Panasonic HDC-HS700 & HDC-TM700 1080p60 cams - Page 84

Panasonic has released the:

HDC-HS700-K - Full High Definition 3MOS Hybrid Camcorder ($A 2099) and the

HDC-SD700-K - Full High Definition 3MOS SD Card Camcorder ($A 1499)

in Australia, which is a PAL country like the European countries.

But it has not released the HDC-TM700, which has internal flash memory as well as a slot for SD cards.

Is the flash memory of the TM700 worth having? Can it provide a back-up of files as well as extending memory capacity?

Andrew Gyles

I am considering either the Canon HF S21 or the Panesonic TM700. I can see from reading several threads that processing the native 24p from the Canon will be straight forward with virtually any NLE. Will I need to spend hundreds for a new NLE processing package in order to process the AVCHD 1080p/60p images from the Panesonic. I understand that the IQ is much better on this camcorder, but is the processing time/expense significantly more than the 24p. Is "it" worth it to go the 1080/60p routed with the TM700. Will the end user "see" the difference in image quality seen on a High Def tv when looking at the Canon S21 native 24p compared to the Panesonic TM700 1080/60p???? For me a big factor is the processing time/cost of the images. Is it worth it?

Sounds like you're fairly interested in the 24p framerate. If this is the case, then the 1080p/60 argument is a bit of a moot point. You can shoot in 24p with the Panasonic and get arguably better picture quality. Since the 24p footage is encapsulated in a 60i stream, you will need VoltaicHD ($35) to extract the 24p out again. Remember, the 24p footage is real. You just have to have some extra software (VoltaicHD) to get to it. With the Canon, you don't have to do this extra step, but you don't quite get the image quality either.

According to the manual, the camcorder is ready to record slightly faster if its using internal flash memory as opposed to the version with the HDD. Like a tenth of a second or 2.

Hi C3hammer and others-

Thanks so much for the heads up on Splash lite and GPU acceleration. I reinstalled Splash lite, toggled that off, and it really is a pretty good player. I think I will use that as my default.

Whats funny, is that for something thats supposed to improve performance, I always seem to be turning off Hardware and GPU acceleration and getting better results.

BTW, you may not have noticed it, but Splash clips off the first half second or so of any video it plays. If they could sort that out (it matter for what I do a bit), and introduce the on the fly player stabilization that Cyberlink has, it could be a real winner.

Thanks again for all your help.

If you want native 24p get the Canon. If you want 1080p60 get the Panasonic.

Do you just load in Shark007 and take their default settings? I installed it a couple of days ago, played around with a bit, but was eventually a bit concerned about the complexity to try any sort of custom settings.

1) Bub, did you play native mts-files that uploaded back to SD of camera?

2) Do you mean I should backup the whole structure of camera SD card to be able to copy them back in future?

3) Is it possible to play files on PC 1080\\50p and send them to plazma TV via dvi-hdmi cable?

Hey myg,
Here is what I think I know on the subject from experience first...

I videotaped to a memory card (as far as I know, I could have used the internal memory and then transferred to the external memory with the exact same results), removed the memory card and copy/pasted to my computer the entire folder system, DCIM, MISC and PRIVATE. I could then play the .MTS files (you only need the .MTS files for computer).

Next, I copy/pasted the entire file system back onto the memory card, inserted it into the 700 and played the footage just as if I never transferred the files. So, if you do want to use the 700 for playback of your video, you definitely will need to copy the entire file structure.

As far as number 3, I don't see why you couldn't do that. I'm in US and I would fully expect to be able to play native 1080 60p files on a laptop hooked up via HDMI cable to TV. Not sure why you are using HDMI-DVI cable unless your TV only has DVI input, but you will not get any sound unless you also use the 700's audio cable (but not 100% sure about the 700's audio out as I have no first hand knowledge about it).

Good luck.

I thought this camera could record on 24p (non-native) format? Is that true? is it the same as converting 60p to 24p? or is there an difference in quality between the two processes?

If you can shoot on 24p with the Panasonic, why do you need VoltaicHD to extract it?

becuase they save the 24p in a 60i 'container' (you need to reverse telecine it in order to get the 24p back)


I have to download (first find) some 24p in 60i footage from the tm700 to try out working with it

So the software provided by the camera does not do the pulldown? Why advertise 24p recording at all?

That's exactly right. The Panasonic captures real 24 progressive frames per second. However, the footage is packaged into a 60i stream (telecined). Voltaic HD correctly removes the telecine to get back to the 24 progressive frames. Even 4:2:2 chroma is handled.

http://www.shedworx.com/hd-information/24p

Hi, is there any possibility to get the edited footage back to camera for playback?

24p has been wrapped in a 60i stream for decades. Before newer televisions could handle 24p, broadcasters wrapped film shot at 24p in the 60i stream for broadcast. You're right though, with many new TVs easily supporting 24p, there is little reason to wrap the 24p in a 60i stream.

My previous camera was a Canon HF200, which did the same thing. I used VoltaicHD in that situation too. Canon has saved us a step and $35 in their new model line by shooting native 24p.

As far as I can tell, the default settings are very optimized allowing Windows Media Player to play almost any file I have thrown at it. You may have to go in to each tab (Mp4, MKV) and choose specifics but I cannot remember what i had done at the beginning. Has it helped?

That is a good question, and I really do not know for sure, but... I don't think you can do that because you need the original file structure that the 700 generates when you shoot video. And, once you've edited, even original 700 footage, you have lost the file structure the 700 requires to enable playback.

Now, having said that, I could very well be wrong on that point as I have no first hand knowledge as I have yet to edit any 1080 60p footage. Perhaps others could chime in?

The camera does do pulldown.

I have put off trying it until I knew exactly what it would do, or at the very least how to change it back to the original settings.

All this codec stuff can be very frustrating, and not particularly transparent.

just got the camera.. couple of things:

* Noticed even with an external condensor MIC on the shoe, I can sort of hear the whining sound form the fan.. only when quiet in room...

* How come the camera says 96GB but then a sticker on the camera says 32GB?

* noticed if I record in 1080P, I cant but the memory care into my bluray player and see the video. If I record with 1080P turned off I can.. when I turn that off, is it still 1080P but just not 60???????????????

anything else I should know about the camera??

The Japanese model is 96GB and maybe a US sticker is on because 32G is the capacity for the US.

It's only confirmed that a PS3 or a 3D capable Panasonic Blu-Ray player can play the 1080 60p files. When you put it off, it's either 1080 60i or 1080 24p within 60i in which you need something like NeoScene to easily fix.

how do I know if it is 60I or 24P within 60I ?? should I always shoot in 60P even though my TV is only I not P ?

Hi Bub!

Thank you for brilliant answer!

Why you use external SD card for transfering back to camera?

Can I use the same procedures with built-in memory of camera?

One more question: did you set up your video card frequency to 60Hz before
transfer video to TV from laptop? Should I in my PAL country set up freq. to 50Hz?

Paulo,
how you import native mts files from Panasonic to Premiere?
What type of project did you create?
I have noticed that in CS5 there is no 1080\\50p preset in AVCHD or any other format...
I have tried to create HDV 1080/25p project and then imported mts to timeline.
But I think this is not a native support...

What presets do you use?

Thank you.

As far as transfer method, it doesn't matter. You can either copy/paste entire file structure from internal memory to external memory, then to computer, or use cable and software. Both preserve the file structure needed in order for the 700 to play the files it created.

I believe I mentioned that I have not hooked up my laptop to my TV and watched any 700 footage yet. I merely stated what I had heard on that subject and what I understood about the issue. I can't see how that could be a problem as long as your laptop was able to play the 700's files without issue (and I think there are plenty reporting playback of 1080 60p files with issues, even on desktop machines with great specs).

I think I'm with the majority here who believe that playing 1080 60p files as well as editing them will soon become much easier and issue free once 'technology' catches up. By that I mean that hardware and software designers will soon be releasing products and software that handle 1080 60p files just as simply as 1080 60i flies are handled now.

As far as the difference between TV's and computer screens/monitors (as far as my understanding here in the US), TV's have long been designed to handle interlaced images as broadcast television is interlaced (60i) but computer screens/monitors do not deal with interlaced video as LCD technology is progressive. So, a TV can accept both 60i and 60p (I guess I'm talking only of current flat screen technology as older CRT TV's were interlaced) video while computer screens/monitors only display 60p so if you are going to feed them 60i signals, there must be some processing involved.

I guess it wouldn't matter which video signal you had your video card setup to send to your TV as both interlaced and progressive signals would work. It would make sense though, that if you shot your video in 1080 50p, you would want to setup your video card to output 1080 50p to both preserve the highest resolution from your footage as well as eliminate any processing from 50i to 50p, or even 50p to 50i and back to 50p for your TV.

Of course, if anybody has a better understanding or I've erred in my explanation, please feel free to correct me.

anyone??? I have still been looking but all of the after market chargers I havew found say they can not charge the panasonic batteries... only yh after market ones...

As well, has anybody had any success using 3rd party batteries for the 700? I always buy a backup battery for all my portable electronics but am a bit slow in committing to the $60 price for the 130 or $110 for the 260.

If anybody has figured out a cheaper alternative, I'm all ears.

I got 4 of the batteries that are the same ones that came with the camera for $20 each free shipping (brand new) from ebay.. what is the model # for the extended battery (one that doesnt need any holder)

Have question.. a friend of mine is telling me NOT to use OIS at all as it degrades the video quality of the 1080P-60 image.. I thought only EIS did that NOT OIS?? can someone explain WHY he would say that?