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Panasonic HDC-HS700 & HDC-TM700 1080p60 cams - Page 6

post #151 of 3783
waheyyyyy!!! can confirm the camera is defo out here in UK now.

Well the SD700 model (without built in memory anyway).

Postman just delivered it about 10minutes ago UK version, I got it from elitegadgets for about 685ish delivered, tho saw a few sites selling for around a similar price (tho they were cheaper by about20quid if recall correctly)

daughters 2nd birthday today too so hopefully get a chance to get it out of box, and have a quick play with settings
post #152 of 3783
interesting.

took a couple of mins of test footage just in house etc.

Played through fine straight thru sound receiver to tv from the camera....pic quality seems good, though its quite a dark dull room so obv signs of grain etc.

Did 1 file at 50p and other file at 50i.

Now, oddly I've copied the files to the pc. Its only a comparatively slow amd 64 x2 4200 of which 1080p normally struggles like hell to play....BUT with the sample videos for download elsewhere (such as 20100317_141651 - the japan street scenes, and other such videas as the cat etc)......using VLC they play stutter as anything - like 1 frame every 5 seconds......in WMP they would play video ok but a little stuttery throughout, and with media player classic HC set to overlay, the playback would be smooth but in slow motion (presumably where pc isn't fast enough to play - fairly bog standard geforce 7300LE gfx card).

Now the odd part.

The filenames are 00000.MTS, 00001.MTS respectively.

They'll play in VLC and WMP with same usual issues of jerkiness.....but Media Player Classic HC...on the both files nothing plays at all...timeframe is shown but no movement or audio

If I then set the rendered to system default....on the 50p file I get picture....BUT its extremely stretched. full height of screen in full view mode but the left-right is about 3 inches wide. Also no audio.

Only difference I can see with these is that the other files are 60p on the net....and also noticed the net files have the m2ts extension instead of mts
post #153 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight Tboy View Post

waheyyyyy!!! can confirm the camera is defo out here in UK now.

Well the SD700 model (without built in memory anyway).

Postman just delivered it about 10minutes ago UK version, I got it from elitegadgets for about 685ish delivered, tho saw a few sites selling for around a similar price (tho they were cheaper by about20quid if recall correctly)

daughters 2nd birthday today too so hopefully get a chance to get it out of box, and have a quick play with settings


Can you try to test the new stabilization? I am curious if it is as good as Sony's.

Like on youtube there was a walking demo with a dude walking and walking down some stairs, it was really amazing test of the "old" CX505VE.

Could you do something similar?
post #154 of 3783
well as I powered it up, then doing what a typical kid does - spinning it round and speaking towards each speaker to test the surround

On the way downstairs to see the daughter, decided to give the camera a bit of a shake - not super violently or anything....but it did seem to still be really smooth still considering. The display does come up with messages about panning too fast, but seemed fine when viewing.

Must of course remember I am in no way a pro or even an amateur. I was given a DV camera off parents when they replaced theres, and decided to upgrade to this model. So I'm no expert on taking quality footage yet, just a point shoot and hope for the best kinda guy Will improve with time - shopping for a decent cheapish tripod now.

The DV camera never had much use from us really, as was bit of a pain to transfer tape through firewire etc, but this one I'm hoping to use a lot more - plus easy for myself and the missus to drag the files to pc and work that way.

I'd like to take some footage of outside too, but its bloody miserable weather here, dark cloudy skies and keeps starting to rain.

If I can, and can work out how to chop segments out etc and keeping as raw files, I'll try to get some footage uploaded somewhere. You'll have to excuse the mess if get some on....recently moved in, place is a tip and its a 2yr olds birthday lol

I've just created a vimeo account now, as think if I recall correctly I read that you can upload raw files there for download too. Also installing the software that came with the camcorder to see what it is like. I do have some very limited experience with Adobe Premiere about 10yrs ago at uni....so at least have a mild idea of what to do
post #155 of 3783
disk has installed now - needs a reboot but I'm now downloading an MTS file off vimeo to test that on pc.

Did notice when playing a jap m2ts file that was supposedly untouched....in properties of MPC HC it gives...

Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 1920x1080 59.94fps [Video]
Audio: Dolby AC3 48000Hz 6ch 384Kbps [Audio]
Subtitle [Subtitle]

Now when I try my own MTS file all I get is

Video: MPEG4 Video (H264) 16x64 [Video]
Subtitle: DVD Subpicture [Subtitle]



Now if I load the same files in VLC....for the jap M2TS I get....

Stream 1
Type: Audio
Original ID: 4352
Codec: a52
Channels: 3F2R/LFE
Sample rate: 48000 Hz
Bitrate: 384 kb/s

Stream 0
Type: Video
Original ID: 4113
Codec: h264
Resolution: 1920x1080
Display resolution: 1920x1080
Frame rate: 119.880119

For my own file I get....

Stream 1
Type: Audio
Original ID: 4352
Codec: a52
Channels: 3F2R/LFE
Sample rate: 48000 Hz
Bitrate: 384 kb/s

Stream 0
Type: Video
Original ID: 4113
Codec: h264
Resolution: 1920x1080
Display resolution: 1920x1080
Frame rate: 100


So the only difference is that oddly the 60p file says its 119.880119 and mine is 100? Sooooo..firstly why is VLC reporting double the frame rate? And any hints as to why MPC HC wont accept the files
post #156 of 3783
hmmmm.... problem number 1.

I've installed the supplied CD of HD Writer AE 2.1 and rebooted.

Now I'd already copied the files from memory card to the pc.

in the HD Writer AE program I've set the folder paths correctly, (and tried putting the vids in My Videos) but it can't seem to see any video files listed??? I've tried renaming the files to m2t and m2ts also but it still doesnt see any? (reloading hd writer AE each time).

Also tried the M2T file that I downloaded from vimeo taken from the camera and doesnt see that either.

Surely the program doesnt demand that they actually be pulled down directly from the camera too? (time to get them instructions out methinks)
post #157 of 3783
Vimeo is what I use and one of the reasons is because of the download feature. Unlike the Plus account that I got, free users can only upload around 500MB per week I believe.


I read on DVXuser that it's now shipping directly from Panasonic:
http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e...00000000005702
post #158 of 3783
right....

managed to get rid of the relatives for a bit now

Now this is weirder (well probably not but seems odd to me).

I decided to now take some more vids (including keeping the old ones)...and this time connected the camcorder to the pc. When do this the HD Writer software loads up....and allows to import it across to the My Videos folder

When it imports it, the files are renamed to m2ts instead of the MTS as they are on the card...but also there is a couple of additional files, presumably for the layout of the software....eg.. 20100322_115940.cont, 20100322_115940.m2ts, 20100322_115940.pmpd, 20100322_115940.tmb.

So 4 files for each of the video clips. So why on earth wont the software just see the mts files dumped manually into the vids folder I dont know?

Now the strange thing for me though......

When I load the 50p videos into MPC HC they now play (still slow motion but again thats prob the pc speed).....when I load the 50i files they still WONT play in MPC HC
post #159 of 3783
loaded the files into the HD Writer software and tried to play in there. They play fine within that......The video is a bit jerky but that is defo to do with cpu speed as it warns before playing that they'll be played at 17fps with skipped frames cos of my cpu speed....

Time to try some v basic conversion and then do tests to see what can and can't play in my popcorn a-110 player
post #160 of 3783
Camcorderinfo got a test unit in so they should be posting a review up soon.

The proof is that they have a couple of videos on YouTube that's currently being processed.

Motion 1080 60i Test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFuD8frQGyg

Stabilization Example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCQxbDLl-mk
post #161 of 3783
post #162 of 3783
Paulo I have a question...Since my MBP and FCP cannot play back the 60p footage smoothly and it will get all jerky, will i lose a lot of picture quality if I import the 60p footage into a 30p timeline?

So ProRes 60p in a ProRes 30p sequence. Will this look significantly worse or can I do this without a problem?
post #163 of 3783
well the software that comes with the camcorder is poop - other than basic transition, titles and cutting theres not much you can do with it.

You can join footage, but looks like you can only join matching footage...ie a 50p to a 50p - no cross format is allowed.

Also more annoyingly, as far as I can see you cannot seem to set it to convert the video....ie to convert from 50p to 50i, or bitrate change or resolution change.....I'd like to convert the 1080p50 file to 720p50 and see how that plays, as my 50" screen I cant tell difference between 720p and 1080i anyway. I do hate 24p though for movies, find refresh rate worse than the annoying motion pulldown on panning shots which always sticks out like a sore thumb to me.

I'll be getting adobe premiere installed tomorrow and have a bash at that - but not sure what the best program to use these days is in the HD world. Will also try sony vegas pro and see what the story is with that.
FWIW the 50i footage works pretty much spot on on a popcorn a-110 player.

The 50p footage will play, but out of sync and after about 10seconds the sound stops - a quick skip/pause/ffwd and sound comes back in but think its too much processing power for it.

Though I believe its probably more the fact that the popcorn player was playing in slight slow motion, it appeared to me that the 50i footage seemed better pq than the 50p. But in a poorly lit room too which could be factor as 50i would compensate more for that. Need a sunny day to go out and test Hopefully get good day tmw and take kids to the park or somewhere (orphanage!! I need a break!!)
post #164 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

Camcorderinfo got a test unit in so they should be posting a review up soon.

The proof is that they have a couple of videos on YouTube that's currently being processed.

Motion 1080 60i Test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFuD8frQGyg

Stabilization Example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCQxbDLl-mk

Comparing the stabilization footage to the older clip of the TM300, seems like they made some significant progress. Something about the panasonic solution, compared to the Sony(xr520v clip), looks more 'digital' to me, or that could just be the way YT is compressing it.

I applaud ccinfo.com for putting some objective test criteria around these aspects, i just wish there was a more real-world way to test stabilization. Unfortunately theres no way to calibrate a person to always walk and shake the same way with a camcorder.

The motion clip looks fairly identical to the tm300, so i assume it will get the same minor quibbles levied against it, placing it behind the sony and canon. I do wish panasonic had added a 24Mb 60i mode, since i grow more convinced daily thats whats keeping it from matching the canon in this regard.
post #165 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by theory View Post

Thanks for the link.

On p152:

Recording mode and
transfer rate

1080/60p: Approx. 28 Mbps (VBR)
HA: Approx. 17 Mbps (VBR)
HG: Approx. 13 Mbps (VBR)
HX: Approx. 9 Mbps (VBR)
HE: Approx. 5 Mbps (VBR)
Refer to page 147 for the recordable time.

Picture size

1080/60p: 1920k1080/60p
HA/HG/HX/HE: 1920k1080/60i

Thanks, I guess I missed the last line. So they are all 60i

Quote:
Originally Posted by pezgod View Post

st_o_p,

Theory is correct. You can also take a look here.

Panasonic.net

check out the chart of recording time.

From what I have gathered, everything is in 1080/60i Though there is a 24p mode, but it is still wrapped in 1080i. (i'm sure the manual covers that though)

That is my point - I went through the entire manual and didn't see anything about 24p. And I was looking for it - must be very well hidden
post #166 of 3783
The low light part of the video is at the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyjcH9JjLGE
post #167 of 3783
Quote:


Our motion test for the HDC-TM700. Shot at 1920 x 1080 with 60i frame rate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFuD8frQGyg

Camcorderinfo.com should have their full review posted soon.
post #168 of 3783
post #169 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffturn9 View Post

TrustedReviews Review:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/camcor...c-HDC-TM700/p1

They do not seem to be very impressed with the improvements....

I hope to see a comparison to Sony when it comes to stabilization and noise levels in low light...
post #170 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCQxbDLl-mk

Just comparing that against the one for last year's Sony HDR-CX500V, it looks like the Panasonic is better. I don't know how well that test represents real-world performance though.
post #171 of 3783
In this video of unboxing of the HDC SD707, the narrator points out the notice on the box about the Camcorder not being supported by Mac and or iMovie.
I would assume that 1080p 28Mbps which is not AVCHD compliant might not be recognized by iMovie 09. However, is there anything that is now known about this camera that would suggest that 1080i 17Mbps AVCHD would also not be recognized by iMovie 09.
Additionally, is it assumed that 1080p files could not be converted by software such as Voltaic HD or MPEG Streamclip?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUwYY...255&feature=iv
post #172 of 3783
The 60i mode should not be any different from last year's model.

I can't really give an answer to the editing on Apple software concerning 1080 60p although if you got the money, Premiere Pro CS4 will edit the 1080 60p files natively and you can also export to 1080 60p.
post #173 of 3783
The manual states that 60i video can be imported using iMovie but 60p cannot. I hope Apple is working on adding 60p support in the next version, which should be coming this sometime year.
post #174 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddt View Post

In this video of unboxing of the HDC SD707, the narrator points out the notice on the box about the Camcorder not being supported by Mac and or iMovie.
I would assume that 1080p 28Mbps which is not AVCHD compliant might not be recognized by iMovie 09. However, is there anything that is now known about this camera that would suggest that 1080i 17Mbps AVCHD would also not be recognized by iMovie 09.
Additionally, is it assumed that 1080p files could not be converted by software such as Voltaic HD or MPEG Streamclip?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUwYY...255&feature=iv

There is another thread about editing 60p footage in iMovie with some workarounds, originally written to deal with Sanyo 1080 60p camcorders, which have had the feature for about a year.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1142704
post #175 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sholle View Post

There is another thread about editing 60p footage in iMovie with some workarounds, originally written to deal with Sanyo 1080 60p camcorders, which have had the feature for about a year.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1142704

The possible snag I see is that the Sanyo files are regular MP4s whereas the files coming out of the TM/HS700 are MPEG-2 transport streams. Is anybody aware of a converter that runs on a Mac and converts those streams to MP4 without re-encoding the audio and video?
post #176 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBum View Post

The possible snag I see is that the Sanyo files are regular MP4s whereas the files coming out of the TM/HS700 are MPEG-2 transport streams. Is anybody aware of a converter that runs on a Mac and converts those streams to MP4 without re-encoding the audio and video?

could be - the Sanyo files loaded fine into iMovie09
post #177 of 3783
got Adobe Premiere Pro CS4 installed.....currently struggling to work out how to use it tho lol.

Anyone know what the best settings would be in order to encode my video into a typical HD mkv file at both 720 and 1080 settings? Or other optimal size/space compromise settings

Would like to make some samples of my original files at 720p25 720p50 1080p25 1080p50 1080i50 and try them out for compatabilty on my NMT players for playback picture comparison.

I do have it doing an encode at the moment, and for a 6minute video its taking 2hrs 30mins.....pretty sure I have settings and stuff too high at moment though and probably wrong lol

at the moment of Adobe Media Encoder, it is saying my current encode settings are (and I did try changing a couple of things as it tried to do stereo audio first)...

Video: PAL, 1920x1080, 25 fps, progressive
Audio: AAC, 384kbps, 48khz, 5.1 channels (can't seem to see dolby digital options?)
Bitrate, VBR, 1 Pass, Target 32.00, Max 40.00 (Mbps)

oh and output format I set to H264
post #178 of 3783
Setting it to an average of 32Mbps will definitely not be quick especially if your computer doesn't have a lot of horse power. Although it would be even slower, I'd advise you to do a 2 pass encode.
post #179 of 3783
oops yeah lol....I wasnt thinking straight - when think that the camera itself is 28mbps. Mind think tried to keep most of the options default.

Any idea what a typical mkv 4gb rip is set to use?

Had a sodding power cut anyway on our street so back to square one.

Also, need to find out how to keep the audio untouched too while testing as seems to want to default to stereo aac each time...and can't see a dolby 5.1 option (unless its the same thing?)
post #180 of 3783
Forget P-Pro or iMovie, or FCP, or Vegas...

Watch THIS:
vimeo: 10384127

Try THAT with any of the previously mentioned apps. Heck most can't even PLAY the footage let alone EDIT multiple layers of it.

btw... for those that don't know That was on a standard i7 920 with 6gb ram and GSO9600.... Not a cutting edge system.



Can't post urls yet.... opened account to show you guys this video.
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