Panasonic DMR-EH75, TVGOS, Cablevision Brooklyn NY

The guide data is actually transmitted over one of the local tv stations in all markets...Macrovision-now owned by a company dubbed Roxi(?), entered into a deal with CBS for cbs affiliate stations across the country to carry the signal in their broadcasts-if they choose to...it's not mandatory.
If a CBS station decided not to, usually the PBS station (which sent the datastream out prior to the CBS deal) would continue transmitting it. Most cable companies are supposed to provide an analog version of the now digital OTA stations, which would allow the TVGOS to continue receiving data.
I own a Panny E85H, and it still picked up guide data after the digital transition from my local CBS station.

So what you need to do is email both the CBS and PBS stations in your area and ask if either is transmitting the TVGOS data. Once you confirm which-if either, is sending it out, then email Cablevision and complain...

Interesting! I had no idea Cablevision was encroaching on Brooklyn, I thought I was stuck with the Time Warner monopoly: gotta look into that!

Analog TVGOS hardware like the Panasonic EH75, and my own Pioneer 531, have been rendered obsolete by the switch to DTV. Time marches on, nothing lasts forever, and analog TVGOS is basically dead now- New York is just the last major market to drop it (the rest of the country went slack months ago). The company that owns TVGOS has no particular interest anymore in promoting or pushing it, and does not have any real influence or pressure to bear on host stations. If they did, they would look like fools: the TVGOS pilot signal is analog, but all OTA transmissions are now digital, so there is no point in pressuring stations to transmit the signal in digital- our recorders cannot tune digital broadcasts without a converter box, but most converter boxes don't convert the TVGOS signal (they weren't designed to). There is such a thing as digital TVGOS, and some markets do transmit it, but no DVD recorders can directly use digital TVGOS: its been relegated to an on-screen channel guide for flat-display televisions (mostly Sony).

As you've discovered, "old" TVGOS survives primarily thru cable service analog tiers, but those are fast disappearing. Cable regulations do not guarantee the right to analog boxless service, they only require the cableco to provide a decoder box free of charge if they decide to discontinue analog service. Almost all cablecos have jumped on this loophole, because maintaining a single digital transmission is easier and more cost-effective than keeping the ancient analog system in tandem. Once Cablevision discontinues its analog service in a few weeks, its unlikely you'll still be able to pull TVGOS from it. You might be able to, if Cablevision doesn't actually pull the plug on that particular analog host channel, but you'll need to use a splitter to hook up both the direct cable and the decoder box to your recorder.

I believe elsewhere on AVS there is info from other Panasonic owners confirming the later models can pull the TVGOS signal from the bare cable feed while simultaneously controlling a line 1 decoder box for all the other channels. Look for posts by members Rammitinski and ppppl for more detail on this point. Another variation on this trick is to buy the DTVpal digital TV converter box (not the same-named recorder, the cheap converter box). Apparently the DTVpal does separately convert the digital TVGOS signal from digital host channels back to analog: if you have decent off air reception of the host channel, the DTVpal can feed the data to your Panasonic tuned to channel 3 while again the recorder operates the cable box for everything else. This arrangement has worked in some areas of the country but I haven't heard it confirmed for New York yet: perhaps you can be the first. Again, many more details can be found in dedicated Panasonic recorder and TVGOS threads here on AVS: you should browse those asap. These tricks may or may not work with your EH75: the "old" EH75 has the older TVGOS which I hear can only use a single input, the later 2006-era EH55, 75V and 85V are more adaptable for TVGOS workarounds.

Good luck!

I believe smr1964 actually has the EH-75v (the '03 E75v has no TVGOS feature) and the EH-75v is '06 like the EH-55. That being the case you should be able to use the DTVPal CECB or a certain Artec CECB that converts the digital OTA TVGOS to analog for use in your DVDR. It's not the easiest to setup and your market(I can't believe NYC wouldn't) must have a station(usually digital CBS) broadcasting the TVGOS.
You can check this thread for more information on TVGOS. I think it also has a links on hooking up a CECB to convert TVGOS for legacy DVDRs like your EH-75v(which is similar to a EH-55 which lacks the VHS but has a larger HDD).
Having read the many horror stories from people that tried (hard to setup, works for a while then quits, incomplete listings etc. I've given up TVGOS for my EH-55 and just use manual events. If I had cable and all the channels that come with it I may be more interested in keeping TVGOS working.

It's really hard to find the DTVPal CECB these days, but the Artec is still available (www.meritline.com has it).

I don't know how well those things work with cable, though, if at all.

It will only use OTA for the TVGOS signal, recording will be done from the line input from your cable STB. Note the EH-75v must have a code to control your cable box, some STBs work but many times the cheap DTA converter boxes won't, also the box must have a line output(since the DVDRs only RF input will only be used to get the OTA TVGOS signal from the CECB).

I know that the EH75V can control the DTVPal (at least it's supposed to be able to - I could never quite get it to correctly myself - some others here apparently have with the EH75/55, though), but I don't really know about the Artec. He'd have to research that. I would imagine it would have to use some kind of reasonably familiar code (the threads for it in the CECB forum tell you the brand name of the cable box for the code, if you want to look that up. I don't feel like sifting through all that stuff myself right now).

You're right, if the DVDR is controlling the CECB with the IR blaster then it can't also control his STB So I guess someone can NOT use the CECB to only get TVGOS and also use the blaster to control their STB.
I guess if his Cablevision doesn't provide analog TVGOS he's SOL

Best thing to do then would be to see if you can get a cable box with internal timers (if he doesn't already have one), and just synch/set the ones on that and the recorder manually.

Maybe an interesting thought...

Might be worth it to try a duplex plug in the DVDR IR blaster port with TWO BLASTERS, one on the CECB and one on the STB?

They should only "conflict" during the TVGOS download times, when the CECB is changing channels for a TVGOS data search (3X/day?), leaving the timer record blaster on the STB all the other times to send/receive a channel change signal?

Many types of duplex plugs are available... mono, stereo, etc. I think blasters are simple mono plugs?

That's a good idea but the problem I see is you must tell the DVDR what IR code set to use and to change to a different set you'd have to go into the DVDR setup and change it.
I can't really see a practical way to get the TVGOS OTA and record from a cable STB
I guess I would have run into a similar problem recording OTA because I would have wanted to use the Pal only for TVGOS but record from the CM-7000 which has a better picture than the Pal.
I think it's time for a Tivo or Moxi and just use the EH-75v to offload programs, that or live with no guide programming

The blaster is configured for codes of a single device during setup. A splitter will do no good unless the CECB and STB use identical control codes -- unlikely.

Admittedly I haven't used TVGOS for a very long time, mostly because the version in my old Pioneer is poorly designed and buggy compared to the far better Panasonic version. I still follow the updates people post on various threads, though, and it was my impression you could instruct the later Panasonics (EH55, EH75V) to not search an assortment of channels, but stick to a single host channel of your choice. I'm pretty sure I've read posts from several Panasonic owners who have the DTVpal connected to the recorders analog tuner via the box's RF output, and their cable box connected to line input. Supposedly you set the EH75V to always download the TVGOS data from the DTVpal connection, over a single defined channel, with no need for the recorder blaster to control the DTVpal at all: the Panasonic blaster changes channels on the cable box for recording only.

Unless I'm completely misinterpreting some previous posts, this exact setup is the reason the later EH55 and 75V are still highly sought after: they are sophisticated enough to understand what you're up to, they can pull direct TVGOS data from one connection while controlling an entirely separate cable decoder via the blaster? Whereas the earlier Panasonics with TVGOS, and my Pioneer 531, must use the same connection for TVGOS data and recording?

jjeff? Kelson? Rammitinski? Am I totally off track with that interpretation of the EH55/75 advantage?

I think the advantage of the EH-55/75v is it's ability to get TVGOS from Dish and it's also the most recent analog TVGOS version, with several feature upgrades from, for example the '05 EH-50.
I think smr1964 will probably get the best info from the master TVGOS thread I linked in my prior post. Personally I've used analog TVGOS to control my CECB but that was back when TVGOS was still broadcast analog OTA. I just haven't felt like going through hassle of trying to get it working post analog, I use my Tivo for guide and programming and only use my EH-55 to offload the Tivo. Although during the Olympics I may need to do some live manual events(with my DVDR and CECB) due to both Tivo tuners being tied up and the need to record a third event Damn I hate it when programs are scheduled to run 1 or 2 minutes long, screws up BTB events on different channels

Ah - I didn't see that part (must've been my ADHD acting up). Then you are definitely still getting the analog TVGOS signal.

Try taking the coax passing through the cable box to the recorder out of the equation, and split the coax signal from the wall directly to the box and the recorder independently, and then see what happens (that's just in case the signal's not "passing through" the box).

Also, try different setup choices - like "Cable without a box", etc. (that actually may be the key right there).

One of those variations should work then.

Now, there's a chance that you could still be picking up a host channel, but for some reason you're not getting any data. That should remedy itself in time, though, whenever they get things right. If you're getting impatient, you can give them a call.

It should give you the option to stop the scan after 3 days, if you answer yes to continue it will scan for 2 more days and then give up. I'm not positive how it would act if you had the TVGOS signal and then it lost it, would it scan indefinitely or again give you the option to quit after 3 days? When I lost my TVGOS signal I reset my recorder(with channel up/channel down for 10 seconds) and waited the 3 days and then told it to stop scanning.
Unless one is lucky enough to get the DTVPal CECB to work using OTA it sounds like analog TVGOS is going to be all but dead, even on cable

Then you may need to do a factory reset, hold CH up and CH down buttons on main unit for at least 10 seconds. Note you'll need to do another channel scan after the reset as well as reset your personal preferences. You don't want your EH-75v scanning all the time which it seems like what it's doing now.

I'm glad to find this thread. In TW Manhattan South my service konked out around Monday 4/26/10.

I've been a video editor since the 70s but the main premise of the analogue to digital switch eludes me. I've had years of good service with TVGOS and always fed my Panasonic EH55 s-video exclusively from a newish TW digital cable box. So for those who fed their Panasonic the RF directly via the Time-Warner coax cable I can see how the switch from analog to digital channels (via RF) would be an issue.

I've alway assumed the TV Guide channel 51 had been digitized along the way but it still carried the VITSC (yes?) data stream from TVGOS that fed into my EH55 via the s-video out from the TW cable box Do I have this wrong, what have I missed?

Thanks,

Paul

I'm glad to have found this thread too.
My location is northern Manhattan and I'm served by TW Cable as well, although through a different head-end. I've been getting no data for the last few weeks.
Yes, you're correct that the TVGOS data was broadcast in the vertical blanking interval of channel 51. It was also simulcast on analog channel 18 for the benefit of those with "budget" service (just over-the-air and a few local access channels, oh and yes, some home shopping channels). I had my EH75 tuned to channel 18, which allowed for the cable box to be powered off, with no loss of data-- a sweet set-up while it lasted.
The "G-Test" diagnostic shows no VBI data on either channel.
I've sent an email to Rovicorp, the current proprietor of TVGOS, but have not received a reply yet. I haven't had the time to get through to anyone at Time Warner who knows anything about this.

Hi radiotron,

Nice to find I'm not alone. I've escalated this at TW and hope to hear something soon. Still puzzled why TW's analog to digital switch would effect the VITSC on ch51 which always went from the digital TW cable box to my eh55 as video

Paul

> Your DMR-EH DVR will only work off of analog TVGOS data, however
> Cablevision is encrypting the digital signal they are broadcasting so even
> TVGOS devices that would normally work off of digital data will no longer
> work in Brooklyn or The Bronx.

Thanks for the news srm1964. I tried to contact Rovi but could not find a web page or an e-mail address to contact them with. How did you do it?

The phrase that pops out from the Rovi reply is "Cablevision is encrypting the digital signal." Without jumping to conclusions, this sounds sinister. Does it mean deliberately garbling it so that we (our Panasonic DVRs) can't "read" it. My fear is that under the very general heading of the "switch from analog-to-digital" this is a smokescreen to willfully destroy all DVR competition to exert monopoly control over (providing) DVRs?

The only way I got a response from TW was to contact this city agency that regulates the cable franchise

http://www.nyc.gov/html/mail/html/maildoitt.html

Paul

I agree. How hard would it be for them to insert the TVGOS signal in any of their remaining analogs?
From what I understand they will continue with a few analogs(2-20 I think) for lifeline service. It's on one of those channels that they could easily insert the TVGOS signal, if they cared or wanted people to have a choice for a guide or DVR other than theirs