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Is it possible to turn a 6020FD into an ELITE? - Page 11

post #301 of 672
10/13/10 at 9:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBuck View Post

I had ChadB calibrate my 6020 E-lite today, and he improved it even more, as well as unlocking and calibrating the ISF Day and Night modes. My Pure mode color temp was running about 6272 and now he has it at a near perfect 6535. RGB was running between 94 and 106 before and was 99 to 101 after. The set was a little too green, and weak on blue even though I had it set to D-Nice's plus green settings for Pure Mode. No doubt sets vary from unit to unit. It was in the ballpark but not ideal. He also got my gamma to improve from 1.99 to 2.19. Delta E went from an ok 5.8 down to an excellent 0.6 The set looks amazing now. He said it calibrated exactly the same as the 151's he has done. I would highly recommend him. He seems to know these sets very well, and is a super nice guy as well.

Thanks for your Report
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post #302 of 672
10/14/10 at 8:18pm
I'm happy to report an uneventful board swap on my 5020. It fired right up and I couldn't be happier!
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post #303 of 672
10/14/10 at 11:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by run8 View Post

Greeting all. I did my board swap yesterday and had the ISF Day and Night modes Calibrated today By Dave Evans of 21st Century Calibrations in the Portland or. area. The swap was pretty easy, just lots of screws to keep track of. I ended up leaving the panel on the stand for the swap, I would have prefered to lay it face down on a table, but my helper could not make it. One wierd thing did occur, after I had the new board in, I turned the main Power button on, the panel would not turn, Just the Blue power led flashing
8 times then repeating. At that time there was not a lot of family oriented Language in the room. So I double checked all the connections, still the same thing. So I reinstalled the original board, No problems, fired right up . I then reinstalled the new board, this time it turned on with no problems, Had the Pure modes and Pro Adjust, What a Relief!!! Interestingly It still had all my Original picture adjustments and I believe my Original Calibrated Gray Scale.

Before I had it Calibrated today I expected an improvement, But not as Dramatic as this, Blacks are better, Shadow Detail and color are much improved I've attached Three calibration reports, The first (AVS) is my original Calibration from Two years ago, The other two (E-Lite ISF day and Night) are the new Calibrations after the swap. You can see theres a Big improvement Gray scale and Gamma errors. Finally a HUGE Thanks to TG1 to Boldly go where no one Dare go before, I Salute You, and Thanks to the rest of the members who kindly answered my Questions. I will now end this long winded Post, Because its Monday Night, ARE YOU READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL!!!!

Cheers,
Dennia

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanBuck View Post

I had ChadB calibrate my 6020 E-lite today, and he improved it even more, as well as unlocking and calibrating the ISF Day and Night modes. My Pure mode color temp was running about 6272 and now he has it at a near perfect 6535. RGB was running between 94 and 106 before and was 99 to 101 after. The set was a little too green, and weak on blue even though I had it set to D-Nice's plus green settings for Pure Mode. No doubt sets vary from unit to unit. It was in the ballpark but not ideal. He also got my gamma to improve from 1.99 to 2.19. Delta E went from an ok 5.8 down to an excellent 0.6 The set looks amazing now. He said it calibrated exactly the same as the 151's he has done. I would highly recommend him. He seems to know these sets very well, and is a super nice guy as well.

Congrats guys on getting your sets calibrated by pros. Thats great to hear your getting simular results as a 151. Just wish I could get an E-LITE badge for mine
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post #304 of 672
10/14/10 at 11:52pm
Thread Starter 
FYI: I updated the first post to include pertinent information to project E-LITE for easy reference. If anyone wants anything added let me know?
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post #305 of 672
10/15/10 at 6:21am
Here are 4 calibration charts for my 6020 E-lite. The first one is Pure Mode before calibration. The second one is Pure Mode after calibration. The third one is ISF Day mode. He aimed for 50 fL output on Day mode which seems about right. The last one is my calibrated ISF Night mode. He aimed for 36 fL on Night mode, which seems a bit too bright to my eyes if the room is totally dark. With one dim lamp on though it is perfect. If you like to watch in a totally dark room I would suggest a dimmer setting.

 

Alan Buck 151FD before Pure.pdf 171.544921875k . file

 

Alan Buck 151FD after Pure.pdf 169.8115234375k . file

 

Alan Buck 151FD after ISF day.pdf 168.4560546875k . file

 

Alan Buck 151FD after ISF night.pdf 169.611328125k . file
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post #306 of 672
10/15/10 at 8:01am
Wow, Great report Allan.
Its great to see that these displays are calibrating out to the level of an Elite after the mod. I had my display calibrated to just over 32 fl for ISF Night and like you I find in a totally dark room to bright, So I installed a back lght from CinemaQuest and now its perfect in a totally dark room.
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post #307 of 672
10/15/10 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by run8 View Post

Wow, Great report Allan.
Its great to see that these displays are calibrating out to the level of an Elite after the mod. I had my display calibrated to just over 32 fl for ISF Night and like you I find in a totally dark room to bright, So I installed a back lght from CinemaQuest and now its perfect in a totally dark room.

He calibrated my Pure Mode too, and I guess another option is just turn down contrast to the desired brightness level on the ocassions I want total dark room viewing..it doesn't seem to mess with the other aspects of the picture very much. I have a feeling we need to be at about 28 fL for comfortable dark room viewing.
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post #308 of 672
10/15/10 at 8:28am
It seems like its really source dependent too, on Dishnetwork there seems to be alot of variation on brightness between different channels and programs,sometimes spot on and other times clipping white.
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post #309 of 672
10/15/10 at 9:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by run8 View Post

It seems like its really source dependent too, on Dishnetwork there seems to be alot of variation on brightness between different channels and programs,sometimes spot on and other times clipping white.

For sure..that is one of the frustrations of calibration...we KNOW our sets are darn near perfect now, but the quality of the picture on various shows is all over the map..some are pale, some are oversaturated, some are too red, some too green, some super sharp, some blurry etc. Blu-rays offer a much more consistent experience to judge the quality of the set and its settings. The only time I watch in the dark is on Blu-ray movies.
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post #310 of 672
10/15/10 at 4:01pm
I cant believe this is possible now. I bought my 6020 and stayed away from this forum so that I can be happy with my new set. But boy am I glad I came back. I'm gonna have to do this upgrade.
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post #311 of 672
10/18/10 at 12:28pm
Indeed, this is quite tempting. Hmmm...


Quote:
Originally Posted by EricQ View Post

I cant believe this is possible now. I bought my 6020 and stayed away from this forum so that I can be happy with my new set. But boy am I glad I came back. I'm gonna have to do this upgrade.
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post #312 of 672
10/18/10 at 5:31pm
Hi all,
I have a 5020, what is the Part Number for the PC Board that will turn my 5020 into an Elite?

Thanks,
Bud B
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post #313 of 672
10/18/10 at 5:33pm
The correct part number has been mentioned several times throughout the thread.
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post #314 of 672
10/18/10 at 6:06pm
Yea I found it..AWW 1353.
My 5020 has the AWW 1352

Does anyone have the Part number for the small Panel that covers the AWW1353, then there is no Drilling or Panel Mod needed.

Thanks,
Bud B
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post #315 of 672
10/19/10 at 8:56am
Allow me to preface explaining my quandary by saying that I was pretty pleased with my initial DIY calibration on my 6020. My results were far from perfect, but I was happy with grayscale and gamma for the most part. The inaccurate colors annoyed me tremendously though.

So I swapped boards and, after confirming PURE mode was present, for better or worse I did the initialization procedure that wrinklefree cited from the manual. Right off I noticed color gamut was pretty spot on, a definite improvement over my former 6020.

So after plugging in most of D-Nice's settings (except for RGB offsets), I took a shot at calibrating my new E-Lite. I did not spend that much time on it, and actually stopped to write this when I noticed something alarming.

What alarmed me is that once I got a good portion of the color temperature at roughly 6500, the gamma line was no longer flat, but rather resembled the Grand Canyon. My once pristine luminance curve is messed up as well.

Also alarming is that my 100W blue and red measurements sharply diverge, and the corresponding DeltaE is high as well. No matter how high or low I knock RH and BH, those 100W readings will not flatten out.

I figured I could get the Elite profile from Turbe and manually bump the RGB gamma settings up at each point on the scale to compensate for the gamma dip, but I just have this feeling that something is seriously wrong. Do I need to re-install the old board and re-initialize again to correct this?

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

(Please excuse the appearance of my charts since I do not have CalMAN Pro, but rather Home edition.)
LL
LL
LL
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post #316 of 672
10/19/10 at 9:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoksterGAP View Post

Allow me to preface explaining my quandary by saying that I was pretty pleased with my initial DIY calibration on my 6020. My results were far from perfect, but I was happy with grayscale and gamma for the most part. The inaccurate colors annoyed me tremendously though.

So I swapped boards and, after confirming PURE mode was present, for better or worse I did the initialization procedure that wrinklefree cited from the manual. Right off I noticed color gamut was pretty spot on, a definite improvement over my former 6020.

So after plugging in most of D-Nice's settings (except for RGB offsets), I took a shot at calibrating my new E-Lite. I did not spend that much time on it, and actually stopped to write this when I noticed something alarming.

What alarmed me is that once I got a good portion of the color temperature at roughly 6500, the gamma line was no longer flat, but rather resembled the Grand Canyon. My once pristine luminance curve is messed up as well.

Also alarming is that my 100W blue and red measurements sharply diverge, and the corresponding DeltaE is high as well. No matter how high or low I knock RH and BH, those 100W readings will not flatten out.

I figured I could get the Elite profile from Turbe and manually bump the RGB gamma settings up at each point on the scale to compensate for the gamma dip, but I just have this feeling that something is seriously wrong. Do I need to re-install the old board and re-initialize again to correct this?

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

(Please excuse the appearance of my charts since I do not have CalMAN Pro, but rather Home edition.)


What did your chart look like before the board swap? Are you sure you're calibrating pure mode as it looks a lot like Standard?

Also make sure you have the light sensor and power save modes turned off.
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post #317 of 672
10/19/10 at 9:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrinklefree View Post

What did your chart look like before the board swap?

The first two charts I attached are pre- and post-calibration charts of my 6020 before the board swap. The third is my current E-Lite calibration-in-progress.

Quote:


Are you sure you're calibrating pure mode as it looks a lot like Standard?

It is Pure mode.

Quote:


Also make sure you have the light sensor and power save modes turned off.

Both are off.

Being relatively new to DIY calibration, I am no expert, but I am simply puzzled by the huge gamma dip in the third chart. Honestly my plasma does not look horrible. Colors actually look a lot more accurate to my eye. But I can't help but notice kind of a dark haziness throughout the picture. Perhaps knowledge of the gamma canyon curve is leading the witness.

In any case, I have been in contact with Turbe and he is sending me the E-Lite profile for ControlCAL. I will tinker with gamma settings in the ISFccc profiles and post results, which hopefully will be positive.
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post #318 of 672
10/19/10 at 9:48am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoksterGAP View Post

Allow me to preface explaining my quandary by saying that I was pretty pleased with my initial DIY calibration on my 6020. My results were far from perfect, but I was happy with grayscale and gamma for the most part. The inaccurate colors annoyed me tremendously though.

So I swapped boards and, after confirming PURE mode was present, for better or worse I did the initialization procedure that wrinklefree cited from the manual. Right off I noticed color gamut was pretty spot on, a definite improvement over my former 6020.

So after plugging in most of D-Nice's settings (except for RGB offsets), I took a shot at calibrating my new E-Lite. I did not spend that much time on it, and actually stopped to write this when I noticed something alarming.

What alarmed me is that once I got a good portion of the color temperature at roughly 6500, the gamma line was no longer flat, but rather resembled the Grand Canyon. My once pristine luminance curve is messed up as well.

Also alarming is that my 100W blue and red measurements sharply diverge, and the corresponding DeltaE is high as well. No matter how high or low I knock RH and BH, those 100W readings will not flatten out.

I figured I could get the Elite profile from Turbe and manually bump the RGB gamma settings up at each point on the scale to compensate for the gamma dip, but I just have this feeling that something is seriously wrong. Do I need to re-install the old board and re-initialize again to correct this?

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

(Please excuse the appearance of my charts since I do not have CalMAN Pro, but rather Home edition.)

Did you ever change the RGB High/low in the service menu? I was having a similar problem With both 100W and gamma though the gamma wasn't that bad. If you have the original SM RGB values I would try that. I do not have mine but through trial and error I was able to fix the 100W. I don't remember what my gamma looked like in pure since I primarily use ISF modes and those will let you customize gamma.
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post #319 of 672
10/19/10 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TG_ONE View Post

Did you ever change the RGB High/low in the service menu? I was having a similar problem With both 100W and gamma though the gamma wasn't that bad. If you have the original SM RGB values I would try that. I do not have mine but through trial and error I was able to fix the 100W. I don't remember what my gamma looked like in pure since I primarily use ISF modes and those will let you customize gamma.

I did adjust RGB in the service menu when it was still a 6020, but I switched them back to their original settings before the board swap. Are you saying you made SM changes after the swap in addition to Pro Adjust settings?
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post #320 of 672
10/19/10 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoksterGAP View Post

The first two charts I attached are pre- and post-calibration charts of my 6020 before the board swap. The third is my current E-Lite calibration-in-progress.



It is Pure mode.



Both are off.

I am no expert, but I am simply puzzled by the huge gamma dip in the third chart. Honestly when I watch the plasma now, colors look a lot more accurate to my eye. But I can't help but notice kind of a dark haziness throughout the picture. Perhaps knowledge of the gamma canyon curve is leading the witness.


Thats strange. Your set should have the same calibrated RGB values after the board swap and shouldn't require such drastic offsets in Pure mode. The gamma plunge is suspect too.

1. When you calibrated your 6020FD before the swap did you apply the offsets to both the 60hz and 72hz tables?

2. Can you verify all of the additional settings, such as black level etc match those of D-Nice recommendations?

3. What are you using for source patterns?

4. What is your pure cinema setting in Pure?
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post #321 of 672
10/19/10 at 10:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrinklefree View Post

1. When you calibrated your 6020FD before the swap did you apply the offsets to both the 60hz and 72hz tables?

I only applied the offsets to the 60Hz tables. I switched them back to original values before the board swap.

Quote:
2. Can you verify all of the additional settings, such as black level etc match those of D-Nice recommendations?

I matched all of D-Nice's settings -- http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...96&postcount=6 -- except for Contrast which I set at 40 and color settings, which I left alone before calibration.

Quote:
3. What are you using for source patterns?

I am using the AVS HD disc in a Panny BD player.

Quote:
4. What is your pure cinema setting in Pure?

Advance.
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post #322 of 672
10/19/10 at 10:17am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoksterGAP View Post

I did adjust RGB in the service menu when it was still a 6020, but I switched them back to their original settings before the board swap. Are you saying you made SM changes after the swap in addition to Pro Adjust settings?

You can still use controlcal non-elite profile to change the rgb in the service menu post board swap. I know it's strange but the rgb adjustment in the SM pre and post board swap act differently. Pre swap the adjusment was linear at each IRE increment and gamma stayed linear. Post swap the rgb will still adjust the same way in the SM but depending on where each one is set you will get a different gamma curve and 100W changes as well. For example: rgb's set at 500, 500, 500 will produce a different gamma curve then 550, 550 , 550. I just had to play around with it until 100W was as flat as the rest. The gamma was much more flat once I got 100W flat.
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post #323 of 672
10/19/10 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TG_ONE View Post

You can still use controlcal non-elite profile to change the rgb in the service menu post board swap.

Thank you for the tip. But I assume that I can't use the NE profile to make RGB changes in ISF-Day/Night/Auto modes once I unlock them, right? Do the ISF profiles allow SM RGB adjustment as well, or is it only through Pro Adjust settings now?
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post #324 of 672
10/19/10 at 10:27am
I have come across your gamma curve one before. It was on a defective 111FD. It will also show on the ISF modes. You can try another board, but I'm not sure that will fix it.

BTW, your blue channel is dying at reference white because you have the contrast too high. You need to reduce the contrast to 36 or 35.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoksterGAP View Post

Allow me to preface explaining my quandary by saying that I was pretty pleased with my initial DIY calibration on my 6020. My results were far from perfect, but I was happy with grayscale and gamma for the most part. The inaccurate colors annoyed me tremendously though.

So I swapped boards and, after confirming PURE mode was present, for better or worse I did the initialization procedure that wrinklefree cited from the manual. Right off I noticed color gamut was pretty spot on, a definite improvement over my former 6020.

So after plugging in most of D-Nice's settings (except for RGB offsets), I took a shot at calibrating my new E-Lite. I did not spend that much time on it, and actually stopped to write this when I noticed something alarming.

What alarmed me is that once I got a good portion of the color temperature at roughly 6500, the gamma line was no longer flat, but rather resembled the Grand Canyon. My once pristine luminance curve is messed up as well.

Also alarming is that my 100W blue and red measurements sharply diverge, and the corresponding DeltaE is high as well. No matter how high or low I knock RH and BH, those 100W readings will not flatten out.

I figured I could get the Elite profile from Turbe and manually bump the RGB gamma settings up at each point on the scale to compensate for the gamma dip, but I just have this feeling that something is seriously wrong. Do I need to re-install the old board and re-initialize again to correct this?

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

(Please excuse the appearance of my charts since I do not have CalMAN Pro, but rather Home edition.)
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post #325 of 672
10/19/10 at 10:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I have come across your gamma curve one before. It was on a defective 111FD. It will also show on the ISF modes. You can try another board, but I'm not sure that will fix it.

BTW, your blue channel is dying at reference white because you have the contrast too high. You need to reduce the contrast to 36 or 35.

Thanks for the advice, D-Nice. I'll bring contrast down a bit.

Do you think adjusting gamma at different IREs in the ISF modes can compensate for the deficient gamma curve? Would it even come close?
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post #326 of 672
10/19/10 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoksterGAP View Post

Thanks for the advice, D-Nice. I'll bring contrast down a bit.

Do you think adjusting gamma at different IREs in the ISF modes can compensate for the deficient gamma curve? Would it even come close?

No. There is nothing that will correct that gamma. You're either going to have to try another board or be stuck with the normal 6020FD's board.
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post #327 of 672
10/19/10 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoksterGAP View Post

Thanks for the advice, D-Nice. I'll bring contrast down a bit.

Do you think adjusting gamma at different IREs in the ISF modes can compensate for the deficient gamma curve? Would it even come close?

My gamma is nearly dead flat in Pure Mode after the board swap. It checked nearly perfect before and after ChadB did my calibration. In fact it checked 2.20 before he calibrated it. Strange that yours is whacked out.
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post #328 of 672
10/19/10 at 11:57am
Anyone know if there is a cheaper place than through pioneer to get the board? Anyone have luck with shopjimmy, cuz someone mentioned they would only sell it to them if they were a licensed tv repair person?
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post #329 of 672
10/19/10 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

No. There is nothing that will correct that gamma. You're either going to have to try another board or be stuck with the normal 6020FD's board.

I hear ya. Thank you for figuring out what the problem was, D-Nice. Unfortunately I can't return this board because I already snipped off the extra connector.

Faced with a choice -- crappy colors vs. crappy gamma -- I went ahead and ordered another board from Pioneer. I figured sometimes you take one on the chin, but ya gotta bounce back up. As long as I haven't blown up this soon-to-be permanent E-Lite, I'm not giving up.
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post #330 of 672
10/19/10 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by abc123puck View Post

Anyone know if there is a cheaper place than through pioneer to get the board? Anyone have luck with shopjimmy, cuz someone mentioned they would only sell it to them if they were a licensed tv repair person?

I know someone posted that, but they sold over the phone to me with not a mention of any such rule. However after buying I became aware that they are selling recycled parts from damaged or returned products. I came out fine and my set works great, but I would try to buy from a source with brand new parts. Also if you do this swap, drill a hole in the back panel instead of cutting down the port on the board that sticks out too far. That way the board can be returned if defective.
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