Panasonic DMR-EH75, TVGOS, Cablevision Brooklyn NY - Page 3

Thanks radiotron. I just looked at TV Guide on ch157 but don't see any VBI activity. In the past it seemed like my Panasonic unit eh55 would go hunting for its (missing)TVGOS feed but now returns to and remains parked on ch51 in spite of the fact that the TV Guide ch. has moved.

As one might expect the eh55 schedule was not advancing (filling in) from where it was yesterday afternoon. What are things like on your end?

I'd do a reset on my eh55 to force it to start looking for the TVGOS feed, but until I see VBI activity, there doesn't seem to be much point.

pauld2007 and the assembled multitude,

I've noticed that the TVGOS VBI activity has been sporadic lately here in northern Manhattan. Wasn't here all weekend, now it's back. Of course, I use analog cable channel 18 as my guide source since my digital cable box seems to not pass any guide data to my Panny. This being the case, I don't know what's happening data-wise with ch 157.

You might have to give your eh55 a big nudge toward the proper channel. You can do this by restricting its VBI data search to the one channel likely to be carrying it. Try this:
1) Tune to the Guide channel, then press the TV Guide Button on your remote.
2) Arrow up to the service bar
3) Arrow across to "set up"
4) Highlight "Change System Settings" but DO NOT press "enter"
5) Press the following sequence: 963214785. Screen should now read something like "VBI Search This Channel"
6) Turn unit off and wait 24 hours. Don't change the channel on your cable box, either. This procedure should keep the unit tuned to the channel long enough to gather VBI data. If it does, it should consequently forget about ch 51 and replace it with ch 157 in system memory.

Of course, there's the chance that TW Cable has not moved the TVGOS data inserter to the proper channel yet. If that's the case you might try splitting the signal before it enters your cable box with one end of the split going to the Panny. Then switch the input of the Panny to "analog RF" using the "input select" button of your remote. Tune to ch 18. You should be seeing the Guide channel. If all goes right repeat steps 1 thru 6 above.

I know that this constitutes a long walk around the block, but it sure beats having to program manually....
Good luck.

Wow radiotron, you are quite the expert. Thank you!

I wanted to parse two things. First, it sounds like your TVGOS feed is working ok via direct-analog ch18, yes ?

If I were to split the feed and go that route, what about the following... Can I access all the extra channels made available by using the (digital) cable box if the eh55 is bypassing it to get the TVGOS feed? I suppose it all hinges on this next question, during the initialization you're asked if you're using cable direct or cable with a cable box, etc? Using the route you describe I'm not sure how to answer. The eh55 is getting it's feed direct but I'd like to get the full (cable box) listings & have access to the full compliment of channels one gets with the cable box. What to do?

Last little thing. After Step 5
"5) Press the following sequence: 963214785. Screen should now read something like "VBI Search This Channel"
Next you enter the desired channel, yes?

Thanks in advance,

Paul

pauld2007,
I'm no expert, but I've been able to glean enough knowledge from the internet and some experimentation to keep my Panny going, and I'm glad to share what little I know to keep otherwise great equipment out of the landfill.
Yes, the ch 18 feed is working today, but given the recent history, who knows about tomorrow?
Yes, you should be able to access the cable box via "in3" and ch 18 analog via the RF input if the eh55 is similar to the eh75 as I believe it to be.
During the initial set up you'll need to answer yes to both cable with and without cable box. (in3 and RF will then be active)
And finally, you set the eh55 to the TVGOS channel BEFORE performing steps 1-6.

Thanks radiotron, (all my posts seem to start this way;-)

You cleared up my misunderstanding of step 1. (Manually calling up the TV Guide channel first.)

I just did a reset on my Panasonic, trying to follow your advice. However now that the steps are fresh in my mind, some issues remain unresolved. Sorry if I'm being dense. In your last post you say "During the initial set up you'll need to answer yes to both cable with and without cable box. (in3 and RF will then be active)" I'm lost as to where one has the opportunity to give it *both* answers. In my first attempt I answered "cable without cable box" - that seems to be the end of the story... where/how does one get the opportunity to then also tell it (the seemingly conflicting answer) "cable with cable box"???? The sweet spot I'm aiming for is where it's deriving data direct from RF but operationally I'm enjoying the benefits of the full compliment of channels available with the cable box. (The post-script below recaps why I don't think I could bypass the cable box altogether in real life)

After hitting this impasse I tried your great tip to manually set the VBI channel. I did this only after toggling between RF-analog TV Guide Channel (18) and 157 via the cable box. To the subjective eye the VBI activity on both appeared identical. I followed your instructions after setting the cable box to 157 via the eh55 remote, and it went along as you outlined. However after a few minutes (I can monitor the cable box while the eh55 is off in "download mode") I saw that the searching process had started, checking each channel beginning with ch1. Either I did something wrong or contrary to the "subjective eye" check, there is something wrong with ch157 via the cable box. As you can see I'm stuck and the only solution would seem to be the dual configuration you describe that I haven't mastered.

I know this must be getting tedious for you, thanks in advance.

Paul


p.s. If I tell the eh55 that I'm using cable without a box, it looks to RF in. (Yes I split the cable feed so that it goes both to the eh55 and to the cable box.) Doing this confirms two things, yes channels are coming through to the eh55 (and yes I see TV Guide on ch18) however the channels available appear to be a small sub-set of what one gets with a cable box and some channels are very noisey.

On my machine in the initial setup, the screen following the one where you enter the zip code asks you to "Please select which service(s) you would like TV Guide On Screen to support (check all that apply)
Antenna
Cable without a cable box
Cable with a cable box
DirecTV
Dish Network "

I checked both cable offerings during setup.

BTW, all of this may be academic at the moment anyway. I got no listings update in the last two days and the VBI data has looked to be sporadic on ch 18.
Also, a lot of the programming on the TV Guide cable channel now contains closed captioning which is transmitted in the Vertical Blanking Interval as well, so just checking visually might be misleading. For all I know, there might even be some VITC in there too, it all looks the same to me.

Is anyone in the NY Metro area getting TVGOS now via cable or otherwise??

Thanks so much for clearing that up. I'll put this dual configuration effort on hold, based on the problem with ch18 that you report. Though I wish TVGOS was working, it's some comfort that my eh55 hasn't gone bonkers on its own.

Also the next time I try step 5...
"5) Press the following sequence: 963214785. Screen should now read something like "VBI Search This Channel"

Do you turn off your eh75 while on the (Panasonic) TV Guide screen that says "VBI Search This Channel" *or* do you first exit that screen with the "return" before powering off?

Thanks,

Paul

Power off while in that screen. Touch nothing. Wait a day.
You might want to try the "G-test" as described a few posts back before you actually do this. I did one a few minutes ago and it's showing VBI data again. I think it's pretty hit or miss these days.
According to something I read somewhere there's supposed to be some sort of "place-holder" data transmitted between actual guide data transmissions so the TVGOS device will stop searching for a valid channel. I think that's not been happening for some reason lately...

I just ran my first VBI test on TV Guide ch.157, it confirms that no data is coming through. Is anyone getting TVGOS or is it the same for everyone?

Here in northern Manhattan, TV Guide On Screen has been intermittent, at best. Last overnight, (via TW Cable ch 18 w/o cable box) my eh-75 received listings and ads for the first time since Wednesday.Approximately 40% of today's grid is filled with "No Listing" in seemingly random order. The same is true for Sunday and a week from today.
Is anyone in the NY Metro area getting TVGOS listings via cable? Is the listings grid completely filled in? I'd like to have some feedback as to how wide-spread this problem is before I fire off another email to Rovi.
Thanks.

Anyone have luck with TVGOS? Rovi said they are looking into a potential problem they see and I've tried to escalate the matter with TW-NYC. All this on Monday, still waiting to hear something.

After a four day TVGOS drought here in Northern Manhattan, the night before last via TW Cable, I received a full TVGOS data download on analog ch 18. Last night, nothing. Right now, there appears to be VBI data via ch.18, but nothing via cable box channel 157.
On another front, perhaps we should consider taking this thread elsewhere, since our Brooklyn friends seem to have dropped out? A new thread titled "TVGOS in NY" or something more inclusive. Any ideas?

I'd stick with this thread but it's your call.

Thanks for the update. I was informed (c/o TW) that going forward ch157 is a bust for TVGOS. This morning I set up my eh55 to the hybrid you suggested by checking cable with & without box. After setting up the remote to control the cable box, I turned it off as instructed and I don't see it searching by changing the cable box channels. I'd like to think the eh55 is looking to the direct RF in for the data c/o ch18 and (eventually) look to the s-video feed from the cable box for viewing and recording.

Mixed results with Analog In. Set up my eh55 for "cable with box" and "cable without box" on Friday for the first time (to try to work off TVG on RF-Analog ch18). Went away for the weekend and got listings when I checked it Sunday which is great. The listings went as far as late Sunday night. Now this morning (Monday) no listings. Frustrating. It seems my eh55 is set up properly but there is a problem on the TVGOS end. Anyone else?

Now that I'm working with 2 inputs, when I went to the schedule itself (that was populated for Sunday) and called up a channel, a new "button" appeared over "channel" "hours ahead" etc that would allow me to cycle between "cable with box" and "cable without box." Is this the new normal? (in this new bifurcated world I wish is could understand that I only care about one schedule but I need to get the data via "cable without box"

The above arrangement works but I got the feeling that my downloading might be hobbled by the fact that the eh55 is wasting time downloading "cable without box" sched ie. the schedule I don't use.

Paul

Paul,
It's great that you're getting listings again, although intermittently. At the moment I'm getting a FAIL on the VBI test via analog ch 18. I received partial listings yesterday.
As to the "button" you mention-- I've never seen that on my machine. I get just the cable box listings. You can, of course, use the channel editor to turn off the channels you don't want in your grid. Just remember to leave ch 18 turned on (move it out to some out of the way place the end of the list if you want to, but make sure it's turned on).
As I mentioned earlier, the TVGOS service seems to be spotty, with the VBI data signal missing for hours on end. I've observed that this will cause the Panny to resume its search for a TVGOS data channel, and possibly miss the actual data transmission.

Hey radiotron,

If your TVGOS comes back would you let us know of if better, send me an e-mail directly? (I sent a note with my e-mail address to your AVS Forum mailbox) Though I had some luck over the wkend with Analog TVGOS, I don't have full confidence in my configuration.

Thanks!

Paul

Hi radiotron, putting aside the wildcard of whether TVGOS is working, I did want to pursue the different results we seem to be getting re. the nature of the schedule. With your help I've just started to grasp the mysteries that follow from being able to select BOTH "cable with box" and "cable without box" during the initial set-up. (For those of you just joining us, I'm doing this because changes at Time-Warner require me to get the data from analog ch18 as direct RF (aka "cable without box" ) into my eh55 *yet* my viewing, schedule and recording looks to the cable box supplied "IN3" video input (aka "cable with box" )

Over the weekend I was able to download some schedule with this "both" or "dual" set-up. When I turned on the unit Sunday it greeted me with a screen asking me to choose among many (seemingly available) schedules the eh55 encountered, like AT&T, Time-Warner Manhattan Cable, Time-Warner Manhattan Cable w Digital Box, etc.

This is all familiar, but what is new is that this screen comes up twice in a row, meaning (I believe) it wants an answer for each input? So I answer "Time-Warner Manhattan Cable" first and (next screen) "Time-Warner Manhattan Cable w Digital Box" for the second. I believe this is why every attempt to navigate the schedule on Sunday (the short time it was operational) required me to enter/toggle between two available schedules. radiotron - I'd love to figure about how you've been able to bypass this double schedule. One one hand I can sort of see why this might be happening, on the other it doesn't square with your experience or the concept of data from one input (RF) and (a) schedule (and everything else) from the other (video IN3).

Oy, there is one last confusing wrinkle but I'll save that for another post.

Thanks,

Paul

I must confess that I have never encountered this dual-choice screen. After the initial data download my eh75 (TVGOS version 9.27) asks me to choose which cable system serves me,(based on what's available for the ZIP code entered in the initial set-up) then integrates it all into one guide. Then I use the channel editor function to put those channels into my preferred order. I turn off the channels that either don't exist or I'll never watch (home shopping, etc.)
BTW, this morning I got a complete download. Yesterday I received ads, but no listings. I believe these are transmitted during different times of the day.

I've always wondered why some people get the choice of AT&T.

Anybody here ever gotten an IR blaster to control an AT&T tuner? I've always thought that wasn't possible, but maybe I'm wrong.

Though I can't claim to understand what is happening "under the hood" my eh55 started getting TVG data overnight Tuesday (via ch18 analog) and had built up a pretty good schedule by Wednesday am. I can only pray things will be stable for a while. I put a lot effort into documenting the current eh55 set-up that is working, so should be able to repeat it if need be. Thanks for everything radiotron.

Paul

Glad I didn't break out the champagne. I set-up my eh55 on Monday for "dual input" (cable with & without box) and got a schedule the next day after leaving the unit off for 24 hours. Unless there is a weird coincidence with the TVGOS data konking out again, it seems there is a flaw in my modus operandi. This weeks problem is similar to the one I encountered the first time I set up this "dual input" config. In summary it seems I did the right thing following a full reset (starting with "English" "4:3 TV" etc). But I suspect that once the eh55 first successfully loaded some schedule data and then prompted to know which of many schedule "lineup" options to use... I gave it the wrong answer because it seems from that point on, its stopped downloading or delivering schedule data.

After the initial set-up and left it off for a day, I got the "In Progress" screen, indicating the eh55 had found and was downloading data, presumably from analog TVG ch18. After an overnight shut-off, I was presented with this screen on Tues morn...

"TV Guide On Screen found more than one *cable ready* channel lineup in your area. To receive correct program listings you must select one of the following lineups. Please consult your cable provider if you are unsure which lineup to choose."

Note the asterisks because this was the first of two such screens with the same language but the 2nd nearly identical one says "... found more than one *cable box* channel lineup in your area."

Two such prompt screens would seem normal given my "dual input" config.

I gave it the appropriate answers but it seems the resulting problems relate to the unit's confusion (and my confusion) as to the data coming from one input (RF in - aka cable-without-box) and everything else I'd use (lineup, what I'm navigating to with remote, viewing & recording.. coming from (video) IN3 "cable-with-box" My shorthand for this concept is "division of labor"

One last thing seems to confirm this confused state. When the eh55 was left off at the beginning of the week I was able to monitor the output of the cable box, there was no channel changing evident which would seem to confirm that the hunt for TV Guide data was happening on the direct RF In side of things (presumably analog ch18). Following the fruitless overnight last night when the unit was left off, this morning I found the cable box tuned to TV Guide ch 157. This is a surprise for 2 reasons, one T-W Cable allegedly isn't supporting TVGOS data on this channel *and* I thought from the way the week began that the eh55 was successfully set to look to the RF In (not video IN3!) for data. This is pure torture, thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.

Paul

Ugh, as long as that last post was, it seems I left something out.

A Panasonic support person (that dept has generally been useless) suggested using the remote to go to this screen ....

Settings->Set-Up->Channel-> (then the following "bars" or buttons are dsiplayed)

TV Guide Settings (I can hi-lite this and it will take me to another screen confirming my dual inputs)

(below that - greyed out, I can't navigate to or hi-lite this)

(again greyed out) Signal Source (RF In) (to the right - seemingly hi-lited in blue) Cable TV

This seems valid in so far as the signal I view & record is not RF, but Cable (box). Unless signal refers to Signal Source refers to source of TV Guide data - which now ought to be RF In. Again I'm confused by the details of this dual input config.

Hi radiotron,

There's a lot of detail in my posts today, but my question for you is a skinny. Before I go seeking answers in other forums, I wanted to confirm something about your successful set-up. Since TW discontinued TVGOS data via its cable box channel, you've been getting it by spitting the RF so that it goes to both your eh75 direct and to the box. This config enables the unit to get it's TVGOS data from direct RF In analog ch18. But you're not watching, channel surfing and recording this RF analog feed are you?

I had to double check, because I just assumed that since the analog offerings via direct RF are so paltry, you do your watching, channel surfing and recording using the many channels available via the cable box which feeds your (video) IN3, yes?

My success with this dual input set-up has been fleeting but you seem to have a stable config where you get data via RF and that's all, yes?

Thanks,

Paul

Paul

I Feel Your Pain. Kinda hard to get that cork back into the Champagne bottle after just one sip.

I've been keeping a sort of log to see whether there's any pattern to what's been going on with my Panasonic eh75 regarding TVGOS and TW Manhattan cable. It seems that I get one complete download, then only a partial download the next day. Then nothing unless I perform a reset.

The day following the complete download my cable box gets blasted to channels 2, 13, and finally 157. This, despite the fact that there's no VBI data on channel 157 and I have never set it for that channel.

My guess is (and it's just a guess) that the data download contains information which includes the valid TVGOS channel(s) for a particular geographic area. This would seem to override the original VBI host channel. Even though my diagnostic screen lists 0.018 (RF input channel 18) as the "Host channel", that may not be the preferred channel for the local listings.
If Rovi, which makes up this listings package, mistakenly has digital 157 as the preferred channel for TW Manhattan in their database, it stands to reason that the TVGOS device would be programmed to look there for the next download. Of course there's no VBI on that channel, hence, no listings on the second overnight. In addition, the listings for "Cable, no cable box" do not even include ch.18, so there's no RF ch.18 in memory to link to.

In addition, the TVG programming seems to be replaced by an alternate program every Sunday for several hours, with the switch taking place downstream of the VBI data inserter, so there's no data feed at all for those hours, which sends my eh75 on an endless quest which only a manual reset will resolve. What a pain....

Reply to second post: Yes, watching and recording IN3, using RF as source of guide data only. As stated in previous post, it's been unreliable, but better than nothing.

radiotron, good to hear from you. And really good to hear it's not just me. I think our experience is near identical. Have you sent this info to Rovi? (I did) I have thier e-mail address if you want it or can forward your post if you like.


>In addition, the TVG programming seems to be replaced by an alternate program every Sunday for >several hours, with the switch taking place downstream of the VBI data inserter, so there's no data feed >at all for those hours, which sends my eh75 on an endless quest which only a manual reset will >resolve. What a pain....

Does this refer to ch18?

Paul

Yes, I excerpted my posting and sent it to Rovi, and yes ch18 and 157 here in upper Manhattan were effected. Except for the first time it happened; then it was only on ch 18.
I'm wondering whether this was city-wide, or just targeted neighborhoods (they do that with some local advertising so it is within technical capability of their system).

FWIW, here's some info from an ex-TVGOS user/troubleshooter with diff. equipment:

When I had a Pioneer 531, we Pio owners were endlessly trying to solve TVGOS problems, and some things we learned that helped us:

1. Reducing the number of channels in the TVGOS Channel List to "must-haves" or "nice-to-haves" reduced the "load" on the data maintenance function. I'd certainly try eliminating that ch. 157 from the channel list since it's one you know is being "searched" but it never finds any data.
   
   Deleting channels this way still allows you to timer rec them and tune them directly, they're just not in the CH+/- button memory or the TVGOS data load. This recently helped a DTVPal DVR user, so it still seems worth a try.
   
   
2. Eliminating duplicate channels you know your machine searches but never finds anything on. I'd even reduce your PBS channels to only one... these were the Pio's only source for TVGOS data. Not sure if PBS may still be "influencing" your TVGOS, but just in case, here's some info on that.
   
   I found that, even tho my state has only one PBS org that sent a common signal from central ops center, having 2 or 3 of those channels in local ch. memory, even tho they had the same identical signal, "confused" my TVGOS and it stopped filling in... deleting those to only one PBS channel, my local ops center station, fixed my TVGOS. New York has independent affiliates, so you've got several independent and "competing" signals your recorders *could* be picking up. There still might be some "PBS code" in your TVGOS (programmers are loathe to just delete something that MIGHT apply again), so it might be worth reducing your PBS channels to only one, just in case???

No experience with the dual setup configs, which sounds like something that could EASILY "confuse" or overload the "delicate" and easily crashable TVGOS system... the old one I knew so well!

Hi wajo,

Thanks so much for the TVGOS tips. The only upside of all the hassles lately is that folks like you and radiotron have taught me tons about TVGOS functionality and the controls. As you notice I've become very attached to it and ought know know more about how it works.

Ok, I'm not popping any champagne but I was was pleasantly shocked to turn on my eh55 this morning (Sat) to find it parked on ch157, the TV Guide channel from the cable box *and* that it had populated a schedule through the weekend. I'm too wary to rhapsodize about this and too worn down to speculate about its meaning. But I hope radiotron and others out there got some TVGOS schedule too.

What a wild ride.

Paul

Paul and All,
I'm happy to report that I got ads yesterday afternoon and listings this morning. When it's working it works! Paul, it proves that your set-up is viable as long as the data keeps flowing. Congratulations.