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Rate these projectors

post #1 of 32
Thread Starter 
I am looking for a projector to use in a large non dedicated living room . the screen is a 110" Da-lite high power 2.8 model C. Where I live, I can not veiw any of these projectors in person, so I have just picked these models from what I have read here. The projector will be shelf mounted with approximately 16' -17' throw.


- Panasonic AE4000u
- Epson 8500ub
- Sanyo z3000
- Veiwsonic pro8100
- Epson 8100

- JVC RS10 (added 3/13/2010)

Is it worth the extra money to get an ultra high contrast projector for a non dedicated room? Would it be a very noticable difference with my screen as well?
post #2 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodK View Post

Is it worth the extra money to get an ultra high contrast projector for a non dedicated room? Would it be a very noticable difference with my screen as well?

My short answer is no, save the extra money as you won't see the benefit. My long answer is....

IMHO, to get the most benefit from a high contrast PJ with deep blacks, you need a light controlled environment. That's were a PJ with great contrast really, er, "shines". Personally, I think it's a waste to use quality contrast PJ in a non-dedicated room with too much ambient light. I'd opt for more of a light cannon in that environment to offset/outshine the ambient light. Of course, I'd spend the money to cover all the windows and doors and turn off all the lights. You don't know the power of the Dark Side.

I couple my 123" HiPower with an RS2 clone and it works very well. The blacks are very slightly elevated, but so are the whites, so CR remains and it provides for more punch. It also allows for using a ND filter initially to offset the elevated blacks and run in normal lamp power mode. As the bulb ages, the ND filter can be removed and later, the lamp can be set to high mode, provided the most life/hours out of the lamp. I think it's a great combo.

I'm not sure why you're using a HiPower with 2.8 gain in a room with ambient light. I would have looked for a screen at the other end of the spectrum to defeat reflective light and provide a darker picture. Then again, in a non-dedicated room, I'd use that PJ and screen budget on the largest plasma or RPTV that I could afford. I'd rather sacrifice sitting a little closer to get a MUCH better picture. To each their own, but my opinion is that any home theater that uses a front PJ should have (near) total light control. Otherwise, don't call it a theater. It's just a room with a big screen.
post #3 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

My short answer is no, save the extra money as you won't see the benefit. My long answer is....

IMHO, to get the most benefit from a high contrast PJ with deep blacks, you need a light controlled environment. That's were a PJ with great contrast really, er, "shines". Personally, I think it's a waste to use quality contrast PJ in a non-dedicated room with too much ambient light. I'd opt for more of a light cannon in that environment to offset/outshine the ambient light. Of course, I'd spend the money to cover all the windows and doors and turn off all the lights. You don't know the power of the Dark Side.

I couple my 123" HiPower with an RS2 clone and it works very well. The blacks are very slightly elevated, but so are the whites, so CR remains and it provides for more punch. It also allows for using a ND filter initially to offset the elevated blacks and run in normal lamp power mode. As the bulb ages, the ND filter can be removed and later, the lamp can be set to high mode, provided the most life/hours out of the lamp. I think it's a great combo.

I'm not sure why you're using a HiPower with 2.8 gain in a room with ambient light. I would have looked for a screen at the other end of the spectrum to defeat reflective light and provide a darker picture. Then again, in a non-dedicated room, I'd use that PJ and screen budget on the largest plasma or RPTV that I could afford. I'd rather sacrifice sitting a little closer to get a MUCH better picture. To each their own, but my opinion is that any home theater that uses a front PJ should have (near) total light control. Otherwise, don't call it a theater. It's just a room with a big screen.

I'm not sure why you said that.........depends where it's coming from and if you are in the sweet spot, and if you like the High Power's non textured image over the alternatives.
post #4 of 32
A high power screen is very good at rejecting ambient light not originating in the viewing cone. Because of the retroreflective nature, light is reflected back to the source. If the source of the light is off axis and outside of the viewing cone, the high power screen does a very good job of rejecting it. Its high gain also goes a fair way towards maintaining contrast in an environment with ambient light.

Also, even if the room is reflective, you would still get the benefit of a high on/off CR projector assuming there was no ambient light.
post #5 of 32
True, true, it does a good job with Ambient light. I do own/use a HiPower and like it. However, the HP does have some weaknesses. I prefer the dark side, the darker the better and therefore would opt for a plasma or control the ambient light as much as possible in the room. Since the OP already has an HP, it's a moot point. And since he makes a point of twice mentioning it's a non-dedicated room, I have to assume the living room will have plenty of ambient light, perhaps even at night. If so, his best bet is a light cannon LCD and not a high CR projector like the JVCs. The extra money would be wasted and the lumens aren't there either. Of course, if he can block out external light during the day and/or turn off all lights and watch movies at night, then a JVC or like PJ might still make sense.
post #6 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

A high power screen is very good at rejecting ambient light not originating in the viewing cone. Because of the retroreflective nature, light is reflected back to the source. If the source of the light is off axis and outside of the viewing cone, the high power screen does a very good job of rejecting it. Its high gain also goes a fair way towards maintaining contrast in an environment with ambient light.

Also, even if the room is reflective, you would still get the benefit of a high on/off CR projector assuming there was no ambient light.

High power also prevents ceiling mounts, and is optimized for the projector lens at the same level as your eyes. Outside of 15 degrees from the central axis the gain falls sharply to one - that's only a 6' wide window at 12' from the screen. Similarly, 3' above your head, or 3' below it, the gain is rapidly going to one.

With a self mounted, 110" high power screen, any of those projectors will be fine. Since the room isn't dark, there is no use paying for extra black levels you will never see. Price is your only real criteria, so get the best price you can find.
post #7 of 32
I think we're making assumptions about the level of ambient light in the room. I had a nondedicated room for a while that I was still able to control ambient light in so better black levels may not be unachievable for the OP.
post #8 of 32
Thread Starter 
Here is a pic of the room. there are 3 large windows on the left side and it is a very open concept. the curtains control light pretty good. The screen is purchased so we don't need to coment on that. What about the projectors listed? The projector would mostly be used for evening / nighttime viewing.

That is a 50" plasma for size reference. the 110" screen will go from just above the opening of the built in to just above the center channel speaker. the furniture is set up differently now too.
LL
post #9 of 32
I would think they are all pretty close.
I would find out which is the brightest and get that one for your room situation.
A buddy of mine got an Epson even slightly less than the models you are looking at and I thought it was great!!!

Scott
post #10 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodK View Post

Here is a pic of the room. there are 3 large windows on the left side and it is a very open concept. the curtains control light pretty good. The screen is purchased so we don't need to coment on that. What about the projectors listed? The projector would mostly be used for evening / nighttime viewing.

That is a 50" plasma for size reference. the 110" screen will go from just above the opening of the built in to just above the center channel speaker. the furniture is set up differently now too.

Thanks for the additional information as it's very helpful. Based on the fact that you'll be using the PJ during evening/nighttime viewing along with curtains that control the light pretty well, I'd say that it you should consider spending more for an ultra high contrast project. The more you can control the ambient light and mount the projector to get the full benefit of the HP, the better it will be no matter what PJ you purchase. You'll readily find many on AVS that truly appreciate the benefits of ultra high contrast PJ and deem it worth the extra money.

You have a 50" plasma already, but it's not clear if your moving it or if your HP is not a fixed frame and will roll down over it for night viewing. If it's the later and you'll be keeping/using the plasma for daytime viewing, then it makes even more sense to go for the ultra high CR PJ like a JVC.
post #11 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodK View Post

I am looking for a projector to use in a large non dedicated living room . the screen is a 110" Da-lite high power 2.8 model C. Where I live, I can not veiw any of these projectors in person, so I have just picked these models from what I have read here. The projector will be shelf mounted with approximately 16' -17' throw.


- Panasonic AE4000u
- Epson 8500ub
- Sanyo z3000
- Veiwsonic pro8100
- Epson 8100



Is it worth the extra money to get an ultra high contrast projector for a non dedicated room? Would it be a very noticable difference with my screen as well?

With that long of a throw the Pro8100 is the best overall choice if you want to use the best PQ modes. The best modes of the Epsons and Panny are not going to be bright enough with that long of a throw. The HP screen will help with that but I still think the Pro8100 is the best choice. Only problem will be finding one if you don't buy very soon.
post #12 of 32
I just looked at the picture of your room. It appears there is a wall to the left of the bar. If you are planning on shelf mounting it there, meaning not centered with the screen, then the Pro8100 won't work. It has very little horizontal lens shift compared to the Epsons and Panny.
post #13 of 32
Thread Starter 
I didn't think that 16' was that far of a throw for a 110" screen. That is not a bar in the picture, that is part of my kitchen. The sofa is now about 14' from where the screen will be (and straight across) and I am going to put a high table or stand behind the sofa.

the screen is retractable so the plasma is in use for daytime.
post #14 of 32
Nice room!
post #15 of 32
Thread Starter 
It will be once I get a projector in there.

I have been without one for over 2 years and I am in withdrawl .
post #16 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by orion456 View Post

High power also prevents ceiling mounts, and is optimized for the projector lens at the same level as your eyes. Outside of 15 degrees from the central axis the gain falls sharply to one - that's only a 6' wide window at 12' from the screen. Similarly, 3' above your head, or 3' below it, the gain is rapidly going to one.

With a self mounted, 110" high power screen, any of those projectors will be fine. Since the room isn't dark, there is no use paying for extra black levels you will never see. Price is your only real criteria, so get the best price you can find.

You do know many people in the highpower thread including myself have ceiling mounts, you need a large drop mount and needs to be put near the back of the room so its out of the way, but it works great.

The projector is dropped about 3 and half feet from my ceiling, its at about 5'10 inches. 2 feet above my eye level seating and the gain is still huge, i thought my glass beaded was bright but the 2.8 highpower is still much brighter. I actually find if you have a decent projector with decent brightness lowering it even more i found it to bright and people unless they have a very dim projector or huge screen probably wont want to sit to close to eye level, brightness washout and noise became to apparent for me, i feel its perfect 2 feet above my head still a huge brightness boost i can only compare to my plasma.

According to the high power calculator i am also getting 2.2 gain based on my setup.

Although your right i wouldnt go further then 2 and half feet between seating and eye level and the projector or you will loose most gain, i found 2 feet it dropped a bit of brightness but not much, many people use ceiling mounts with it.
post #17 of 32
Since you'll be be putting the PJ on a stand behind the seating, there's a good chance that the PJ will be very close to centered and you'll get the most gain from the HP. 16' is roughly 2x distance and will have to be taken into consideration in lens throw and ft.L on the screen. Getting the most gain out of the HP will help.

Since you're using the plasma for daytime and ambient light situations, you really should consider spending the extra for a high contrast PJ that fits your budget and needs (especially throw distance). As you say, you'll be using the PJ for evening/night viewing and will cover the windows too, so ambient light shouldn't be much of an issue when using the PJ. Since you're used to plasma, I'd venture to say that you're going to want the PJ to provide great blacks/CR too, otherwise you'll probably be disappointed with the picture.

I also suggest calling a sales person at AVS before you buy. They know their business, are very helpful, and have some of the best prices around. Good luck...
post #18 of 32
Thread Starter 
How about the JVC RS10? with the clearout pricing, it is now in my budget (never thought possibe). Does it blow all these other projectors out of the water even in my conditions?
post #19 of 32
"How about the JVC RS10?"

Buy it.

Kevin
post #20 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodK View Post

How about the JVC RS10? with the clearout pricing, it is now in my budget (never thought possibe). Does it blow all these other projectors out of the water even in my conditions?

How much can you pick it up for? Warranty? Bulb hours? If you can get a good deal on one I'd go for it over the other projectors. Come to think of it, I did go for it over these other projectors. I was in the same situation as you a few months back. The RS10 puts out a pretty filmlike image IMO.

Chris
post #21 of 32
Thread Starter 
$2200 us plus shipping , us warranty, brand new.
post #22 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodK View Post

$2200 us plus shipping , us warranty, brand new.

Where are you finding this deal? Internet or local dealer? Almost sounds too good to be true. If this is the case, though, this is an absolute steal.

Chris
post #23 of 32
Thread Starter 
obviously not local if you look at my location.
post #24 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodK View Post

obviously not local if you look at my location.

Obviously Just be careful. Even some of the online vendors that I would consider to be less than reputable are still selling the RS10 new for around $3800. I don't know how they still have brand new PJ's, seems a bit odd. I would consider 2200 a great price for a used RS10 in good condition. Just make sure you know what you're getting, that's all.

Chris
post #25 of 32
Thread Starter 
lets just say it is a well known reputable dealer
post #26 of 32
Quote:


- Panasonic AE4000u
- Epson 8500ub
- Sanyo z3000
- Veiwsonic pro8100
- Epson 8100

I would rate the Panny #1 and would say its probably better than the RS10 although I have never used a RS10 although I have the RS20. There have been some issues with the Epson 8500 and would make it #2 of the four assuming it didnt have those issues. The Epson 8100 is a level below the 8500 and have no idea about the Viewsonic
post #27 of 32
Thread Starter 
Thanks Daniel, but Jason Turk would disagree with you. He puts the JVC over and above them all.
post #28 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodK View Post

How about the JVC RS10? with the clearout pricing, it is now in my budget (never thought possibe). Does it blow all these other projectors out of the water even in my conditions?

As I recall, the RS10 has over saturated colors, making green look that rather fluorescent hue. Apparently bugs some people to distraction.

How about the Benq W6000 - it has high light output, has a superior ANSI contrast, has an iris for low blacks, is DLP and is very sharp, 16' throw gives 110" in the middle of its range, it can be had for $2k with in canada warranty.
post #29 of 32
Thread Starter 
whispers.....................I.....see..............RAINBOWS
post #30 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodK View Post

whispers.....................I.....see..............RAINBOWS


Oh MY

one of

them........

perhaps you would do better in Kansas....
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