Great news about Schifter's bail and him not being out of jail
Originally Posted by KyaDawn
Please read the below quote.
So obviously your whole paragraph has been debunked.
Actually, no, that's one poster, who are the other ones? Besides, I'll restate my observation that when people donate money for charities, and someone steals that money, he has stolen charity money, hence stole from charities. The theft of charity money is no different under the law than the theft from any other organization or property. You can't be charged with "stealing charity money". You're charged with theft or whatever the legal term is.
Arguing that the charity raffles were under false pretense and so Schifter didn't steal from charities or charity money is imho pushing it. Funds were donated for charity
, not for Schifter, the fact that Schifter never intended to give that money to charity doesn't change the fact money was donated for charity
and was never actually donated because someone decided to keep it for himself. Say whatever you like, that money belonged to the charities people thought they were donated to...
They did mention: "Charitable fraud" though... Anyhow, we're trying to split hairs. Did he actually steal from
charities? (As in, burglarized a charity) No. Nobody meant it that way. But he did keep money donated for those charities for himself...  Question then if Schifter didn't steal from charities, as you so say (forget the meaningless word games). Something like 150,000$ was defrauded from 700 people, who should the recovered money go to? To the charities, or should it be returned to those who had donated the money? Because it seemed many thought it should go to the charities, since that money was actually charity donations... (Hence, if to the charities, then that money was stolen from the charities...)
Originally Posted by David Haddad
Your removed the critical last part of floridapoolboy's sentence, and then mischaracterized everything he said in attempt to paint him as an apologist.
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy
The unraveling of AV123 is really a microcosm of the nationwide collapse that we've all been dealing with these last few years. In any such scenario there will be those individuals who were playing fast and loose and got caught when the house of cards came crashing down. MLS is, unfortunately, no different than the other investment and real estate characters whose unethical and illegal way of doing business became apparent once the money dried up.
I don't mean to pre-judge the man, but if the indictments are borne out in trial then he will deserve whatever punishment the court decides is appropriate. I have no ax to grind, I'm a former customer and supporter of AV123. The only way to deal with this is for former friends and business associates to publicly distance themselves from MLS, as he is now toxic. Any support from old time friends would need to be kept private, there is no way that you can sugar coat what has been alleged. Let the system do it's job, and the chips fall. I'm sorry to see this happen, but if he is guilty, then I really have no sympathy.
I don't know, to me it does does seem like he's saying like there's a parallel to the US economical context and the fact that he stole charity money
, ran illegal raffles, etc... There's not. What common ground is there with Schifter who's hosted illegal raffles for charities and who's proceeds he's kept for himself, and investors and real estate agents? Were investors and real estate agents also caught defrauding people with illegal charity raffles?
asked him what he was sorry about... I don't think this question has been answered yet. He's sorry about what? The 4 sentences before are about Schifter's friends and family, his business partners, about how he himself was his customer and his supporter, that support to Schifter should be kept private, and then he says that he's sorry. Well he's sorry about what exactly? As I said, the US housing bubble had nothing to do with Schifter's scams... I simply asked him what he was sorry about, because as I said, "given the tone of your post, you sound a little like you're sorry that he's being brought to justice."
I think what is happening here is that the person in question is not here for people to vent their rage at. So now some have to misdirect their rage at some others who actually are here, even if said others had absolutely nothing to do with these alleged scams. And FWIW, I don't know a single one of the participants, I'm just an outside observer reading this thread and shaking my head at some of what I see going on.
Maybe, but as was said, there was many supporters who actually facilitated and made possible this scam. And while some were trying to inform others about the antics of this man and his company, there were many supporters who did exactly the opposite and outright defended, denied everything and actually attacked any who did not also support av321.gone and Schifter. Calling them liars, having agendas, vendettas, etc... That's been going on for years. There were threads four years about about Schifter, his company, and his supporters, followers, fanboys, whatever you want to call them... Surely they were not about this indictement, but that cult-like following he managed to assemble was always part of the problem...
And even after Schifter screwed people with the non existing betas, the prepayments, the defective crap and I know I'm forgetting a ton of their issues, there was a new wave of those cult like followers ready to take the place of the old supporters who had been burned by Schifter... One guy could never have pulled this off on his own, his 'community' made it possible. And even after all the issues, even after the charity money fraud was exposed, many still supported Schifter. That was a huge problem. Many still support him today, and are sorry for what this poor Schifter is going through... This idolization and blind faith, naivety as I call it, is what allowed Schifter to blindside all these people, and they've kept the smoke screen going for a long time...
Originally Posted by craigsub
Wow, personal attacks & failure to rebuke anything or saying anything relevant.
Mark Schifter was a master in this (and I mean this sarcastically), I think your failure to rebuke anything proves that you are unable to do so because the points made were perfectly valid. I'm sure Schifter will react somewhat similarly to these accusations the way you just reacted, the way Schifter has been acted all these months.
For fun, a post by Schifter, ironically addressing me about some of their issues. (In this case, someone waiting 7+months for an X-plosiv, which never saw the light of day I believe)
This is NOTHING NEW from that person... He has been around long enough to see us deliver on EVERY napkin sketch and great product idea we have shared... He is a hater through and through - and he proves it each time he posts about my products or my company...
One thing is clear - he does not like me - or my products -
No news flash here... same BS... new day...
He is a magnificent creator of anti-hype... I asked to meet him and show a product or two to him when I was heading for Canada... ask me if he could care enough to find out if we were full of hype or whatever else he thinks we are full of...
Like I said - no new news here... just the same hate-stuff...
Bingo and double BINGO... he only forgot his signature... sticking out his tongue tongue a few times...
In any event... we have been delivering products (some late) for a long time now - and we will continue to build and deliver fine products that are a great value in all respects... Our history is a good one - and people know that their money is well spent on our products - like many in this industry...
Funny how easy it is to hate when the Internet is involved... It's easy to spread mis or dis information too... No one can be in all places at once... we know all too well that our kind of success breeds (or even inbreeds) people that like to sling mud... No new news there either...
Enjoy your holiday... and sorry to piggy back your message like this...
All the best...
Similarities anyone? No wonder Craig you two were buddies... You two sound soo similar.
And btw, of course, many av321.gone proponents agreed that this was a smear campaign on my part and the part of others and attacked the credibility of posters instead of addressing arguments.
That was the tactic of Schifter, and it pretty much well worked, because there was always a bunch of his cronies willing to also attack the credibility of anyone who ever said anything which could be construed as negative against Schifter or av321.gone... sh!t-pile someone as you could say... That was always the tactic of choice... Craig Chase all too often leading the line... And this defense is still the defense of choice for Craig Chase it seems... "the more things change, the more they stay the same"...
It's sad how some people are so easily played... And that was a HUGE part of the Schifter saga. Sure, you can call everyone besides Schifter helpless victims, but imho, as I said, I believe many facilitated and even made his scams possible. Maybe they're still helpless victims, they've definitely been used, yet many very voluntarily joined his ranks and opposed anyone who would oppose him. Does that really make them helpless victims?