Possible "Solution" for a White Ceiling?

Originally Posted by Fabricator

that would do about half of it. the problem is, the white ceiling will reflect light back to the screen, and reduce the quality of the image.

Originally Posted by fourtytwoinch

Report back when you get it done.

I've seen people do this in pictures. It was sagged down a bit.

Originally Posted by MississippiMan

OK Guys.....,

As Fabricator so deftly brought to point, the issue is more related as to what reflected light bouncing back "toward and onto" the screen will do to you image's contrast and color than anything else. After all, it's the image on screen you should be looking at most often, not the light show your ceiling is producing.

In this case, by virtue of the OP's statement, the Screen's top edge isn't limited to being 6'...12"....or even 18 " from the 7' Ceiling.

Oh No.....we can go 24"! I'll say from experience that if the Screen's edge is 24" down from the Ceiling, the Ceiling will have far less effect on the image than it is being given here.

If the OP can place the Screen at that height, and darken his walls, I don't think he'll be having any bothersome issues by leaving the Ceiling white....and "as is". Absolutely, setting the system up under that, as well as those previously mentioned stipulations is the first step, followed by some evaluation oriented viewing.

But if he does find the "light wash" from off the forward 4' of Ceiling that occurs during brightly lit scenes, is particularly obnoxious when experienced in a totally darkened room, then simply stapling up 48" wide bolt of Triple Black Velvet across the ceiling directly over the Screen will solve that handily, and the couple dozen 3/8" Flat Staple holes patch up later as easy as can be with one application of Spackle. A quicky "Rolled paint" touch up and whose the wiser...eh?

I won't tell.

....but if asked to testify, it was all your idea, naturally. .

Originally Posted by MississippiMan

Looks better. Absorbs light better.

It's just plain 'Mo Bedder.

ohcello,

You'll do Ok. Get a Epson 8100 (1800 lumens) or similar LCD
make those walls become as dark a "Flat" sheen as you can.
Brown is better than Tan.

I'm working on a easy solution to your Ceiling issue....stay tuned.

Originally Posted by MississippiMan

If it ain't Flat......it will shine to some degree...but that might not happen if you chose the wrong paint solution because at 120" diagonal from 18.5 feet, even with a 1.0 gain surface (Gray or White) the best you'll get is 12 fl. even with a Epson 6500ub.


True enough. But "Tan or Brown" with a Blue?
If I was an "Interior Decorator type" I'd be throwing a hissy fit about now. But I'm not and
still it kinda grates on my sensibilities having seen so many 'right" color combos.

If you gotta have Tan or Brown, then go to a Ultra Dark Brown Ceiling with matching Trim (Base/Windows in Satin)



Your overlooking a great idea your already responsible for seeding. Paint the Screen Wall the same Color as the Ceiling, letting that dark effect wrap down around the Screen./Shade



There has to be a better combo than Brown/Tan and Dark Blue.........

****



If you have ambient Light that strikes the Screen...and its a Matte White surface....it will wash it out. The Walls & Ceilings being a correct color / sheen only bespeaks that they will not contribute to the distraction. But allow the light from a lamp or window to enter even a BLACKED out rrom, and with a White Screen, the Screen's image will suffer.

Here's a good suggestion. Go with a Medium shade Bluish Gray on the walls, and use that Dark Blue on the Ceiling. You could consider the Glidden Color "Misty Evening" for the walls. Years ago it was a popular "OCW" Screen paint (OCW = One Can Wonder) just prior to the advent of Behr Silver Screen.

Paint all the Walls with Misty Evening, but mix the Screen wall's portion as a Silver Fire 1.0, pull down the Ceiling Color as a "Trim" surrounding the Screen area, and hit the Screen wall with the image from the 6500ub.

You might just stop there, (...the Screen wall will look Black...believe me...) but adding some Black Velvet surface trim around the edges of the Screen area is a mighty nice touch.





Ok...back to the Sheen of the Wall paint. At "...a few inches...." you had better make those walls as dark...and as Flat a color as you can or suffer the consequences. And there will be consequences otherwise, made worse by using ANYTHING other than a Flat. I can't make that any clearer.

Once again, Intelligent Design can come into play. Besides the Screen Wall, wrap the Ceiling Color down and around the two adjoining Side walls about 4' off the Screen wall. Maybe add an angle where the Top of the Angle starts at 4' and the Bottom hits the Baseboard at 6'. All you have to do is just "Mask" that ultra close in reflected light from the Screen with a really dark, FLAT sheen-ed surface and you can paint those Walls that lie outside outside that area with your Matte or Satin paint of Choice.

Originally Posted by MississippiMan

Absolutely on point one, negatory on question 2. With the PJ on Low lamp for maximum Contrast, as well as minimizing the use of the Auto Iris feature, having a Gray Screen with 1.1 to 1.2 gain will be about perfect for your situation. Use the balance between reducing the PJ's Lumen output and having a positive gain High Contrast surface to shoot on will create a perfect image for your needs.



I heard that! Your bound to still get some reflected light headed back toward the Screen, but a positive gain Gray screen will combat the effect of such better than any other alternative besides going with the different room colors that would themselves eliminate the problem. Ya said ya can't go there, so where your heading is the next best solution for sure.

Originally Posted by MississippiMan

No matter what, if you want to use Low lamp mode and still have a vibrant image, you want to stay at least slightly above 1.0 gain.

Few who have set their hearts on a bigger screen are ever satisfied with going smaller.

Thanks. What's amazing is that some people actually bother to read any of it.

Originally Posted by MississippiMan

First off the emphasis is not about Bulb Life here, but having adequate light reflected back to the viewer at the screen size you desire. Contrast is King as far as determining image quality along the lines of Color gradients, Shadow detail combined with the depth of shading of the darkest elements as opposed to the brightest elements of the image.

Most Brighter PJs always have a harder time maintaining decent Contrast (...as well as accurate Color balance....) in Normal Lamp mode so when they are calibrated, almost ALWAYS it's done with the PJ on Low Lamp.

Epson's latest "UB" units employ a infinitely adjustable Iris that automatically opens and closes based upon both the room's brightness, and the brightness level of the projected content. As such, it's main forte is producing the absolute deepest levels of Black....but averaging out all the rest. That leaves the rest of the Content with less deeper Blacks than otherwise desired, or that can be produced by PJs that, wile they cannot achieve 70K:1 Contrast, they DO produce deeper "averaged out across the board" Black levels.

When I use an Epson, I use it with a High Gain Gray Screen (SF or RS-Maxx) and reduce the action of the Iris to a minimum level. Often I maintain High lamp so I can blast a darker Gray surface, one that is larger than most. The combination of a Darker surface that still has a positive Gain factor, and a bright but still contrasty image coming from the PJ produces a better overall image than the Epson can muster with a White Screen in a dark room. With such a High Contrast/High gain surface, you can achieve a great balance between Brightness and Contrast-oriented depth, resulting in an extremely "3-D" like image. (...another good argument (er...suggestion...) to approach the Wife with....)

All that is not discredit to the Epson, mind you....just a realization that with the proper set-up, the Epson can perform to it's maximum potential instead of using it's attributes to try to perform "up to" expectations. You can believe that everything about how the Epsons are designed is to help alleviate the undesirable conditions often faced by the average user. If the "Dedicated Home Theater" sect was still the only targeted market, we would not be seeing the "Uber Contrast w/Brightness" approach being taken. All of that is to make the PJs more attractive to the Common man.



I'd not bother with 4" to 6". The reflected light from the Screen will not be coming out at a 90 degree right angle to center, so that small an area will not be of any real advantage except to frame that end of the Room.

Yeah, it's hard to convince even someone who WANTS to know how something affects overall performance if they both do not fathom the nuances, nor really care much about them. Wives can usually land squarely in that description..

Straight up, unless you can mask off at least " 4 FEET " of the side walls with a light suppressive paint solution, don't even bother.

There is a right way to do this...and a wrong way....as well as whatever way your forced to do it in. If the latter is part and parcel to the second item, well ya really just have to accept that. No amount of hopeful wishing...or running the PJ on Low lamp is going to magically make things any different that what has been described as going to happen otherwise. Nor will using any type Screen application compensate for a overly reflective wall residing just inches away from a Screen's edge. The only real hope you have, short of castrating your Screen size inward to the point it reduces sideways reflections by virtue of being smaller, is to firmly point out to the Little Woman why such painting considerations are necessary, allow her to convince you to do it her way at first, then let her see the end result and how it affects the overall situation.

After you say; "See....I told ya so...." (...iffin ya dare....) if there is a chance you'll be able to recoup and repaint those side walls, that will be the time.

I sincerely hope it pans out that way for ya.

BTW, thank YOU for being so willing to read my opinionated discourse. In my rush to try to make anyone's project measure up to standards I hold myself to, I can get a bit more effusive than most. But hopefully...and most of the time, my enthusiastic and often pointed remarks should/can be taken for what they are....advice tendered with only the best possible intentions toward the recipient and his project.

Originally Posted by MississippiMan

You don't have to go "all over creation' to assemble RS-MaxxMudd or MMud-SE, but you do have to go to 2 stores. for that matter, if Michaels has everything that needs to come from them, then even Silver Fire is a '2-Stop Shop'.

RS-MaxxMudd then. Standard mix.

I hope your good with a Roller though.

Originally Posted by MississippiMan

Since you'd want to spray the SF on, and the Color components add to the cost of the base Paints & Sprayer (Wagner), you'd probably bust through that $70.00 ceiling to the tune of approx. $100.00 instead.



You will need to prime the Screen wall area where the Screen surface will be....at the least.

Let's be certain of this, if you decide to use Silver Fire, you'll spray it on in 4 Coats, 1 "Duster" and two "normal" coats, followed by another Duster.

If it's RS-MaxxMudd, then Rolling can be considered. 3 normal (not thick) coats over a 2x primed surface.

Be advised though that just recently I've been helping a fellow AVS'er who rolled on RS-Maxxmudd and got a few of those dreaded "Roller Marks". He related that the image he got was absolutely stunning, but he found that...as so many have when rolling on any type paint....that it seems that he can't help but notice AND focus his attention to the Roller Marks whenever they appear during brightly lit scenes.

Any high contrast surface, and especially one that contains metallic-s, is very susceptible to showing the defects that exist in either the application of such, or existing imperfections on the surface itself. Such is the price/risk you take when striving for true High performance in a reflective surface.

But if you spray that risk is reduced to almost zero. So the aforementioned Gentleman is making up some additional RS-MaxxMudd, and re-priming (via rolling) and then "Spraying" it on with his newly acquired Wagner CS-HD

As PB suggested, using a RS-MaxxMudd mix with an increased portion of the pure White paint will effectively make Rolling it on a lot less of a concern. This is certainly a better option than omitting the use of the metallic-s altogether.

I say stick with my original suggestion of RS-MaxxMudd Standard but do everything you can to consider spraying it on. That singular decision will spell a important difference as to just how high the performance-to-effort ratio develops. Also, you'll spend about the same...including the Wagner....for both applications. SF Colorant Mix adds about $25.00 to the cost of the the paint mix beyond the components needed for RS-MaxxMudd itself.

If you do decide to pull out all stops and go for SF 2.0-Sprayed, I'll do anything short of Kidnapping the Wife to help your project realize your greatest expectations....and beyond. Just ask.

Originally Posted by MississippiMan

Not just any "Power Painter" but this specific one.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_51589-97-CON...Ntk=i_products

The one shown in the Link is the Older Control Spray, but Lowes also has the newer "Double Duty" for the same price...or close.

The Bad Boy among Wagner HVLPs is the Control Spray Plus.
http://www.gleempaint.com/wagner-con...pray-plus.html

With that Sprayer you can paint a ROOM, yet maintain precise enough control to produce a ultra smooth Screen surface. It's the one I use now almost exclusively, perhaps more because it cuts my old Spraying times a full 50%...and they were already pretty darn short!!!!

Simply speaking, it's made a simple job simply faster to accomplish.



It's a Gray paint with some added metallic content. I have often suggested that formula (...as I myself 1st advocated it....) for those who were determined to use SS but still wanted a little boost for whites & lighter colors.

That's what it is....a little boost that makes that mix a little better than stock Silver Screen. But it's not comparable to either of the more advanced mixes.