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Why are there no 1080p 3D DLP projectors out?

post #1 of 27
2/24/10 at 8:16am
Thread Starter 
Is there a reason that they can only make 720p 3D DLP projectors? I have seen plenty of 720P 3D DLPs but not one 1080p. Is there some sort of technical limitation that is preventing the higher resolutions?

Im about to order an Acer 5360 720p 3D DLP projector for a whopping 600.00 witch features 2500 lumens! Why can't I buy a 1080p model
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post #2 of 27
2/24/10 at 8:37am
I believe Digital Projection has some. Most notably their Titan series.
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post #3 of 27
2/24/10 at 8:56am
Sim2 has two 3 dlp 1080p machines. Besides Digital Projection there also is Barco and Projection Designs. Your problem will be the costs because all these machines are plus $30K MSRP, some a lot more. There are a variety of reasons for the costs not the least of which is what Texas Instruments charges for the chips when they are licensed to be used in a 3 chip design. I missed the 3d part of the question. see the posts below. the digital projection machine will input 1080p 120 and feed it to the 3 Dlps at 60 alternating and syncing with shutterglasses. The machine is north of $60K.
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post #4 of 27
2/24/10 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Why can't I buy a 1080p model

Because 3D is still barely newborn at this point? Practically no sources yet. It will all come with time. I'd expect a bunch to be anounced at CEDIA this fall to go with the 3D BDs and BD players which are also coming out later this year.
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post #5 of 27
2/24/10 at 9:34am
I know that Texas Instruments suspended the developmente of DMD 1080p 120Hz but i don't know why.
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post #6 of 27
2/24/10 at 1:38pm


Uh, the LED machine ones run at something like 2880Hz (48x color wheel equivalent).
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post #7 of 27
2/24/10 at 1:44pm
To reproduce an image of 60Hz. Imagine what need for 120fps...
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post #8 of 27
2/24/10 at 2:17pm
You shouldn't need any more. For most people 5x or 6x color wheels are plenty to avoid RBE being an issue, LED machines run 8x that. The DMDs are plenty fast enough for about anything.

What maybe happened (assuming your info is correct), is that they stopped development of a colorwheel based 120Hz system. I'm guessing, based on the lack of faster wheels, that it's impractically difficult to sync a mechanical wheel faster than about 6x, and at that speed, with the sync and every thing, the system has a hard time hitting 8bits/color at just 60Hz. Thus it would be very difficult to maintain the color wheel speed sufficient to mitigate RBE, maintain color depth and keep everything in sync at 120Hz frame rate.

Maybe they saw LED illumination coming and decided it wasn't worth pursuing a low-cost colorwheel based 3D solution when 3-chip is acceptable for the corporate market and LED will be available for the home one?

Or maybe I'm way off base and CM will come in and give me a V8 smack
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post #9 of 27
2/24/10 at 2:25pm
...because 3D is 720p.
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post #10 of 27
2/24/10 at 2:33pm
@stranger89

Your talk it's plausible.

Maybe the retardation of 1080p 3D DLP it's only "marketing"...
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post #11 of 27
2/26/10 at 7:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

...because 3D is 720p.

Could you please elaborate? AFAIK, 3D itself can be any scan rate. 3D Blu-ray will be 1080p. Side by Side Cable/Satellite will be either 720p or 1080i. Effectively, Top/Botton Cable/Satellite will be either 360p or 540i.
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post #12 of 27
8/3/10 at 10:50am
Thread Starter 
We know Sony, Epson, JVC are all going to showcase their 1080p projectors at IFA and CEDIA. Any news if we will see some proper 1080p DLP 3D projectors at any of these shows? It seems as if TI has completely given up and it's strange as DLP is perfectly suited for 3D. With it's very fast refresh rate it produces 0 ghosting. The 3D on my Acer 5360 720p model has better 3D with less ghosting then any flat panel LCD and even better the the Panasonic VT25 series plasma. I wan't a high end home theatre quality 3D projector so I can get rid of the Acer. Right now I use my Acer for 3D and my Epson 6500 for 2D.
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post #13 of 27
8/3/10 at 12:05pm
The current generation of DLP 3D PJs are designed to support the Nvidia 3D player for PC games which outputs only in 720 frame sequential mode.
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post #14 of 27
8/3/10 at 10:48pm
Thread Starter 
Yes, but Nvidia supports 1080p 60hz per eye on their LCD monitors such as the Acer, and Samsung.

I'm just wondering why there have been no announcements or rumours that a 1080p 3D DLP projector even exists for Home theater use not just for Nvidia. Seems kind of strange. Thats why I wonder if it's even possible to create a 1080p 3D DLP projector. Maybe it's a limitation of the colour wheel or something.

BTW, it's an HDMI bandwith limitation that can't handle 1080p 60hz 3D. If they made a projector or TV with a Dual Link DVI port then we would be all good. 1080p 60hz no problem.
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post #15 of 27
8/4/10 at 6:59am
JOHNnDenver is outputting 120fps frame sequentiial 3D content using Nvidia 3D player to his 720p Projector from 3D Blr-Ray disks.
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post #16 of 27
8/4/10 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

I'm just wondering why there have been no announcements or rumours that a 1080p 3D DLP projector even exists for Home theater use not just for Nvidia.

There haven't been any announcements of 1080p 3D projectors this year at all, the commonly talked about ones (Panasonic, JVC, Sony) haven't made any announcements.

The same logic why we assume they will have 3D machines applies to DLP IMO. What I mean is I'd expect pretty much any projector (DLP or otherwise) announced at CEDIA or IFA to be 3D capable, or at least I'd expect all manufacturers making announcements to announce 1080p 3D machines.

Quote:


Seems kind of strange. Thats why I wonder if it's even possible to create a 1080p 3D DLP projector. Maybe it's a limitation of the colour wheel or something.

It's not, DPI has 3D capable 1080p+ DLP machines, including single chip ones:
http://www.digitalprojection.com/Bro...1/Default.aspx

Quote:


BTW, it's an HDMI bandwith limitation that can't handle 1080p 60hz 3D. If they made a projector or TV with a Dual Link DVI port then we would be all good. 1080p 60hz no problem.

There's no point though, as far as video goes, there are no 1080p60 sources, none. Only 1080p60 sources are game machines (or computers). HDMI 1.3 can do 1080p120. HDMI 1.3 upped bandwidth to 10.2Gbps, 1080p120 is only about half that.
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post #17 of 27
8/4/10 at 2:21pm
IMO, anyone expecting to see a $2K or $3K 3D 1080P DLP (or for that matter any light engine) 3D projector at CEDIA is going to be in for a shock - as in none.
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post #18 of 27
8/4/10 at 4:17pm
Oh, I think it's possible, there could be a W7000 (for example) with 3D capability, that's actually one of the more likely ones.
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post #19 of 27
8/4/10 at 7:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

IMO, anyone expecting to see a $2K or $3K 3D 1080P DLP (or for that matter any light engine) 3D projector at CEDIA is going to be in for a shock - as in none.

I'll pay $6,000 for a 1080p DLP ASG 3D projector. It needs to support HDMI 1.4 and have a dual-link DVI port for 3D Vision.
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post #20 of 27
8/4/10 at 8:40pm
Thread Starter 
Stranger, nice link proving that single chip 3D DLPs do exist. As for the Sony and JVC, both have been seen in Europe, so while not official announced they exist and will be out this year. I haven't heard a peep from Optoma, Benq, Infocus, or any other big DLP brand. You would think someone would have leaked or seen something if they are going to launch this year.

Yes 1080p 60hz is a huge deal for me as my primary use will be PC games ala Nvidia 3D vision.

I can only pray that Nvidia is trying to get at least a few manufactures to add an "outdated" Dual link DVI port that will alow 1080p 60hz. Heres hoping that the DLP camp has been really good at keeping secrets this year.

I still can't believe how perfect the 3D is on my 700.00 Acer projector. DLP was designed for 3D.
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post #21 of 27
8/5/10 at 7:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter0328 View Post

I'll pay $6,000 for a 1080p DLP ASG 3D projector. It needs to support HDMI 1.4 and have a dual-link DVI port for 3D Vision.

AFAIK there will be PJ's late this fall in about the price category you mention that will support the HDMI 1.4a 3D formats.
Also Nvidia 3D PlayTV should be abailable by then so you won't need to use the basic 3D Play any more.
Also JHONnDENVER has is now using 3D Play and is sending 720p content at 120fps to his DLP 720p PJ which is using the X102 DLP-link glases and reports excellent results.
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post #22 of 27
8/5/10 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

AFAIK there will be PJ's late this fall in about the price category you mention that will support the HDMI 1.4a 3D formats.
Also Nvidia 3D PlayTV should be abailable by then so you won't need to use the basic 3D Play any more.
Also JHONnDENVER has is now using 3D Play and is sending 720p content at 120fps to his DLP 720p PJ which is using the X102 DLP-link glases and reports excellent results.

I think you might be confused or have incorrect information.

John's projector is a 3D Vision 720p via pageflipping. He has the nVidia emitter plugged into the comp but is simply using DLP Link glasses.

3DTV Play is made to support HDMI 1.4 3D formats (meaning max of framepacked 1080p at 24Hz per eye). It does not allow for 1080p 3D gaming at 60Hz per eye.

The only way to get full 1080p 3D Vision gaming is for the projectors to support HDMI 1.4 along with Dual-Link DVI and 3D Vision certification.
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post #23 of 27
8/6/10 at 9:49am
Correct to the above....

I am using Nvidia's 120hz, sequential system...

Power DVD 10 Mark II and Total Media Theater with the 3D plug in, enable the 3D Bluray 1080p/24 to be output at 720p/ 120hz (60 frames per eye per second) to be sent to my display via the 3D Vision setup.

The video card allows me to send 720p / 120hz as my windows desktop resolution.
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post #24 of 27
8/11/10 at 7:18am
OK, conan48, I PM'd you last week. I need a responce please.

Wolfie
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post #25 of 27
8/11/10 at 1:11pm
5.4 million 3D-capable front projectors will ship in 2014

Quote:


Pacific Media Associates is a company that tracks the front projector display market, and they have recently released their latest projections. They expect that 5.4 million 3D-capable front projectors will ship in 2014, which is roughly five times as many as are expected to ship this year. While some analysts see the education market as the focal point for these displays, Dr. William Coggshall of Pacific Media Associates sees it differently. With education budgets under severe constraints these days, he sees the consumer market as the source for much of the growth. From gaming to home theater, 3D-capable projectors may be able to compete dollar-for-dollar with large flat panel solutions. He also expects that many of these projectors will not be used for 3D content initially, but as the available content and distribution sources increase, more and more consumers will take advantage of the feature.

With all the emphasis given to flat panel displays, it’s easy to forget about front projection systems. They are not as convenient, as you need to manage light more effectively, but the traditional “home theater” is not found in just the luxury homes that has been their traditional market. As consumers look to get larger and larger images, the front projectors may be able to offer affordable solutions

http://www.today3d.com/
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post #26 of 27
2/20/11 at 6:10pm
If 1080p is not on the horizon, is there any word on a 720p 3D DLP projector with a color wheel faster than 3x to help mitigate the RBE?
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post #27 of 27
2/20/11 at 6:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by justlnluck View Post
If 1080p is not on the horizon, is there any word on a 720p 3D DLP projector with a color wheel faster than 3x to help mitigate the RBE?
Sharp has recently started selling a 1080p DLP 3D projector (model XV-Z17000) and other manufacturers can be expected to introduce models during in 2011.
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