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SVS Sealed Subs... - Page 5

post #121 of 817
I guess there is a mistake in SB13-Plus. It aint going to be at Ultra price range. My take is that it would be about PB12-Plus price range coz it makes no sense to have a Plus at Ultra price range.

The SB12-NSD and SB13-Plus might be launched in late Spring 2010 since it was mentioned in its website.
post #122 of 817
I was interested in waiting it out to see the specs and pricing on one of these smaller subs. Well I said F this and just orded an HSU last week. I dont think its right to say your coming out with new subs knowing that it will drive people crazy like this. I think they should have just not said anything if they were going to take this long. Good luck on your wait... By the time these come out, are shipped out and start being reviewed... Ahh why bother, my point was stated. They could at least post pictures and pricing on these so people know if it's even worth the wait.
post #123 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxht View Post

I guess there is a mistake in SB13-Plus. It aint going to be at Ultra price range. My take is that it would be about PB12-Plus price range coz it makes no sense to have a Plus at Ultra price range.

The SB12-NSD and SB13-Plus might be launched in late Spring 2010 since it was mentioned in its website.

Not sure why you'd think that? The SB13 will have either the same driver, or a better driver (given what, 3 years has passed since development of the PB13 driver?), and have a better/more powerful amp with DSP onboard.

The cost of wood is, well, nothing. So yes, I'm "guessing" the SB13 will be as much as the PB13, give or take $100.

In any event, I agree that sending out a release that promises "by week's end" that "all the information" about release dates and pricing will be out seems odd given almost 25 days have passed.

Makes you wonder what is going on, as I can't imagine this is just an oversight (i.e., "oooops, hey, did anyone send that news release out? .... No ... oh cr*p!" sort of thing!).
post #124 of 817
I wouldn't ever suggest waiting for vaporware when there are already so many great subs out there to choose from. There is just too much great bass that one would be missing out on while waiting.

As far as what will be SVS's performance leader, according to Ed Mullen the PB13 Ultra will continue to be the performance leader due to the fact that it is much larger than any of the sealed subs coming out and that it is ported. Other than extreme extension, the PB13 will be likely to outperform even the more expensive SB16.
post #125 of 817
Are any of these new Sub's wireless? There was talk initially that they were suppose to be, but that may have been a lot of hot air. They sure are making the ULS-15 look like an awesome bang for the buck.
post #126 of 817
Thread Starter 
Bravo,

According to the released specs these new subs do not include any wireless capabilities...you are correct as I do remember reading in the earlier development that it was talked about -- but as direct wiring is always most desirable I suppose the decision was made to not add cost with that feature.

And as others have said there are so many great options out there waiting seems a bit silly and I know I won't be waiting any longer given the high prices these SVS models are going to have and the released specs -- the ULS-15 is a MUCH bigger bang for your buck in terms of performance....
post #127 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post


In any event, I agree that sending out a release that promises "by week's end" that "all the information" about release dates and pricing will be out seems odd given almost 25 days have passed.

Makes you wonder what is going on, as I can't imagine this is just an oversight (i.e., "oooops, hey, did anyone send that news release out? .... No ... oh cr*p!" sort of thing!).

Yes, SVS in infamous for doing this sort of thing.

They announce a new product then it takes up to a year to bring it to market.

Great products, but questionable information management.
post #128 of 817
Or in the case of the LTS speakers Years.....
post #129 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Or in the case of the LTS speakers Years.....

LOL, hey, they did say they "slipped a bit" in their schedule for these! I still can't wait to see these speakers though. As far as the subs are concerned, all the back and forth about price and value aside, they always seem to bring a competitively priced winner to market. I'm sure these subs will be no different. By the time I'm ready to step up to my PB13, I may be considering the SB16 due to it's smaller form factor.....price dependent of course.
post #130 of 817
All,

Im new to this forum and the subwoofer speaker world. If this posting is not appropriate for this thread please forgive me and direct me to the correct location.

Up until a few weeks ago I really did not have much knowledge of subwoofers and speakers. I then came across a large SVS subwoofer at a friends house, not sure the exact model? It sounded and felt amazing!!!! I want one!!

Ive done some research but figured what better than actual consumers.

What is the concensus on SVS? What do they do well? What can they improve on? AM I OK purchasing an SVS subwoofer?

Thanks for any input! Im a rookie!!
post #131 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamageMcRamage View Post

LOL, hey, they did say they "slipped a bit" in their schedule for these! I still can't wait to see these speakers though. As far as the subs are concerned, all the back and forth about price and value aside, they always seem to bring a competitively priced winner to market. I'm sure these subs will be no different. By the time I'm ready to step up to my PB13, I may be considering the SB16 due to it's smaller form factor.....price dependent of course.

Yeah - I'll bet they are still working on them LTS's - they were stating them to be a price no object type of speaker - I hope they still have plans on coming out with them.

You guys are lucky having all these small and medium sized rooms....
I really like sealed subs but it sure take alot of oomph for a setup like mine.
I would love to check out SVS's sealed designs, but I think I'd need a dozen of them
post #132 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by danyem04 View Post

All,

Im new to this forum and the subwoofer speaker world. If this posting is not appropriate for this thread please forgive me and direct me to the correct location.

Up until a few weeks ago I really did not have much knowledge of subwoofers and speakers. I then came across a large SVS subwoofer at a friends house, not sure the exact model? It sounded and felt amazing!!!! I want one!!

Ive done some research but figured what better than actual consumers.

What is the concensus on SVS? What do they do well? What can they improve on? AM I OK purchasing an SVS subwoofer?

Thanks for any input! Im a rookie!!


There are a handful of Internet Direct subwoofer companies that offer a great value for your money, much more so than what you can get at Best Buy or Fry's.

SVS is one of them. Others to check out are HSU, Epik, and Elemental Designs. There are more but these are the main 4. Some are more Home Theater oriented (SPL, deep extension), while some a bit better suited to music reproduction (sound quality, tightness of the bass) while still hitting the SPL and extension.

These ID brands are also known for their great customer service, because they get sales based on word of mouth, not by default by being at retail stores. You're safe getting a sub from any of them. Same goes for all of the fantastic online speaker companies (maybe not all, but there are some great brands that sell direct only).

I suggest you figure out how much you want to spend, what your goals are, and start researching these brands.
post #133 of 817
I just noticed this bit in the left information pane over at SVS:

SVS Headline News!
New SB sub lineup
coming mid- 2010!

I'm starting to think they are talking about an announcement weeks's end...mid 2010
post #134 of 817
Looks like that release has changed to say "mid-May" now vs. by week's end. Interesting, wonder if they're double thinking the prices or had difficulties securing inventory of certain parts?
post #135 of 817
Come on guys.... good things come to those that wait....

SVS doesn't screw around when it comes to very well engineered products - lining up all those dots doesn't always come easy.... Rome wasn't built in a day...

I would love to see them put together a Sealed Dual Opposed 13" or 16"
post #136 of 817
Agreed, I think the SB16 in particular is going to be a great product and compete well with the Sub 15 and Sub 25's. Also interesting that they imply the SB13 will compete quite well with a $4k sub from "some other brand. We're pretty sure that expensive sub has met its match".

Just curious as to why they went from imminent ("by week's end") to "by mid May". Usually that means something unexpected came up!!

As for duals, they are somewhat limited to the amp platform (which I think is still provided by Indigo/Bash amps?). Unless they can do what Paradigm has seemingly done with their Sub 15 which is to put two amps in the same enclosure (quite cool actually). But a dual 13/16 would be considerably expensive given the pricing of a single assuming pricing hasn't changed.
post #137 of 817
they seriously have their work cut out for them so far as actually turning a profit on sealed subs, just so many options out there right now

what's the niche demographic left that they could possibly be looking at?

I wouldn't be surprised if they put a hold on these for a while
post #138 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfromcanada View Post

they seriously have their work cut out for them so far as actually turning a profit on sealed subs, just so many options out there right now

what's the niche demographic left that they could possibly be looking at?

I wouldn't be surprised if they put a hold on these for a while

Good point. They already have a killer line up, from budget to expensive. They can not be beat in any price point for performance and quality. (aside from DIY on the performance side of the equation.)

They are probably trying to cover all the bases. They have shown us new artesian in wall speakers, they already have a full line of speakers mains to subs, I read somewhere they are tinkering with an amp or two.
They could end up over extending themselves, or they could be like a Japanese car company I know and become a thorn in the sides of all the slackers out there.... Offering good price points, great reliability, great performance, and great service to boot.
post #139 of 817
I have run my PB13-ULTRA in sealed mode before, and I see the partial allure of the sealed sub. You lose alot of output, but gain much in the way of acuracy. So can you run a sealed sub along with a ported sub. I have asked this before, but maybe in the wrong thread. This would be the best of both worlds.
post #140 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khakimon View Post

I have run my PB13-ULTRA in sealed mode before, and I see the partial allure of the sealed sub. You lose alot of output, but gain much in the way of acuracy.

On what point of reference to you base your assumption that the PB13 is more accurate in sealed mode? Accuracy would imply a flat frequency response and low distortion. Independent tests as well as data supplied by SVS show that the PB13 is almost ruler-flat and exhibits very low distortion in 20 hz ported mode and especially in 15 hz ported mode when tested in ground-plane conditions. The results show much flatter responses and much lower distortion compared with the sealed mode under the same ground-plane test conditions. Which would test flatter in-room would be very much dependent on the conditions of the room. Inherently, without depending on room boundaries, the PB13 is considerably more accurate in 15 or 20hz modes according to the tests. This too is supported by my own tests in a very large room that is wide-open to the rest of my house.
post #141 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

On what point of reference to you base your assumption that the PB13 is more accurate in sealed mode? Accuracy would imply a flat frequency response and low distortion. Independent tests as well as data supplied by SVS show that the PB13 is almost ruler-flat and exhibits very low distortion in 20 hz ported mode and especially in 15 hz ported mode when tested in ground-plane conditions. The results show much flatter responses and much lower distortion compared with the sealed mode under the same ground-plane test conditions. Which would test flatter in-room would be very much dependent on the conditions of the room. Inherently, without depending on room boundaries, the PB13 is considerably more accurate in 15 or 20hz modes according to the tests. This too is supported by my own tests in a very large room that is wide-open to the rest of my house.


Accuracy was the right wor d. I forget at times just how re ady you guys are to pounce. I should have said tighter, but sealed boxes ARE more accurate.
Sorry for the ass umption. You are right the 15 hz mode is very nice. This sub is very accurate overall.
But as you were contradicting your self, I do agree that it does entirely depend on the room in which the sub is placed. I have read that sealed boxes provide a more accurate sound. I have seen this everywhere.
Beleive it or not I and others have heard this too.
On the other foot, output is dimminished and they can not achieve(easily) the lower frequencies of their ported bretheren with out much more power to the same size driver.
I do not know about you, but I listen to mine in my dedicated media/HT room, not in ma back yard.(ground plane?)
The sealed mode shows the flattest over all line on the graph, with the 15hz and 20 hz rolling off fast just past their name sake hz.
Here is the graph for your inspection. As you inspect the graph notice not one of those lines is ruler flat....


I appreciate your enthusiasm in calling me out. Still you did not answer my question. nor did you add anything that was in the spirit of my post.

So in your opinion, what do you, mojomike, think about running dual ULTRAs. One in Sealed mode and the other in ported mode say 15hz or 20hz? Will they play nice together? Kinda like me and you?
post #142 of 817
Another thought. What if they make a nice big enclosure, bring back thier 900 watt bash amp (or even bigger) and throw that awsome looking 16" driver in a nice ported box? That would hit 10hz at 100db easily, on the ground plane thingy of course....

SVS, are you guys listening? This would kick some serious booty.
post #143 of 817
The point I was trying to make is that wheather or not a sealed sub is more accurate depends on the room. It is not inherently more accurate. The term "tighter" does not imply accuracy since not all real-world bass sounds "tight". Again, accuracy is measured by frequency response and distortion levels, not "tightness". Perhaps in your room, the sub is more accurate when sealed due to it's room gain characteristics. In my room, it is more accurate when ported. My room is not a dedicated HT and it behaves very much like outdoors when it comes to deep bass and the deep bass response pretty much comes out like the ground-plane tests. To make it accurate when sealed, it would require a good deal of eq which winds up raising the distortion even further as well as cutting into headroom.

As far as running two subs in different modes, it most likely is a bad idea. Different rolloff characteristics are accompanied by different phase shifts depending on how sharp the rolloff is. The ported sub with the sharper rolloff below it's tuning frequency would exhibit a greater phase shift. That means that in parts of the response spectrum, one sub would be somewhat working against the other, in effect reducing the overall output in the deep bass area where it is already rolling off.

While there would be no harm in trying the mixed arrangement, it is far more likely that you would get a better result by matching the tuning configurations on the two subs. It would be easy enough to test by the guys out there running the multiple 13Ultras.

If the sub in sealed configuration sounds best to you, a pair of them in a closed, dedicated room should give you all the output you need without having to run mixed modes.
post #144 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

The point I was trying to make is that wheather or not a sealed sub is more accurate depends on the room. It is not inherently more accurate. The term "tighter" does not imply accuracy since not all real-world bass sounds "tight". Again, accuracy is measured by frequency response and distortion levels, not "tightness". Perhaps in your room, the sub is more accurate when sealed due to it's room gain characteristics. In my room, it is more accurate when ported. My room is not a dedicated HT and it behaves very much like outdoors when it comes to deep bass and the deep bass response pretty much comes out like the ground-plane tests. To make it accurate when sealed, it would require a good deal of eq which winds up raising the distortion even further as well as cutting into headroom.

As far as running two subs in different modes, it most likely is a bad idea. Different rolloff characteristics are accompanied by different phase shifts depending on how sharp the rolloff is. The ported sub with the sharper rolloff below it's tuning frequency would exhibit a greater phase shift. That means that in parts of the response spectrum, one sub would be somewhat working against the other, in effect reducing the overall output in the deep bass area where it is already rolling off.

While there would be no harm in trying the mixed arrangement, it is far more likely that you would get a better result by matching the tuning configurations on the two subs. It would be easy enough to test by the guys out there running the multiple 13Ultras.

If the sub in sealed configuration sounds best to you, a pair of them in a closed, dedicated room should give you all the output you need without having to run mixed modes.


So my first post in relation to accuracy was, just that accurate. Tightness is an inherent benefit of the sealed configuration?? Or is tightness a sigh of accuracy? I thought they were two of the same, as I have read all over the place.
I think you are correct about the diff modes playing nice together. I am going to e-mail SVS about this and see what they say. Most likely they will say it is not a good idea.
Thanks for the input.
post #145 of 817
A ported 16" would be a killer!
post #146 of 817
The tightness is quite literal since the sealed sub is loaded with an air spring making the woofer move "tighter". That still doesn't necessarily imply accuracy. Tighter sometimes comes out sounding "leaner" due to the typical rolloff nature of a sealed sub that is not eq'd down deep. Ported subs sometimes sounds "slower" or "thicker" if they are in a place where the room gain characteristics cause the bottom end to be too prominent. A smaller sealed room might cause this effect.
post #147 of 817
Since SVS has mentioned that "By year's end we'll provide a quartet of subs from $400 to $2,600...not one of which will give mercy to any competitor even remotely close in size or price."

What are they going to have at $400? An SB-10 NSD?

I don't see them keeping the SB-12 Plus and lowering the price to $400, and adding the new SB-13 Plus. That wouldn't seem to make sense.

I also see them wringing out every scintilla of performance from the Ultra 16 (in particular). So, if it takes them another 3 months, that is fine with me.

After all, the SB-16 Ultra is going to be compared to the Seaton Submersive. SVS would need a super high excursion 16 inch driver and a high power amp with DSP to try to compete with the Submersive.
post #148 of 817
I thought that the new SB series is going to use DSP amp as oppose to BASH. SB10-NSD would be good as a starter.

SB16-Ultra would be a killer by the time it is being launched. I am hoping that it will outperform the Sub25 considerably.
post #149 of 817
Can you imagine them taking the price/performance lead across the board... Nice...
post #150 of 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khakimon View Post

Can you imagine them taking the price/performance lead across the board... Nice...

would your stock go up ?

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