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EDID Overrides to solve bitstreaming issues for ATI 5xxx's - Page 8

post #211 of 3908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

devmgr_show_nonpresent_devices=1

FYI, you can set this in your environment variables and it will always be enabled when you go to the device manager. For Win 7:
  1. Right click "My Computer" and select "Properties".
  2. Click "Advanced System Settings" on the left.
  3. Click the "Environment Variables" button at the bottom of the "Advanced" tab.
  4. Create a new "User Variable" to add it for just the current user or "System Variable" for all users.

The setting takes effect immediately on Windows 7, not sure about Vista.
post #212 of 3908
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer View Post

Yes it was an Albian build

Ran the check and found five Generic drivers. No Denon Override. I would have been surprised if it was there after requesting deletion during removal.

I also tried to see if I could load the file without using my install directory and Win 7 could not find it.

One final confirmation, you may recall that I cannot use my PJ and Kuro with different parameters when the Override is in place. That restriction is now gone and I have full control over both displays.

In no way it works with my DENON 988, definitely. Gave it a last try with 3246 build, CAT 10.2 & Realtek 2.42.
post #213 of 3908
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

FYI, you can set this in your environment variables and it will always be enabled when you go to the device manager. For Win 7:
  1. Right click "My Computer" and select "Properties".
  2. Click "Advanced System Settings" on the left.
  3. Click the "Environment Variables" button at the bottom of the "Advanced" tab.
  4. Create a new "User Variable" to add it for just the current user or "System Variable" for all users.

The setting takes effect immediately on Windows 7, not sure about Vista.

Nice, vladd, thx.
post #214 of 3908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

In no way it works with my DENON 988, definitely. Gave it a last try with 3246 build, CAT 10.2 & Realtek 2.42.

Tulli, I updated my firmware about four weeks ago, now at the time this did not by itself resolve my EDID issue but perhaps it is part of the fix. Are you able to upgrade the firmware in your Denon?
post #215 of 3908
Thread Starter 
No, no new firmwares for the 988 AFAIK (besides the other 2 that have been available since release). Anyway, I get DTS HD and TrueHD on this same AVR with a XONAR HDAV 1.3 without needing an EDID override. So the problem is ATI driver related.

Anyway so far you´re the only lucky one with a DENON! Let´s see if other DENON AVP A1 users show up with a positive report.
post #216 of 3908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

No, no new firmwares for the 988 AFAIK (besides the other 2 that have been available since release). Anyway, I get DTS HD and TrueHD on this same AVR with a XONAR HDAV 1.3 without needing an EDID override. So the problem is ATI driver related.

Anyway so far you´re the only lucky one with a DENON! Let´s see if other DENON AVP A1 users show up with a positive report.

I'll try installing 10.2 and remove my monitor override and report back.
post #217 of 3908
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I'll try installing 10.2 and remove my monitor override and report back.

Don't forget the new V2.42 Realtek driver!
post #218 of 3908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer View Post

Don't forget the new V2.42 Realtek driver!

I'm using ArcSoft TMT, so no Realtek driver for me at the moment if I want bitstreaming...
post #219 of 3908
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I'm using ArcSoft TMT, so no Realtek driver for me at the moment if I want bitstreaming...

The driver might be pivotal to the result. Would it be possible for you to load the driver temporarily and use WMC for testing purposes?
post #220 of 3908
Thread Starter 
@Beamer, have you tried with the ATI HDMI audio driver? That should be easier to test .
post #221 of 3908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

@Beamer, have you tried with the ATI HDMI audio driver? That should be easier to test .

Just tested with

ATI driver 7.11.0.7700 13/11/2009

ATI driver 7.11.0.7703 21/01/2010

Dolby TrueHD & DTS HD MSTR both worked fine.

I did have one strange experience when I switched on for testing with the Realtek 2.42 driver loaded. Initially I could only get DTS-HD working. Dolby True HD passed through as stereo, this was also confirmed on the ffdshow status, similar scenario to the EDID issue.

When I rebooted with my display and amplifier switched on, I was able to play both DTS-HD & Dolby True HD. My initial boot did not have the Kuro or amplifier on.

I hope this helps.
post #222 of 3908
Thread Starter 
Sure, that makes it easier for gsr & other DENON AVP A1 users to test, as ffdshow setup for WMP/7MC can get tricky sometimes .

Thanks, Beamer!
post #223 of 3908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer View Post

The driver might be pivotal to the result. Would it be possible for you to load the driver temporarily and use WMC for testing purposes?

I'd honestly rather not go to the effort to get WMC configured for this right now. I try to keep my HTPC as simple and stable as reasonably possible. I had planned to try the 10.2 drivers tonight, but left work late and watching Lost was a higher priority . Will try to get to this in the next day or so.
post #224 of 3908
Seems I'm not alone and other Denon models are now working http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=5276
post #225 of 3908
Hi Tulli,

Thanks for your effort.
I can bitstream both TrueHD and DTS-HD master audio to my AMP with no problem, but I've got some problem with my display Panasonic PT-AE3000 projector. When I choose RGB 4:4:4 full pixel format, my 5770 still outputs 16-235. Do you think this can be fixed by updating EDID? If so what shall I do?

Thanks a lot!

The EDID:
Monitor
Model name............... AE-3000
Manufacturer............. Panasonic
Plug and Play ID......... MEID08E
Serial number............ 0x14460011
Manufacture date......... 2008, ISO week 0
-------------------------
EDID revision............ 1.3
Input signal type........ Digital
Color bit depth.......... Undefined
Display type............. RGB color
Screen size.............. Undefined or variable
Power management......... Not supported
Extension blocs.......... 1 (CEA-EXT)
-------------------------
DDC/CI support........... Not supported

Color characteristics
Default color space...... Non-sRGB
Display gamma............ 2.20
Red chromaticity......... Rx 0.649 - Ry 0.342
Green chromaticity....... Gx 0.326 - Gy 0.649
Blue chromaticity........ Bx 0.139 - By 0.050
White point (default).... Wx 0.284 - Wy 0.334
Additional descriptors... None

Timing characteristics
Horizontal scan range.... 28-68kHz
Vertical scan range...... 24-61Hz
Video bandwidth.......... 150MHz
CVT standard............. Not supported
GTF standard............. Not supported
Additional descriptors... None
Preferred timing......... Yes
Native/preferred timing.. 1920x1080i at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74.250 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1094 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #1....... 1920x1080i at 50Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74.250 1920 2448 2492 2640 1080 1148 1158 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync

Standard timings supported

EIA/CEA-861 Information
Revision number.......... 3
DTV underscan............ Not supported
Basic audio.............. Not supported
YCbCr 4:4:4.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:2:2.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:2:2.............. Supported
Native formats........... 1
Detailed timing #1....... 1920x1080p at 24Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74.250 1920 2558 2602 2750 1080 1116 1121 1125 +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #2....... 720x480p at 60Hz (4:3)
Modeline............... "720x480" 27.000 720 736 798 858 480 489 495 525 -hsync -vsync
Detailed timing #3....... 720x576p at 50Hz (4:3)
Modeline............... "720x576" 27.000 720 732 796 864 576 581 586 625 -hsync -vsync
Detailed timing #4....... 1280x720p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1280x720" 74.250 1280 1390 1430 1650 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #5....... 1280x720p at 50Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1280x720" 74.250 1280 1720 1760 1980 720 741 746 750 +hsync +vsync

CE timings supported
1920 x 1080i at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080i at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1280 x 720p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1280 x 720p at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080p at 24Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
720 x 480p at 60Hz - EDTV (4:3, 8:9)
720 x 576p at 50Hz - EDTV (4:3, 16:15)
640 x 480p at 60Hz - Default (4:3, 1:1)
1920 x 1080p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080p at 50Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
NB: NTSC refresh rate = (Hz*1000)/1001

CE vendor specific data (VSDB)
IEEE registration number. 0x000C03
CEC physical address..... 0x0020
Maximum TMDS clock....... 165MHz
Data payload............. 26
post #226 of 3908
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer View Post

Seems I'm not alone and other Denon models are now working http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=5276

Well, did some experiments:
  1. First, I made an override for my DENON 988 with the audio block of the AVP A1 ... it didn't work (on CAT 10.2).

  2. I then compared the AVP A1 audio block with the one we're using in this thread, taken from an Onkyo 906.

    Here's the AVP A1 Audio block, in its specific order in format & number of channels:

    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
    LPCM 8 DTS 6 AC3 6 DTS HD 8 E-AC3 8 TrueHD 6 TrueHD 8 DSD 6

    And here's the Onkyo's:

    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
    LPCM 2 LPCM 8 AC3 8 DTS 8 DSD 6 E-AC3 8 DTS HD 8 TrueHD 8

    Some things to note on the DENON audio block:


    - 6 Channels specifications for DTS, AC3 & TrueHD

    - 2 TrueHD specifications!

    I tried:


    - Moving the DTS HD & TrueHD descriptors to the end of the audio block. I didn't work.

    - Removing the 6 TrueHD descriptor. I didn't work


Conclusions:
  • The DENON Audio block looks careless or crappy, when compared to the Onkyo's. But whatever it is, it is clear that the ATI driver is having issues parsing it.

  • I have no clue as to how it's working for you or Trapo on the other thread, but it's not reproducible on my setup.
post #227 of 3908
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by somy View Post

Hi Tulli,

Thanks for your effort.
I can bitstream both TrueHD and DTS-HD master audio to my AMP with no problem, but I've got some problem with my display Panasonic PT-AE3000 projector. When I choose RGB 4:4:4 full pixel format, my 5770 still outputs 16-235. Do you think this can be fixed by updating EDID? If so what shall I do?

Thanks a lot!

Maybe, it's worth trying. But I need the Hex DUMP, not the descriptions, of both the projector & the AVR EDIDs to make a mod. Look at section 3 in the OP for instructions.
post #228 of 3908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

Well, did some experiments:
  1. First, I made an override for my DENON 988 with the audio block of the AVP A1 ... it didn't work (on CAT 10.2).
  2. I then compared the AVP A1 audio block with the one we're using in this thread, taken from an Onkyo 906.

    Here's the AVP A1 Audio block, in its specific order in format & number of channels:

    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
    LPCM 8 DTS 6 AC3 6 DTS HD 8 E-AC3 8 TrueHD 6 TrueHD 8 DSD 6
    And here's the Onkyo's:

    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
    LPCM 2 LPCM 8 AC3 8 DTS 8 DSD 6 E-AC3 8 DTS HD 8 TrueHD 8
    Some things to note on the DENON audio block:


    - 6 Channels specifications for DTS, AC3 & TrueHD

    - 2 TrueHD specifications!

    I tried:


    - Moving the DTS HD & TrueHD descriptors to the end of the audio block. I didn't work.

    - Removing the 6 TrueHD descriptor. I didn't work


Conclusions:
  • The DENON Audio block looks careless or crappy, when compared to the Onkyo's. But whatever it is, it is clear that the ATI driver is having issues parsing it.
  • I have no clue as to how it's working for you or Trapo on the other thread, but it's not reproducible on my setup.

I agree it's very strange.

Further to my earlier note, without the EDID override, reliability of Dolby True HD is definitely reduced. I need to make a fresh boot to make it work. Resuming from sleep mode just gives me 2 channel pass through!
post #229 of 3908
Actually it makes sense because without an override, you can bitstream TrueHD in PDVD9, but, MPC-HC/ffdshow won't work because it's sending a format that's not allowed by the EDID on the Denon. We've seen this illustrated on doom9. Now all the pieces fall into place.
post #230 of 3908
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

Actually it makes sense because without an override, you can bitstream TrueHD in PDVD9, but, MPC-HC/ffdshow won't work because it's sending a format that's not allowed by the EDID on the Denon. We've seen this illustrated on doom9. Now all the pieces fall into place.

Could you clarify, why does it make sense when I can play TrueHD using WMC after a fresh boot without the EDID override?
post #231 of 3908
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer View Post

I agree it's very strange.

Further to my earlier note, without the EDID override, reliability of Dolby True HD is definitely reduced. I need to make a fresh boot to make it work. Resuming from sleep mode just gives me 2 channel pass through!

Well, that happens sometimes to me with the override ...

Anyway I'll keep playing around with 10.2 & no override to see if I find the trick.
post #232 of 3908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer View Post

Could you clarify, why does it make sense when I can play TrueHD using WMC after a fresh boot without the EDID override?

That's not the part that made sense to me. The edid difference Tulli pointed out explain a different issue we've seen.
post #233 of 3908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

- Moving the DTS HD & TrueHD descriptors to the end of the audio block. I didn't work.

- Removing the 6 TrueHD descriptor. I didn't work

Those were the two things that I tried with your EDID when we first started this whole override thing. I found it odd then too that the EDID looked like that and I found it odd that changing it didn't solve the issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

Actually it makes sense because without an override, you can bitstream TrueHD in PDVD9, but, MPC-HC/ffdshow won't work because it's sending a format that's not allowed by the EDID on the Denon. We've seen this illustrated on doom9. Now all the pieces fall into place.

You're absolutely right! Why didn't I make that connection before?
post #234 of 3908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

Well, that happens sometimes to me with the override ...

Anyway I'll keep playing around with 10.2 & no override to see if I find the trick.

Can you play DTS-HD without the override?
post #235 of 3908
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer View Post

Can you play DTS-HD without the override?

Yes, no problem with DTS HD without the override.
post #236 of 3908
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

Actually it makes sense because without an override, you can bitstream TrueHD in PDVD9, but, MPC-HC/ffdshow won't work because it's sending a format that's not allowed by the EDID on the Denon. We've seen this illustrated on doom9. Now all the pieces fall into place.

That's not what I get. After uninstalling the override I can't bistream TrueHD on PDVD9, and as I get no third audio option, no DTS HD bitstreaming either.
post #237 of 3908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

That's not what I get. After uninstalling the override I can't bistream TrueHD on PDVD9, and as I get no third audio option, no DTS HD bitstreaming either.

Yea, I understand. But someone on doom9 has a situation where they can bitstream TrueHD in PDVD9 and NOT bitstream it in ffdshow. Turns out ffdshow is sending the wavetype format as 192/8 channel and his EDID info says it only accepts the wavetype format as 96/6 according to what he debugged. So, this does make sense in that the EDID info from the receiver is what's causing that issue. Clearly ffdshow should be dealing with that somehow, but, at least we get an idea of what's going on now.
post #238 of 3908
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

Yea, I understand. But someone on doom9 has a situation where they can bitstream TrueHD in PDVD9 and NOT bitstream it in ffdshow. Turns out ffdshow is sending the wavetype format as 192/8 channel and his EDID info says it only accepts the wavetype format as 96/6 according to what he debugged. So, this does make sense in that the EDID info from the receiver is what's causing that issue. Clearly ffdshow should be dealing with that somehow, but, at least we get an idea of what's going on now.

Yes, this post, right? 192hz is in fact not supported in the TrueHD descriptor for 8 channels in the DENON 1910 EDID. But it's the same with the 1909, the AVP A1 and my own 988.

Solution here is of course an EDID override with any of the custom mods in the OP, but I will try now to just modify that descriptor in my 988 EDID and see if I can bitstream . Maybe that's the issue ... will come back in a moment with results...
post #239 of 3908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

Yes, this post, right? 192hz is in fact not supported in the TrueHD descriptor for 8 channels in the DENON 1910 EDID. But it's the same with the 1909, the AVP A1 and my own 988.

Solution here is of course an EDID override with any of the custom mods in the OP, but I will try now to just modify that descriptor in my 988 EDID and see if I can bitstream . Maybe that's the issue ... will come back in a moment with results...

Yea, that's the one I was thinking about. But I'm wondering now if you're right...maybe this is why DTS-HD now works but TrueHD doesn't. If so, a little EDID mod might work as you suggest. I'll be interested in seeing your results.
post #240 of 3908
Thread Starter 
Samuri, IT WORKS!!!

Just replaced one byte in my DENON 988 EDID to enable 192khz support for TrueHD and that DID IT!

Thanks a bunch to rasmusb and to you for pinpointing the EXACT problem.

So, ladies and gents, mystery solved: ATI is INNOCENT!, or too picky?, for taking too literally (is that a bug?) a FAULTY AVR EDID value.

Now, what about other failing AVRs? Took a look at the failing ONKYO TX-SR875 EDID, and sure enough TrueHD/192Khz is marked as not supported there.

Can't find a couple of SONY AVR EDIDs that I had but this is the issue. OTH Checked one Yamaha and Pioneer AVRs EDID and TrueHD/192khz is marked supported in both.
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