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floor insulation:dricore, delta-fl, or ... nothing

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Greetings HT aficionados,

i can hear you thinking "Oh, no, not another insulation question"

before you get bored, i would like to say that I have searched extensively this forum, and other forums for insulating basement floors

i know about dricore, delta-fl, etc

but i still wanted to bounce an idea off you. i heard someone recently questioning this whole idea, that there should be something with "dimples" on the floor so that if there is any water/moisture, first it won't damage the floor, and second it will dry off and it won't contribute to mold, etc.

here is the question. What is that force that will help evaporate the moisture/water? Air? In order for air to dry off something wet, it has to move. What will make the air move? Basements are the lowest point in a house and there are no drafts there. I might be wrong, anyone?

so, here is my idea. OSB or plywood boards glued to the concrete floor and to each other, and then the laminate flooring on top. Glueing the boards to the concrete will definitely prevent the water/moisture to collect under.

why will this not work?

thanks very much for your time

mart
post #2 of 20
...because moisture will rise up through the concrete surface and have nowhere to go excpet to get sucked up by the OSB or plywood.

AND if you get a 1/2" of water or so in there, do you have any idea how hard it will be to pull up that glued down OSB/plywood?

I'm pretty sure all of the manufacturers of the subfloor you are talking about indicate that you should leave about a 1/4 inch gap around the edges for airflow.

To test for any moisture, tape a piece of tin foil (and by that I mean seal it all the way around with duct tape) about a foot square to the floor and leave it for a couple of days. If there is any moisture on the tin foil, you'll want to put down a sublfoor for sure.

Even then, it's a good idea. I don't think you'll find anyone here who has done it has regretted.
post #3 of 20
go with a sub floor, but instead of "Dricore" (way to expensive for a large area). And go with something called "Platon" Flooring. way more affordable.
post #4 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by DungeonX View Post

go with a sub floor, but instead of "Dricore" (way to expensive for a large area). And go with something called "Platon" Flooring. way more affordable.

+1 for the platon subfloor. Used it in my build and very pleased with it.

Regards,

RTROSE
post #5 of 20
if you have moisture problems then you want a subfloor... if no moisture, move on and slap down whatever flooring you will be using.
post #6 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrocious View Post

if you have moisture problems then you want a subfloor... if no moisture, move on and slap down whatever flooring you will be using.

There is more to consider than just moisture when deciding to do a sub floor. Temperature is also a concern to think about. Cold will "soak through" quite a few flooring options making the basement "feel" colder. I considered several things before I put my subfloor in. Price, temperature control, moisture, and the "feel" to the floor.

I can tell you that I have not regretted putting in the Platon/OSB. I have a very comfortable floor that helps keep my basement warm, and dry and it actually feels like the rest of the house.

Regards,

RTROSE
post #7 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

There is more to consider than just moisture when deciding to do a sub floor. Temperature is also a concern to think about. Cold will "soak through" quite a few flooring options making the basement "feel" colder. I considered several things before I put my subfloor in. Price, temperature control, moisture, and the "feel" to the floor.

I can tell you that I have not regretted putting in the Platon/OSB. I have a very comfortable floor that helps keep my basement warm, and dry and it actually feels like the rest of the house.

Regards,

RTROSE

Agreed! but also consider your ceiling height... subfloor was definately not an option for my room. I had 7'0 to start... after the ceiling was installed and carpet and pad, i was down to about 6'10". Adding a subfloor you can lose another inch or more.
post #8 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrocious View Post

Agreed! but also consider your ceiling height... subfloor was definately not an option for my room. I had 7'0 to start... after the ceiling was installed and carpet and pad, i was down to about 6'10". Adding a subfloor you can lose another inch or more.

Excellent point! I too considered the loss of height but thought loosing an inch or so was, in my application, a reasonable trade off. The product is approximately 1/4" and then I used 5/8" OSB so my overall loss was 7/8" of head room. However in vertically challenged spaces every inch can count so this is something one would need to consider if head room is at a premium.

Regards,

RTROSE
post #9 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

+1 for the platon subfloor. Used it in my build and very pleased with it.

Regards,

RTROSE

x2 - wouldn't do it different in mine either
post #10 of 20
Quote:


And go with something called "Platon" Flooring. way more affordable.

Sure is. I just orderd Dricore to replace what I had, and it's gone up about .25/sf. Which doesn't sound like much except that it translates to $1.00 per sheet. And I ordered 220 sheets. I was waffling between Dricore to match what I had originally and Platon / Delta-fl. Guess I should have gone to one of those.
post #11 of 20
Has anyone tried redguard? Basically turns into "plastic" when rolled on and can fill in cracks and resists water from coming up.

What would be the disadvantage?

I did this and a 3 in 1 moisture padding solution which per "everyone" was overkill, but not very expensive

Thoughts?
post #12 of 20
Would love to hear about anyones experience with the redguard too.
post #13 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by DungeonX View Post

And go with something called "Platon" Flooring. way more affordable.

Lots of people are recommending Platon. Anyone care suggest a good place to purchase it? My local supplier (southeast Pennsylvania) is asking $286 for a 500 sq. ft. roll (8'x65') whereas a real quick google search shows a supplier selling the same roll for $205 w/ free shipping. A Canadian supplier on ebay is selling a roll for $79.99, but shipping costs are prohibitively expensive.

Obviously, there is a great disparity in pricing.

Can anyone suggest what they paid for their Platon and where they got it from. Even better if one could recommend a Philadelphia area supplier.

Thanks,

Ken
post #14 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by kengorman View Post

Can anyone suggest what they paid for their Platon and where they got it from. Even better if one could recommend a Philadelphia area supplier.

I can't help you in the way of Philly suppliers as I am in Illinois.

I got my roll of Platon from Menard's for around $150-$160 for the same size you are looking for. (They also sell a smaller roll for around $60)

If you don't have a local Menard's, check at similar home improvement stores (i.e. Home Depot, Lowe's, etc.)
post #15 of 20
I got my delta-fl from my local Lowe's store. I couldn't be happier with it.
post #16 of 20
Got mine from menards.. $44 for the 44.5"X50' rolls and $144 for the 8'X65' rolls. Heres a list of suppliers in PA:

PENNSYLVANIA
Delaware Valley PolySteel
1005 Sackettsford Road
Ivyland, PA 18974
Contact: Will Schoenleber
Tel: 215-598-1689
ICF: PolySteel
Fry's Plastic
560 Rabbittown Road
Pennsdale, PA 17756
Contact: Stacey Fry
Email: muncytrans@aol.com
Tel: 570.546.7122
Fax: 570.546.7093
Fry's Plastic (East Branch)
Route 209
Kresgeville, PA 18333
Contact: Barry
Tel: 610.681.5500
Fax: 610.681.6449 Glossners Concrete
Box 292, R.R. #1
Beech Creek, PA 16822
Contact: Clifton Glossner / Jesse Glossner
Tel: 570.962.2564
Fax: 570.962.3445
ICF: Blue Maxx
Whispering Pines ICF Supply
114 Schiebel Road
Butler, PA 16002
Contact: Bill Hauck
Tel: 724-504-4699
Email: wpicfsupply@zoominternet.net
ICF: BuildBlock
Your Building Centers in the following locations:
Altoona
2607 Beale Avenue
Altoona PA 16603
Contact: Dan Bartley
Tel: 814-944-9436 Bedford
113 Mann Street
Bedford PA 15522
Contact: Russ Dalton
Tel: 814-623-8167
Bloomsburg
145 E. 9th Street
Bloomsburg PA 17815
Contact: Joe Lozak
Tel: 570-784-4445 Dubois
24 Parkway Drive
Dubois PA 15801
Contact: Rex Read
Tel: 814-371-2880
Everett
State Street
Everett PA 15537
Contact: Gerald Snyder
Tel: 814-652-2145 Huntingdon
200 Allegheny Street
Huntingdon PA 16652
Contact: Jeff Tressler
Tel: 814-643-2120
Lewiston
10434 US Hwy 522 S.
Lewiston PA 17044
Contact: Scott Price
Tel: 717-248-0121 Lock Haven
317 Bellefonte Avenue
Lock Haven PA 17745
Contact: Chip Yost
Tel: 570-748-6750
Milton
536 S. Front Street
Milton PA 17847
Contact: Brett Corbin
Tel: 570-742-9681 Muncy
150 W. Water Street
Muncy PA 17756
Contact: Dick Moon
Tel: 570-546-3108
Phillipsburg
516 N. Front Street
Phillipsburg PA 16866
Contact: Rick Ackerman
Tel: 814-342-4670 State College
1120 E. College Avenue
State College PA 16801
Contact: Doug Olson
Tel: 814-238-4971
Sunbury
RR#1 Box 237-D
Sunbury PA 17801
Contact: Paul Arner
Tel: 570-286-4538 Williamsport
280 Arch Street
Williamsport PA 17701
Contact: Fred Lorson
Tel: 570-326-4151
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post #17 of 20
Please note that delta/platon work on a very diff theory than dricore. Dricore wants a 1/4 expansion joint and possibly vents so the floor can breath and dry. The downside is that mold can grow on the floor underneath if ventilation is not good enouph for quick drying.
Delta and platon are a vapor barrier w the concept is that it creates a "moist" area directly above the concrete, thus equalizing the moisture level between the concrete and the air above it and preventing the continual transfer of moisture from the cement floor to the dryer household air.
Delta recomends seeling all joints w moisture prooof tape and putting caulk in any punctures in the product from drilling or nailing. Although it is not in their instructions on the phone they recomend using low expansion foam around the periphery. this theory is supported by building science. buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-003-concrete-floor-problems?full_view=1
post #18 of 20
also Delta sells in lowes as a special order and if you search online you can get a 10% moving discount coupon

Special order number is 132387
post #19 of 20
redguard per instructions is to not to install it over surfaces that will see reverse hydrostatic pressure

the manufacture if called states

the membrane can handle hydrostatic pressures < 10 psi on a concrete floor.

However
1) The membrane will eventually fail if continuously exposed to moisture. He noted an occasional wetting (couple times a year at most) in an area from prolong rain should be ok.

2) This comment doesn't apply to moisture migrating up through a crack. The hydrostatic pressure in this case is too high within the area of the crack.
post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan94 View Post

I got my delta-fl from my local Lowe's store. I couldn't be happier with it.

Ditto.

-sc
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