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Official KDL..EX500/501 Thread - Page 206

post #6151 of 6190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Mike, thanks again for publishing your findings. Between this callibration and the one from about a year ago, I'm finding that when I double check using my Spears & Munsil callibration blu-ray, both the "Picture" and "Brightness" settings are way too high on my set. The Pluge windows actually start to show the checkerboard background which means that the brightness is way too high and black levels suffer accordingly. Also, the RGB Clipping window shows both the red and blue panel completely washed out with no "steps" visible. I have my TV in a controlled, darkened room

Just for the record, my Spears & Munsil augmented settings are as follows;

Picture - 84
Brightness - 50

Everything else is left as you have it though I keep going back and forth with the Sharpness setting as I do see artifacts on some scenes.

Randy

Interesting Randy. I use the Eyeone LT. My settings result in 35ftl so that is supposed to be proper. In a dark room movie theater light probably like 20-25ftl would be better. I would guess that your setting would result in about 27ftl roughly speaking smile.gif. As far as the black level that was adjusted by DVE and THX patterns which from a dead 0 degree angle required to see the proper detail. Also the AVS black clipping pattern also shows proper detail with my settings. Lower brightness on all three methods at 0 degree angle shows shadow detail loss. If you go off angle by about 3 degrees or more you can see the detail. at lower brightness. According to my meter with the settings I posted red is slightly over saturated and green and blue are just about on.

I do not own the disc you have. Though I trust a meter, any meter over a disc. In the end everyone has to settle on what makes them happy smile.gif
post #6152 of 6190
Yeah Mike, I guess maybe the difference I'm seeing is directly related to my dark room/home theater environment.

Do you think there might also be a possibility than one of our displays has shifted slightly over the years?
post #6153 of 6190
I don't see any shift in settings. Brightness acts the same as it always has so far. I mean if I go up to the set and really look hard I can barley see the right brightness level at 52 but thats not being realistic about seeing the detail.

I also have seen no change in the brightness for the contrast levels or change in the color saturations. And I have many thousands of hours on this set. Jun will be 3 years old at roughly 12-17 hrs a day on it. My set easily has 12000-15000 hrs on it.
post #6154 of 6190
Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

Interesting Randy. I use the Eyeone LT. My settings result in 35ftl so that is supposed to be proper. In a dark room movie theater light probably like 20-25ftl would be better. I would guess that your setting would result in about 27ftl roughly speaking smile.gif. As far as the black level that was adjusted by DVE and THX patterns which from a dead 0 degree angle required to see the proper detail. Also the AVS black clipping pattern also shows proper detail with my settings. Lower brightness on all three methods at 0 degree angle shows shadow detail loss. If you go off angle by about 3 degrees or more you can see the detail. at lower brightness. According to my meter with the settings I posted red is slightly over saturated and green and blue are just about on.

I do not own the disc you have. Though I trust a meter, any meter over a disc. In the end everyone has to settle on what makes them happy smile.gif

I would not trust the i1 LT (or D2) in the low light range for Black. I have owned one for about three years and have never had proper Blacks when set by the i1 LT sensor.. At about 40% up it seems good, but below 30% I trust my eyes more. I also think these sensors drift over time.

The older version of AVCHD had a nice pattern for R, G, B at low stimulation which I use for setting Bias. I also use the APL pattern which displays the grey steps around the edge so I can see how the various low levels shiftwhile setting the Bias.

Someday I may look into either calibration of my i1 or buying a more reliable sensor. But for now, I do low level by eye and upper levels by sensor.

You also stated in an ealier post that your whites seem to be color shifted. This may be because your contrast (Picture) is set too high and Red is not keeping up. Best place to check that is in the White saturation pattern. If you see color shift above a certain level, back off the Picture a few steps and watch the pattern. I usually set the Picture level with the sensor by watching the Grey point at 100%, it should be the same D65 as 80%. If it is different, then I lower the contrast until it is back to D65. You can do this at 90% instad of 100% if you insist on a brighter picture since you eye will probably not see the shift and there is not much 100% White TV content unless you are watching a movie about the North Pole.


Also, it is rare to find two display panels that require the same WB settings for proper calibration, even among the same brand and model built the same time. If this were the case, professional calibrators would be a thing of the past. So don't be surprised if your setting differ from someone else's.

Just my 2 cents.
post #6155 of 6190
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaibrok View Post

is it just on cable/ota tv? could be compression artifacts. I also get artifacts sometimes when motionflow is set to high.

No, I have noticed it on Blu-rays, but definitely not as much as cable
post #6156 of 6190
Hello-first post on this forum smile.gif

i'd like to ask,how should i connect my pc to the 40ex500 screen using nvidia gtx660 card.

I can choose YCbCr444 or RGB when i connect it by hdmi,but i heard that YCbCr444 doesnt work well anywhere outside game mode(blurred colours),and i have totally no idea how would the RGB mode work.
So basically,my questions are:
1.is there big image quality difference between game mode and cinema/custom?
2.should i output full,or limited range,and should i choose YCbCr444 or RGB
3.is there any way i can force nvidia card to do 4:2:2 output-but i think it wouldnt work that well because of double conversion (4:2:0 to rgb by madvr (jinc 3-taps) and then to 4:2:2 by video card)
4.the 24Hz mode will work no matter if i use 4:4:4 or rgb,right? this tv will be used to watch movies from htpc,almost exclusively 24hz content.
Edited by KONAKONA - 6/21/13 at 3:31am
post #6157 of 6190
I don't know which one is optimal, but here is the result of a query of the EDID data using a program called Monitor Asset Manager which I have used to build an inf file for my EX500 that may help. Personally, I think RGB 4:4:4 looks best, but I haven't done any formal testing.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Code:
Monitor
  Model name............... SONY TV
  Manufacturer............. Sony
  Plug and Play ID......... SNYEA01
  Serial number............ n/a
  Manufacture date......... 2010, ISO week 1
  Filter driver............ None
  -------------------------
  EDID revision............ 1.3
  Input signal type........ Digital
  Color bit depth.......... Undefined
  Display type............. RGB color
  Screen size.............. 1600 x 900 mm (72.3 in)
  Power management......... Not supported
  Extension blocs.......... 1 (CEA-EXT)
  -------------------------
  DDC/CI................... Not supported

Color characteristics
  Default color space...... Non-sRGB
  Display gamma............ 2.20
  Red chromaticity......... Rx 0.635 - Ry 0.336
  Green chromaticity....... Gx 0.285 - Gy 0.608
  Blue chromaticity........ Bx 0.146 - By 0.061
  White point (default).... Wx 0.280 - Wy 0.290
  Additional descriptors... None

Timing characteristics
  Horizontal scan range.... 15-70kHz
  Vertical scan range...... 58-62Hz
  Video bandwidth.......... 150MHz
  CVT standard............. Not supported
  GTF standard............. Not supported
  Additional descriptors... None
  Preferred timing......... Yes
  Native/preferred timing.. 1920x1080p at 60Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "1920x1080" 148.500 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync
  Detailed timing #1....... 1280x720p at 60Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "1280x720" 74.250 1280 1390 1430 1650 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync

Standard timings supported
     640 x  480p at  60Hz - IBM VGA
     800 x  600p at  60Hz - VESA
    1024 x  768p at  60Hz - VESA
    1280 x 1024p at  60Hz - VESA STD

EIA/CEA-861 Information
  Revision number.......... 3
  IT underscan............. Not supported
  Basic audio.............. Supported
  YCbCr 4:4:4.............. Supported
  YCbCr 4:2:2.............. Supported
  Native formats........... 0
  Detailed timing #1....... 1920x1080i at 60Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74.250 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1094 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync
  Detailed timing #2....... 720x480p at 60Hz (16:9)
    Modeline............... "720x480" 27.000 720 736 798 858 480 489 495 525 -hsync -vsync
  Detailed timing #3....... 720x480p at 60Hz (4:3)
    Modeline............... "720x480" 27.000 720 736 798 858 480 489 495 525 -hsync -vsync
  Detailed timing #4....... 1440x480i at 60Hz (4:3)
    Modeline............... "1440x480" 27.000 1440 1478 1602 1716 480 488 494 524 interlace -hsync -vsync

CE video identifiers (VICs) - timing/formats supported
    1920 x 1080p at  60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1280 x  720p at  60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
    1920 x 1080i at  60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
     720 x  480p at  60Hz - EDTV (16:9, 32:27)
     720 x  480p at  60Hz - EDTV (4:3, 8:9)
     720 x  480i at  60Hz - Doublescan (16:9, 32:27)
     720 x  480i at  60Hz - Doublescan (4:3, 8:9)
    1920 x 1080p at  24Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
     640 x  480p at  60Hz - Default (4:3, 1:1)
    NB: NTSC refresh rate = (Hz*1000)/1001

CE audio data (formats supported)
  LPCM    2-channel, 16/20/24 bit depths at 32/44/48 kHz
  AC-3    6-channel,  640k max. bit rate at 32/44/48 kHz

CE speaker allocation data
  Channel configuration.... 2.0
  Front left/right......... Yes
  Front LFE................ No
  Front center............. No
  Rear left/right.......... No
  Rear center.............. No
  Front left/right center.. No
  Rear left/right center... No
  Rear LFE................. No

CE vendor specific data (VSDB)
  IEEE registration number. 0x000C03
  CEC physical address..... 1.0.0.0
  Supports AI (ACP, ISRC).. Yes
  Supports 48bpp........... No
  Supports 36bpp........... No
  Supports 30bpp........... No
  Supports YCbCr 4:4:4..... No
  Supports dual-link DVI... No
  Maximum TMDS clock....... 150MHz
  Audio/video latency (p).. n/a
  Audio/video latency (i).. n/a
  HDMI video capabilities.. No
  Data payload............. 030C001000801E0F

Edited by mdavej - 6/21/13 at 4:50pm
post #6158 of 6190
Well actually the screen will be used almost exclusively in 24hz mode,and your edid has no refresh rate like that unfortunately - it isnt any nice experience to watch 24p movies on 60hz screen with 3:2 pulldown all day
post #6159 of 6190
24p is in the list. I watch it all the time (5:5, not 3:2), smooth as silk. Last time I checked, the EX500 was 120Hz, not 60. Your issue must be a wrong setting on the Nvidia or on the TV.
post #6160 of 6190
oh,great news that its 120hz,the 100hz motionflow option confused me. by the way,you are using game mode for 4:4:4 RGB,yes? i heard that on other modes things like red text on black background start bleeding,or having sort of blur effect-is this true?
post #6161 of 6190
Quote:
Originally Posted by KONAKONA View Post

oh,great news that its 120hz,the 100hz motionflow option confused me. by the way,you are using game mode for 4:4:4 RGB,yes? i heard that on other modes things like red text on black background start bleeding,or having sort of blur effect-is this true?
I do see the bleeding you describe, but I have no idea how to pick "game" mode. If you can tell me how to do it, I will test it.

EDIT: I found it. It's the SCENE button which I have never pressed. Game and Graphics mode do appear to reduce the bleed a tiny bit. I guess I'll keep it on Game and see how I like it.
Edited by mdavej - 6/23/13 at 10:15am
post #6162 of 6190
could you point what are differences in cinema mode and game/graphics mode? i dont have the tv set yet but it would be good to know.
post #6163 of 6190
As far as I can tell, the different modes (scenes) are simply groups of settings that you could otherwise make on your own. So I tried them all after you post, and most look like complete crap, so I've gone back to my original settings which I got from others earlier in this thread. So I'm not using any mode per se, just my own individual settings. I knew there must have been a reason I never tried those before.
post #6164 of 6190
Has anyone got sound settings?
post #6165 of 6190
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

As far as I can tell, the different modes (scenes) are simply groups of settings that you could otherwise make on your own. So I tried them all after you post, and most look like complete crap, so I've gone back to my original settings which I got from others earlier in this thread. So I'm not using any mode per se, just my own individual settings. I knew there must have been a reason I never tried those before.

as i got my own set now,i have to say i messed with the settings,and that graphics mode calibrated in same way as general(custom) gave almost same results,but without loss of chroma resolution-reds are perfectly sharp now.(the downside is you dont get to use the motionflow,but i dont use it anyway)
post #6166 of 6190
I bought the kdl60ex500 about 2.5 years ago. Yesterday a vertical blue line has appeared from top to bottom. Anyone else have similar problems?
post #6167 of 6190
Quote:
Originally Posted by ideallies View Post

I bought the kdl60ex500 about 2.5 years ago. Yesterday a vertical blue line has appeared from top to bottom. Anyone else have similar problems?

I have not had this issue with my 55" EX501 but I just recently sold this set which had a Jan.2010 build date on it. Hope you are able to get it fixed.
post #6168 of 6190
Hello again,does anyone have measured CIE Yxy values for 40EX500? i am trying to make 3dlut,but unfortunately all i found online was xy primaries for rgb,and i need Yxy (with luminance,rgb+white point)
I know it wont be exact,but its better than no calibration :P
Or,if anyone has a madvr-compatible 3dlut,i would be glad (for sd and hd material pretty please)

EDIT:nevermind,i managed to get luminance values from icc profile inspector,and made my 3dlut using yCMS

EDIT2:is there no way to force 5:5 or 4:4 pulldown (euro version) on 24fps content? Using cinemotion on auto 2 and motionflow on standard does it,but it adds additional frames,and there are some artifacts on random motion that i can reproduce easily. there seems to be some ghosting,or other kind of processing when using 24hz mode,its evident in high-contrast camera pan scenes (such as in anime),and the problem is greatly reduced by auto2+cinemotion(the ghost image is greatly reduced),but it adds frames (i dislike tampering with image).

Also,why is the custom mode only way of achieving industry standard? i have a feeling that you can get identical image on graphics mode,and it supports 4:4:4 rgb (so it increases quality if you use high-quality chroma upsampling algoritms such as madvr's Jinc 3taps+AR). You can adjust the little things by generating 3d lut and icc profiles.Unless,of course you arent using HTPC. (my tv isnt even connected to any cable tv and such,all i want is the best 24p quality. (almost all content i watch is progressive 24p,and dvd's get ivtc'd to 25 and slowed down to 24 by reclock)
Edited by KONAKONA - 7/20/13 at 9:54am
post #6169 of 6190
bump for knowledge :3
post #6170 of 6190
Can someone help me out with this Question? Thanks in advance
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1485922/sony-bravia-no-signal-on-antenna-setting
post #6171 of 6190
Bump. No activity in a month. Would like to know if serialmike updated his settings.
post #6172 of 6190
Not sure if anyone is still checking this thread....I have the 60EX500, since 2010. In the last week, it's starting to flash/light burst intermittently. First it would happen on start up and then stop after a few minutes. Now it jut keeps doing it throughout the entire viewing.I do have a Directv, blu ray and receiver hooked up, but even when i turn those all off and it's just the blue (no signal) screen it still flashes. Any thoughts?
post #6173 of 6190
Quote:
Originally Posted by ideallies View Post

I bought the kdl60ex500 about 2.5 years ago. Yesterday a vertical blue line has appeared from top to bottom. Anyone else have similar problems?

Yeah, my best friend has two of these TVs. One has a blue vertical line like you mentioned though it starts near the top (not AT the top). Sony refuses to repair it.

Apparently Sony has yet to learn the value of negative word of mouth, because my two best friends have swore off Sony forever (the other after an update bricked his PS3.)

Sony suffers from Apple envy. Hardware: Used to be great, Software: Meh, User Experience: Total garbage.
post #6174 of 6190
I've been trying this tv with backlight set to min, which I never thought I'd do. But it seems to give the cleanest picture and best detail.
post #6175 of 6190
I have seen some talk recently about the color space and the proper settings for this when outputting from the 360 and PS3 (and most likely it will come into question again with the PS4 and Xbox One).

I tried RGB Full on the PS3, but needed to increase the brightness from 53 to 62 for proper display of the test image I was using, but if I set the Xbox to RGB & Expanded (which I think is RGB Full), I get crushed blacks regardless.

What is everyone's experience and what are you setting your consoles to output as (for gaming only)?
post #6176 of 6190
@ideallies Just checked the friend's TV: The blue line IS all the way from top to bottom. Its vertical placement is about 1/4 of the way in -- that is, starting at the left edge, move about 1/4 of the total width to the right.

Plugged a Motorola STB DCX3400 into it and defaulted to 720p instead of 1080i. Had to manually press the "Format" on the front of the STB to switch it. (Note: The STB detected 1080i on another HDMI monitor without any problems.)

I'm not really impressed with this TV given Sony's arrogant attitude of shafting its customers on other TVs as well:
http://community.sony.com/t5/Television-Picture-Sound/KDL-52W4100-Vertical-line-down-screen/td-p/19445
post #6177 of 6190
MOrlando - you can't use expanded on Xbox 360, that's for computer monitors. You need to use standard, that's the range for TVs. And use ycbcr709 for the color space. That's what I've always preferred.
post #6178 of 6190
actually I read the game scene modes disables all post processing and the bravia engine itself, and also in return speeds up the display.
post #6179 of 6190
My Motorola / Comcast HD DVR cable box has a setting for sharpness. I just leave that on the factory sharpness setting, which is in the middle of the range. Is that what you would recommend, or do something different with that setting?

Thank you.
post #6180 of 6190
I would leave that setting alone to default and only adjust on the TV itself, use test images to properly set the contrast/sharpness. You'll get a much better, proper result than just eying it. After all, the sharpness isn't a magical fix all thing, it has it's pro's and con's as well.
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