ATI HD 5000 Series Known Problems (5870 5850 5770 5750 5670 5570 5450)

OK so the 5000 series definitely has some problems especially with HDMI audio, but I and others have worked around them for the most part, and sometimes fixed them. [There's several of us who had been waiting for these cards for a while and have followed their progression since the beginning. You might wanna pay extra attention to what renethx, vladd, SamuriHL, Tulli and other "olds" from the original thread have to say (sorry if I forgot someone!)]

If you don't understand some terms, please search for them in order to keep this post as short and clear as possible. I will keep updating this post with other people's contributions (esp. Tulli, I hope, cause I know practically nothing about fixing EDID!).

All this is tested on Windows 7 64-bit, it should be the same on 32-bit and maybe Vista. If you got XP you might have some more trouble (you probably won't be able to bitstream HD-disc audio at all). I think it's time to let XP go.

Original thread pertaining HTPC use.

First of all, the Realtek HDMI driver is recommended as opposed to the ATI HDMI audio driver that comes with the Catalyst installation. After accepting, download the ATI HDMI Audio Device in red fonts. Current version is 2.39 as of 2010/02/06. The other ones (usually higher, newer versions) are for the Realtek analog motherboard devices. This is about the most common mistake people make. The main difference between these two drivers is that the Realtek one doesn't suffer from the "silent stream bug".

[2010/02/14] The Realtek driver is now at version 2.42. ricabullah points out that there is a problem with the both the 2.39 and 2.42 drivers with DVBViewer.

[2010/03/12] There are other small differences. Go below (next post) to see the details please.


OK so the most common problems are:

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1) No Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD (or both) bitstreaming to an AVR that should be capable. FIXED!

This is most probably due to an EDID error. You will need to override your monitor's driver with a driver with its EDID information modified.

Tulli is the man for this, and many people have already benefited from his EDID modifications. Start with Tulli's post below.

[2010/02/15] There have been so many requests for Tulli's patches that he opened a thread just for them. Go there for info on how to do the EDID overrides. Thanks Tulli!

[2010/04/29] As reported on Tulli's thread, this issue is fixed with Catalyst 10.4. -
2) Dropouts (or pops) with DXVA disabled. FIXED!

This was discovered at

this thread at Doom9. It happens with legacy DD and DTS but it might happen with other audio too. It is caused by Powerplay, an energy-saving feature that downclocks the GPU and memory when the card isn't being stressed. This is most likely a graphics driver problem (not an audio driver one). I'm not sure if it could be a hardware problem though, let's hope not.

The workaround is here.
 
[2010/06/16] This Powerplay issue is fixed with Catalyst 10.6. -
3) Channel switching (to/from fronts/rears/center) or crackling, horrible distortion. FIXED!

Channel switching happens when audio is set to

5.1 and higher than 48 kHz (96 or 192 kHz) and 24-bit in the Windows mixer, and in 16-bit 176.4 kHz. I don't get it in 16/88.2 or 16/96. Also happens when using WASAPI exclusive with content with equivalent settings.

When setting it to 7.1 and similar bit-depth/sampling-rate settings, there might be crackling and bad distortion, but I'm not getting this anymore. I'm on the 8.70RC2 drivers (presumably Cat 10.2 RC2), so that may have fixed it.

This is also caused by graphics drivers. Powerplay triggers it (see above #2 on how to disable it). Or you can also just set the windows mixer to 24-bit 48 kHz or any other unaffected mode.
 
[2010/06/16] This Powerplay issue is fixed with Catalyst 10.6. -
4) 23, 29 and 59 Hz revert to 24, 30 and 60 in CCC.

This is not a big problem. When you set it to 23, it will be 23 even though the number will show 24. There is a trick though. If you are switching form 23 to 24 or vice versa, it won't switch. You need to switch to something completely different first (like 59 or 60) and then back to 24 (or 23). Same goes for 29/30 and 59/60.

[vladd below

points out that it's a CCC problem, you can still change at will with the Windows interface (see his post if you don't know how).]

The next two aren't as common but I suspect it's because not many people use these options. If you do please leave a post confirming, thanks.
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5) When using CCC profiles/hotkeys, 23, 29 and 59 Hz aren't set.

Even if you save your profile after setting 23, 29 or 59, when you call up the profile (via a hotkey or otherwise), it will set the refresh to 24, 30 or 60 respectively. You have to edit the xml of your profiles like indicated

here. -
6) Win 7 Media Center won't work with 29 Hz.

I use 29i with MC because my TV can only apply reverse pulldown up to 1080i, so this is a rather unique case, not many are using interlaced. In any case, MC for me automatically changed to 30i. For all other rates (including 23 and 59) it would work OK. This can be fixed with this registry setting

Code:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SOFTWARE\\Microsoft\\Windows\\CurrentVersion\\Media Center\\Settings\\DisplayService

Change the

RefreshRate value to 29. This means though that MC will always change to 29 when opening full screen.

Side note: You can also erase that value to reset MC to not change refresh rates when opening (which will do if you set up your display for a certain resolution/rate within MC).
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[2010/03/04] 7) Pixel Format Output Problems.

For the past few days, there's been a lengthy and somewhat confusing discussion about the different Pixel Format (YCbCr, RGB Full and RGB Limited), that these cards offer. As of now,

this is the last post of this thread, and this the last on the subject on the main 5000 thread. You can go back a few days and see what's been going on. Basically, we have two problems:

- Pixel Format RGB Full in some systems is broken, it seems to output desktop colors at the same levels as Limited. For some others (like me) this doesn't happen and RGB Full and Limited work as expected (Full outputs 0-255 and Limited 16-235). We don't know yet if the display affects the cards' output, but we're trying to test that.

- Pixel Format YCbCr yields a greenish cast especially in the darker areas. This affects everything except video in the protected video path (PVP) such as bluray in the commercial bluray players (when playing from disc or ISO). For PVP video, it seems YCbCr is being output without conversion to RGB first, so there's no green cast. See the measurement graphs sotti posted in this thread, and here for a more visual representation of the problem.

There might be smaller problems for other people. Two things though.

First of all, none of these is resolved as of now, nor there are workarounds for the YCbCr issue or something that always works for the RGB issue. I'm putting this here cause I've been asked to by some people, but the information will be updated when we know more what's causing the RGB problem. The YCC problem seems to be straightforward, just a bad conversion.

Secondly, all this talk (especially the banding discussion therein) is not a problem everyone will notice, or everyone will care about. See if it applies to you, and if you're satisfied with what you're getting, then you don't have to worry about this.
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[2010/04/21] 8) DXVA profiles support limitations

ter9999 explains:

I will put some other information here that people ask me or let me know, not necessarily problems.

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Graphics Drivers Differences

Some people asked about this below. I haven't noticed anything change (for my uses which are mostly HTPC-related) at least since 9.11 through 9.12, 9.12 hotfix, 10.1 and unnamed version 8.70RC2 (probably 10.2 RC2), but of course others might know better.

The only thing I can say is that

newer cards usually don't let you install the Catalyst drivers that came out the same month. (Normally it should be that way, but Nimo below says that 10.1 doesn't tell you anything when installing on a 5670, it just doesn't install the driver, and Stardogchampion mentions that if you installed 10.1 by mistake you'll have to uninstall it before installing your specific driver.) It seems the drivers are cooked up about a month in advance, before release. So go to the ATI site, make sure to select your exact series of card, and download from there. There's usually a special download page for newer cards, like there is right now (2010/02/07) for the 5400 series.

[2010/02/08] Stardogchampion points out that for the 5670 there's no special page, and 10.1 doesn't work. Cybrsage says that 10.1 hotfix works for that card. You can always try the special driver for a newer card than yours, as well (in this case the 5450's).

[2010/02/11] The Catalyst 10.1 hotfix driver fixes gray screen and corruption issues, that at least one person in this thread has stumbled upon. -
HDMI Audio Drivers Differences

Realtek ATI HDMI Audio Device vs. ATI-provided HDMI driver (comes with Catalyst)

Like I said above, the Realtek HDMI audio driver (at version 2.39 right now) is recommended, at least as of now (2010/02/07). I think it's working almost perfectly, with only one glitch with ReClock and exclusive mode in which the driver sticks to the settings of exclusive mode after closing ReClock.

Besides the silent stream bug mentioned in the first post, the ATI driver can't do 24-bit or 32-bit audio with ReClock, only 16-bit. [updated] This is not as much a big deal as the silent stream thing though.

[2010/02/14] The Realtek driver is up to 2.42. There seems to be an issue with DVBViewer with both 2.39 and 2.42 drivers so if you're using that, you may have that.

[2010/03/12] ReClock now works with the ATI driver fully (24-bit padded to 32, WASAPI exclusive). TMT 3 build 170 now bitstreams, but only with the ATI driver. See here for some discussion about these problems, some might want to use the ATI driver, it's just a matter of "trading" bugs.

[2010/03/31] An update on the ATI driver. You can enable MC sounds if you set the Windows mixer to stereo. Any of the multichannel options have the MC sounds problem (need to disable or will get error when bitstreaming DD from TV) -
2D Performance Issues (Win 7 only?) Fixed!

I got wind of

this issue via this thread. I don't post it in the main post because I haven't read of the problem being noticed by anyone in the HTPC threads by themselves without having read the article. Seems to affect mostly CAD programs and graphic design ones like CorelDraw and Illustrator. The workaround doesn't seem too painful though, just disable Aero for those specific programs (instructions in the page linked) until ATI fixes the issue (they've said they would).

[2010/07/28] This issue was fixed with Cat 10.4 a while ago. -
Problem Comparison with Nvidia and Intel on HTPC w/HDMI Use (Or, Am I an Apologist? )

[2010/07/28]: Most of this doesn't apply to Nvidia anymore. With driver 1.0.9.0 my 9200m GS has the 7.1 back/side surround channel swap fixed, and the new GTX460 has full HD bitstreaming capabilities and HDMI audio in general comparable with the ATI 5000 series.

Well first of all, I'm not (I don't think so at least). Everyone who walks into a problem should contact ATI support so they know these are real.

But in any case, it's my opinion (though based on observation and other people's confirmation) that Nvidia and Intel right now are worse for HTPC and HDMI audio. Nvidia's HDMI audio implementation is not even up to par with the ATI 4000 series, which right now has WASAPI exclusive mode working pretty much perfectly (I think the bug with ReClock mentioned above is there too).

Nvidia actually can't do exclusive mode quite as well (several common formats are incompatible, last time I checked, renethx has a post with more detail). The silent stream bug has always been present, as well. Also, they've had a bug where in 7.1 systems, side and back surrounds are swapped. Worse, they fixed it with drivers and after a short while they broke it again, and that was quite some time ago already. Also, at least for laptops of my 9200m GS's generation, only 7.1 and stereo was available. No 5.1! That just shows how committed they are and how much thought gets put into this by them.

Also, a bit of history. Since the ATI 2000 series came out,

all ATI cards have had HDMI audio support (some needed a dongle). The 2000 and 3000 cards only had SPDIF-like support (stereo 44.1/48 and DD/DTS bitstreaming) but Nvidia never had that. To keep up, vendors themselves had to add SPDIF inputs so sound could be output like with their ATI counterparts, but required your own audio device and for it to have a coax or header SPDIF output. I don't know if any vendor added an actual audio device on the card, I never heard of that. So, for those two generations and part of the ATI 4000 generation, Nvidia never had HDMI integrated audio on their discrete desktop cards, not even SPDIF-equivalent.

Then came the low-end GT210 and 220 (and later the 240). These have 7.1 LPCM HDMI support, but seem to be plagued with the same surround swapping and the silent stream bugs (correct me if I'm wrong in any account here), same as the laptop and mobo devices (8200/8300, 9300/9400). So much for progress.


As for Intel, no 23, 29 and 59 support is probably a deal breaker for many in HTPC. Although I see some people happy with their Clarkdales. Probably if you're running 60 Hz only you won't notice much of a difference with 59.94 since the frames are shorter, but with 24 on 23.976 content, the frame repeat every 40-something seconds can be annoying. -
[2010/02/10] Info on the "Enforce Smooth Video Playback" (ESVP) Option

There's been a lot of talk lately about ESVP because of the Anandtech (and others) reviews of the

5450 and 5570. In there, Vector Adaptive (VA) deinterlacing gets disabled when ESVP is enabled. So the logical first question is "What does ESVP do, anyway?" and if you notice I specifically ask about this in the comments, and as it turns out, the forum poster (who I see now was an ATI insider as well) I referenced there was right. ESVP as confirmed later by the reviewer (see the page linked for the 5570 review) and even by a couple of AMD reps here and here, only disables certain processing on lower end cards. VA seems the first thing to go, but you don't have to enable ESVP for smooth playback.

As per the reviews, you will still be able to choose VA, and as long as you're not getting dropped frames or sync issues, the ESVP option won't make a difference. As one of the reps said, you can trade processing for VA. And many don't use most or all processing like Skin Tones, Brighter Whites, Edge Enhancement, De-noise, and the worst of all (to me), Dynamic Contrast.

[2010/02/13] Yesterday Anandtech re-confirmed what we already knew from the sources above, and added some useful info on the limits of the 5450 (at higher-than 1920x1200 resolutions though, so it won't affect most of us). I don't agree with the relative importance of the ESVP check and at least issues #1, 2 and 3 in the OP here though. -
[2010/02/17] Problem with idle clocks with HIS 5670 IceQ 512MB (model H567Q512)

klillevo and cybrsage report that their HIS 5670 512 MB cards are idling at 600 MHz instead of 157 MHz. I'd refrain from getting an IceQ until this is confirmed fixed. This card itself doesn't have anything over the reference 5670 (no overclock and such). More info here including links to other sources.

[2010/02/17]: Cybrsage edited his BIOS with Radeon BIOS Editor to fix this issue. If you wanna try it you can grab it here (thanks cybrsage!). -
[2010/03/13] GPU Scaling Locks Refresh Rate

As the title says, when enabling GPU Scaling (not to confuse with "Scaling Options" tab which has a slider for Overscan/Underscan--GPU Scaling is in the "Attributes" tab) users have reported their refresh rates locked to 60 Hz. Chances are you don't need to enable it if you got a modern HDMI HDTV.

Even though it seems bad, as you can see all the problems featured are fixable or able to be worked around. It's really not a big deal.

There are several advantages besides bitstreaming with the 4000 cards, like energy savings and consistent black levels. With the 5000 cards, a "dynamic range" (among other new options) setting appears in the Avivo section which lets you choose between 0-255 and 16-235 output).

Mine works at about 98%. No more gripes at all, the remaining 2% is acceptable.

By the way, Nvidia's HDMI implementation is worse, and its problems are not fixable at all. Intel? Can't even do 23, 29 and 59. So right now ATI is the least bad for HTPC, whether we like it or not. At least you can work around the worse bugs.

If you don't mind not having bitstreaming, then probably the best cards are still the 4000 series, for HTPC and HDMI audio.

Honestly I don't know of any differences (regarding HTPC at least, I don't know much about gaming) with the graphics drivers. Since 9.11 they all seem the same to me and my 5770. The only caveat would be that newer cards can only use the newer drivers.

ATI has said they will fix the EDID problem, but as of 10.1 (and version 8.70RC2, or unofficial "10.2" RC2) it doesn't seem to have been fixed. They have also said they will fix some 2D issues described in this article.

Thanks Tulli will add a link on the OP. One thing though, text in your post is not wrapping, maybe there's some formatting error?

It doesn't tell you a message that the driver is not for your product?

OK I added some info on the second post, thanks.

thanks, updated.

Interesting. Are you using exclusive mode or bitstreaming? What happens, and does it happen with all audio or just some formats? Usually default settings (other than bit depth/sampling rate) work, but some people change them and it causes problems in Media Center (will update the post later about that).

Thanks guys, updated the second post with this info. Stardog, see Cybrsage's post, or you can try the driver for the 5450. The 5600 series is there, btw, but you're right that it just takes you to 10.1.