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David Lynch's 'DUNE' BD - Page 2

post #31 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

The "weirding modules" were an invention by Lynch.
The reason was DL didn't think audiences would buy into an advanced civilization (capable of galactic travel) thousands of years in the future would rely on hand-to-hand and stabbing weapons combat as its primarily form of warfare.
AND he was right.

It also seemed to me that Lynch was going for a literal portrayal of the idea in the book that Paul's Fremmen name had become a 'killing word'. And again (in my opinion), Lynch was right in doing this for a science fiction film.

I've read alot of science fiction. I think Frank Herbert's book is 'ok', and I've always been mystified by the near religious following it has generated. I much prefer Lynch's film over the book.
post #32 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by coati858 View Post

But those are the same people who regularly cough up movies like "Aztec Alligator" and cancel "Farscape." I don't expect ANYTHING good from them.

I'd like to think David Lynch aspires to a higher standard.



Well, there's more than one thing the audience didn't buy about Lynch's Dune. **coughticketscough**


Oh, if only we could have seen the Jodoworsky/Giger version.
post #33 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

It also seemed to me that Lynch was going for a literal portrayal of the idea in the book that Paul's Fremmen name had become a 'killing word'. And again (in my opinion), Lynch was right in doing this for a science fiction film.

I've read alot of science fiction. I think Frank Herbert's book is 'ok', and I've always been mystified by the near religious following it has generated. I much prefer Lynch's film over the book.


Sacrilege!

I am a big fan, and read it many times when I was considerably younger, and thoroughly enjoyed it.

I recently reread it, and it has taken on new meaning and significance. With the current world situation, you realize how much research FH did.

When did you read it? Give it another read.

Scary.
post #34 of 215
LOL. I read it about 10 years ago. It was enjoyable, just not on my top 10 list.
post #35 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

It also seemed to me that Lynch was going for a literal portrayal of the idea in the book that Paul's Fremmen name had become a 'killing word'. And again (in my opinion), Lynch was right in doing this for a science fiction film.

I've read alot of science fiction. I think Frank Herbert's book is 'ok', and I've always been mystified by the near religious following it has generated. I much prefer Lynch's film over the book.

I just threw up in my brain. Ten lashings for you sir! ^_^
post #36 of 215
I've got to agree with sharkcohen on this one. Dune, the novel, is an enjoyable read but it's a pretty lousy piece of writing. Herbert deserves a lot of credit for originating a lot of ideas that would become sci-fi mainstays, but he wasn't much of a storyteller. His characters are two-dimensional at best, his plots are convoluted and haphazardly constructed, his prose is dull and dreadfully overwritten, he employs an obscene amount of internal monolog for exposition and redundant explication, and he seemingly couldn't write a page without feeling the need to interject some profound adolescent philosophy.

Lynch's Dune justifiably gets a lot of flack, but let's be honest: the book isn't much better. It's just easier to follow because the second half hasn't been gutted out of it. Both are a lot of fun, but high art they ain't.
post #37 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Clemons View Post

Oh, if only we could have seen the Jodoworsky/Giger version.

It would have been a disaster. While he had great ambition, Jodorowsky wanted to severely change/rewrite the story to the point Frank Herbert completely disapproved with his ideas. Ridley Scott may have done something interesting with Dune, although I'm now of the opinion that Dune is a nearly unfilmable book because so much of it happens internally rather than externally. While there are things I like about the miniseries, I favor Lynch's film.
post #38 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

It also seemed to me that Lynch was going for a literal portrayal of the idea in the book that Paul's Fremmen name had become a 'killing word'. And again (in my opinion), Lynch was right in doing this for a science fiction film.

I've read alot of science fiction. I think Frank Herbert's book is 'ok', and I've always been mystified by the near religious following it has generated. I much prefer Lynch's film over the book.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_D View Post

I've got to agree with sharkcohen on this one. Dune, the novel, is an enjoyable read but it's a pretty lousy piece of writing. Herbert deserves a lot of credit for originating a lot of ideas that would become sci-fi mainstays, but he wasn't much of a storyteller. His characters are two-dimensional at best, his plots are convoluted and haphazardly constructed, his prose is dull and dreadfully overwritten, he employs an obscene amount of internal monolog for exposition and redundant explication, and he seemingly couldn't write a page without feeling the need to interject some profound adolescent philosophy.

Lynch's Dune justifiably gets a lot of flack, but let's be honest: the book isn't much better. It's just easier to follow because the second half hasn't been gutted out of it. Both are a lot of fun, but high art they ain't.

Man, a tough crowd tonite....
post #39 of 215
Sorry, I'm more of the David Brin, Vernor Vinge, space opera type *shrug*
post #40 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwisniski View Post

The Third Stage Fan Edit puts all of the extended and most of the deleted scenes back into the movie with Virginia Madsen's original opening and narration, it really gives a feel for what the movie could have been.

Thanks for the heads-up on the existence of the fan edit. I never realised so much additional material was available and it makes Dune so much more interesting.

A tragedy that copyright has been perverted to its current state, allowing artworks to languish (and deteriorate) in studio vaults and be lost to public enjoyment, all for the sake of profit or politics. There are legions of fans willing to be creative for free, if only the sources were made accessible.
post #41 of 215
I thought the HD-DVD version of this movie looked great, but I couldn't get more than half way through before turning it off. My memories from seeing this in the theater when I was 19-years-old must have been correct. Boring as hell. Glad Lynch gave us much better.
post #42 of 215
Sci Fi channels Dune and Children of Dune are some of my favorite DVD's. I like the old dune movie too, but it left alot out. Sci-Fi's children of dune being my favorite.

The SciFi's version should be easy to put in high def, was recently shot (around 2000).

The kids I really liked, James Mcavoy has went on to be in several very good movies. Susan Sarandon made a great "bad queen".

I have Dune (1984) on HD-DVD. Thats good enough for now unless they put out a seamless branching version of both theatrical and extended cuts. Director should stop being a baby about it, the movie was good too. It's what got me into Dune saga to begin with.
post #43 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_D View Post

Blah,blah,blah,blah,blah but let's be honest

Ok, let's.
Frank Herbert's Dune is a certified classic.
The fact that you don't like it is entirely irrelevant, except to you.
post #44 of 215
I never said Herbert's Dune wasn't a classic. I didn't even say that I didn't like it. In fact, I do like it. I said it was a fun read, but like sharkcohen, I just don't consider it the work of brilliance that some do.

Dune is an incredibly divisive film, and it's divisiveness almost always comes to the forefront of any discussion of the film, including this one. My comments were relevant because a) many of the attacks people throw at it stem from the original source material, and b) I wanted to back someone up who was being disparaged for being so meek as to say he didn't get the fanaticism surrounding the novel.

I didn't say anything about the novel that hasn't been said by a thousand critics before me. A classic can still be flawed. Contrary to most internet discourse, there are shades between "absolute genius" and "crap." Herbert was a mediocre writer who had an incredible imagination, and that imagination was enough to overcome any of his other deficiencies to strike a chord with millions of readers. He deserves a lot of credit for that.

If you want to refute my criticisms, engage them, but don't just dismiss them outright. Otherwise, just ignore them. This is could be a great forum for discussion if people didn't get so sensitive and resort to name calling, shut-downs and mockery.
post #45 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_D View Post

I've got to agree with sharkcohen on this one. Dune, the novel, is an enjoyable read but it's a pretty lousy piece of writing. Herbert deserves a lot of credit for originating a lot of ideas that would become sci-fi mainstays, but he wasn't much of a storyteller. His characters are two-dimensional at best, his plots are convoluted and haphazardly constructed, his prose is dull and dreadfully overwritten, he employs an obscene amount of internal monolog for exposition and redundant explication, and he seemingly couldn't write a page without feeling the need to interject some profound adolescent philosophy.

Lynch's Dune justifiably gets a lot of flack, but let's be honest: the book isn't much better. It's just easier to follow because the second half hasn't been gutted out of it. Both are a lot of fun, but high art they ain't.

I always felt that the characters were designed to be steely and emotionless. I always thought that was one of the cool things about it. Even in high school I found nothing difficult in the book in it's plotting, so I find it surprising someone would lay the claim that it's convoluted. Sure, the book had a lot of balls in the air, but again, I LIKE that. ^_^ The best thing about the book were the word wars people would have during a 'casual' dinner. The prose was hardly typical, a perfect match for the mood the book had created and never felt overly verbose.

Or

"I know nothing comparable to it except Lord of the Rings." - Arthur C. Clarke

I do like that you didn't write "it sucked" and left it at that. Nothing's perfect, but some come closer to people's specific tastes than others. :-)
post #46 of 215
The book definitely does not suck, and I don't think anyone is saying it does.
post #47 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

The book definitely does not suck, and I don't think anyone is saying it does.

? A misreading maybe?
post #48 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirpie View Post

? A misreading maybe?

Nah, I was agreeing with you and making sure people didn't think I was saying the book sucked.
post #49 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

Nah, I was agreeing with you and making sure people didn't think I was saying the book sucked.

I was gonna say. Call of the pitchforks, tar and feathers then. :-P
post #50 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

It also seemed to me that Lynch was going for a literal portrayal of the idea in the book that Paul's Fremmen name had become a 'killing word'. And again (in my opinion), Lynch was right in doing this for a science fiction film.

I've read a lot of science fiction. I think Frank Herbert's book is 'ok', and I've always been mystified by the near religious following it has generated. I much prefer Lynch's film over the book.

Almost exactly my sentiments too.

The film does not feel too unfaithful to the book in my opinion. There was also nothing quite like Dune when it came out : at a time when everything else was aping star wars. Even now it feels like a genuine work of sci-fi and is riddled with lots of really evocative imagery and ideas. It does feel a little clumsily executed but the first half of the film is very engrossing.

I do think the film was very close to having been a masterpiece.
post #51 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Clemons View Post

Oh, if only we could have seen the Jodoworsky/Giger version.

I can't imagine that making a profit at the box office.
post #52 of 215
I just love any science fiction work in general where the environment of the SF world is consistent and well represented. Its flawed, sure, but at least it gives you some weird things to see and its a lot better to watch in high definition where you can see the details of the environment..
post #53 of 215
Love the book and the film, even if both are flawed works
Christ, if some of you think Dune the book is convoluted, try 'God Emperor Dune'
post #54 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

Sorry, I'm more of the David Brin, Vernor Vinge, space opera type *shrug*

Good selection. I'd also include Orsen Scott Card, Dan Simmons, Greg Bear, Ben Bova, Poul Anderson, and Philip K. Dick in a short list of top SciFi authors. I'm sure others might include Asimov and Clark too. Card, Brin and Simmons are damn good storytellers.

As for Hebert, I've read better, but it still is decent and certainly epic. I actually enjoy the continued series penned by his son and Kevin Anderson, especially the Butlerian Jihad prehistory. I prefer hard science fiction and find that these provide more of that than the political/religious/ecological undercurrent of the Hebert Dune books. Dune is good and certainly a classic, but I do prefer certain other works even more.

As for the Lynch film, I thoroughly enjoy every time I watch it. I think it captures a lot of the essence of the novel and is able to make an entertaining viewing out of what is arguably "an unfilmable novel". IMHO Lynch did a good job and should be proud of his work, in spite of and especially because of the difficult environment in which he had to work.
post #55 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tspeer View Post

Sci Fi channels Dune and Children of Dune are some of my favorite DVD's. I like the old dune movie too, but it left alot out. Sci-Fi's children of dune being my favorite.

The SciFi's version should be easy to put in high def, was recently shot (around 2000).

The kids I really liked, James Mcavoy has went on to be in several very good movies. Susan Sarandon made a great "bad queen".

Sadly, the first Sci-Fi Dune production is not likely to ever be brought to Blu-Ray due to the fact that none of the VFX or post work was done in HD and there isn't even an HD master of it so far as I know since it's never been shown in HD as far as any records show. They would have to redo all the VFX work on that to get it ready, not to mention, rescan the negatives in order to redo the green-screen shots and create a viable digital master to use for refinishing the film. Children Of Dune, on the other hand, is 100% ready to be released on Blu-Ray since it had a full digital HD pipeline. That production was shot on Sony F900 HDCAMs (Just like Attack Of The Clones) and all the VFX were done at 1920 x 1080. All they need to do is encode the digital master material for Blu-Ray release, do a sound mix for Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD, and it's a done deal.
post #56 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

I've never bought into the claims that the Sci-Fi miniseries was more "faithful" to the book. As I mentioned earlier, it completely throws out the entire first 1/3 of the book. It also misinterprets almost all of the major characters. Paul is not supposed to be such a whiny, annoying, petulant brat. And that whole Princess Irulan "girl power" storyline comes from out of nowhere and has no basis in the novel whatsoever.

Say what you will about the way that Lynch condensed the story, he got all of the major characters and their motivations right.

It's been about two decades since I read Dune (what can I say, I'm more of an Arthur C. Clarke fan myself) but to the best of my recollection I thought the miniseries covered most of the major beats of the first third of the novel: Paul being tested by the reverend mother on Caladan, his conversations with his father, Leto sending Duncan ahead to scout out allies, the migration to Arrakis, the reveal of the Harkonnen plan, the attempt on Paul's life, and the betrayal by Yueh. I even recall the miniseries touching on the more socio-political aspects such as the dinner that Leto holds. Though again I haven't read it in ages so I'm sure there's stuff I missed.

The miniseries also has some fun sequences from the book like Feyd's attempt to kill his uncle and what he must do to atone that the book never touched on.

Yeah, Irulan is about 180 degrees opposite from the book and some of the outfits do make you cringe; the whole show also has a slow, leisurely pace to it so you definitely have to be in the right mood to watch it. And Children of Dune was a serious disappointment to me (condensing two books into one miniseries was a bad mistake).

On the other hand I don't have to put up with scenes of boils being lanced and heart plugs being pulled. Don't get me wrong, I like David Lynch's version, but goes a little overboard in places. There's plenty of room to enjoy both versions.
post #57 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirpie View Post

"I know nothing comparable to it except Lord of the Rings." - Arthur C. Clarke

A.C. Clarke compared Dune, the novel, to LOTR? Was he sober?
post #58 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDP View Post

It's been about two decades since I read Dune (what can I say, I'm more of an Arthur C. Clarke fan myself) but to the best of my recollection I thought the miniseries covered most of the major beats of the first third of the novel: Paul being tested by the reverend mother on Caladan, his conversations with his father, Leto sending Duncan ahead to scout out allies, the migration to Arrakis, the reveal of the Harkonnen plan, the attempt on Paul's life, and the betrayal by Yueh. I even recall the miniseries touching on the more socio-political aspects such as the dinner that Leto holds. Though again I haven't read it in ages so I'm sure there's stuff I missed.

Just as it's been a while since you last read the book, I haven't watched the miniseries since it was broadcast. However, unless I'm misremembering, it begins with the Atreides already en route to Arrakis. The entire Caladan section of the novel was skipped over. Hence my complaint.
post #59 of 215
The BIGGEST probelm I had with Lynch's DUNE was all the voice-overs. It just became so annoying, either stating the obvious or just plain repetitive ("Is he the One?", "Could he be the One?" "Am I the One?" "Is it the spice?" "Does it have something to do with the spice?" "It must be the spice" ad infinitum)

I'd like the film much more if they eliminated all of those "thought-balloons."
post #60 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

The "weirding modules" were an invention by Lynch.
The reason was DL didn't think audiences would buy into an advanced civilization (capable of galactic travel) thousands of years in the future would rely on hand-to-hand and stabbing weapons combat as its primarily form of warfare.
AND he was right.

It's been a very long time since I've read the books (back when there were only three books), but I do remember the detail that they did have advanced personal weapons at one point in that future timeline. However, the interaction between a "ray gun" and the defensive shields used to deflect them would be something akin to a nuclear bomb going off. Tactical fire fiights under those conditions don't produce many survivors, hence the "technical digression" to hand to hand combat. Explain it properly to your audience and they'll buy into it.

The problem with Dune (as will be the problem with Foundation, which I've heard is also in the works), is that a novel like this is so big and rich the challenge of getting it on the screen in any way even close to resembling the story you've read is overwhelming.
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