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Is it worth it to even build a gaming PC considering consoles are holding the PC back

post #1 of 48
Thread Starter 
Let me explain what I mean....


I haven't been a PC Gamer since before the launch of the Sega Dreamcast. I used to play PC games before the Dreamcast hit the scene, but once the Dreamcast came out, I decided to basically give up PC gaming. I was tired of all the constant upgrades, and the Dreamcast looked just as good as current PC games (at the time of release). Then with the arrival of the PS2, Xbox and GameCube, I was basically able to avoid the temptation of going back to PC gaming.

Now, in 2010, I'm actually considering building a gaming PC, primarily because I think the home consoles aren't really giving me that "wow" feeling anymore, and with no new hardware on the horizon, my only hope for that "wow" feeling would be to return to PC gaming.

The biggest thing holding me back from building a gaming PC though, is that the gaming industry seems to be focused all around the home consoles, and PC gaming seems to be somewhat of an afterthought. It seems most of the developers are designing their games around the hardware constraints that the Xbox 360 and PS3 have to deal with, and they aren't taking much advantage of the increased power of state of the art PC's. They basically design their games with the 360 and PS3 in mind, and then try to port up to the PC. This is very similar to what happened in the PS2 - Xbox 1 era. Everybody designed their games for the underpowered PS2, and then ported them over to the Xbox. Even though the Xbox was considerably more powerful, it didn't really benefit much, because the game wasn't designed to take advantage of the extra power the Xbox had.

Is this same issue causing problems for PC Gaming? I honestly have no idea myself, cause I'm totally out of the loop when it comes to PC gaming. I have heard some PC gamers complain about this very issue. They were complaining that they spend all this money on the latest graphics cards, but they aren't getting any games to really push their cards, because the devs are making the games for consoles first, and then the PC version is somewhat of an afterthought, and all they really end up with is a bump up in resolution and texture detail. Sure, the increased resolution and texture detail is nice, but it is it worth all the drama of building a gaming PC for it? Or the cost?
post #2 of 48
For FPS's there really is no comparison for using a mouse and keyboard. It's simply a better experience. Build your PC, then play Crysis, the report back how you don't regret building a PC. If you don't like FPS's, RPG's and RTS games play exceptionally well on PC.
post #3 of 48
I see where you're coming from. But pc games, even console ports, do look better and control better than console games. I'm currently playing Dragon Age on my pc. I rented the Xbox 360 version before I made my purchasing decision and it controls much better on the pc. And the game does have better T & L on the pc. And of course you can have AA with pc games. Something consoles don't have.
post #4 of 48
It is a common complaint. I play on both consoles and a PC, and I think the increased resolution with better quality textures and anti-aliasing/anisotropic filtering is well worth it.

I'm a single-GPU user (currently using a GTX 285), and I appreciate being able to play most of the demanding games in such high quality at 60 frames-per-second. I'm not concerned over developers "not pushing the graphical envelope" on the PC.

On the PC, there are also the benefits of many games not requiring a disc in the drive to play (exe cracks often work for those that do, just make sure you have a legal copy of course), and making the machine about as quiet as you want it to be in a home theater setting.

I don't think there is any drama involved in building a PC today. It's not like the 90s and early 2000s when compatibility issues commonly came about due to poor drivers and operating system architecture.
post #5 of 48
I enjoy building computers.. It's expensive so I only build myself one every 4 years or so.. Also cs:s and tf2 are awesome on pc.. TF2 on 360 is fun but really sucks compared to the pc version. Plus there are mmo's.. Time crushing mmo's =)
post #6 of 48
PC devs are more worried about playing well on the widest range of machines out there, maybe even netbooks. (Battlefield Heroes)

Would you target 100,000 hard core pc gamers or 350,000,000 active facebook users?

Heck it's probably smarter to target iphone than pc these days...
post #7 of 48
Thread Starter 
One other thing I was wondering about in terms of building a gaming PC, is that I would primarily use it with two particular displays, both of which are basically 720p, so I wouldn't really be taking advantage of the boost in resolution that a PC can offer over consoles. I have a front projector with a native resolution of 1280 x 720, and I have a Plasma with a native resolution of 1360 x 768.

If I were to build a gaming PC, I would have to set the video card to those resolutions, and I guess the good side of it is that because I'd be running the game at a lower resolution, I could likely be able to turn all the extra effects on, but I had heard that the big advantage to PC gaming was that people with 1080p displays could run their games at a "true" 1080p resolution, rather than the upscaling that the 360 does. Eventually, I'll get a 1080p projector, and then a gaming PC would be a big advantage, but that could be a few more years from now.

On a side note: One of the big reasons that I'm interested in building a gaming PC is because my Samsung plasma is 3D Ready. The problem is that it will only work in 3D mode with something outputting a 1360 x 768 video signal. This rules out the Playstation 3, which is going to go Stereoscopic 3D crazy later this year when Sony releases their 3D Bravias. The only devices I can use in 3D with my Samsung plasma at the moment is the Xbox 360, and computers. I'd just use the Xbox 360 if they had more Stereoscopic 3D games, but they only have 2 right now. With a gaming PC, the way I understand it, there are special drivers that can allow almost "any" game to run in stereo 3D (with some obviously being more impressive than others). I could set my video card to output 1360 x 768, and be able to play a ton of games in Stereo 3D on my Samsung plasma, which is kinda a cool thing.
post #8 of 48
i'm almost in the same boat with you anthony1...

first about the resolution...even Modern Warfare 2 on the consoles is only running at 600p...so with your gaming pc, you can turn all the effects up and run tons of AA, and it will be running at 720p...trust me it will look much much better!

the main thing that has been holding me back is getting a good wireless keyboard and mouse setup for my living room. i've tried, a few RF's from logitech, microsoft, and kenningston...they have all left me wanting better...the mouse skips around, sometimes the keyboard looses signal...not fun when playing a FPS or RTS...

i have a logitech bluetooth mx5000 that i will be testing out tonight to see if it works perfectly...or at least good enough that it won't annoy me or cause me to cuss and throw it

thats about the best part of a 360 or ps3...the wireless controllers on them work great, and i love wireless in the living room.
post #9 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane HTPC View Post

i'm almost in the same boat with you anthony1...

first about the resolution...even Modern Warfare 2 on the consoles is only running at 600p...so with your gaming pc, you can turn all the effects up and run tons of AA, and it will be running at 720p...trust me it will look much much better!

the main thing that has been holding me back is getting a good wireless keyboard and mouse setup for my living room. i've tried, a few RF's from logitech, microsoft, and kenningston...they have all left me wanting better...the mouse skips around, sometimes the keyboard looses signal...not fun when playing a FPS or RTS...

i have a logitech bluetooth mx5000 that i will be testing out tonight to see if it works perfectly...or at least good enough that it won't annoy me or cause me to cuss and throw it

thats about the best part of a 360 or ps3...the wireless controllers on them work great, and i love wireless in the living room.

i use my 360 controller for all pc games (except dow II)

gears of war
batman arkhum
dirt 2
resident evil 5
call of duty

(by the way 1080 on my screen with these games are insane)
post #10 of 48
even crysis has support and pre-mapped keys for the 360 gamepad. Bluetooth keyboards/mice are actually pretty good so try that. I'm also trying out a versaspoint rf keyboard now that has excellent range but the keyboard itself is a little odd in how it's laid out.
post #11 of 48
I can't give up on PC gaming because of FPS's are so much better on the PC. Mice/Keyboard combo operate so much better than a joystick. Plus, I like building and upgrading PCs. I would like to play MW2 but Infinity Ward has screwed that game up so bad that I can't force myself to buy it. Hopefully, the porting of console games over to PC doesn't become SOP.
post #12 of 48
Get a decent PC and don't blink an eye. Consoles affect PC quality only in certain, specific ways, like how they gimped the max players in MW2. However when it comes to visuals, the PC is still able to flex its muscles PLUS it has the best control options at the moment (pad for action games, mouse+kb for precision games).

Mentioned above is Team Fortress 2, which is eons better on PC than the console versions. Mass Effect 2 just came out, and pretty much all agree that the PC version is the one to get if you have a choice.

For me, when it comes to FPS, RTS, and similarly controlled titles, I'll go with my PC if I have a choice. I'll also go PC for select games that are on both it and the 360 (I don't have one), but not on the PS3. I play everything on my 60" HDTV in 1080P, so it is a well rounded experience just having these two platforms. Get a PC.
post #13 of 48
Yeah build the gaming pc and enjoy the best of both worlds.

I couldn't live without my gaming PC or my PS3.
post #14 of 48
Thread Starter 
Ok, I have a couple more questions. If I do end up building a gaming PC, it will be located in my garage which has been converted into a theater room. That is where my current PC is located. I would want to use this gaming PC, on both my front projector setup, as well as my living room TV which actually has these 3D capabilities.

I'm guessing, to use it in the living room, I'd have to run a very long HDMI cable (around 75 feet), from the PC in the garage, up into the crawl space above the garage, thru the crawl space to above where the living room tv is, and then down. In addition to the HDMI cable, I would also need to run a usb cable the same way, to be able to use a controller. I've never been that into using keyboards and mice to play FPS's, so I would be willing to just use the Xbox 360 controller that's designed to work with the PC, and map my buttons to it.

Here are my questions regarding this:

1. How long of an HDMI cable can somebody run before they encounter issues with the length?

2. How long a usb cable can somebody run for use with a game controller, considering possible lag from the button presses?


Regarding the usb cable question, I have heard that there is this new adapter thing that can extend a usb cable via a Cat5e cable. Basically it's usb on one end, and usb on the other end, but in between you connect it with a Cat5e cable. I'm wondering if somebody using one of these cables would be able to not need USB repeaters or anything like that?
post #15 of 48
Yep- my boys ( 12 and 14 ) and I enjoy both PS3 and PC gaming. They both have strengths and weaknesses. I just got a pretty high grade PC - with a 5770 Ati video card that should be kickin' on my 54" plasma. I like the PC games more than the boys- but they really enjoyed Halo 2 and Battlefield 2142 on PC. Now they are into mw2.
post #16 of 48
Read any review of any multi-platform game and 99.9999% of the time, the PC version destroys either console version.

Plus, the hardware cycles now are WAY farther apart than even 5 years ago. A solid system lasts up to 4 years now, whereas in 2002-2005, it was obselete and useless within a year.
post #17 of 48
I have a older gaming PC (Q6600, 4gb ram and an 8800GTS) and can run lots of games at 1080p with max settings. I also have a PS3 and XB360.

If a game comes out on the PC I get it on the PC. The big thing no one has mentioned yet is mods! I'm playing Dragon Age and the mods are fantastic.

I use a USB over Cat5e extender to use a hardwired Logitech G15 and Logitech G9 on a home made lapboard. The one big downside I've encountered so far is lots of PC games have small font sizes. I have to move my computer chair closer to the TV to read some of the text on some games. That said the kb+mouse + mods and better graphics make playing games on the PC a no brainer for me.
post #18 of 48
i've done a bit of testing for the mx5000 bluetooth keyboard and mouse, so far they are working great, if there is lag in the response, i can't tell where it is...much much better experience than then the RF 2.4ghz i've tried...

one problem i have, i got so used to playing FPS's on either the 360 or the ps3 and yesterday when i finally tried out the MW1 demo, i was looking at my keyboard to make sure what i was hitting for like melee, and crouch...man its been too long

i agree with the text being smaller on some pc games...but so far i'm liking my choice to going back to pc gaming rather than xbox 360
post #19 of 48
I do both, but if I have a choice play it on PC.

Even the worst console ports tend to look and control better on a (more powerful) PC. The main thing that tends to suffer in bad ports is menus, interface, lack of options, etc. But even when a game is multi-platform like DragonAge, the good devs will make sure it's properly adapted for PCs.

Worst case scenario is you'll see a delayed release trend ala Batman/Assassin's Creed 2 - consoles first, then a month or two before a PC release. The good thing about consoles becoming more like PCs is it's cheaper to develop a cross platform game (and that includes PCs).
post #20 of 48
You pose an interesting question that made me think a lot (the first one, sorry I arrived late).

The consoles of today are holding the game technology back, and maybe just because the plug and play console crowds are getting larger and getting up to speed. Of course by the time new console hardware comes out in 2014 or whenever, PC's will be ridiculously more powerful than the current console hardware (except for new motion control capabilities of course). So the question then would be, what if a company took it upon themselves to develop an updated and optimized gaming HTPC "console" product ...

A Gaming/HTPC "Console" would be Shangri-la right ? Then first roadblock is content, and getting others to jump on board. But what if the content was new and current AO content that the current console guys cannot play ? Would love to hear any thoughts or comments on this type of approach. Is there interest in AO gaming or other AO content in a console product like this? If there are a few responses, I will start a new thread, but I thought this was a great topic.
post #21 of 48
About the long HDMI run: even at 35', issues can start cropping up, and often you need amplifiers or something of the sort. There is a solution to run HDMI via a pair of Cat6 cables - see monoprice.

PCs no longer need to cost huge bucks - a machine that will crunch games very well - especially on 720p - will easily last 3-4 years as is and will be upgradable for a big boost later on can be built for $600-800. A gaming PC can also work as an HTPC - a repository of all your movies, music, photos, streaming ANY content available on the Internet - not just limited to say, youtube and Netflix, work as TV DVR. If you are in the mood for some light diversion, you have access to every single flash game you can find on the 'net. Waxed nostalgic? Load up an older favorite and in most cases, it'll play. I am right now replaying Baldur's Gate. Emulators available for PC can let you play older PS, Nintendo and arcade games. Try out games with downloadable demos. Make an account on Steam and you can buy games that you immediately download and can play without a trip to store, and without needing a disc. Want to add more legs to that game? Look for the mods. Oblivion not only looks loads better on PC, the free mod availability is just amazing, sometimes adding whole storylines to the main game.
Controllers for PC also don't stay in one place - Check out devices OCZ NIA. Who knows - by 2014 We'll be able to control PC games with actual thoughts (NIA rather relies on your facial muscle movements).
post #22 of 48
I have an HTPC (i7/5870)/PS3 and 360.

With the $20 PC addon from microsoft all my 360 stuff works on the PC

Bottom liner is this: If you get a 5770 -5970 you will get supersampling of gmaes NOT supporting the DX10 DX11.

You Can play Crysis in 1880x1020 (or whatever to cut my 73" Mits overscan to 0%) with SUPERSAMPLING or do EDGE DX10.

It is STUNNING

Mass Effect is stunning. Hell, even my wife could EASILY tell the A/B switch.

So for me:

i5/i7+4-7GB/Win7/ATI 57xx-58xx
HDMI to 7.1
Media Center

All is good.

For the "exclusive titles like Halo, I will keep using my XBOX or for last FM
For Blu-ray the PS3 and EXCLUSIVE like say God of War or inFamous (incredible).

So holding back? Maybe. But DX11 wil be in some cool cool games (Batttle field BC2/Dirts2/Metro 2033). The resolution, textures, and supersampling is worth it IF you play on a BIG SCREEN (mine is 73" sitting 7 feet away) or a large monitor with cool 7.1 headphones.
post #23 of 48
DX11 should be everything that DX10 was supposed to be. I am VERY looking forward to game that are optimized for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR40GwRtFyw
post #24 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post

I have an HTPC (i7/5870)/PS3 and 360.

With the $20 PC addon from microsoft all my 360 stuff works on the PC

Bottom liner is this: If you get a 5770 -5970 you will get supersampling of gmaes NOT supporting the DX10 DX11.

You Can play Crysis in 1880x1020 (or whatever to cut my 73" Mits overscan to 0%) with SUPERSAMPLING or do EDGE DX10.

It is STUNNING

Mass Effect is stunning. Hell, even my wife could EASILY tell the A/B switch.

So for me:

i5/i7+4-7GB/Win7/ATI 57xx-58xx
HDMI to 7.1
Media Center

All is good.

For the "exclusive titles like Halo, I will keep using my XBOX or for last FM
For Blu-ray the PS3 and EXCLUSIVE like say God of War or inFamous (incredible).

So holding back? Maybe. But DX11 wil be in some cool cool games (Batttle field BC2/Dirts2/Metro 2033). The resolution, textures, and supersampling is worth it IF you play on a BIG SCREEN (mine is 73" sitting 7 feet away) or a large monitor with cool 7.1 headphones.

History will repeat itself over and over. Games made for ultra high end machines with the newest features won't sell because the hardware is not out to the masses. EVERYONE had the Crysis demo so they could look at it in all its splendor while it chugged away at 6 frames per second but only a few hundred thousand, worldwide, actually bought the game to play because they had a machine powerful enough to play it.

I dont think that consoles are "holding the PC back" but I think they are doing a fair job of keeping things from going completley uncontrolled like the PC was doing through the late 90's and into the early 00's. Remember having to upgrade your video card every three months because something faster came out? I do. I never had to worry about my Saturn, Dreamcast, PS1, or N64 not playing the current games like I did with my PC. I had a Voodoo in fall of 1996, then I had to have a Riva128, then I had to get a Voodoo 2, then I had to get another Voodoo 2, then I had to get a Riva TNT, then a Riva TNT2, then a Geforce256, then a Geforce 2 in 2000.... all to play the latest and greatest games as we went from the Glide API and OpenGL to DirectX7 and everything in between.
post #25 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Favelle View Post

DX11 should be everything that DX10 was supposed to be. I am VERY looking forward to game that are optimized for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR40GwRtFyw

Rem you will need a powerful vid card to support all the features of Dx11. Right now only the ATI 5850, 5870 and 5970 would be rec. Also I have that bench and yes it does look good Dx11 over Dx10, but IMO when you are in fast action game like most FPS you will not be standing around looking at how pretty the rocks are. Frame rate is still what is most desirable and Dx11 features like tessellation (sp?) and ambient occlusion are major frame rate killer.
post #26 of 48
I "got out" of PC gaming. I could afford to build and maintain a very nice PC, but I don't really want to anymore, as the perceived benefits don't really matter enough to convince me to spend all the extra money. $1000 for a midrange PC is still an awful lot of money, and that PC needs to be maintained (a lot more than you'd think, from prior experience).

Not to mention, there are more than enough games on the consoles to keep me busy forever.

IMO it's worth building a PC if:

1. You are really unsatisfied with the IQ the current gen consoles are putting out - if you really don't like MW2 at 600p or whatever, then it might be worth it.

2. You really like PC specific genres - Most of these genres are geared towards lower-spec machines (MMO, strategy, etc.), so it wouldn't even be that expensive. Of course, that is not true i fyou are a hardcore flight sim or race sim guy. The price tag on good kit for that stuff is bonkers.

3. You just like the hobby of building a PC - perfectly legit, many people do it.

A lot of the other benefits are a wash IMO.

Quote:


So the question then would be, what if a company took it upon themselves to develop an updated and optimized gaming HTPC "console" product ...

First of all, the modern consoles really are "optimized gaming HTPC console products." If you look at their hardware and capabilities, they are just custom branded, locked-in PCs. Second of all, the structure of the PC world could just not tolerate a system like this floating around from Dell or whatever. Growth is driven by new product launches in the PC space, whether that launch is a high end i7 or a new Atom.

Not to mention the consoles at launch are heavily subsidized. That $400 360 at launch was as capable as a PC 3 times the price. MS was making that money up by selling software. That's not how games are built and sold on the PC. Dell or whoever can't demand a cut of every game sold. So they would just be taking the financial hit on each piece of hardware for the hell of it.
post #27 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing View Post


IMO it's worth building a PC if:

1. You are really unsatisfied with the IQ the current gen consoles are putting out - if you really don't like MW2 at 600p or whatever, then it might be worth it.

Check!

Quote:


2. You really like PC specific genres - Most of these genres are geared towards lower-spec machines (MMO, strategy, etc.), so it wouldn't even be that expensive.

Check! However, many of the new RTS's can be pretty graphically intensive.

Quote:


3. You just like the hobby of building a PC - perfectly legit, many people do it.

Check!
post #28 of 48
I've been going back and forth on this forever as well. I can justify having a 360 and a ps3 but the pc just doesnt have enough games to justify the purchase...at least for me anyway. I realize the pc will always have better graphics and thats what I want but I just dont know if its worth the price of admission. I like mods and everything but idk if i can say the same about the community. When I did pc game the cheating was everywhere and made most things unplayable. Not that the ps3 or 360 community is much better people wise...but the cheating seems to be a hell of a lot less.
post #29 of 48
If just for bang for the buck, just a top end PC video card costs more than 360, PS3. PC gaming is more like a hardware hobby than gaming. PC gaming is slowly dieing many will say that is untrue, retail stores are showing less and less PC games and more console. PC gaming will only be for hardcore gamers and will become a niche market. PC will always look better and have more flexibility but at a high price. If you think Bio shock 2 or MW2 will play smooth on pc that costs the same as console you must be living under a rock. I'm saying gaming, If you want say a flight simulator than a PC is the only way to go.
post #30 of 48
pc gaming can be cheap, most people have pc's in their houses already. you don't need a power house cpu or video card. throw in a 60-90 dollar video card and you can play almost every game at 720p or more.

and steam offers deals each week and most of the time at huge savings

but i guess most people don't have pc's hooked to their tv's
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