Official KDL..EX500/501 Thread - Page 65

I'm very uncertain about performing a calibration with ACE on any setting. Because it is automatic and adjusts settings depending on the proportion of dark and light objects, then a calibration with it set to Low will only be accurate for that particular calibration image being used and will not be representative of normal viewing.

The principle is similar to the fantastic dynamic contrast figures quoted by manufacturers, where a TV turns itself off when a completely black screen is on display for a period of time and hence returns an almost absolute zero for emission for black: those figures are not achievable in real world usage.

That's not to say ACE is not useful, but I don't think a true calibration can be performed on moving goal posts.

Well, no offense, your incorrect and everything you just stated is a guess or an assumption if you will. This is exactly why many pro reviews are incorrect.

While I would say that many times at least in the past televisions special features cause in accuracy and image distortion they should always be checked to see if they do indeed enhance the image.

Sometimes, and I might add more and more as televisions are engineered with very sophisticated processing these special features are not only beneficial but also needed to be activated. In this case Ace MUST be set to low in order to get the most accurate image. Not only does it create a more accurate image overall It also does indeed increase black level. Setting this to off at least for the 60ex500 creates a less accurate image.

If you had a meter and calibrated with a meter then you would know this. Since you havent and dont all you have done is mislead people with inaccurate statements.

SerialMike--would most of everything in this thread apply to an 46" EX500 also or are most of the setting/suggestions just for 60"?
Thanks

I've tested Serialmike's WB settings. At first I thought they great, but discovered something's wrong with dark scenes. Setting Bbias to +7 caused black color and all dark shadow deteails look very blueish tinted. In fact, for a non sharp EX500s it's best to decrease B bias by 1 or 2.

Applying setting from serialmike's calibration to a non-Sharp EX500s will ruin the PQ. I've tryied this and the result was very very bad. So let's not forget his setting is specifically for Sharp panel.


So far I've come to the following settings (40EX500 sony-samsung panel)

Backlight 4
Picture MAX
Brightness 48
Color 55
color temperature NEUTRAL
Sharpness 8
Noise reduction MIN
Motionflow 100hz STANDARD
Auto Film mode 1
contrast enhancer MIN
Gamma -1

WB
everything on default factory settings except B biass to -1

Still looking for a decent WB calibration

I picked up my 55EX500 yesterday and my initial impression is it is a very good TV. I have used most of Serialmikes settings but left the WB alone. I watched the Bluray disk of Cars last night and it looked amazing. SD sources look like ***p. But I know the Tv is showing me whats really there. I tried a few PS3 games and couldnt detect any lag. Motion seems good, there are times when I think I see some blur but I am not sure if I am really seeing it or if its my inexperience with a big Flat panel. Black levels are good but not CRT level, for sure. (I have a Sony HD CRT) It may be that the 60EX500 has better blacks as it has the Sharp panel. Not having seen it I cant say. As with most Lcds, off axis viewing is poor. Uniformity is good and no flashlighting can be seen. Sound is merely adequate but a home theater setup would be the way to go. Overall I am very pleased with it.

Picture Mode- Custom
Backlight-Min
Picture- Max
Brightness- 45
Color- 50
Hue- 0
Color Temp- Warm2
Sharpness- 1
Noise Reduction- Off
MPG Noise Red- Off
MotionFlow- Standard
Cinemotion- Off
Ambient Sensor- Off

Advanced Settings
Adv Contrast Enhancer- Low
Black Corrector- Off
Gamma- +1
Clear White- Off
Live Color- Off

serialmikes settings worked great on my 46ex501. The only differences I made was setting warm1 instead of warm 2 and turned the white enhancer to low setting. Now I feel like im watching a whole new (better) tv then when it was all stock settings...muy bien

thanks

Don't you think serialmikes WB Bbias set to +7 is breaking blacks into blue?

You cannot judge anything from a photo of a TV screen. Way too many variables along the chain to screw up the image. Was the camera's WB properly set? Is your monitor calibrated? Are the images tagged with an ICC profile and can your browser even read that? I can go on. Pictures are mostly useless. I believe the intent was simply to show brightness, although I have to say when one takes an image of just the screen, it's hard to make any sort of judgment..

I've been reading through this thread as I'm looking to get a 55 or 60 - probably a 55 EX500, and am baffled at how people just copy someone else's calibration settings thinking it has some relevance to their own set. SerialMike's settings are good for his set, calibrated under his lighting/viewing conditions. That's all. Even if you had a 60 EX500, you would need different settings. People are free to try, but nothing beats your own calibration.

Interesting, I will have to see once I get my gear out to calibrate the set I have yet to buy Last time I looked at an XBR9 last year, ACE was a bad gimmick - like most options that should be OFF in the menu. At least if you want a true ISF-type calibration. Most in fact I find don't. It is something your eye needs to get used to.

Correct - all sources are 8bit. However, if you use a video processor, you can benefit from 10bit processing in upsampling SD material, etc., and a 10bit panel can in theory help with dithering. But in general, I agree. TrueColor, Yxx, etc., are gimmicks.

Hi.

I bought my 46EX501 last week and have been messing around with the settings ever since. This thread has been a very interesting read and I'm curently trying out serialmike's latest settings.
I have understood that the 60" version is using a different kind of panel and I assume this is why his settings aren't quite as amazing on my 46"?
Does anyone have the opportunity to do a "proper" calibration on the 46" model?

So, can you tell how to at least try calibrate WB without colorimeter?

While ACE may not be perfect, it's got one crucial benefit, preventing eye strain at night. It really helps to keep overal screen brightness and contrast at levels that don't hurt the eyes.

I guess not :/ 65 pages and still no sign of a decent professional non-sharp EX500 calibration

You can't. But if you care about PQ, it's worth at the very least investing in a colorimeter. Or just hire an ISF pro who will have a color analyzer and better gear for the best calibration - wb, gamma, etc. It's OK to use someone's settings, I'm just saying don't be surprised if it's not accurate at all. And some seem just that - surprised.

I would have to concur. I have the 46" and they don't translate over, but that might make sense given the different panels. Mine using DVE HD Basics disc:

Scene: General
Picture Mode: custom
Backlight: 2
Picture: 93 (Any higher and the whites start to clip on the test pattern)
Brightness: 51 (This is where the outer bar disappears into the video black signal on the brightness test pattern)
Color: 50
Hue: 0
Color Temp: neutral
Sharpness: 1
Noise Reduction: off
MPEG Noise Reduction: off
MotionFlow: standard
CineMotion: off
Ambient Sensor: off

Advanced Settings - all off, white balance defaults of 0.

I do agree with Bogdan though, everyone should attempt to calibrate their own set, even if just using a disc.

everyone just paypal me 5 bucks and ill hire an ISF pro and then share the settings he applies to my 46

Gonna need more than that. I dont think there are 80 people here with the 46.

Also Isf on this set or any sony isnt worth it. there are no controls in the service menu.

Finally , for the most part with a meter and the usre menu You can get almost everything on the set closer to standard than your eye can see.

On a more serious note. I have calibrated a warm1 to d65. I am testing it. I think I see what is catching you guys attention in warm1. It seems that warm one prvides more accuracy in color. specifically magenta. This may well be whats causing you guys to not like the skin tones in warm2.

Im testing it for a bit, and comparing the numbers and such. When I am satisfied that I have it right I'll post em up.

Good to hear.

Also, mike, at your current settings, it's not at it's blackest black, is it? If you were to change WB settings to make it more deep black, would it compromise any other colors? It's just that comparing a different set of white balance, the blacks seem to be more "blacker" than yours in terms of depth and darkness.

The white balance is set correctly to industry standard color. White balance may shift black level a little. The biggest control that changes black level on the set is backlight. If you are using 1 you are significantly higher black level than min.

With backlight at min depending on settings with ACE on you are between .008 and .010. With backlight at 1 if you were at .008 you are at .012 if you were at .010 you are around .015. Big jumps. Backlight 2 puts you between .015 and .020 ish. Unbearable to me.

ISF is not about controls in the service menu. It's about doing a correct calibration, a lot more correct than one can do with DVE or Spears&Munsil and a colorimeter. Unless you have a color analyzer and some other very expensive gear, you're in the ballpark, but that's about it. To me it's worth it on ANY set. It all depends on how picky one is, and I'm very picky. Ballpark is a lot better than guessing, copying settings, or not doing anything. But it's not nearly as precise. And yes, one can see the difference. It all depends on what one's eye is used to. IMHO, Spyders are not very accurate.

Sony 55EX500 manufactured May 2010 vs 52EX700 vs Panasonic plasma TH42PZ85U (not Neo PDP)
3 weeks ago I bought the EX700 and tried my best to appreciate the LED TV and to a degree I did. It’s a very fine set given the excellent uniformity, sharpness and SD cable picture quality, however as reported by Cnet, home theater magazine etc the bluish cast in darker scenes can’t be corrected. Talked to Sony tech manager and he said to return the set.
In my crazy mood I thought I would try a Samsung instead. Got the new UN55C5000 LED.
Go home, set it up, turn it on and I thought I need a bucket to vomit, the clouding and flash lighting was so bad I couldn’t believe they would sell this TV set to anybody, but a blind person. I’m and old guy and I’ve seen a lot of bad sets, but this one was “bad”.
I’m not saying Samsung makes lousy TV however the issue with clouding and flash lighting seems to be much more frequent on Samsung than Sony.
Thank you God, for people (geeks) like us, who bitch and complain and maybe just maybe pushing the manufactures to better quality TV’s right out of the box. Yes, I know you can hire a guy for $300 to tweak your TV, but my question is why do you have to? You don’t buy a new car, furniture, computer etc and then hire someone to make it right.
Anyway, back to the store and got the 55EX500 and what a difference absolutely no clouding or flash lighting. If I take my 42PZ85U Panasonic plasma as 100% uniformity then this TV would get 90% plus.
For the comparisons I use default Cinema mode:
SD cable quality: given you have to enlarge the picture from 42” to 55” about the same on all three TV’s, good but not HD.
SD DVD: using LG DVD player at 480p, letting the TV do the 1080p up conversion,
Panasonic 100%, Sony EX500 95% and EX700 95%. Panasonic seems to be the best but again it is a much smaller screen.
HD 1080p blue-ray using Sony S3600 BD picture mode standard, YCbCr 4:4:4, deep color 12 bit, 1080/24p: I use HD basic calibration disk, AVSforum test patterns, movies Pandorum, Pitch black, theRuins. Not exactly reference quality, but that’s my point, see how the TV handles darker movies in a pitch black room.
Panasonic: Movie like reproduction, but lacking the sharpness, boldness, pop of LCD TV meaning it’s a softer, natural looking picture.
Sony EX700: Here we have a dilemma where the picture is sharp, bold and pop but has a darker bluish tinge in darker parts of the movie. This is the only part why I returned the TV. No amount of tweaking could get it out.
Sony EX500: default cinema excellent. Sharp, vibrant no bluish tinge –none however if you set the back light to Min or ambient sensor on, you get the red push, that’s why I see some of the people adjusted the white balance in B-bias to +7 to compensate but then you have too much blue in the darker scenes. As I said the picture on cinema default is excellent just a little too glaring in a dark room.
At the end, IMO the EX500 is the best for value, out of the box picture quality and no bluish tinge. Is it perfect, hell no, none of the TV’s are I don’t care how much you’ll pay, but it is a good TV nevertheless.

OK, now one on you gurus can help me out. I’ve upgraded the firmware to 1.52, all OK but I can’t find any menu setting for time and date? What happened to it?

Well that all depends. If you understand the meter and what its doing and how to do the adjustments and you can get those adjustments to a point where they are better than the human eye can see. Then there is no reason to get an isf calibration.

Sony only has so many adjustments. There really would be no benefit to getting an isf cal over my metered cal with this set. Perhaps if you weren't confident that you knew what you were doing a 3-400 dollar calibration would help you out.


Also going back to the point about ace on or off. The reason you want to check features out now is this. On this set Ace increases the black level by between .05 and .07. It does this without crushing blacks. With ACE off the brightness level in the 10 ire is to low. With ACE on the level is better. This helps with shadow detail rather than hurts it.

In this case you are making the set less accurate by not using ace. In this case I believe the circuitry is designed to run with ace on. Does this apply to other sony sets? other sony ex500 other than the 60? I dont know. I can tell you every review of the 60ex500 by a site that gets done will be forfeit because they are going to turn it off forget ti and get a black level of .013-.015 or higher and hammer the set from there.

Again, it depends on how picky you are, and what your reference is - what you are used to. The adjustments Sony has (from playing with one in the store) are enough to allow for a calibration of either a very accurate gamma, WB, etc. or a very good one. I wish it had B, R, & G only screen modes so I could calibrate color/hue, but it doesn't. So that's a bad thing - some of the Samsungs have them, trickled down from their DLP projectors, one of which is my reference system. But good is relative as I was saying.

You can be as confident as you want, but w/o better tools, your measurements are not going to be very accurate. But maybe that's OK for many. In fact, it probably is. That was my point.

As far as ACE, as I said, I will definitely check it out when I get my set. I can't comment on it yet.

In my experience with ACE it can be OFF when backlight set lower than 2. If you have backlight any higher than that (I have mine at 5) ACE on LOW prevents hurting eyes when watching at night. I guess it somewhat automatically adjust backlight according to what's going on the screen. It's really helpful at night.

Looks like Sony has raised the price on the 55EX500 by $220. =(

This makes getting this particular TV a bit more of a hard choice now.

Sonystyle, Bestbuy pricing is the same its been other than sales. Dont seee you point.

Uhm, I see that the BestBuy price went up to $1709 from $1499?