/cabinet;(h)14"x(w)11"x(d)14"?

post #1 of 59
1/18/10 at 10:36pm
Thread Starter 
EDIT------Cubby hole idea is now out. Post #56 has my current question (is this sub too close to the walls?) with dimesions of the room still being the same as mentioned through out this thread.
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Man I hate trying to put a subwoofer in an enclosure, but its not for me. An addition on the house is being built and the shelf / cabinet is the only option offered to me. The enclosure is actually in a corner, on the floor (not shelf) about 6ft from the TV. The front of the cabinet was going to have a false stone face, across the whole shelf/cabinet. Holes could be drilled into that face, or replaced with some other material for the sub part (but other material is not preferred). The top of the sub enclosure could be left open or have some type of screen, or an opening/closing lid (which I'm sure would also be preferred).
I assume I have to leave some wiggle room (at least for power cord, volume knob), but here is the max space offered to me:height=14 1/8", width=13 1/2", depth=16 1/2".
(on a side note, Is it okay to put an outlet down there next to it, for it?)

The surround speakers are the Energy Take classic 5.0. I was really, really trying to stay around $150-$250 for the sub (but I've got to make this work so if the only way is a higher priced sub let me know). Can you suggest a subwoofer and maybe offer why? And could you describe the type of sound I could expect, for a room about 17' (tv to back surround speakers) x 30' (sub in corner(tv in mddle), whole room opens up to dining room / hallways; I can't find the floorplan right now so I estimated 30' which includes room opening up to next wall). I am a complete novice. Thanks in advance for your help!

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I do not have to put the sub in the cubby hole as of 1/23/10. So I am trying to decide on the the proper speakers and sub for around $400 total. I guess I am most interested in the F12 and Energy Take 5's.
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post #2 of 59
1/19/10 at 12:46pm
Thread Starter 
I need to make a decision right away.
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post #3 of 59
1/19/10 at 3:50pm
tiny speakers, tiny sub jammed into an enclosure, giant room..... keep your expectations low!! it is obvious that you are compromising function for form right from the start, so keep your expectations aligned with your priorities.

the Energy ESW-V8 would meet your budget and space requirements:
http://www.wwstereo.com/website/ecom...product=ESW-V8

what I don't understand is, if you are building an addition, why can't you design the space more appropriately? isn't that the point of starting from scratch? what would be better is if you could dedicate a larger enclosure in the built-in to the subwoofer (or perhaps even two smaller enclosures for dual subs) and then have a box custom built to fit the dimensions of the space. Jamming a consumer standalone subwoofer into an enclosure really isn't ideal.
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post #4 of 59
1/19/10 at 4:08pm
I almost posted a response, but the more I thought about it, the more I feel you have put yourself into an almost impossible position. I really don't think this is going to turn out well.

Rethink your options. Even if you have to put a sub as a piece of furniture near the sitting positions. In a 17'x30' space, I also think your going to have issues with the Take 5s.

Maybe I'm just not understanding what you are doing, but a powered sub in a small closed space will also have heat issues. I think you need to look for an in-wall/in-ceiling sub, but that's going to cost you. You might also look to a local to build in a sub. Good luck with this.
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post #5 of 59
1/19/10 at 4:10pm
Give up.

Seriously.

Or re-marry.
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post #6 of 59
1/19/10 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac View Post

I almost posted a response, but the more I thought about it, the more I feel you have put yourself into an almost impossible position. I really don't think this is going to turn out well.

Rethink your options. Even if you have to put a sub as a piece of furniture near the sitting positions. In a 17'x30' space, I also think your going to have issues with the Take 5s.

Exactly my point. At least the good news is he has backed himself into a corner by forcing himself to make a last-minute decision under the gun!

I think you should abandon the sub in the enclosure (unless you are willing to build one custom) and instead look for an unobtrusive subwoofer that could double as an end-table or something. The Takes are going to have enough problems as it is in that giant room, hamstringing the subwoofer will only exacerbate that.
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post #7 of 59
1/19/10 at 8:39pm
Thread Starter 
Well I was trying to help design a system for someone else, and this is the only spot for the sub that they will allow so I'm going to have to make it work, mainly because there is no turning back now.

I left the floorplan over at there house I guess. The sub would be in the left corner with the left wall running back about 14-17' to the back wall which is about 11-13' wide (where the surround speakers would be). Now the room opens up to a dining room. So I'm guessing that adds another 12-14'. A hallway runs through the middle, back past the back surround speaker wall.

Are there any higher priced subs to consider? Micro subs?

Should I go with another 5.0 set of surround speakers to help the bass, rather than the Take 5's?

Thanks.
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post #8 of 59
1/20/10 at 5:12am
Thread Starter 
What about Audioengine S8

http://www.audioengineusa.com/s8_home.php

Is this sub any good?
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post #9 of 59
1/20/10 at 12:30pm
Thread Starter 
Any more help around here for some of the better small subs?
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post #10 of 59
1/20/10 at 12:49pm
Replace the front L/R speakers with good towers.

You will get better bass than you would with any small sub tucked into that little cubby-hole to overheat before it fails.
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post #11 of 59
1/20/10 at 1:03pm
Pricier small subs would include Sunfire .... MUCH higher price but also better performance. As already mentioned, ANY subwoofer will need to BREATHE so whatever you choose will need airspace surrounding it to keep it from burning up.

Bill C
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post #12 of 59
1/20/10 at 1:46pm
In other words, abandon the sub-in-the-cubbyhole idea!

It's cool that you are helping your friend out but this kind of last-minute decision isn't going to work out, I think you may need to rethink things. The Take Classics will be really stretched in a room that size, and it is VITAL that they be properly mated with a subwoofer to work properly. If you additionally hamstring their performance by having some awkward, compromised subwoofer situation, they are going to sound terrible.

Now, a lot of this depends on how much of an "audiophile" your friend is, many people will be delighted with the Take Classic. But he should NOT expect to be able to crank things up in a room that size and get full bodied HT ass-kicking performance.
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post #13 of 59
1/20/10 at 1:46pm
Thread Starter 
What kind of towers?

And obviously they aren't too concerned.
But really no suggestions.

I mean is it all or nothing here? (Actually now that I think about that question, it seems like some type of basic, quintessential question that you guys are probably all to familiar with? One of those things that is in the back of every audiophiles mind, that they are trying to best. Or maybe its just me.)

Anyways...Come on...bring it...I need your help...I'm getting internet search overload with bringing this whole project together. (I planning on making the receiver the Pioneer ah-1019-k) running a BJC series 1 45 feet, ect,ect.
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post #14 of 59
1/20/10 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

What kind of towers?

What is the highest that the 5.0 budget can be pushed to?
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post #15 of 59
1/20/10 at 1:51pm
I don't agree that you need towers, especially if it will screw up the aesthetics of the room for your friend.

Provided you can first settle the subwoofer situation and provide an adequate low end, you can have smaller monitor speakers all around and cross over the low freq's to the subwoofer. That is the point of modern bass management.

The problem is not the specifics, the problem is THE PROCESS. You are jumping into the middle, making last-minute decisions without thinking them through. For example, your question above, "What kind of towers?" is MEANINGLESS and impossible to answer without understanding your friend's needs, the room layout, the budget, the goals, etc.

So back it up a step, slow down, and think this through
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post #16 of 59
1/20/10 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I don't agree that you need towers, especially if it will screw up the aesthetics of the room for your friend.

Provided you can first settle the subwoofer situation and provide an adequate low end, you can have smaller monitor speakers all around and cross over the low freq's to the subwoofer. That is the point of modern bass management.

The problem is not the specifics, the problem is THE PROCESS. You are jumping into the middle, making last-minute decisions without thinking them through. For example, your question above, "What kind of towers?" is MEANINGLESS and impossible to answer without understanding your friend's needs, the room layout, the budget, the goals, etc.

So back it up a step, slow down, and think this through

I am a firm believer in bookshelves with a sub; it is what I have and generally what I preach.

But based on the requirements stated by the OP:
- huge room
- only one option available for a sub and it would house a maximum 8" sub (maybe a 10", but not likely)

I think his space needs a couple of subs, and neither of them can be located in the specified space.

What I said was, he would get better bass from decent towers than by placing an undersized sub and crippling it with restricted placement in a cubby-hole.

A drawing of the room might help - but given placement, size and budget constraints - the best possible suggestions are going to be the ones that will dissapoint the least

EDIT: OP, you really want to convince your friend to let the sub be out of that cubby-hole; then you can suggest a sub (or subs in future) that will fill the space. There really are some nice looking subs to put in the room.
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post #17 of 59
1/20/10 at 2:09pm
Hey mphfrom77 -

From one noob to another: although the post from batpig may sound a bit direct and "in your face", the advice these guys give here is spot on. The more information you can provide, the easier it will be to formulate a meaningful response. If you spend some time just reading the various forums here you will come to appreciate the wealth of information batpig, rick240 and other regular posters provide to those of us just getting our feet wet. And, there's a high likelihood that you will also find an answer to your question that's already been posted.

Just my 2 cents worth.
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post #18 of 59
1/20/10 at 2:14pm
Thread Starter 
I will try to get a pic up w/ exact dimensions

But that space IS the only place for a sub.
We can talk about the 5.0 speakers...I can do some recaculating of budget, but of course its more of the best for the money.

I've got dinner to eat and other stuff to do I'll be back hopefull with pic. Thanks!
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post #19 of 59
1/22/10 at 6:26am
Thread Starter 
Sorry I can't get a photo up.

I do have exact dimensions though. The space is an open room with a hallway in the middle sort of dividing it. The hallway starts on one side of the back surround wall, and runs back out of the rooms. If you are looking at the tv wall, it is on the left side of this space, left of the hallway/dining room.

It is a completely open space, but I am "concentrating" the speaker system just for the tv room space which is 15' 10"(tv to surround back) X 14' wide.
The whole space, though is 26' 9" X 15' 10", and the height everywhere is 9.5' tall. It will have hard floors. (which I have no idea what that will do to the sound, by the way)

I will be looking/searching for a stronger 5.0 system today (than the take 5's). Any suggestions would be greatly, greatly appreciated. Price is really important, but so is quality.

I still have to find a sub, today, for that space in the corner to the left of the tv. My uncompromising miniture dimensions (total-feet, grill, dials) for that are: h(15")Xw(12")Xd(13"). There will be a removable, vented metal plate on top of the sub area, with a wood/stone facade on the front of the built in "cabinet/shelf" that runs under the tv for that whole side of the room.

I will have my system picked out, hopefully by Sat. 1/23/10. I suppose I could keep researching the 5.0, but not the .1. I need to get that sub and whatever else (foam, footing, I don't know) in that space right away. I need help on that sub first and formost. I will be check stuff out and checking this post regulary. I really will appreciated suggestions but obviously do not feel obligated to help some random noob. I live in northern KY, btw.
I don't know, can this whole 5.1 speaker system be had $575?

Thanks in advance to any posters.
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post #20 of 59
1/22/10 at 7:05am
Everyone that has responded in this post is TRYING to help, but you don't seem to be listening because it isn't the answer that you wanted to hear.

Can a 5.1 system be purchased for $575? SURE!! ... but will it sound like you HOPE that it will? NOT a CHANCE!!!

Give it a shot anyway, listen, then let your friend decide if HE is hearing what he wanted from the system.

Good Luck,

Bill C
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post #21 of 59
1/22/10 at 8:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

I still have to find a sub, today, for that space in the corner to the left of the tv. My uncompromising miniture dimensions (total-feet, grill, dials) for that are: h(15")Xw(12")Xd(13"). There will be a removable, vented metal plate on top of the sub area, with a wood/stone facade on the front of the built in "cabinet/shelf" that runs under the tv for that whole side of the room.

To put a standard sub in that enclosed space will likely need a fan as well as vents (top and bottom for air flow). The only other option would be a passive subwoofer with an external amp.

Because the location and size are uncompromising - I do not believe there is any other solution. And that solution is definitely not in budget.

Here is a link to a Velodyne 10" passive sub, just 12 7/8 x 12 3/8 x 9 1/2 in (H/W/D). But the sub alone is $600, more than your total budget.

Here is a link to an 8" passive for $400.

You may be able to find something cheaper, or a DIY project.

But with a passive you still have to buy an amp.

I wish it was a prettier picture for you - but the reality is that to get any kind of HT sub effects using that small cubby-hole will require more budget for your sub than your full budget.

Which brings me back to the suggestion of getting 5.0 that can provide some bass.

This Cerwin Vega 5.0 will probably provide the most sound, including low end, for that big space, on your limited budget:

- fronts, VE-12, $200 (or go up to the VE-15 for $300)
- centre, VE-5C, $80
- rears, VE-5M, $200

Either that, or tell your buddy he has to up his budget by close to $1000 to get a smaller 5.0 and a sub in the cubby hole that will provide a decent HT experience.
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post #22 of 59
1/22/10 at 9:00am
IMO, I would just holdoff until you can do it right.

There is nothing worse than spending money on something you are going to have for years and being dissatisfied the entire time while wishing you had spent more and done it right the first time.
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post #23 of 59
1/22/10 at 9:15am
I think that's what we are all saying!

I don't necessarily think the guy needs to up his budget by a grand, you don't NEED to spend $1500 on an HT setup. If he isn't a big audiophile and he will mostly be doing "living room listening" at moderate volumes, he could be perfectly happy with a $600 5.1 setup as many others are.

The problem is:

1) making sure his expectations are REALISTIC about what he will get
2) his resolute stance towards putting a subwoofer in a cubby hole!

A 16' x 14' listening space is not necessarily too much for the Takes, IF YOU CAN SUPPORT THEM WITH APPROPRIATE SUBWOOFER(S).

I would make every effort to convince your friend to allow a subwoofer that isn't tucked inside of a cubby space. Urge him STRONGLY that it will be a disaster to put a commercial sub in there, that he will be throwing his money away. They make many tasteful, small footprint subs that won't look like a monstrosity in the room.

If he is resolute about it, let him know that you talked to some "experts" on the internet and they told you it wouldn't work, and the only solution is to have somebody who knows what they are doing install a custom sub project that is designed for the space.

also, can you tell us a little more about your friend's listening habits and expectations? Is he looking to put together a rocking home theater, or is he just going to be watching casually in the living room and wants something "better than the TV speakers"? can he tell the difference? His expectations are a very important piece of this equation.
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post #24 of 59
1/22/10 at 9:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mphfrom77 View Post

Sorry I can't get a photo up.

I do have exact dimensions though. The space is an open room with a hallway in the middle sort of dividing it. The hallway starts on one side of the back surround wall, and runs back out of the rooms. If you are looking at the tv wall, it is on the left side of this space, left of the hallway/dining room.

It is a completely open space, but I am "concentrating" the speaker system just for the tv room space which is 15' 10"(tv to surround back) X 14' wide.
The whole space, though is 26' 9" X 15' 10", and the height everywhere is 9.5' tall. It will have hard floors. (which I have no idea what that will do to the sound, by the way)

A picture (or napkin sketch) is worth a thousand words.
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post #25 of 59
1/22/10 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I don't necessarily think the guy needs to up his budget by a grand, you don't NEED to spend $1500 on an HT setup.

Maybe not a grand but close GIVEN the restrictions/requirements:
- large room
- wants decent 5.1 HT experience
- sub MUST be in cubby-hole

To get any kind of bass from that cubby-hole and not overheat the sub it will have to be a decent passive sub (at least 10") with powerful external amp. It would be nice to think that could be done for <$500, but I can't see it as less than $800 (and likely closer to $1000) just for the sub/amp.

Then add reasonable 5.0, for a 16x14x9.5 (and 31x14x9.5 if you consider the full open space) and that will be at least $300 and more like $500.

Gets close to $1500 awfully fast when considering stated constraints.

...unless something like those big Cerwin Vegas work for 5.0.

The big fix is to say that sub(s) can be out of the cubby-hole; but every response has been "if sub exists it MUST be in cubby hole covered by fake stone"
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post #26 of 59
1/22/10 at 11:36am
Thread Starter 
Front Center: Bic Formula FH6-LCR
http://www.bicamerica.com/showpage.p...pe=6&spkrID=83

front L & R, and rear L & R: Bic Venturi DV62si
http://www.bicamerica.com/showpage.p...pe=7&spkrID=38

and are these any good AV123 x-cs encore Center Loudspeaker - Moho Natural
http://www.**********//index.php?pag...mart&Itemid=37

I'm just going to have to over come the sub issue...
Hey the Bic Venturi V80 sub fits!
http://www.amazon.com/Bic-America-10.../dp/B00164BLZ2

http://www.bicamerica.com/showpage.p...pe=8&spkrID=42

How this set set up...its not purchased yet but would a ah1019k receiver be able to power this. I'm guessing it would. I would of course research it exactly (the receiver). I figure that could be the last thing purchased.

And no these guys just want sound...But I want to give them the best for the money. The sub stays where its at, unless they decide otherwise later. What would you have to lose with that setup I mentioned. That was probably the wrong question.

Anyways gotta go check on the CVega. Thanks for any suggestions. I am also taking directions on which sites to look at. Believe me, I'm doing the best I can. Thanks.
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post #27 of 59
1/22/10 at 1:20pm
Usually it is recommended you get a center channel speaker from the same set as the front speakers to get the best voice match. I tried using different models, even from the same manufacturer, and couldn't get it to sound right across the front sound stage. I removed the center and just use a simulated center. But that's no where as good as having a matched center.

If you are considering the x-cs for the center, you should look to get 5 and put one on each channel. Then you'll get looks and voice matching.

I would seriously look at the HSU HC speakers all around.
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post #28 of 59
1/22/10 at 1:24pm
Thread Starter 
Velodyne? What about the impact mini? Not the 10 or 12, but the mini?

http://www.velodyne.com/products/pro...6&sid=416u130g

still checking out the CVega.
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post #29 of 59
1/22/10 at 1:33pm
I remain concerned about any active subwoofer in the cubby-hole due to heat.

The Velodyne Impact-Mini has a 6 1/2" active driver and a 8" passive; that means one of them will have to be directed into the cubby-hole, I shudder at what that might do.

Without fans or something else for improved ventilation I think you should only be considering a passive sub in the cubby-hole; but in any event, any sub in there should only have one forward firing driver (IMHO , and I'm not an expert, just opinionated and expressive).
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post #30 of 59
1/22/10 at 1:33pm
Thread Starter 
QUOTE=ransac;17981924]Usually it is recommended you get a center channel speaker from the same set as the front speakers to get the best voice match.[/quote]

okay. what about the Formula FH-65B for the front L & R replacing the DV62si's up front and keeping the rest of that setup?

http://www.bicamerica.com/showpage.p...e=7&spkrID=114

can't tell if that took here it is again...

http://www.bicamerica.com/showpage.p...e=7&spkrID=114

Thanks!
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › ?Best small home sub for small dimension-enclosed shelf/cabinet;(h)14"x(w)11"x(d)14"?