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Panasonic HDC-HS700 & HDC-TM700 1080p60 cams - Page 8

post #211 of 3783
My TM700 was delivered this am, and is sitting at home while I'm at work. Unfortunately, I'm completely new to HD processing, so it's going to take a while to figure things out. My last camera was a Canon Vistura miniDV. I will be trying to figure out download, archiving, playback and editing for Mac, in addition to posting on sites like Vimeo and Youtube. Don't have Vimeo plus, and will have to find out whether it's worth it or not. It's going to be interesting.
I shelled out for overnight delivery, as I was not sure when it would be out, and was hoping to have it for my trip to Hawaii next week.
post #212 of 3783
I didn't want to pay sales tax or shipping so I have pre-ordered through Crutchfield. I asked them yesterday when they would have the TM700 in stock and they said they don't know.

You can get it now from the Panasonic site, but if you are cheap like me and don't want to pay sales tax and/or shipping you have to wait until the retailers get it.

BTW, with standard UPS Ground shipping and WA sales tax that would have added more than $91 to to the cost of the camcorder for me. Expedited shipping would cost even more.

I really want this camcorder NOW ... but I can't justify the extra expense.
post #213 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by pezgod View Post

I would imagine that vegas you'd just ad a video envelope and drop the speed to 50%, double the length like you said. Not sure about premiere...but I could play around with that tonight!


EDIT: Tried it out in vegas with the choppy water video (20100314_150853.m2ts) linked to earlier, and it looked pretty sweet!!

Excellent. Having the option of it playing at normal speed and at half speed while still looking fluid is awesome. I cannot wait to get one of these camcorders.
post #214 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddt View Post

I will be trying to figure out download, archiving, playback and editing for Mac, in addition to posting on sites like Vimeo and Youtube.

Definitely post back with your findings with regard to the Mac. In case you're interested, the two utilities I've been looking into for container conversion are MP4Box and tsMuxeR.
post #215 of 3783
Here's instructions online for doing slow-motion on a 23.976 time-line using Premiere. Their is also instructions for Final Cut but keep in mind that it's for 720 60p footage and you have to make sure that however you convert the native 1080 60p files, it has to be converted to 1080 60p.
http://digitalcontentproducer.com/af...25/index1.html

It's much easier with Premiere since 1080 60p gets inside no different than 1080 60i since it edits both natively.


Editing 1080 60p files on my laptop using Premiere CS4 is definitely not real time although it tries to be for the first few seconds. I wish that can last throughout the whole clip but in the bright side, when the footage is slowed down, the motion is smooth throughout.

I just turned one of the TM700 clips to slow-motion at 1080 24p and it looks very good. I hope I'll be able to find martial arts clips online in 1080 60p so I can see how it'll look once I convert it. Even better, I'll hope I'll be able to borrow one quickly because I have a lot of good ideas that I'll love to do and put online.
post #216 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

Vimeo is what I use and one of the reasons is because of the download feature. Unlike the Plus account that I got, free users can only upload around 500MB per week I believe.


I read on DVXuser that it's now shipping directly from Panasonic:
http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e...00000000005702

Just ordered mine Paulo earlier in the day. Should have it early next week. I'll compare it to my Sony XR500. It should be fun to see how it compares to my Z5, but that's a stretch!!
post #217 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

Here's a low light test in which he gradually increases the gain.
http://vimeo.com/10382771

The top videos are stabilizer tests.
http://vimeo.com/groups/native1920x108060pclips/videos

Standard mode looked excellent, but I see a bit of softening with active mode.
post #218 of 3783
My impression so far. This is a neat toy. Between work and trying to grind through the user manual, and qualifying that I'm a novice, really I haven't done much.
I'm going to have to get used to controlling the zoom. It is a little sensitive, and will take some practice to get a feel for the variable speed. So far I like the responsiveness of the auto focus and auto exposure. I've mainly left it set on iA. The auto white balance seems more accurate than my DSLR.
Some reviewers griped about the touch screen on the TM300. I have no complaints about this touch screen. It responds to my first touch.
The camcorder seems easy enough to use, though maybe a touch too light.
I've managed to connect to my TV which is 1080i, 720p, through the component cable. But the first bit of video I played was shot on what Panasonic calls HA setting, 1080i, 17 mbps. Haven't tried to play the 1080p stuff yet, but probably will not be able to tell the difference.
For Mac people, I was able to connect to my 24" Core Duo Intel iMac running Snow Leopard and iMovie 09. I was able to download the HA clips (17mbps) but the software didn't recognize the 28mbps clips, (or maybe I just didn't know how to do it). The imported clips were displayed in 4:3 format, even though taken in 16:9, and did not appear HD, in the viewer window, so i don't know what the final output will be like. iPhoto also recognized the device and I was able to import the few stills I had taken.
So I'm working on becoming familiar with this device, there is a lot to know.
post #219 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expletive View Post

Comparing the stabilization footage to the older clip of the TM300, seems like they made some significant progress. Something about the panasonic solution, compared to the Sony(xr520v clip), looks more 'digital' to me, or that could just be the way YT is compressing it.

I applaud ccinfo.com for putting some objective test criteria around these aspects, i just wish there was a more real-world way to test stabilization. Unfortunately theres no way to calibrate a person to always walk and shake the same way with a camcorder.

The motion clip looks fairly identical to the tm300, so i assume it will get the same minor quibbles levied against it, placing it behind the sony and canon. I do wish panasonic had added a 24Mb 60i mode, since i grow more convinced daily thats whats keeping it from matching the canon in this regard.

In comparing the stabilization performance of Sony CX50x and the Panny 700 - did you notice that in "active" mode there is a notable "cropping" effect when the sony is in active mode, but not the Panny???
post #220 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBum View Post

The possible snag I see is that the Sanyo files are regular MP4s whereas the files coming out of the TM/HS700 are MPEG-2 transport streams. Is anybody aware of a converter that runs on a Mac and converts those streams to MP4 without re-encoding the audio and video?

Okay, so I mentioned earlier that I imported 1080i/17Mbps files to iMovie 09 without any problem, but the 1080/60p files were not recognized. I thought that I could still archive by using iMovie's "Archive All" feature. How ever it seems that this only works on the 1080i files and not the 1080p.
How I know this, is that I deleted all the 1080i clips from the camcorder, and left only the 1080p files. When I do this, and there is nothing but 1080 clips, iMovie does not even recognize that the camcorder is attached, when I select "Import from Camera" When I select only "Import", and try to navigate to the .mts files containing my clips, they are greyed out and cannot be imported.
So it seems that iMovie doesn't recognize 1080p 28Mbps. I looked at the Sanyo link but it seems to be a different situation.
post #221 of 3783
Hi

Does anyone have a link to a 1080p50 clip straight from the camcorder without any postprocessing of any kind done to it. A good size one preferable. It needs to be the 50p PAL version.

I would like to test it out with my WDTV Live.

FYI the 60p clips mentioned earlier in the thread had audio problems with them in WDTV Live. As others described in software/hardware, there were some seconds with audio, then a period without audio. The video part worked flawlessly in WDTV-live.
post #222 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddt View Post

Okay, so I mentioned earlier that I imported 1080i/17Mbps files to iMovie 09 without any problem, but the 1080/60p files were not recognized. I thought that I could still archive by using iMovie's "Archive All" feature. How ever it seems that this only works on the 1080i files and not the 1080p.
How I know this, is that I deleted all the 1080i clips from the camcorder, and left only the 1080p files. When I do this, and there is nothing but 1080 clips, iMovie does not even recognize that the camcorder is attached, when I select "Import from Camera" When I select only "Import", and try to navigate to the .mts files containing my clips, they are greyed out and cannot be imported.
So it seems that iMovie doesn't recognize 1080p 28Mbps. I looked at the Sanyo link but it seems to be a different situation.

ddt, I'd be curious to see how you perceive the difference between the highest bitrate 1080i and the 1080p coming directly off the camera to the display.
post #223 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by JENC View Post

Hi

Does anyone have a link to a 1080p50 clip straight from the camcorder without any postprocessing of any kind done to it. A good size one preferable. It needs to be the 50p PAL version.

I would like to test it out with my WDTV Live.

FYI the 60p clips mentioned earlier in the thread had audio problems with them in WDTV Live. As others described in software/hardware, there were some seconds with audio, then a period without audio. The video part worked flawlessly in WDTV-live.

Go Here:
Vimeo
There's a few 50p and 60p clips in there.
post #224 of 3783
How can i download them 50p clips to play on my PS3?

Thanks
post #225 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

ddt, I'd be curious to see how you perceive the difference between the highest bitrate 1080i and the 1080p coming directly off the camera to the display.

This would be embarrassing to admit, but I tried a back to back comparison between 1080p and i, and I think that the p looked "nicer". That's not a very technical descriptor, and I don't really know what to look for, but maybe a little bit smoother and fuller. But then again, it might have been just me knowing I was watching p footage.
I would say that the i clips were very clear and sharp, but may have been slightly washed out.
One thing I will add, is that the mic is extremely sensitive. It picks up everything and is quite impressive.
I just wish I could get it off my camera on to my computer.
post #226 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddt View Post

Okay, so I mentioned earlier that I imported 1080i/17Mbps files to iMovie 09 without any problem, but the 1080/60p files were not recognized. I thought that I could still archive by using iMovie's "Archive All" feature. How ever it seems that this only works on the 1080i files and not the 1080p.
How I know this, is that I deleted all the 1080i clips from the camcorder, and left only the 1080p files. When I do this, and there is nothing but 1080 clips, iMovie does not even recognize that the camcorder is attached, when I select "Import from Camera" When I select only "Import", and try to navigate to the .mts files containing my clips, they are greyed out and cannot be imported.
So it seems that iMovie doesn't recognize 1080p 28Mbps. I looked at the Sanyo link but it seems to be a different situation.

I believe that iMovie 09 Archives the AVCHD file structure, but since the 1080 60p footage is not part of that structure, it isn't archived.

On the Sanyo, the 1080 60p footage is .mp4, and can simply be copied to the Mac, and played. Editing in iMovie is more complex, but there is another thread explaining that. On the Panasonic, it seems from your comments that the 60p files are .mts. You will need some third party software to deal with them.
post #227 of 3783
Hi there... im new here, i just want to buy a new Camcorder... someone could say me if does Panasonic HDC TM700 is better than Canon HF S11??... both cameras record to 1080p? or only Panasonic do that...
post #228 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by kizz200 View Post

Hi there... im new here, i just want to buy a new Camcorder... someone could say me if does Panasonic HDC TM700 is better than Canon HF S11??... both cameras record to 1080p? or only Panasonic do that...

Better for what purpose? Both do record at 1080p, but the Canon's progressive frame rate is 30fps whereas the Panasonic's is 60fps. The 60fps frame rate is really only advantageous for very fast action. Where the Panasonic really shine against the Canon is in low light performance.
post #229 of 3783
Guys, loving my TM700 so far...

But whats up with HD Writer 2.1? I record using the 1080p 60fps mode, but when copying the clips to my blu ray disk via my powerful PC, HD Writer always down converts the 1080p clips to 1080i,

Am I missing a setting or something? I want 1080p blu ray disks!!
post #230 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaztq View Post

Guys, loving my TM700 so far...

But whats up with HD Writer 2.1? I record using the 1080p 60fps mode, but when copying the clips to my blu ray disk via my powerful PC, HD Writer always down converts the 1080p clips to 1080i,

Am I missing a setting or something? I want 1080p blu ray disks!!

You can archive your video as a data file on a blu-ray disk at 1080p/60 but you can not create a video blu-ray ( Blu-ray specs max out at 1080i/60 or 1080p/24 but do not support 1080p/60.
post #231 of 3783
It may in the future since Panasonic is one of the major players in Blu-Ray.

We'll have to see if Panasonic adds 1080 60p to cameras that they'll be showing at NAB. Things will get very interesting if they do. Still, with the eventual release of the Scarlet, it would be a smart thing to do. It's already rumored that the successor of the GH1 will get 1080 60p. What we do know is that Panasonic is working on advanced cooling for a metal body and that can also be for 1080 60p because of extra chances of heating with that mode. The GH1 never had an issue with 720 60p recording unlike the Canon T2i and the 7D but I think because of those cameras Panasonic is being extra careful.
post #232 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by JENC View Post

Hi

Does anyone have a link to a 1080p50 clip straight from the camcorder without any postprocessing of any kind done to it. A good size one preferable. It needs to be the 50p PAL version.

I would like to test it out with my WDTV Live.

FYI the 60p clips mentioned earlier in the thread had audio problems with them in WDTV Live. As others described in software/hardware, there were some seconds with audio, then a period without audio. The video part worked flawlessly in WDTV-live.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pezgod View Post

Go Here:
Vimeo
There's a few 50p and 60p clips in there.

Thanx for the link. I tried the 3 50p files, among others this one: http://vimeo.com/10414600

They all play fine on the WDTV Live. The audio was fine all the way.
My TV is Samsung LE46B755 that plays 1080p50 fine.

But, having 3 clips in the same folder, and having the WDTV Live playing all 3 consecutively resultet in pauses of 4-6 seconds between clips, as the WDTV Live loaded the next clip.
Doesn't the TM700/SD700 store each taking - i.e. each press on the record button - as a separate file?

I would of course like to have all my video/takings from e.g. my summerholiday to plays continuously.
- Is this handled by some extra "control"-files that are stored also?
- or does the different takings need to be merged on a PC to do this?
post #233 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBum View Post

Better for what purpose? Both do record at 1080p, but the Canon's progressive frame rate is 30fps whereas the Panasonic's is 60fps. The 60fps frame rate is really only advantageous for very fast action. Where the Panasonic really shine against the Canon is in low light performance.

Better for Low Light Performance, so does Canon HF S11 still better than Panasonic?, because i want to records some Concerts n' Festivals... i just wanna get the best Low Light Performance...
post #234 of 3783
He's saying the Panasonic is better in low light. For your situation the Panny would be better.
post #235 of 3783
I don't think either of these will work but it worth a try if you have a MAC without Premiere Pro CS4.

Change extension to .mp4 of both the original MTS and the transferred M2TS version. Try both of them although you'll need a Windows computer to make the M2TS files since the TM700's software is only for Windows.

If that doesn't work than put both of those files through this program.
http://clipwrap.com/
If it works, it'll make an MOV files that you can put into the time-line

Last but not least, try to see if you can convert the files using CineForm.
Hopefully Apple fixes these problems.
post #236 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by adit View Post

You can archive your video as a data file on a blu-ray disk at 1080p/60 but you can not create a video blu-ray ( Blu-ray specs max out at 1080i/60 or 1080p/24 but do not support 1080p/60.

So...this archived disc will only then playback on a computer?
This will not be playable through the Blue-Ray player, so besides adding a computer to the entertainment center, there is no way to play the 60p TM700 recordings on my 1080p bigscreen?

That is very disappointing, I really wanted to get the TM700, but only being able to playback via another computer changes things bigtime, in that case, I'm going for the Sony


Rick
post #237 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich121 View Post

So...this archived disc will only then playback on a computer?
This will not be playable through the Blue-Ray player, so besides adding a computer to the entertainment center, there is no way to play the 60p TM700 recordings on my 1080p bigscreen?

That is very disappointing, I really wanted to get the TM700, but only being able to playback via another computer changes things bigtime, in that case, I'm going for the Sony.

There's a possibility that the Blu-Ray spec may be changed later to allow 1080/60p. The TM700 still supports 1080/60i, which is Blu-Ray compatible, and has some other features that the Sony lacks.
post #238 of 3783
Question for anyone that have the hard drive versions of these.

Can you copy straight from hard drive to SD card?

The reason i ask is that only have 16GB class 2 card and i want to go to some shops around London and collect some sample footage.

As i understand it you can only use class 4 and above.

Thanks
post #239 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBum View Post

There's a possibility that the Blu-Ray spec may be changed later to allow 1080/60p. The TM700 still supports 1080/60i, which is Blu-Ray compatible, and has some other features that the Sony lacks.

This is true, but you never know... Also it's a very small chance that older blu-ray players will get an update ( for many the hardware itself might not be able to decode 1080p/60.

The ATSC broadcast standard got an update to MPEG 4 profile 4.2 which includes 1080p/60 but Blu-ray (and AVCHD which is a "subset") did not.

Blu-ray got an update to 3D but it does not look like this includes a bump to profile 4.2 from 4.1.

I am also hesitant between Pany and Sony models. What I like on Sony is: Direct Copy feature ( USB host ) very important for me as I do not take a laptop with me when I travel, High resolution LCD and the viewfinder. Low light performance seem to be very close between the 2 (depending what you read you get either one or the other a little bit better).

Also Sony records at 24 mbit/s in AVCHD so you can get a standard Blu-ray at higher bit rate than with Pany.
post #240 of 3783
Quote:
Originally Posted by adit View Post

This is true, but you never know... Also it's a very small chance that older blu-ray players will get an update ( for many the hardware itself might not be able to decode 1080p/60.

The ATSC broadcast standard got an update to MPEG 4 profile 4.2 which includes 1080p/60 but Blu-ray (and AVCHD which is a "subset") did not.

Blu-ray got an update to 3D but it does not look like this includes a bump to profile 4.2 from 4.1.

You can also take video at 60p for archival purposes and convert it to high quality 60i in your video editing program for playback in current Blu-Ray players. 60p->60i conversion will come out quite nicely because your editor pretty much just has to throw out half the lines to make each 60i field. If the Blu-Ray spec is expanded to include profile 4.2, you'll have the full-quality archival footage to work with.
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