Lifespan of entry level LCDs

What brand and model, I've seen them spec the hours from 30000 to 60000 with most at 50000, of couse this is yet to happen for most users. Time will tell us all how long these flat panels will last. Hopefully you will want to upgrade way before you have any problems.

Panel lifetime shouldn't be a concern at all. Backlighting; well, CCFL will need to be serviced around 30,000 to 50,000 hours, different solutions will have different specific needs there. That's a long, long time, though. Depending on the internal components, heat dissipation design, and a lot of other what-ifs, you really can't put a number on how long a set itself will last. For example, if sets are using poor capacitors, they might start not wanting to turn on reliably a lot sooner than you'd expect. Certain manufacturers have had some trouble with this.

It just depends, though. In general if you don't relish the idea of replacing the set within a few years, I'd get the extended warranty on it...

Something generally fails within 3 years on the top line LCDs, sooner on the second tier brands and much sooner on the very cheap lcds. Regardless of their panel life ratings, etc., the repair usually costs more than the tv is worth by then and you just get another one. Some people buy extended warranties, others just hope for the best and buy new when necessary.

Second or third tier refers to the manufacturer, not the price you paid for it.

First tier brands are generally thought of as Samsung, Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic, & LG.

Good solid second tier brands or some will say even low first tier are Sharp and VIZIO.

I'd put JVC and maybe Philips in the second tier, and everything else in the third tier.

As for your question about an $800 TV from a major manufacturer lasting five years, I would certainly hope so. Of course, I don't know your financial situation, but I personally wouldn't buy an extended warranty on an $800 TV. If you are that concerned, get it from Costco and you'll automatically have a two-year warranty.

Personally, I have a 22 year old TV in my bedroom by a manufacturer that wasn't exactly considered top of the line (Magnavox), and I still like the picture.

I would sure hope we haven't regressed to the point where a TV won't last 5 years!

Twenty-two years ago Magnavox was a well-respected TV manufacturer who made quality products here in the good old US of A. And, yes, I would hope any TV made today would last at least five years.

The problem is that most of the enthusiasts on this Forum not only expect their TVs to last forever, but to also be perfect forever. Unfortunately, quality has taken a back seat to sales in many products we buy. Take Toyota for example...

Well, I hope you're wrong and 60,000hrs is right. I'm approaching 3 years with my JVC LT-46FN97. It's been perfect so far.

If people are routinely replacing LCDs at 3 years or less and aren't screaming bloody murder about it, then maybe I'm the dillusional one.

After spending under $1000 for CRTs all of my life and getting 10-15 years out of them, the idea of spending $2500 and getting 3 years is just obscene.

I think LCDs that last less than 3 years are by far the exception rather than the rule.

I would not consider Sharp a Teir 2 brand, they make some of the highest quality sets available today and are the only company that manufactures their LCD panels in Japan. every other brand out there uses panels made mostly in China or Taiwan and many sony/samsung sets use S-LCD made panels that are from south korea

in all honesty i would say that sony, sharp, samsung, LG, and Panasonic are the only Teir 1 brands today

Teir 2 i would put Toshiba, JVC, Mitsubishi and Vizio

Teir 3 is the ones to avoid and that is any other brand out today in the US like Insignia, Dynex, the new Phillips models, sanyo, magnavox, RCA, Viore, AOC etc. etc. the list goes on

I said that many LCDs have a repair problem after three years which requires a repair which is often more expensive than a new tv. Not that you have to throw them away, but that a repair costing hundreds of dollars will more than likely cause someone to just throw a few more hundred into the deal and get a new one. Five years is a long life for the current LCDs. Maybe newer ones will last longer, obviously, a three year old tv is not one of the newer ones.

They don't last as long as CRTs at this time. That's just the way it is. Maybe repairs will get less expensive, maybe manufacturers will start using better parts, maybe.....

My point was that OP should not go into the LCD buying experience and expect last generation CRT life expectancy.

well you have to remember that anywhere from 90% to 100% of CRT display types are analog circuitry. analog based electronics are much more forgiving to problems in the long term, as they wear out they often just need simple adjustments or a few small electronic components replaced to get them back in to spec but even if you neglect them they keep on going 95% of the time

LCD tech has been used for a long time now in the PC market and well made displays have been proven to last very long time, the problem with LCD TV's are they are basically a computer TV now a days esp. the higher end models with motion enhancers etc.

this is so true that i know for a fact that samsung, Sony and Toshiba all use linux as the operating system inside their TV's. I even found a readout in my Toshibas service menu that told me the OS's load averages in the standard linux format of reporting it "load average: 0.02, 0.01, 0.00" the sony and samsungs state they use the linux kernel and other GPL licensed open source software like busybox in the back of their manuals

The problem is though the cheaper they try to produce these things to sell them better the more likely they are to have a component inside them fail and unlike CRT's 1 component failure in a digital display results in at best case scenario a few colored lines due to bad panel manufacture or a hard time turning on initially but working fine once you manage to get it on and this is fairly common and caused by the use of cheap capacitors in the power supply board. any other failure is going to be pretty much catastrophic failure most of the time but its as simple as swaping out a board and as long as your screen/backlight assembly are still good it is actually quite cheap to buy used boards out of broken screen TV's on ebay and even straight from a parts distributor as well and anyone can swap these parts out they are plug and play in most TV's

What's the WAF for a $x,xxx TV that lasts 3 years?

I would probably have better luck having a Hooters Waitress as a Facebook friend.

+1 To add to that entry level sets and top of the line sets of the same brand have about the same repair history. When you spend more within the same brand you add features, not reliability. FWIW I haven't seen a single Sharp or Panasonic LCD panel failure. LG panels failures are rare.

Then you should've said that instead of giving baseless, generalized numbers on life expectancy. You could at least give some kind of link or two to back up your random claim in a forum post.

how is sony first tier and sharp 2nd tier when the panels they used are from the same manufacturing plant from their (now delayed) joint venture?

Your theory of repair history is in direct opposition to the idea that the more complicated (240 Hz, back-lit LED, Local-Dimming) add to the complexity of the design, and foretell greater chance of needing repairs or replacement.

This is part of the notion that the better LCDs are more like computers than what we think of as a TV.

When are you going to recognize that Vizio is a top tier brand? Nevermind, most of us will be retired before you figure out what's really going on.

Vizio will be a top Teir brand when they start making their own panels and stop producing their sets in china IMHO

every brand i put in the top teir have one thing in common, they all manufacture LCD's and/or PDP's

Teir 2's use high quality panels made by the Teir 1 brands

Teir 3's use garbage panels from china

Higher end sets asside from edge LED and local LED designs do not change internally very much and often the LCD panel is the same exact one as a lower model, what changes is the software on the mainboard and perhaps the TCON for the 120hz/240hz/10 bit panel versions. the actual LCD glass used say in a sony or samsung will be the same as long as its the same panel manufacture (S-LCD, AUO etc.) the timing controller is what changes with higher refresh models and 10 bit versions

all LCD's are more like computers than TV's these days, theres no getting around that and a lower model is no different than a higher end set

There is more to what makes a quality than what glass they use in their panels. It's the "guts" inside that also help make a good picture. Why has Sharp been plagued with banding over the years when Sony hasn't?

Did you ever compare windshields in a Camry & a Lexus? How about an Accord and an Acura? Which would you rather have?

Until Sharp improves their overall quality to that of the somewhat new LCxxLE700UN series which most buyers seem to like, I'll still put them in the high second tier classification. Of course, I'm just one opinion on this Forum the same as you.

Once I can get NEW Vizio parts we'll talk about vizio beign a top teir set. Right now everythign we get has been 'refurbished" from 3rd party vendors. Vizio DOES NOT SELL PARTS for thier TV's!!! Vizio does not have service manuals for thier sets, nor a "hotline" for repair technicians. Remotes use odd codes that are difficult for some universal remotes. As for the TV's they are actually decent, its' the lack of support I have a problem with.

Modern TV's ARE basically computers. Most LCD sets have 3 major parts: Power supply, "Main", and Panel (panel includes T-conn and ballast, sometimes availbe separately).

do you consider the iPhone, ipods etc tier one products? Guess where they are made, yup you guessed it China. You may want to take a look around your house on all your fancy gadgets and see where they are made.
My Sony Sound Bar HTCT100 is made in China.

And Vizio buys it's panals from LG and Panasonic. and if you only think good tv's are from companies that make their own panals then you just eliminated over 90% of all TV companies since only Panasonic, LG, Sony/Samsung make their own panals.
And oh and didn't Pioneer Oh the Holy Grail of TV's Pioneer BUY their panals?

So the whole made in China is just bogus.

I say, learn to replace capacitors. About 6 or 7 months ago I began getting in to the hobby of arcade collecting. I've have 2 machines that I bought with monitor problems, which I fixed by replacing all the caps on them. While the monitors are CRT, this can also be applied to LCD technology. I learned this a month or two ago I began having problems with a computer LCD monitor that would have trouble turning on. I decided to write down all the capacitor values, and buy replacements from www.mouser.com After buying about $6 worth of caps, and replacing all the caps on the internal components, my monitor now works again. Before I got my arcade machines I had never picked up a soldering iron before. Caps are cheap, and if you spend a few dollars and a few hours you may be able to fix a TV that you would have otherwise scrapped.

Also LCD TV's are way easier to work on than CRT's.

I'm well aware many devices are made in china.

the best brand TV's are all assembled in Mexico

I'm also aware that Vizio sources panels from good manufactures, its one of the main reasons why their TV's are pretty good.

a Panel does not make the TV though and the software and other hardware like the main board have a great deal to do with how they work and perform as well

I actually recommend Vizio TV's to people looking for one on a budget they are a great choice but they will only become Teir 1 to me when they have grown large enough to produce most/all of their TV like the rest of the Teir one brands do, in the mean time they are cobbling together parts and outsourcing manufacturing of everything. this is why its impossible for repairmen like Servicetech571 on these forums to find new replacement parts or service manuals for Vizio TV's and that is something even brands like Toshiba have available for even the end user to buy!

I agree 100% electrolytic capacitor failure is very obvious and requires no test equipment to find out what ones are busted

they are very cheap and easy to solder in

i've fixed the power supply board in my viewsonic monitor twice, it had a total of 5 capacitors go out in it. one of them i could only find a higher voltage rating cap for locally so i didn't replace it and it worked fine for 6 months then it got real hard to get it to turn on so i used some wire and electrical tape and wired/taped in the larger replacement cap and its been working like a champ for over 6 months now

total investment 10 dollars maybe on capacitors from Fry's and about 2 hours time for both times i had to dismantle the monitor and put it back together again

Before someone sees posts trivializing working on monitors and thinks 'gee, I could do that!" and ends up accidentally killing themselves, the internals of many television and monitor technologies use extremely high voltages, voltages which remain stored in the power capacitors long after the TV is turned off and unplugged. Properly discharging their remaining electricity is something that must be done for your own safety. If you don't know how to do that, either read a lot until you understand the process 100%, or don't attempt to service your own set. Better to pay someone with the skill than to die trying to save a buck.

LCD TV's/monitors are not like CRT displays they do not have a flyback transformer that holds a HV charge for a long time after it has been unplugged

what these TV have that could potentially shock someone is a standard AC to DC power supply, these drain power from the capacitors very quickly and there is little risk of being shocked because by the time you actually got the thing apart any charge a capacitor had held is completely gone and besides that fact none of it is high enough voltage to kill someone on a single handed contact

the ballast is capable of very high voltages but does not need to be touched or removed in order to repair most user fixable problems in an LCD and even if its does in a certian model they do not store power like CRT's flyback transformer. they operate just the same as normal tube florescent light fixtures

I know quite a bit about electricity and electronics, used to play with Tesla coils and other extremely HV stuff when i was i teenager in high school

what kills a person is when something has enough voltage to overcome the resistance of your body and reach your heart or you let yourself complete the circuit by touching the device with both hands. it takes very little current to stop or start the heart but its very difficult to accidentally get power to actually pass through the heart unintentionally

Electricity always takes the path of least resistance to complete a circuit and in order to get say house voltage of 120v to pass through your heart you need to touch one prong with one hand and the other prong with the other hand and that will most certainly stop your heart. this is why when electricians work on live circuits they are trained to always keep one hand behind their back thus preventing it from happening should they get shocked with the hand they are working with

when you get shocked by AC voltage with the hot wire makes your muscles contract and expand at 60hz the rate that the voltage is alternating polarity. DC will not shock you unless you complete the circuit